I'm not so sure this event is going to introduce anything groundbreaking. An OLED keystrip is a nice advance, but groundbreaking? Not really. What else? This isn't going to be like the Mac introduction, or the iPhone, or iPad. It's will be several, I hope, upgraded machines, and maybe the discontinuation of another.
nice, but not groundbreaking. Groundbreaking would be an ARM MacBook. I don't see that happening this year.
what else ground breaking could they REALISTICALLY introduce now?
iOS desktop with Touch Pad + keyboard input A10X 256 GB flash $299
A competent Apple desktop computer for that price would be REVOLUTIONARY
Apple has and never will be in a race to the bottom. This is exactly what that does. iOS isn't that useful for a desktop environment. It doesn't support nearly as much as macOS.
This isn't a race to the bottom. Think of it as an iPad/iPhone accessory.
iOS is very useful for 95% of the population. Most use their desktop only to: email, web, social media, online banking, simply games, light word processing, media. iOS can easily do all of that.
If so, then put your iPad in landscape orientation on the desk with the optional keyboard, and voilà, you get an "iOS desktop".
The point is, you don't need a desktop machine to: "email, web, social media, online banking, simply games, light word processing, media". The iPad gives you all of that. If you want to attach a mouse to the iPad then you have to wait for a macOS tablet, because iOS is built for touch interaction, not mouse interaction. Force Touch can provide the missing mouse functionality, but under macOS, not under iOS.
"iOS is built for touch interaction"
tvOS
OK. But tvOS is not meant for data editing (except a few boxes). You just point and click buttons.
I'm not so sure this event is going to introduce anything groundbreaking. An OLED keystrip is a nice advance, but groundbreaking? Not really. What else? This isn't going to be like the Mac introduction, or the iPhone, or iPad. It's will be several, I hope, upgraded machines, and maybe the discontinuation of another.
nice, but not groundbreaking. Groundbreaking would be an ARM MacBook. I don't see that happening this year.
what else ground breaking could they REALISTICALLY introduce now?
iOS desktop with Touch Pad + keyboard input A10X 256 GB flash $299
A competent Apple desktop computer for that price would be REVOLUTIONARY
Apple has and never will be in a race to the bottom. This is exactly what that does. iOS isn't that useful for a desktop environment. It doesn't support nearly as much as macOS.
This isn't a race to the bottom. Think of it as an iPad/iPhone accessory.
iOS is very useful for 95% of the population. Most use their desktop only to: email, web, social media, online banking, simply games, light word processing, media. iOS can easily do all of that.
If so, then put your iPad in landscape orientation on the desk with the optional keyboard, and voilà, you get an "iOS desktop".
The point is, you don't need a desktop machine to: "email, web, social media, online banking, simply games, light word processing, media". The iPad gives you all of that. If you want to attach a mouse to the iPad then you have to wait for a macOS tablet, because iOS is built for touch interaction, not mouse interaction. Force Touch can provide the missing mouse functionality, but under macOS, not under iOS.
Desktops are used as shared computers in a home.
An iPad with keyboard will cost $600+ because you are paying for a screen. Something you don't need if you buy a desktop and already have a screen. Plus you will be using your iPad battery. Plus the 10 inch iPad screen is too small as a desktop. If you use a iPad Pro you can just buy a Mac at that price.
What you are replacing is a desktop or family shared computer. This is replacing cheap crappy PC's that cost $300-$500.
There is still a huge market for a shared desktop computer with a keyboard. Not everyone wants to type on a cramp iPad keyboard and use a touch screen.
No, there isn't a "huge" market for this. No one needs a basic home desktop. Gaming PCs: check. High-end desktop for creative professionals: check. Tablet or phone for basic internet essentials: check. Something for office drones (running Windows or maybe MacOS): check. Laptops for students and everyone else: check. Media devices of various types: check Screenless Echo-type devices: sure, maybe eventually.
Who is left that's begging for some computer, screen, and keyboard taking up furniture space? Basically no one.
And the $300 price point is a complete joke--for Apple. They would make less money on that than they do from selling iPhone cases. Never going to happen.
