Bragi intros cheaper wireless Headphone earbuds days before 'iPhone 7' launch

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 28
    maestro64maestro64 Posts: 4,454member

    Here is my thought on these, and this is based on some experience using Bluetooth for audio, especially audio which needs to be sync with video, or talking heads. I am not sure if the new standards address these issues. I have been using a Bluetooth in the ear headset for a couple of years now, I mostly use it at the gym to listen to music. They work fine for the purpose, however the sound quality is not always the greatest and it depends on the songs I have notice. Bluetooth headphone tend not to deal well with older type rock songs not really sure why, but listening through small ear pieces are not the same as big speakers.

    However, my biggest issue with Bluetooth headphone is watching videos, too many time the audio is delayed from the video, some time it is slightly delay and sometime is very noticeable. This is a headphone with a single receiver and drives both left and right from the single receiver. These devices from Bragi are not connected, so they means two separate wireless transition to each earpiece. I do not believe each earpiece is pairs to the phone separately, most likely one is paired, receives left and right and then re-encodes and retransmitted to the other earpiece. I believe this adds another delay which you maybe able to hear and notice, especially with videos. Definitely something to think about.

    I also played Bluetooth audio and ATV. steams the video to an ATV and tried listening to the audio on a Bluetooth headset, it was not worth the effort the audio was completely out of sync, extremely delayed.

  • Reply 22 of 28

    Bragi is promising 6 hours of battery life for audio playback -- twice the amount on the Dash -- and up to 250 hours of standby time.

    So when I fly from say LAX to London they will run out of battery after 60% of the flight. Useless.
    Any company making stuff like this need to think about long haul flights and how their bits of kit can be used on them.
    10-12 hour flights are not exactly new. The LAX-LHR route has been flown non-stop since around the time of the first 747 came into service.
    LAX-Auckland is another long one.
    I have some wired noise cancelling headphones (over the ear) which I don't see being replaced for a good few years headphone socket or no headphone socket in phones.
    no, hardware makers don't have to make their products work for all use cases. that would be insane. instead they have their target use cases and build for that -- long haul flights may not be among them, and you can buy something else that satisfies your use case. 

    these are obviously ultraportable. that's like you complaining about the cargo space in a sports car. 

    i have BT headphones that get 10 hours and they're great for using in the gym, I charge once a week. that's a passing use case for my job to be done. 

    edited September 2016
  • Reply 23 of 28
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,378member
    Soli said:

    Seriously people, these comments trying to argue that, "Bluetooth headphones are a joke because I can't I take a 13 hour International flight without having to charge my headphones for a couple minutes at some point means that they are completely useful for the entire flight" are absolutely foolish reasons to avoid natural and expected advancements in technology.
    As the Sony BT devices give at least 10 hours service then I think your argument falls flat on its face. These devices can't do 10 hours so why would I ever consider buying them eh?
    Besides, having to stop watching a movie in mid stream to charge the BT phones is a faff. Not all airlines provide USB (or anything else) charging points in Cattle Class (or as the americans say, Coach).
    It is all about ease of use. Something that many software designers have forgotten about.
    Making the device work for the duration of a 12 hr flight would be a great selling point. 6 hours is a cop out IMHO.
    I fly at least 100,000 miles a year and not having to charge stuff at the airport or on the plane is a big plus to me. YMMV.

    How many of Apple's 500 million plus installed iPhone customer base fly 100,000 miles a year? How many even regularly fly 12 hour flights?

    6 hours is amazing for most people. For the average flyer, you keep your headphones in the charging box until you get on the plane, and then they're at a full charge for the flight. Since the Bragi take 2-hours to achieve a full 6-hour charge, you're not likely going to charge them up mid-flight, much less when you go to the bathroom. However, on a 12 hour flight, unless you're listening to music for the entire time, and never sleeping, or reading a book, or using the In-flight entertainment system, or working, etc. then you might actually have a spare hour or two to charge them for the remainder of your flight.

