Apple debuts affordable 13" MacBook Pro model, axes 11" MacBook Air

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 83
    polymnia said:
    polymnia said:
    dodja said:
    I have been studying at Uni for the last 3 years and the increased adoption rate Apple laptops specifically MBA has been impressive.  But with this new higher priced models I expect that adoption rate to reverse. around NZD $1600 for MBA was a good student option NZD $2499 is not.  When the MBA arrived you could experience all the features the OS had to offer.   Now, the base unit can not deliver on this.  The user has to stump up $2999NZD to experience the touch bar.

    I understand that exports etc with currency variance can make a difference for overseas buyers but prior to the price increase by apple in New Zealand I purchased the base 15" model for less (and direct from Apple) than the new 13" model launched today.

    It would appear Apple no longer wants to appeal to all sections of its user base.
    You are looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses.

    Go back and read the shrieking about all the missing features of the original MBA. Notice the complaints beginning in comment #2 at the AI article linked in the prior sentence.

    You will likely find complaints about price in there as well.
    The original MBA was a weak, but stylish joke.  Much like the first of the new MacBooks.  The MBA became a mini 'Pro" (with faster CPUs and usable ports) and the new MBs took the place of the MBA, but with a Retina display.  The latest MBs are getting better CPUs, but are still "cafe " computers.  

    Entry price for a non-cafe laptop just went up several hundred dollars.
    I'm trying to understand which laptops are non-cafe computers. If not the new MBPs, perhaps you refer to the last generation MBP? If so, I disagree. The new MBPs are certainly the non-cafe computers in Apple's lineup. The new ones are way faster, better GPUs, faster interconnect, capable of driving high bit depth displays, etc.

    Looking past the cafe versus non-cafe issue, I think you are missing a long-term pattern that is playing out again:

    When Apple does a big redesign, the new models are always more expensive than the outgoing design. As the new design moves through the lineup, the price slowly drifts down. We are just existing that stage as of today. This happened with Retina a few years ago. It happened with the MBA a few years before that.

    Its just the way Apple works.

    If the price is too high, just sit tight. It will come down and the new design features will move down-market with time.
    Also, previous models are still available with their usual prices, Apple forces no one to buy the new models as they have not retired the previous models except overlapping ones.

    "I didn't like the previous models, I was expecting better models with lower or same prices". Then wait for a year or so, Apple will do that in the next iteration of the new models.

    But consider also that every new purchase will prevent you from buying for a while, usually a year at least. Then within time, you become anchored to next iterations or liquidation dumping of every model. 

    This release is a jump forward, not an incremental update, since it introduces TouchID along with Apple Pay on the Mac, carefully selected processors, Thunderbolt 3, form factor change and many other enhancements.
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 62 of 83
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    A lot of naysayers here who don't really seem to understand what Apple are aiming for.

    So the new model doesn't suit your needs. Guess what? The new model isn't aimed at you.

    It's aimed at the same people who want more power than an MBA but don't need the full power of the MBP.

    It also means Apple have a clear and consise model line up.

    Don't need ports or Retina but do need portability? MacBook. Needs some ports, Retina, and portability? 13" MacBook Pro. For everything else there's the rest of the MacBook Pro range. This means Apple only has to deal with two ranges for marketing.

    It's actually a brilliant move. The Air always seemed out of place and frankly it was inevitable that it would disappear.
    Isn't MacBook also Retina...?

    I don't like their naming. Air should be smallest, lightest. Then MacBook. Then MacBook Pro.

    For me, perfect line-up would be:

    Air - something like current MacBook, only with no retina... but better screen than current MBA. Say, 1920x1200 screen (Macs are 16:10, right?).

    MB - current 13" Air body with retina, maybe limited to i3 and i5. Maybe reduced in size a bit, by narrowing bezel (and body to match).

    MBPro - as they are. Or maybe in 14" and 16" but with narrow bezels to make them (almost) as small as current 13" and 15" models.