"No one needs a basic home desktop."
You do if you want to use a device with a bigger screen than 12.9" or 15.6". It obviously won't happen at $300 but it can happen.
All this talk about an Apple developed ARM with iOS on Mac - if VMware and Parallels are onboard; if performance of emulating x86 applications and x86 hypervisors is equiv or improved, count me in. If they kill those, Apple will lose me (and probably IBM). I can't operate on a Mac that won't let me run x86 linux, windows, UNIX VMs.
All this talk about an Apple developed ARM with iOS on Mac - if VMware and Parallels are onboard; if performance of emulating x86 applications and x86 hypervisors is equiv or improved, count me in. If they kill those, Apple will lose me (and probably IBM). I can't operate on a Mac that won't let me run x86 linux, windows, UNIX VMs.
This is a very valid concern for lots of Mac users, which is why if they release an A-series iOS machine (targeting those with very light and relatively simple computing needs - think of the masses), I assume they would keep updating their Intel line of Macs for the foreseeable future for those that need the extra power and flexibility of a full-fledged desktop OS.
A10x CPU 256 GB Flash Full keyboard Wireless Touch Pad with iOS gestures $299
1. Why would Apple make such a product?
To expand their ecosystem to the home. Apple sells hundreds of millions of phones a year. But only about 20 million Mac's a year. There are literally hundreds of millions of iPhone users that don't have an Apple desktop. Mostly because Mac's are too expensive, so they buy cheap PC's. This would replace those crappy PC's. This would simply be another sticky point for the Apple ecosystem. The more Apple devices you use the less likely you leave the ecosystem.
2. What would be the benefit to the consumer?
They can get rid of their crappy PC. Seriously. Why not get a Mac instead? First of all a Mac with an Fusion drive starts at $750. Plus a Mac will never intergrate as seemlessly as another iOS device. Perfect synch with your iPhone. Super easy Apps to use. Super fast boot, and super easy input with keyboard/touch pad. All at a bargain price of $299.
3. Could Apple make a decent profit on this $299 device?
Yes. The AppleTV sells for $199. This device will basicially be an AppleTV with a few more ports. This would be viewed more as an iPhone accessory more than a totally seperate line of devices. Thus getting a 40% gross margin isn't necessary. A nice 25% margin that the AppleTV gets would be good enough. Plus selling iOS Desk will lead to more people sticking with their iPhones. Switching to Android would mean switching phones AND your home desktop. Sticky is the key.
4. Would it be hard to convert Apps to Apple Desk?
For most Apps it should not. Using a touch pad should mimic iOS touch very well, just like the AppleTV. And most of the Apps you would use in a desktop environment would work fine with a touchpad + keyboard.
5. What about power users?
This isn't for them. They can still buy Mac's or both. 95% of users use their desktop only for: email, web, online shopping, banking, media consumption, and social apps. iOS can easily handle all of that.
6. What is the end game for this product?
Basic end game is to replace the hundreds of millions of crappy PC's with the Apple Desk. At a bargain price it will also be very attractive to businesses, schools, government, ect. Mac is just too expensive for many of these industries. Eventually Apple Desk could capture 25%-30% of the desktop market. That would be massive.
Apple wants to be there everywhere you are:
Mobile: iPhone, Watch Portable: iPad, Macbook Car: CarPlay Home: Mac, Apple Desk, Apple TV, Home Hub
I think Apple could easy sell 20 million of these in the first year. And up to 100 million after 3 years. That is a massive market and strengthens the value and retention of the iPhone and Apple ecosystem
This is precisely the Mac mini.
It's even running the variant of iOS that uses touch pads and cursor input - Apple call it "macOS". Being the same basic architecture, it makes adapting software from one platform to the other as simple as possible.
Only hitch right now is that the Mac mini is currently built on intel iron. But that's just a matter of time. Again: I'd be very surprised if Apple doesn't have a version of macOS running on AX processors in the lab.