    That said, why are you using these headphones as a straw man to bash the likely removal of the 3.5mm Jack? You already have a pair of headphones you can use with a simple $20 adapter, why spend $300 on a set of BT earbuds that don't serve your needs? JBL Makes a pair of BT headphones that have a 20 hour battery life if you really want to spend some money on new headphones. Not only that, but those headphones have a wired option with which you can plug in your headphones whenever the run out of a charge. But the $20 adapter seems like a no brainier to me. You fly 100,000 miles a year, which means you likely have a bag full of whatever you need anywhere in the world. So having an adapter or two in that kit surely won't be a problem for you, and likely solve your problem without the expense and frustrations of dealing with the limitations of using a specific product, of the many there will be To chose from that will better suit your needs?
    edited September 2016 nolamacguy
  • Reply 24 of 28
    Soli said:
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    ireland said:
    6 hours? These things are a few years away form mainstream. Also, having them separated like that might not be the most practical design. Myself I prefer wired headphones. Not having to ever charge is a huge deal to me. And is paying a few bucks as opposed to many hundreds.
    BT headphones already account for over 15% of unit sales and over 50% of headphone revenue
    BT headphones still present several problems. The first is they have to be charged and most do not want to think about charging their headphones. The next is overall sound quality. BT headphones are low-impedance, (under 50 ohm) in most cases. It's simple small drivers 6-8mm with low-impedance will never sound as good as larger 50mm drivers with high-impedance. Better headphones simply can't be pushed or driven wirelessly. Larger drivers can to some degree but they will have to be low-impedance. 

    I also love how people use the word "legacy" about a port that is still be far the standard. Another factor is cost. Someone can buy a fairly nice pair of wired in-ear headphones for the same prices as a set of garbage skullcandy wireless headphones. BT has its place but I don't think in three years there is going much of a change in BT marketshare. People will simply use the adapter. 

    Like I have said before this isn't the same as removing an optical drive where the advantages were clear. Making the iPhone thinner is useless as long as most people still have to put a case on it which negates 1-2mm reduction in phone thickness. 
    1) What problem does BT 5.0 have that would affect the user's ability to listen to music? What about 4.2?

    2) How is legacy not the perfect word to describe the 3.5mm jack? Here's the definition: "denoting software or hardware that has been superseded but is difficult to replace because of its wide use."

    3) What's wrong with using a simple adapter you keep connected to your headphones, or buying an adapter that lets you use your headphones in the car (which is silly) and also charge whilst charging, or use the Smart Connector to charge while still using the Lightning port for your headphones without buying any additional items?

    4) With the ODD there was no included dongle that let you use your CD and DVDs. You had to buy an external, ODD drive for this to work. This was a much larger "shock" to people because many were still using this legacy method for reading and writing data and the only solution for them was to buy an external ODD if they wanting to keep all their optical media. With headphones, we're talking about 1 or 2 pairs, for nearly all users, an included adapter so they can still use their old headphones, and at a time when over 15% of headphones are already being sold as wireless and accounting for more than half the revenue. This is not a trend that will be ending.

    5) Don't start making this solely about making the device thin. It's about making the device better. Without that very long and low-data port interface having to be inserted into every device and with a good selection of the top or bottom used for the port opening, Apple saves significant internal space for other components. if they could have don't his last year we could have gotten 3D Touch without the battery having to shrink my 10%.
    4. We have yet to see how the device is actually going to be made better. Right now we have no clue if the trade off will be worth removing the 3.5mm jack. However it's safe bet because Apple is always trying to make their devices thinner that is at least part of the reason, water resistant could also be a reason which would be at least in my opinion worth the change. 
    There's more than enough evidence to show how Lightning connecters headphones, a Smart Connector, and a Lightning to 3.5mm jack or Lighting to 3.5mm jack+Lightning pass-thru adapters will work with the rumoured iPhone 7 as all this technology has already been on the market for an extended amount of time. To claim it's impossible to know anything and to assume that it will be a market failure is simply an inability to see what should be obvious or a purposeful choice to ignore the facts.
    At what point did I ever say this would be a market failure? You're greatly over exaggerating my comments on this subject. I have several BT headphones that I use all the time.  From Beats Studio, PowerBeats, Sol Republic Air Tracks , Vmoda Crossfade wireless and LG Tones for phone calls. I'm also on the yearly Apple iPhone trade program so I will be getting an iPhone 7 no matter what is offers or doesn't offer. 