    Does this make sense to anyone else? :)
  • Reply 63 of 83
    shevshev Posts: 84member
    Apple's Mac sales are going to absolutely tank throughout the world after today, the currency increase due to the strong USD on top of a bump anyway and they've completely alienated most of their market. For those not in the US the prices are so very very hard to swallow. All the old stock increased by £200 - 300+ within an hour of the UK store reopening and the 'affordable' price for this crippled MBP is the princely sum of £1449. £1749 for the Touch Bar MBP with 8GB ram and 256GB SSD is insane. Even with student discount to bring it to £1570 it's still a very very expensive machine considering the old 15" used to start at around £1500
    edited October 2016 jbishop1039baconstang
  • Reply 64 of 83
    nikon133nikon133 Posts: 2,600member
    Wow! That is affordable? The prices are just incredible. I don't think most people can justify this kind of expense for a laptop. I certainly can't.  They've completely price themselves out of the range of 99% of the population. The MacBooks are a joke and the Pros are computers for the 1%. Just like the iPad pros, they have gotten way too expensive. iPads used to be affordable for everyone. There used to be at least a couple of Macs I could afford. I guess I'm gonna have to learn to live with Windows 10. I use it at work. It isn't so bad I guess. Apple has completely done away with their entry and mid level computers and gone super ultra high premium. For the first time in 35 years I will have to be a Windows user. Too bad. I'm a little sad to say goodbye to the community. It's been nice being one of you.

    One of the faithful now apparently too poor for Apple to bother with.  
    Total cost of ownership will be higher than MBP if you go buy a windows computer. You will probably end up buying two Windows computers to last as long as a MBP
    No, not really. At least not in my opinion. I'm usually buying mid-range laptops... so I'm skipping cheap plastic crap on one side, and crazy expensive posh units on the other side (such as Lenovo Carbon X1). In the middle, you can get good and robust machines, full metal, decent IPS screens, backlit keyboards, expandable, with 3 - 4 years default warranty. I'm seeing a lot of those working fine well after 5 years of age.
  • Reply 65 of 83
    shev said:
    Apple's Mac sales are going to absolutely tank throughout the world after today, the currency increase due to the strong USD on top of a bump anyway and they've completely alienated most of their market. For those not in the US the prices are so very very hard to swallow. All the old stock increased by £200 - 300+ within an hour of the UK store reopening and the 'affordable' price for this crippled MBP is the princely sum of £1449. £1749 for the Touch Bar MBP with 8GB ram and 256GB SSD is insane. Even with student discount to bring it to £1570 it's still a very very expensive machine considering the old 15" used to start at around £1500
    Russian Apple Store increased 30% last year but the Russians have not flooded forums with such complaints ;-) Is that Apple's fault if the USD goes strong? Apple makes several efforts to leverage currency conflicts. Anyway, subtract the VAT from your local prices, apply your exchange rate and what you find is plus/minus US Apple Store prices. Previously, Apple was applying even an export surcharge. Now prices are uniform through all Apple Stores around the world.
  • Reply 66 of 83
    nikon133 said:
    A lot of naysayers here who don't really seem to understand what Apple are aiming for.

    So the new model doesn't suit your needs. Guess what? The new model isn't aimed at you.

    It's aimed at the same people who want more power than an MBA but don't need the full power of the MBP.

    It also means Apple have a clear and consise model line up.

    Don't need ports or Retina but do need portability? MacBook. Needs some ports, Retina, and portability? 13" MacBook Pro. For everything else there's the rest of the MacBook Pro range. This means Apple only has to deal with two ranges for marketing.

    It's actually a brilliant move. The Air always seemed out of place and frankly it was inevitable that it would disappear.
    Isn't MacBook also Retina...?

    I don't like their naming. Air should be smallest, lightest. Then MacBook. Then MacBook Pro.

    For me, perfect line-up would be:

    Air - something like current MacBook, only with no retina... but better screen than current MBA. Say, 1920x1200 screen (Macs are 16:10, right?).

    MB - current 13" Air body with retina, maybe limited to i3 and i5. Maybe reduced in size a bit, by narrowing bezel (and body to match).

    MBPro - as they are. Or maybe in 14" and 16" but with narrow bezels to make them (almost) as small as current 13" and 15" models.

    Does this make sense to anyone else?
    Not exactly to me...

    Air - the same 13" MBA is still available and Apple does not retire it as long as it sells, as they did with the old 13" MBP w/DVD. But we must agree that it has no future because it has no Retina. Looking for 4K video  in a smartphone then ignoring Retina would not go together...

    MB - 13" Air body would make it a Pro due to the larger battery and improved internals to drive the 13" Retina screen. Also it targets those who want full macOS power in the footprint of an iPad.