I'm pretty sure Apple engineers would like a A10x Mac, but I'm not so sure Apple management has the balls to do it. Maybe when a competitor introduces a similar ARM mini desktop/laptop.
All this talk about an Apple developed ARM with iOS on Mac - if VMware and Parallels are onboard; if performance of emulating x86 applications and x86 hypervisors is equiv or improved, count me in. If they kill those, Apple will lose me (and probably IBM). I can't operate on a Mac that won't let me run x86 linux, windows, UNIX VMs.
Strange, why only x86 Linux? It's all just a recompile away and in case of Linux, ARM distributions are practically default. Running Windows is more problematic, but it always is so why use that. Eventually when Intel fades away, even MS will make a recompile for ARM. IBM is interested in big data and servers, that will all be ARM in the future, so they will be 'in'.
As a reminder why we use desktop systems currently: 1. Screen size 2. Memory (RAM, lost of it) and fast interfaces
A10x is hampered by to few memory lines, it can probably only address 4GB or less and that is not enough for serious applications running side by side. I would say 8GB is a minimum for serious computing.
Memory bandwidth it not a problem but fast external interfaces like lightning are. So if Apple corrects this and makes an A10xx a $299 desktop computer is a reality.
Another step would be to make a dock and let i devices equipped with an A10xx chip switch to desktop mode; Apple could easily add 12GB or more to its i devices, or alternatively let a fast interface handle that and put more (RAM) memory in the dock.
So it's really not an OS problem in the first place, it's a hardware spec. problem and probably lack of balls that stand in the way of real innovation.
Strange, why only x86 Linux? It's all just a recompile away and in case of Linux, ARM distributions are practically default. Running Windows is more problematic, but it always is so why use that. Eventually when Intel fades away, even MS will make a recompile for ARM. IBM is interested in big data and servers, that will all be ARM in the future, so they will be 'in'.
I reckon something other than x86 Linux might do but I imagine it a very heavy haul to get all linux builds to also port native to whatever this vapor-ARM-Mac is. I'd prefer to use the same linux options I have today. Would Redhat, for example, keep the x86 and the Apple ARM releases in sync?
As a reminder why we use desktop systems currently: 1. Screen size 2. Memory (RAM, lost of it) and fast interfaces
A10x is hampered by to few memory lines, it can probably only address 4GB or less and that is not enough for serious applications running side by side. I would say 8GB is a minimum for serious computing.
Memory bandwidth it not a problem but fast external interfaces like lightning are. So if Apple corrects this and makes an A10xx a $299 desktop computer is a reality.
Another step would be to make a dock and let i devices equipped with an A10xx chip switch to desktop mode; Apple could easily add 12GB or more to its i devices, or alternatively let a fast interface handle that and put more (RAM) memory in the dock.
So it's really not an OS problem in the first place, it's a hardware spec. problem and probably lack of balls that stand in the way of real innovation.
Good points. Yes a large screen is a huge plus. The iPad Pro has a large screen for a tablet, but its very small for a desktop. Sometimes you just need a big screen.
I think 4GB Ram is enough for most desktop users. But hey, Iike your idea of an A10xx
Other reasons people use desktops:
1. Full size keyboard. Even the iPad Pro keyboard isn't ideal. Plus using a touch screen+keyboard isn't the best ergononically. Keyboard+mouse is so much better on a desk/table. 2. No battery worries. Why tax your iPhone/iPad battery at home?
I like your idea of a $299 ARM Mac, and most of your arguments about it.
Strange, why only x86 Linux? It's all just a recompile away and in case of Linux, ARM distributions are practically default. Running Windows is more problematic, but it always is so why use that. Eventually when Intel fades away, even MS will make a recompile for ARM. IBM is interested in big data and servers, that will all be ARM in the future, so they will be 'in'.
I reckon something other than x86 Linux might do but I imagine it a very heavy haul to get all linux builds to also port native to whatever this vapor-ARM-Mac is. I'd prefer to use the same linux options I have today. Would Redhat, for example, keep the x86 and the Apple ARM releases in sync?