    Ignoring the facts is when people make assumptions that BT is going to be the standard in a few years simply because Apple is removing a 3.5mm jack and people won't even remember what it's like to use corded headphones. Ignoring the fact that hundreds of millions of people own good quality corded headphones and they simply aren't going to dump them because Apple wants them to move to BT. What is a fact is Apple often removes ports only to force users to carry around a dongle which is pathetic. 

     Apple has been able to get away with that shit because of the Apple cool factor, however as iPhone growth slows or at some point even stops simply trying to push the consumer in a direction is going to end. The iPhone SE has already proven that fact. 

    Mac sales have declined because Apple doesn't feel the need to actually update their Mac products anymore, then puts out a Macbook that is underpowered, too small and only has one USB Type C port. Which of course requires a dongle if you actually want to connect anything to it. 

    Macbook Pro 476 days since the last update. Macbook Air 547 days since the last update. Mac Mini 691 days since the last update. Mac Pro 992 days since the last update. Totally pathetic. 
  • Reply 25 of 28
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,378member
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    ireland said:
    6 hours? These things are a few years away form mainstream. Also, having them separated like that might not be the most practical design. Myself I prefer wired headphones. Not having to ever charge is a huge deal to me. And is paying a few bucks as opposed to many hundreds.
    BT headphones already account for over 15% of unit sales and over 50% of headphone revenue
    BT headphones still present several problems. The first is they have to be charged and most do not want to think about charging their headphones. The next is overall sound quality. BT headphones are low-impedance, (under 50 ohm) in most cases. It's simple small drivers 6-8mm with low-impedance will never sound as good as larger 50mm drivers with high-impedance. Better headphones simply can't be pushed or driven wirelessly. Larger drivers can to some degree but they will have to be low-impedance. 

    I also love how people use the word "legacy" about a port that is still be far the standard. Another factor is cost. Someone can buy a fairly nice pair of wired in-ear headphones for the same prices as a set of garbage skullcandy wireless headphones. BT has its place but I don't think in three years there is going much of a change in BT marketshare. People will simply use the adapter. 

    Like I have said before this isn't the same as removing an optical drive where the advantages were clear. Making the iPhone thinner is useless as long as most people still have to put a case on it which negates 1-2mm reduction in phone thickness. 
    1) What problem does BT 5.0 have that would affect the user's ability to listen to music? What about 4.2?

    2) How is legacy not the perfect word to describe the 3.5mm jack? Here's the definition: "denoting software or hardware that has been superseded but is difficult to replace because of its wide use."

    3) What's wrong with using a simple adapter you keep connected to your headphones, or buying an adapter that lets you use your headphones in the car (which is silly) and also charge whilst charging, or use the Smart Connector to charge while still using the Lightning port for your headphones without buying any additional items?

    4) With the ODD there was no included dongle that let you use your CD and DVDs. You had to buy an external, ODD drive for this to work. This was a much larger "shock" to people because many were still using this legacy method for reading and writing data and the only solution for them was to buy an external ODD if they wanting to keep all their optical media. With headphones, we're talking about 1 or 2 pairs, for nearly all users, an included adapter so they can still use their old headphones, and at a time when over 15% of headphones are already being sold as wireless and accounting for more than half the revenue. This is not a trend that will be ending.