    MBPro - as they are. 15" is enough as long as it is Retina.
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 67 of 83
    shevshev Posts: 84member
    shev said:
    Apple's Mac sales are going to absolutely tank throughout the world after today, the currency increase due to the strong USD on top of a bump anyway and they've completely alienated most of their market. For those not in the US the prices are so very very hard to swallow. All the old stock increased by £200 - 300+ within an hour of the UK store reopening and the 'affordable' price for this crippled MBP is the princely sum of £1449. £1749 for the Touch Bar MBP with 8GB ram and 256GB SSD is insane. Even with student discount to bring it to £1570 it's still a very very expensive machine considering the old 15" used to start at around £1500
    Russian Apple Store increased 30% last year but the Russians have not flooded forums with such complaints ;-) Is that Apple's fault if the USD goes strong? Apple makes several efforts to leverage currency conflicts. Anyway, subtract the VAT from your local prices, apply your exchange rate and what you find is plus/minus US Apple Store prices. Previously, Apple was applying even an export surcharge. Now prices are uniform through all Apple Stores around the world.
    Obviously it's not Apple's fault if the USD is strong but the price of Macs in the UK are just completely alien to most of the population. The students that were picking up MBAs or rMBPs for £900-£1100 are now looking at a minimum of £1300 for a crippled MBP and £1570 for the 'new' model. There's already a poster from NZ before me (on here) and others I've read from EU countries that won't be able to swallow these prices. If Apple wants to have any new marketshare outside of the US then the prices need a serious rethink because they are horrific. Just read twitter comments in a few countries outside of the US to get an insight into the feeling. Me personally have been waiting a good couple of years for this upgrade having strung my 2011 MBA out well beyond it's expected lifespan, had £1000s ready to drop on this new machine but am having massive reservations about getting it at the current price.

    To give you a guide as to other makers, a 15" Dell XPS with 6th Gen i7s, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD can be had for £1149, or the 13" HP Spectre can be had for £1300 with 6th Gen i7, 8GB RAM and 512GB SSD
    edited October 2016
  • Reply 68 of 83
    jvmbjvmb Posts: 59member
    polymnia said:
    I can probably count on two hands the number of times I've needed to connect to a conference room video system.

    Most cameras are iPhones.

    I'd say for the typical, daily use patterns of users, its okay to drop these dedicated ports. Seeing the the two plugs you mention are the largest holes in the side of a modern MacBook Pro, they made the right call from where I sit.
    Apple used to target creative professionals with the MBP line. A group that is more likely than the average user to present their work on a large screen and use SLR cameras.
  • Reply 69 of 83
    shev said:
    shev said:
    Apple's Mac sales are going to absolutely tank throughout the world after today, the currency increase due to the strong USD on top of a bump anyway and they've completely alienated most of their market. For those not in the US the prices are so very very hard to swallow. All the old stock increased by £200 - 300+ within an hour of the UK store reopening and the 'affordable' price for this crippled MBP is the princely sum of £1449. £1749 for the Touch Bar MBP with 8GB ram and 256GB SSD is insane. Even with student discount to bring it to £1570 it's still a very very expensive machine considering the old 15" used to start at around £1500
    Russian Apple Store increased 30% last year but the Russians have not flooded forums with such complaints ;-) Is that Apple's fault if the USD goes strong? Apple makes several efforts to leverage currency conflicts. Anyway, subtract the VAT from your local prices, apply your exchange rate and what you find is plus/minus US Apple Store prices. Previously, Apple was applying even an export surcharge. Now prices are uniform through all Apple Stores around the world.
    Obviously it's not Apple's fault if the USD is strong but the price of Macs in the UK are just completely alien to most of the population. The students that were picking up MBAs or rMBPs for £900-£1100 are now looking at a minimum of £1300 for a crippled MBP and £1570 for the 'new' model. There's already a poster from NZ before me (on here) and others I've read from EU countries that won't be able to swallow these prices. If Apple wants to have any new marketshare outside of the US then the prices need a serious rethink because they are horrific. Just read twitter comments in a few countries outside of the US to get an insight into the feeling. Me personally have been waiting a good couple of years for this upgrade having strung my 2011 MBA out well beyond it's expected lifespan, had £1000s ready to drop on this new machine but am having massive reservations about getting it at the current price.
    I understand your point and I am restraining myself in such a discourse. I am sure you will resolve your reservations and you will find a way to upgrade. Thinking in short term instead of long term may help in some cases. Retina, RAM, SSD: just focus on these and ignore the rest of the specs, you'll find a fairly good solution.

