Genius Bar doesn't hire retired Apple engineer, fires up age discrimination debate

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 112
    Your position, unpopular or not, is also illegal in the U.S.
    Utter fucking bullshit.
    bestkeptsecret
  • Reply 22 of 112
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 8,425member
    Sick liberals practice diversity, and certain people need not apply.

    Qualifications and experience are trumped by other less important factors now.

    Diversity is not really diverse at all, it's a liberal code word so that they can freely practice their discrimination.


    macseekertallest skilharry wildnetmageMogar
  • Reply 23 of 112
    They take one questionable snap-shot and turn it into an age-discrimination issue. BS! In Vegas where we have at least 6 Apple stores (most of which I've visited at one time or another),
    Um, I count 4 Apple stores in Las Vegas. Where are the other 2+?
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 24 of 112
    It might be worth pointing out to the defenders in this thread that that the technology they are being so cocky about was invented, engineered, and created by people that far exceed the age of 19 - if it weren't for the generation you seem so intent on disparaging there would be no starting point for your precious expertise in the first place, it didn't come about immaculately or already stored in your brains when you were born. Anyone that thinks ageism isn't a reality in american society is delusional. Granted, this isn't a new attitude for younger people to have, it's just that in the past those under thirty were not some of the wealthiest members of society, and society itself did not collectively put wealth on a pedestal above all else. I suppose we can take comfort in the fact that all of them will also be 50 one day, and that through their own behavior and attitudes they will have taught the subsequent generation that they too are useless and disposable.
    baconstangbonobobargonautronnspliff monkeystevehanantksundaramjeffharrisewtheckmanloquitur
  • Reply 26 of 112
    TurboPGT said:
    The logical fallacy is that "years" = "qualification" in a lot of these age discrimination cases. When they claim they were passed over for someone less qualified, they often cite "year of experience" and assume that must somehow make them more qualified.

    Maybe they gave a worse interview than the younger alternative?

    Or maybe the company just wants to hire people who are looking to WORK and not someone looking for a paycheck to coast on til retirement.

    Private companies need to be left the hell alone to do as they please. Why anyone would want to start a business in the US anymore is beyond me. Just not worth it. 
    You seem to be a classic case age (or lack thereof) related stupidity. The assumptions and ignorance rampant in your reply would disqualify you from just about any position requiring supervisory skills and the ability to manage and motivate others.
    baconstangronnjeffharrisnetmage
  • Reply 27 of 112
    It's quite possible and reasonable Scheinberg was deemed over qualified for the position. That aside, it seems quite possibly there is a pattern of age discrimination in many tech companies. This issue comes up a bit too often to be dismissed as nonsense and simply a product of sleaze bag lawyers looking to file suits and generate revenue.
    baconstangasdasdjeffharrisnetmage
  • Reply 28 of 112
    If the issue is simply one of age discrimination in the Valley, I think for sure it exists. I have personally witnessed the head of the department committing this crime. But, I would say it's a problem that's not exclusive to Silicon Valley. 

    As for this guy wanting a Genius Bar gig -- well, that's just silly. I would not have hired him either. Overqualified, and would most likely not be happy in the role long-term. Managers have turnover to worry about too.
    asdasd
  • Reply 29 of 112
    1st1st Posts: 310member
    not hired may have many reasons.  may be your direct team didn't think you are right fit (might looking for a specific staff that may cover specific group customers, for example), the high up might feel some kind of imtimidated by your experience - quite often to face when you have rather strong resume.  someone interview you might think you are lack of long term  commitment, just use the position as a "parking lot", or they don't believe you would take a x% pay cut job and lower your status (more than 50% for example), etc. etc. not mention someone may think you are on the high horse...facing all of the above one way or the other in the past, even I am not retired yet...fair or not, that's reality and life... 
  • Reply 30 of 112
    ...while there may be smarter, is there also wiser...?
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 31 of 112
    I am not sure this "discrimination"applies to all countries. I bought my iPhone 5s from Sydney Apple store and there was an old guy. He was very lovely, talkative and extremely knowledgable. 
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 32 of 112

    "Hi, I used to be a highly paid engineer at Apple and now I want to work at your store as a Genius making close to minimum wage."

    Anyone see something wrong with that picture?
    Why not. An ex colleague at my work place decided after a nervous breakdown to work at a community centre. He went from (in usd) 400k to 20k per annum. Sometimes people want out of the rat race but still want to be active in something they love.
    So true. I spoke to a cab driver who had graduated from Sorbonne, France. It's like Harvard in US.
    baconstang
  • Reply 33 of 112
    bwikbwik Posts: 562member
    Take a look at Apples new Duet(™) extended video advertisement.

    Multicolored, yet lonely looking models people between the ages of 22 and 26 are shown doing a very narrow range of artistic activities with their computers all over the world.  The high income, twentysomething, stylish ghettoization of Apple use cases was disturbing to see.  No one appeared to have a family.  There WAS a visibly wrinkly but incredbly stylish older man was shown halfway through the ad, apparently still to comprehend basic tasks.  But this was clearly a (recent) modification to the Apple Look we have all known for the past 15 or so years.

    i think Apple has work to do.  Unattractive, unpretentious people and low income people do use Apple products.  People without a college education:  not everyone is a high income, fashionable cultural artisan in a major city.