    5) Don't start making this solely about making the device thin. It's about making the device better. Without that very long and low-data port interface having to be inserted into every device and with a good selection of the top or bottom used for the port opening, Apple saves significant internal space for other components. if they could have don't his last year we could have gotten 3D Touch without the battery having to shrink my 10%.
    4. We have yet to see how the device is actually going to be made better. Right now we have no clue if the trade off will be worth removing the 3.5mm jack. However it's safe bet because Apple is always trying to make their devices thinner that is at least part of the reason, water resistant could also be a reason which would be at least in my opinion worth the change. 
    There's more than enough evidence to show how Lightning connecters headphones, a Smart Connector, and a Lightning to 3.5mm jack or Lighting to 3.5mm jack+Lightning pass-thru adapters will work with the rumoured iPhone 7 as all this technology has already been on the market for an extended amount of time. To claim it's impossible to know anything and to assume that it will be a market failure is simply an inability to see what should be obvious or a purposeful choice to ignore the facts.
    At what point did I ever say this would be a market failure? You're greatly over exaggerating my comments on this subject. I have several BT headphones that I use all the time.  From Beats Studio, PowerBeats, Sol Republic Air Tracks , Vmoda Crossfade wireless and LG Tones for phone calls. I'm also on the yearly Apple iPhone trade program so I will be getting an iPhone 7 no matter what is offers or doesn't offer. 

    Ignoring the facts is when people make assumptions that BT is going to be the standard in a few years simply because Apple is removing a 3.5mm jack and people won't even remember what it's like to use corded headphones. Ignoring the fact that hundreds of millions of people own good quality corded headphones and they simply aren't going to dump them because Apple wants them to move to BT. What is a fact is Apple often removes ports only to force users to carry around a dongle which is pathetic. 

     Apple has been able to get away with that shit because of the Apple cool factor, however as iPhone growth slows or at some point even stops simply trying to push the consumer in a direction is going to end. The iPhone SE has already proven that fact. 

    Mac sales have declined because Apple doesn't feel the need to actually update their Mac products anymore, then puts out a Macbook that is underpowered, too small and only has one USB Type C port. Which of course requires a dongle if you actually want to connect anything to it. 

    Macbook Pro 476 days since the last update. Macbook Air 547 days since the last update. Mac Mini 691 days since the last update. Mac Pro 992 days since the last update. Totally pathetic. 
    Nobody is forcing you to do anything. You can either chose to buy an adapter, or you can upgrade to Apple's new "standard". Or you can not buy the brand new flagship and buy a 6s instead. Or you can leave Apple over it. This isn't a difficult problem.
  • Reply 26 of 28
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,573member
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    ireland said:
    6 hours? These things are a few years away form mainstream. Also, having them separated like that might not be the most practical design. Myself I prefer wired headphones. Not having to ever charge is a huge deal to me. And is paying a few bucks as opposed to many hundreds.
    BT headphones already account for over 15% of unit sales and over 50% of headphone revenue
    BT headphones still present several problems. The first is they have to be charged and most do not want to think about charging their headphones. The next is overall sound quality. BT headphones are low-impedance, (under 50 ohm) in most cases. It's simple small drivers 6-8mm with low-impedance will never sound as good as larger 50mm drivers with high-impedance. Better headphones simply can't be pushed or driven wirelessly. Larger drivers can to some degree but they will have to be low-impedance. 

    I also love how people use the word "legacy" about a port that is still be far the standard. Another factor is cost. Someone can buy a fairly nice pair of wired in-ear headphones for the same prices as a set of garbage skullcandy wireless headphones. BT has its place but I don't think in three years there is going much of a change in BT marketshare. People will simply use the adapter. 

    Like I have said before this isn't the same as removing an optical drive where the advantages were clear. Making the iPhone thinner is useless as long as most people still have to put a case on it which negates 1-2mm reduction in phone thickness. 
    1) What problem does BT 5.0 have that would affect the user's ability to listen to music? What about 4.2?

    2) How is legacy not the perfect word to describe the 3.5mm jack? Here's the definition: "denoting software or hardware that has been superseded but is difficult to replace because of its wide use."

    3) What's wrong with using a simple adapter you keep connected to your headphones, or buying an adapter that lets you use your headphones in the car (which is silly) and also charge whilst charging, or use the Smart Connector to charge while still using the Lightning port for your headphones without buying any additional items?

    4) With the ODD there was no included dongle that let you use your CD and DVDs. You had to buy an external, ODD drive for this to work. This was a much larger "shock" to people because many were still using this legacy method for reading and writing data and the only solution for them was to buy an external ODD if they wanting to keep all their optical media. With headphones, we're talking about 1 or 2 pairs, for nearly all users, an included adapter so they can still use their old headphones, and at a time when over 15% of headphones are already being sold as wireless and accounting for more than half the revenue. This is not a trend that will be ending.