    People spend a fortune for 4K video on their smartphones, but when it comes to a true 4K capable computer they complain, I don't understand that. The majority of those tweet owners may have already been victim of "the computer is dead, the smartphone is everything" illusion.
  • Reply 70 of 83
    shev said: 

    To give you a guide as to other makers, a 15" Dell XPS with 6th Gen i7s, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD can be had for £1149, or the 13" HP Spectre can be had for £1300 with 6th Gen i7, 8GB RAM and 512GB SSD
    To get over such spec wars in the PC world is extremely difficult, because one must be expert in reading between the lines. Even that is not enough, we must dig up to the footnotes in Intel's product documents. What about ports for example? The port does not support 4K but the OEM put a 4K capable chip... Or vice versa, the chip does not support 4K but the OEM brags about Thunderbolt 3... RAM is pretty standard but the SSD is another adventure... Or the display is crappy...

    You'll not run into such deceptions with Apple. This is why you buy Macs...
    watto_cobrapulseimages
  • Reply 71 of 83
    seankill said:
    ubergeek said:
    lets try again.

    very disappointed.

    according to the intel web site.  graphics 550 is associated with i7  skylake.  the new chip now rolling out kaby lake,  uses the 600 series of graphics.

    also i use my laptop on my desk, with external keyboard and mouse.  no external keyboard with touch id. no 802.11ac wave 2

    i can deal with only usb-c (in general).

    in essence this laptop is one year beyond the technology curve.
    Kaby Lake isn't shipping in any volume, especially not the chips Apple needs. Blame Intel, not Apple. It's also a very small upgrade.

    These processors have been available since Q1 2016. This are not new processors any longer. These computers are already 6 months late.

    The 13" MBP (with Touch Bar) utilizes 28W Dual-core processors and the 15" utilizes 45W quad-core processors.  the Kaby Lake processors designed for those specific units are not out yet. They will be out Q1 of 2017 (and that goes for the desktop Kaby Lake processors as well).   As far as I know, the only PC systems using Kaby Lake processors are ones that are utilizing the low-power 4.5W & 15W Kaby Lake processors, which are not designed for Pro or high-performance machines

    Heck, even the new 14" Razer Blade and 17" Razer Blade Pro that just came are also using Skylake processors, which you classify as late, even though these processors are plenty fast. I challenge you to even look at the what processors the new Surface Book Performance Grade and Surface Studio are using. I would be very surprised if they're Kaby Lake. 

    If I were to wager a guess, MBP will get Kaby Lake updates right around WWDC.

  • Reply 72 of 83
    shev said:
    Apple's Mac sales are going to absolutely tank throughout the world after today, the currency increase due to the strong USD on top of a bump anyway and they've completely alienated most of their market. For those not in the US the prices are so very very hard to swallow. All the old stock increased by £200 - 300+ within an hour of the UK store reopening and the 'affordable' price for this crippled MBP is the princely sum of £1449. £1749 for the Touch Bar MBP with 8GB ram and 256GB SSD is insane. Even with student discount to bring it to £1570 it's still a very very expensive machine considering the old 15" used to start at around £1500
    " For those not in the US the prices are so very very hard to swallow."

    How is it Apple's fault if the rest of the world's currencies are doing shit. I'm in Canada, so I know what it feels like but I'm not going to blame Apple for that. I'll blame my government.
  • Reply 73 of 83
    nikon133 said:
    A lot of naysayers here who don't really seem to understand what Apple are aiming for.

    So the new model doesn't suit your needs. Guess what? The new model isn't aimed at you.

    It's aimed at the same people who want more power than an MBA but don't need the full power of the MBP.

    It also means Apple have a clear and consise model line up.

    Don't need ports or Retina but do need portability? MacBook. Needs some ports, Retina, and portability? 13" MacBook Pro. For everything else there's the rest of the MacBook Pro range. This means Apple only has to deal with two ranges for marketing.

    It's actually a brilliant move. The Air always seemed out of place and frankly it was inevitable that it would disappear.
    Isn't MacBook also Retina...?

    I don't like their naming. Air should be smallest, lightest. Then MacBook. Then MacBook Pro.

    For me, perfect line-up would be:

    Air - something like current MacBook, only with no retina... but better screen than current MBA. Say, 1920x1200 screen (Macs are 16:10, right?).

    MB - current 13" Air body with retina, maybe limited to i3 and i5. Maybe reduced in size a bit, by narrowing bezel (and body to match).

    MBPro - as they are. Or maybe in 14" and 16" but with narrow bezels to make them (almost) as small as current 13" and 15" models.

    Does this make sense to anyone else?
    Not exactly to me...

    Air - the same 13" MBA is still available and Apple does not retire it as long as it sells, as they did with the old 13" MBP w/DVD. But we must agree that it has no future because it has no Retina. Looking for 4K video  in a smartphone then ignoring Retina would not go together...