Redhat and all other Linux distributions run on servers (mostly), so when ARM hardware is on it this will make it almost certain that most ARM distribution will be kept current. Linux will without a doubt run perfectly on ARM in the future, as it already does now. Just forget about Windows, that's a DodOS (Dodo OS).
As a reminder why we use desktop systems currently: 1. Screen size 2. Memory (RAM, lost of it) and fast interfaces
A10x is hampered by to few memory lines, it can probably only address 4GB or less and that is not enough for serious applications running side by side. I would say 8GB is a minimum for serious computing.
Memory bandwidth it not a problem but fast external interfaces like lightning are. So if Apple corrects this and makes an A10xx a $299 desktop computer is a reality.
Another step would be to make a dock and let i devices equipped with an A10xx chip switch to desktop mode; Apple could easily add 12GB or more to its i devices, or alternatively let a fast interface handle that and put more (RAM) memory in the dock.
So it's really not an OS problem in the first place, it's a hardware spec. problem and probably lack of balls that stand in the way of real innovation.
2. No battery worries. Why tax your iPhone/iPad battery at home?
It you say so, then the entire Axx series desktop dreams crash. Since you don't want to use battery power at home just plug in an Intel chip and enjoy macOS X, with high level of parallelism, hyper-threading, simultaneous multithreading provided by Intel. You would never want your system come to a halt when you copy 128932 files from one disk to another.
Believe me, I used macOS Classic since System 7, and I know what the lack of preemptive multitasking means. God forbid...
As a reminder why we use desktop systems currently: 1. Screen size 2. Memory (RAM, lost of it) and fast interfaces
A10x is hampered by to few memory lines, it can probably only address 4GB or less and that is not enough for serious applications running side by side. I would say 8GB is a minimum for serious computing.
Memory bandwidth it not a problem but fast external interfaces like lightning are. So if Apple corrects this and makes an A10xx a $299 desktop computer is a reality.
Another step would be to make a dock and let i devices equipped with an A10xx chip switch to desktop mode; Apple could easily add 12GB or more to its i devices, or alternatively let a fast interface handle that and put more (RAM) memory in the dock.
So it's really not an OS problem in the first place, it's a hardware spec. problem and probably lack of balls that stand in the way of real innovation.
2. No battery worries. Why tax your iPhone/iPad battery at home?
It you say so, then the entire Axx series desktop dreams crash. Since you don't want to use battery power at home just plug in an Intel chip and enjoy macOS X, with high level of parallelism, hyper-threading, simultaneous multithreading provided by Intel. You would never want your system comes to a halt when you copy 128932 files from one disk to another.
Believe me, I used macOS Classic since System 7, and I know what the lack of preemptive multitasking means. God forbid...
The dock is also a charger of course and doesn't tax the iPhone (model Axx) battery at all. iOS switches to desktop mode when it's docked and is fully mutiltasing in that case. I imagine the dock has several thunderbolt slots to drive ssd's and other kind of peripherals like external (RAM) memory, video cards and so on. I expect it also to have some flash memory card slots. ...
As a reminder why we use desktop systems currently: 1. Screen size 2. Memory (RAM, lost of it) and fast interfaces
A10x is hampered by to few memory lines, it can probably only address 4GB or less and that is not enough for serious applications running side by side. I would say 8GB is a minimum for serious computing.
Memory bandwidth it not a problem but fast external interfaces like lightning are. So if Apple corrects this and makes an A10xx a $299 desktop computer is a reality.
Another step would be to make a dock and let i devices equipped with an A10xx chip switch to desktop mode; Apple could easily add 12GB or more to its i devices, or alternatively let a fast interface handle that and put more (RAM) memory in the dock.
So it's really not an OS problem in the first place, it's a hardware spec. problem and probably lack of balls that stand in the way of real innovation.
2. No battery worries. Why tax your iPhone/iPad battery at home?
It you say so, then the entire Axx series desktop dreams crash. Since you don't want to use battery power at home just plug in an Intel chip and enjoy macOS X, with high level of parallelism, hyper-threading, simultaneous multithreading provided by Intel. You would never want your system comes to a halt when you copy 128932 files from one disk to another.