    5) Don't start making this solely about making the device thin. It's about making the device better. Without that very long and low-data port interface having to be inserted into every device and with a good selection of the top or bottom used for the port opening, Apple saves significant internal space for other components. if they could have don't his last year we could have gotten 3D Touch without the battery having to shrink my 10%.
    4. We have yet to see how the device is actually going to be made better. Right now we have no clue if the trade off will be worth removing the 3.5mm jack. However it's safe bet because Apple is always trying to make their devices thinner that is at least part of the reason, water resistant could also be a reason which would be at least in my opinion worth the change. 
    There's more than enough evidence to show how Lightning connecters headphones, a Smart Connector, and a Lightning to 3.5mm jack or Lighting to 3.5mm jack+Lightning pass-thru adapters will work with the rumoured iPhone 7 as all this technology has already been on the market for an extended amount of time. To claim it's impossible to know anything and to assume that it will be a market failure is simply an inability to see what should be obvious or a purposeful choice to ignore the facts.
    Ignoring the facts is when people make assumptions that BT is going to be the standard in a few years simply because Apple is removing a 3.5mm jack and people won't even remember what it's like to use corded headphones.
    BLUETOOTH IS ALREADY A STANDARD, AND IN TERMS OF HEADPHONES IT ALREADY ACCOUNTS FOR MORE THAN 15% OF TOTAL UNIT SALES AND MORE THAN 50% OF TOTAL REVENUE SALES. APPLE REMOVING THE 3.5mm JACK ISN'T STARTING ANYTHING. IT WAS STARTED MANY YEARS AGO.
  • Reply 27 of 28
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    ireland said:
    6 hours? These things are a few years away form mainstream. Also, having them separated like that might not be the most practical design. Myself I prefer wired headphones. Not having to ever charge is a huge deal to me. And is paying a few bucks as opposed to many hundreds.
    BT headphones already account for over 15% of unit sales and over 50% of headphone revenue
    BT headphones still present several problems. The first is they have to be charged and most do not want to think about charging their headphones. The next is overall sound quality. BT headphones are low-impedance, (under 50 ohm) in most cases. It's simple small drivers 6-8mm with low-impedance will never sound as good as larger 50mm drivers with high-impedance. Better headphones simply can't be pushed or driven wirelessly. Larger drivers can to some degree but they will have to be low-impedance. 

    I also love how people use the word "legacy" about a port that is still be far the standard. Another factor is cost. Someone can buy a fairly nice pair of wired in-ear headphones for the same prices as a set of garbage skullcandy wireless headphones. BT has its place but I don't think in three years there is going much of a change in BT marketshare. People will simply use the adapter. 

    Like I have said before this isn't the same as removing an optical drive where the advantages were clear. Making the iPhone thinner is useless as long as most people still have to put a case on it which negates 1-2mm reduction in phone thickness. 
    1) What problem does BT 5.0 have that would affect the user's ability to listen to music? What about 4.2?

    2) How is legacy not the perfect word to describe the 3.5mm jack? Here's the definition: "denoting software or hardware that has been superseded but is difficult to replace because of its wide use."

    3) What's wrong with using a simple adapter you keep connected to your headphones, or buying an adapter that lets you use your headphones in the car (which is silly) and also charge whilst charging, or use the Smart Connector to charge while still using the Lightning port for your headphones without buying any additional items?

    4) With the ODD there was no included dongle that let you use your CD and DVDs. You had to buy an external, ODD drive for this to work. This was a much larger "shock" to people because many were still using this legacy method for reading and writing data and the only solution for them was to buy an external ODD if they wanting to keep all their optical media. With headphones, we're talking about 1 or 2 pairs, for nearly all users, an included adapter so they can still use their old headphones, and at a time when over 15% of headphones are already being sold as wireless and accounting for more than half the revenue. This is not a trend that will be ending.