    MB - 13" Air body would make it a Pro due to the larger battery and improved internals to drive the 13" Retina screen. Also it targets those who want full macOS power in the footprint of an iPad.

    MBPro - as they are. 15" is enough as long as it is Retina.
    The Air for intents and purpose is Dead Man Walking.
  • Reply 74 of 83
    shevshev Posts: 84member
    shev said: 

    To give you a guide as to other makers, a 15" Dell XPS with 6th Gen i7s, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD can be had for £1149, or the 13" HP Spectre can be had for £1300 with 6th Gen i7, 8GB RAM and 512GB SSD
    To get over such spec wars in the PC world is extremely difficult, because one must be expert in reading between the lines. Even that is not enough, we must dig up to the footnotes in Intel's product documents. What about ports for example? The port does not support 4K but the OEM put a 4K capable chip... Or vice versa, the chip does not support 4K but the OEM brags about Thunderbolt 3... RAM is pretty standard but the SSD is another adventure... Or the display is crappy...

    You'll not run into such deceptions with Apple. This is why you buy Macs...
    Yeah I agree it's a minefield and an absolute pain in the a*se for non-tech people to understand specs but the point being made was that they are all top of the line Windows PCs and before this price hike they were all similarly priced to the MB and rMBPs. So Apple made very impressive gains in the UK market because any premium Windows laptop was invariably priced similar to the equivalent Mac. Look at any university campus in the UK and it's actually ridiculous how many Macs are there, honestly I'd say 90% + . But now there's a huge price gulf again and I think that a lot of Apple's good work for the last 5 years will come undone in next to no time 
  • Reply 75 of 83
    We're phone company, we're a headphone company, we're a music company, we're a car company.  We're lots of things, but we're not a computer company....  Looks like Tim finally took to heart Steve's ideal of ruthlessly saying no....

  • Reply 76 of 83
    shevshev Posts: 84member
    shev said:
    Apple's Mac sales are going to absolutely tank throughout the world after today, the currency increase due to the strong USD on top of a bump anyway and they've completely alienated most of their market. For those not in the US the prices are so very very hard to swallow. All the old stock increased by £200 - 300+ within an hour of the UK store reopening and the 'affordable' price for this crippled MBP is the princely sum of £1449. £1749 for the Touch Bar MBP with 8GB ram and 256GB SSD is insane. Even with student discount to bring it to £1570 it's still a very very expensive machine considering the old 15" used to start at around £1500
    " For those not in the US the prices are so very very hard to swallow."

    How is it Apple's fault if the rest of the world's currencies are doing shit. I'm in Canada, so I know what it feels like but I'm not going to blame Apple for that. I'll blame my government.
    I didn't say it's their fault, I merely pointed out that the sales outside of the US are going to plummet. It's all well and good for Apple to do a like for like currency equivalent but there still needs to be a somewhat sensible approach to the market in which they wish to sell. It's not like everyone's wages in the UK have suddenly gone up by 20% is it?
  • Reply 77 of 83
    I still do not see what advantage is the new cheaper model of the 13" at 1499. The older model seemed faster and was 1299.

    ?????
  • Reply 78 of 83
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,454member
    ireland said:

    Also, no Lightning port on the new MBP? Your saying I need to use a dongle to connect the headphones that shipped with iPhone 7? Why? Apple make both products. Either add a Lightning port and a headphone port to MBP or kill the blooming' headphone port they called archaic and give us Lightning. Might seem like a small detail, but I know for certain this would cause me annoyance that would not retreat. Frankly kind of puts me off the computer. I'm not joking.
    They cannot give you Lightning on the Mac because Lightning is actually Thunderbolt, tailored for iOS. 
    I fail to see why this would be a restriction. If nothing else, it would make incorporating a Lightning port easier. 

    In the meantime, if they aren't giving us an actual Lightning port, how about a Lightning headphone adapter to USB-C at a minimum.
  • Reply 79 of 83
    rezwitsrezwits Posts: 758member
    Why wouldn't they just eliminate the 13" Air at this point, I mean get it over with already...
  • Reply 80 of 83
    benji888 said:
    I don't have a problem with the move to USB-C ports, they are actually multi-functional, including moving power in both directions. Here's a cool dock for USB-C Macs: https://eshop.macsales.com/shop/usb-c/owc/usb-c-dock


    I have that OWC dock for my 2015 MacBook. It does the job brilliantly and I only unplug one cable to be on the go.

    I have Apple's multiport A/V adaptor in the bag just in case, but haven't needed it since I got this dock.

    pulseimages
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