Believe me, I used macOS Classic since System 7, and I know what the lack of preemptive multitasking means. God forbid...
The dock is also a charger of course and doesn't tax the iPhone (model Axx) battery at all. iOS switches to desktop mode when it's docked and is fully mutiltasing in that case. I imagine the dock has several thunderbolt slots to drive ssd's and other kind of peripherals like external (RAM) memory, video cards and so on. I expect it also to have some flash memory card slots. ...
iOS cannot fully multitask, actually the point is not necessarily multitasking. We use multitasking and parallelism interchangeably but they are different things. What makes Intel chips more suited to desktop tasks is the high level of parallelism they provide. In layman's understanding, two (or more) threads are executed at the same time, not interleavedly or one after the other, like two windows open at the same time. This is simultaneous multithreading.
ARM passed on simultaneous multithreading for the sake of switching to 64 bit in 2012. I have no further knowledge on their intentions to implement it.
Suppose a battery solution came to the rescue and iOS allowed full multitasking. Intel chips would still perform better with their hyper-threading tech and their being bullish on the power issues. Apple never commits to half-baked solutions in such essential matters.
...and even if the ARM hardware worked (which it doesn't at present, apparently), what you're asking for is, essentially, a computer that runs both iOS and macOS, and switches between the two according to what interface peripherals are hooked up. Stop calling it an "iOS-based desktop", already.
Comments
You do if you want to use a device with a bigger screen than 12.9" or 15.6". It obviously won't happen at $300 but it can happen.
True Sog-isms:
Apple should go Private.
Apple should licence iOS to other phone manufacturers.
Apple should release an iOS desktop for $300.
It's even running the variant of iOS that uses touch pads and cursor input - Apple call it "macOS".
Being the same basic architecture, it makes adapting software from one platform to the other as simple as possible.
Only hitch right now is that the Mac mini is currently built on intel iron. But that's just a matter of time. Again: I'd be very surprised if Apple doesn't have a version of macOS running on AX processors in the lab.
Maybe when a competitor introduces a similar ARM mini desktop/laptop.
It's all just a recompile away and in case of Linux, ARM distributions are practically default.
Running Windows is more problematic, but it always is so why use that.
Eventually when Intel fades away, even MS will make a recompile for ARM.
IBM is interested in big data and servers, that will all be ARM in the future, so they will be 'in'.
1. Screen size
2. Memory (RAM, lost of it) and fast interfaces
A10x is hampered by to few memory lines, it can probably only address 4GB or less and that is not enough for serious applications running side by side. I would say 8GB is a minimum for serious computing.
Memory bandwidth it not a problem but fast external interfaces like lightning are.
So if Apple corrects this and makes an A10xx a $299 desktop computer is a reality.
Another step would be to make a dock and let i devices equipped with an A10xx chip switch to desktop mode; Apple could easily add 12GB or more to its i devices, or alternatively let a fast interface handle that and put more (RAM) memory in the dock.
So it's really not an OS problem in the first place, it's a hardware spec. problem and probably lack of balls that stand in the way of real innovation.
I finally cracked it!
This event will introduce re-designed Macs.
Linux will without a doubt run perfectly on ARM in the future, as it already does now.
Just forget about Windows, that's a DodOS (Dodo OS).
Believe me, I used macOS Classic since System 7, and I know what the lack of preemptive multitasking means. God forbid...
iOS switches to desktop mode when it's docked and is fully mutiltasing in that case.
I imagine the dock has several thunderbolt slots to drive ssd's and other kind of peripherals like external (RAM) memory, video cards and so on.
I expect it also to have some flash memory card slots.
...
ARM passed on simultaneous multithreading for the sake of switching to 64 bit in 2012. I have no further knowledge on their intentions to implement it.
Suppose a battery solution came to the rescue and iOS allowed full multitasking. Intel chips would still perform better with their hyper-threading tech and their being bullish on the power issues. Apple never commits to half-baked solutions in such essential matters.