    5) Don't start making this solely about making the device thin. It's about making the device better. Without that very long and low-data port interface having to be inserted into every device and with a good selection of the top or bottom used for the port opening, Apple saves significant internal space for other components. if they could have don't his last year we could have gotten 3D Touch without the battery having to shrink my 10%.
    4. We have yet to see how the device is actually going to be made better. Right now we have no clue if the trade off will be worth removing the 3.5mm jack. However it's safe bet because Apple is always trying to make their devices thinner that is at least part of the reason, water resistant could also be a reason which would be at least in my opinion worth the change. 
    There's more than enough evidence to show how Lightning connecters headphones, a Smart Connector, and a Lightning to 3.5mm jack or Lighting to 3.5mm jack+Lightning pass-thru adapters will work with the rumoured iPhone 7 as all this technology has already been on the market for an extended amount of time. To claim it's impossible to know anything and to assume that it will be a market failure is simply an inability to see what should be obvious or a purposeful choice to ignore the facts.
    At what point did I ever say this would be a market failure? You're greatly over exaggerating my comments on this subject. I have several BT headphones that I use all the time.  From Beats Studio, PowerBeats, Sol Republic Air Tracks , Vmoda Crossfade wireless and LG Tones for phone calls. I'm also on the yearly Apple iPhone trade program so I will be getting an iPhone 7 no matter what is offers or doesn't offer. 

    Ignoring the facts is when people make assumptions that BT is going to be the standard in a few years simply because Apple is removing a 3.5mm jack and people won't even remember what it's like to use corded headphones. Ignoring the fact that hundreds of millions of people own good quality corded headphones and they simply aren't going to dump them because Apple wants them to move to BT. What is a fact is Apple often removes ports only to force users to carry around a dongle which is pathetic. 

     Apple has been able to get away with that shit because of the Apple cool factor, however as iPhone growth slows or at some point even stops simply trying to push the consumer in a direction is going to end. The iPhone SE has already proven that fact. 

    Mac sales have declined because Apple doesn't feel the need to actually update their Mac products anymore, then puts out a Macbook that is underpowered, too small and only has one USB Type C port. Which of course requires a dongle if you actually want to connect anything to it. 

    Macbook Pro 476 days since the last update. Macbook Air 547 days since the last update. Mac Mini 691 days since the last update. Mac Pro 992 days since the last update. Totally pathetic. 
    you don't know that. I think Mac sales are slowing because PC sales are slowing because we don't need the latest & greatest so much anymore. my own desktop Mac is a 2011. 

    the rest of your post sounds like purposeless whining. the new MB is an ultraportable -- that's it's purpose. if you don't need a portless ultraportable, then you're looking at the wrong machine category. 
    edited September 2016
  • Reply 28 of 28
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    atlapple said:
    Soli said:
    ireland said:
    6 hours? These things are a few years away form mainstream. Also, having them separated like that might not be the most practical design. Myself I prefer wired headphones. Not having to ever charge is a huge deal to me. And is paying a few bucks as opposed to many hundreds.
    BT headphones already account for over 15% of unit sales and over 50% of headphone revenue
    BT headphones still present several problems. The first is they have to be charged and most do not want to think about charging their headphones. The next is overall sound quality. BT headphones are low-impedance, (under 50 ohm) in most cases. It's simple small drivers 6-8mm with low-impedance will never sound as good as larger 50mm drivers with high-impedance. Better headphones simply can't be pushed or driven wirelessly. Larger drivers can to some degree but they will have to be low-impedance. 

    I also love how people use the word "legacy" about a port that is still be far the standard. Another factor is cost. Someone can buy a fairly nice pair of wired in-ear headphones for the same prices as a set of garbage skullcandy wireless headphones. BT has its place but I don't think in three years there is going much of a change in BT marketshare. People will simply use the adapter. 

    Like I have said before this isn't the same as removing an optical drive where the advantages were clear. Making the iPhone thinner is useless as long as most people still have to put a case on it which negates 1-2mm reduction in phone thickness. 
    1) What problem does BT 5.0 have that would affect the user's ability to listen to music? What about 4.2?

    2) How is legacy not the perfect word to describe the 3.5mm jack? Here's the definition: "denoting software or hardware that has been superseded but is difficult to replace because of its wide use."