    Age is a basic EEOC sanity check vis a vis illegal extremes in corporate culture.  I applaud them for looking into it.
    ktappejasenj1
  • Reply 34 of 112
    asdasd said:
    In Scheinberg's case it might well have been over qualification for the store. I'm sure he could walk into another job in Apple.  (He subsequently became a CTO at a game company). 
    Hard to believe the there are morons on this site that would indicate a "like" for this comment. If the customer is the most important in the eyes of Apple, providing the best possible customer service at the genius bar should be the priority. And most certainly there would be no such thing as an "overly qualified" candidate. The comment is beyond stupid, and arrogant.  This candidate would also most likely be a role model and source of knowledge and training for the rest of the genius team at the store. But maybe you're too young and smart to figure that out on your own.
    ronnjeffharrisjasenj1Mogar
  • Reply 35 of 112
    AdBrit said:
    A cursory look into any Apple Store impresses with youthful appearance. Once one figures out who the staff is, one realizes that not all young people work as Baristas. You don't have to be a tech genius to work in an Apple Store. Certainly you have to know the products and that is where the youth part is useful. Young minds are malleable and imprinting the Apple culture on these developing minds is more successful then on an experienced and critical one. I'm sure that some of the people behind the Genius Bar have a tech background but it's basically a customer refund service. Knowing how to read and interpret a service contract is more important. The basic theme of an Apple Store is to keep it bland and sanitary so that the sparkling Apple screens will stand out.
    Wow - how ignorant can you possibly be? The genius bar is far more than a "customer refund service". If you want to comment here, go actually learn something about the company. And double wow - "Certainly you have to know the products and that is where the youth part is useful." So only youthful employees can possibly know the products? You, my friend, are a reflection of the ignorance and engrained bias the article is presenting.
    edited September 2016 ronnjeffharrisktappebaconstangnetmage
  • Reply 36 of 112
    As others have said, OSX migration and genius bar are fairly different jobs with different skills sets.  I'm 69 years old, managed IT, and have had engineers with deep technical skills that you would never want to meet a customer.
    baconstangSpamSandwichbrertech
  • Reply 37 of 112
    eriamjheriamjh Posts: 1,113member
    Gee. Young people says it's not age discrimination and older people say it is.  

    It is.  

    It always is.  It is also impossible to prove.  Which is why it continues.
    ronnmacseekerktappejeffharrisnetmagetomkarlMogar
  • Reply 38 of 112
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,492member
    "Hi, I used to be a highly paid engineer at Apple and now I want to work at your store as a Genius making close to minimum wage."

    Anyone see something wrong with that picture?
    He's retired, worked for Apple for ages, he probably doesn't need the money but wants to contribute, or maybe just to keep him busy and feel useful.  What's wrong with that?

    ronnnetroxdanhjeffharrisewtheckmanbaconstangnetmagejasenj1
  • Reply 39 of 112
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,492member
    As a software engineers for almost 30 years, I see age discrimination in my field constantly.  It's the norm and many times the shops are quite open about it.  Of course, they would never admit to it in any official capacity.  I have many friends in my field, most very well qualified in their field of technical expertise that simply could not find a job anywhere in the San Francisco bay area because they were 45+ years old.  They all eventually gave up, moved out of the area and took careers complete out of their trade.  

    It's really easy for the government to say age-discrimination is illegal but it's so wired in today's younger generation that the government could never really prove it.  Sure, a company may say they don't do it, but what's to stop that company's 20-something hiring manager to covertly pass-over the 50-year old engineer applicant and hire the 24-year old?

    I'm not even looking for a job now, or in the near future but even my friends at shops like Facebook and Google, amazed at my coding abilities and software-design intelligence have (privately) said my age - and only my age (I'm 48) - would most likely deny me a job there. It's true and it makes even my friends that work there really mad.

    There's the mentality that younger folks make better workers but I strongly disagree.  I think younger workers can devote most of their time to working at the company, whereas more older people want better balance between work/life/family that believe also contributes to a better, more rounded workforce.

    While I don't necessarily believe the companies themselves promote age discrimination, I certainly believe (and seen) them done on an individual-level.  It can never be proven per se unless someone files a lawsuit with a very slim chance of winning.  After which, of course, that person's name would forever live in the search-results and no company will ever hire said person for fear of being another recipient of a lawsuit.

    Age discrimination is here to stay, only to be whispered in private and in hipster bars.
    anantksundarammacseeker1stktappejeffharrisloquiturbaconstangstompyMogar
  • Reply 40 of 112
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,261member
    freerange said:
    asdasd said:
    In Scheinberg's case it might well have been over qualification for the store. I'm sure he could walk into another job in Apple.  (He subsequently became a CTO at a game company). 
    Hard to believe the there are morons on this site that would indicate a "like" for this comment. If the customer is the most important in the eyes of Apple, providing the best possible customer service at the genius bar should be the priority. And most certainly there would be no such thing as an "overly qualified" candidate. The comment is beyond stupid, and arrogant.  This candidate would also most likely be a role model and source of knowledge and training for the rest of the genius team at the store. But maybe you're too young and smart to figure that out on your own.
    If you read my other comments I oppose ageism. But over qualification is not the same thing as ageism. It's a manager thinking "this guy might be bored". Pretty obvious since I said he could walk into another (more demanding) job at Apple. 
    SpamSandwich
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