    3) What's wrong with using a simple adapter you keep connected to your headphones, or buying an adapter that lets you use your headphones in the car (which is silly) and also charge whilst charging, or use the Smart Connector to charge while still using the Lightning port for your headphones without buying any additional items?

    4) With the ODD there was no included dongle that let you use your CD and DVDs. You had to buy an external, ODD drive for this to work. This was a much larger "shock" to people because many were still using this legacy method for reading and writing data and the only solution for them was to buy an external ODD if they wanting to keep all their optical media. With headphones, we're talking about 1 or 2 pairs, for nearly all users, an included adapter so they can still use their old headphones, and at a time when over 15% of headphones are already being sold as wireless and accounting for more than half the revenue. This is not a trend that will be ending.

    5) Don't start making this solely about making the device thin. It's about making the device better. Without that very long and low-data port interface having to be inserted into every device and with a good selection of the top or bottom used for the port opening, Apple saves significant internal space for other components. if they could have don't his last year we could have gotten 3D Touch without the battery having to shrink my 10%.
    4. We have yet to see how the device is actually going to be made better. Right now we have no clue if the trade off will be worth removing the 3.5mm jack. However it's safe bet because Apple is always trying to make their devices thinner that is at least part of the reason, water resistant could also be a reason which would be at least in my opinion worth the change. 
    There's more than enough evidence to show how Lightning connecters headphones, a Smart Connector, and a Lightning to 3.5mm jack or Lighting to 3.5mm jack+Lightning pass-thru adapters will work with the rumoured iPhone 7 as all this technology has already been on the market for an extended amount of time. To claim it's impossible to know anything and to assume that it will be a market failure is simply an inability to see what should be obvious or a purposeful choice to ignore the facts.
    At what point did I ever say this would be a market failure? You're greatly over exaggerating my comments on this subject. I have several BT headphones that I use all the time.  From Beats Studio, PowerBeats, Sol Republic Air Tracks , Vmoda Crossfade wireless and LG Tones for phone calls. I'm also on the yearly Apple iPhone trade program so I will be getting an iPhone 7 no matter what is offers or doesn't offer. 

    Ignoring the facts is when people make assumptions that BT is going to be the standard in a few years simply because Apple is removing a 3.5mm jack and people won't even remember what it's like to use corded headphones. Ignoring the fact that hundreds of millions of people own good quality corded headphones and they simply aren't going to dump them because Apple wants them to move to BT. What is a fact is Apple often removes ports only to force users to carry around a dongle which is pathetic. 

     Apple has been able to get away with that shit because of the Apple cool factor, however as iPhone growth slows or at some point even stops simply trying to push the consumer in a direction is going to end. The iPhone SE has already proven that fact. 

    Mac sales have declined because Apple doesn't feel the need to actually update their Mac products anymore, then puts out a Macbook that is underpowered, too small and only has one USB Type C port. Which of course requires a dongle if you actually want to connect anything to it. 

    Macbook Pro 476 days since the last update. Macbook Air 547 days since the last update. Mac Mini 691 days since the last update. Mac Pro 992 days since the last update. Totally pathetic. 
    you don't know that. I think Mac sales are slowing because PC sales are slowing because we don't need the latest & greatest so much anymore. my own desktop Mac is a 2011. 

    the rest of your post sounds like purposeless whining. the new MB is an ultraportable -- that's it's purpose. if you don't need a portless ultraportable, then you're looking at the wrong machine category. 
    In the Top 5 PC sales increased for HP, Dell and ASUS. They decreased 2.3% for Lenovo and 8.3% for Apple. This was for 2Q16. It's not whining simply stating facts unlike you that defends everything Apple does. The problem is the only system Apple has actually updated is the Macbook. My stats are on the generous side, while Apple has updated CPU and GPU in those times the AIR and the Pro have not seen any major update in years. The Air still has a 1440x900 TN display which is way behind anything that Apple should have on the market. 


    There isn't any part of this that is even up for debate. Click the dislike button all you want doesn't change the facts. Besides unlike you I actually like when people dislike what I say then I at least know I'm not one of the sheep. 
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