I guess this is good but man how did Apple get pricing wrong to being with? Outside of the original iPhone how often has Apple reduced the price on a product only a week or so after it was announced?
Does it really matter.
Yes. It says to me Apple is not on top of its game. I don't know who's responsible for setting prices but they screwed up. I'll bet 3rd parties will be allowed to offer deep discounts on the new MBPs.
Same person who totally fucked up on the original iPod,MB Air and iPhone .... wait, what?
Who cares - it is an ugly product, that doesn't come up to Apple's usual high standards in design. How difficult would it really be to put a matching Apple enclosure around a OEM 4k display? Apple is getting lazy, retreating from what should be core markets into the ... "we only make what you can carry market".
Who cares - it is an ugly product, that doesn't come up to Apple's usual high standards in design. How difficult would it really be to put a matching Apple enclosure around a OEM 4k display? Apple is getting lazy, retreating from what should be core markets into the ... "we only make what you can carry market".
Just as likely is that the production of IGZO backed LCDs has not reached the level where LG can supply enough for Apple to repackage.
It's also possible that Apple wants to clear out their contracted stock of these monitors before they introduce their own in a few months.
You would get some agreement for your theory at MacRumors, though. Maybe go peddle it there.
Who cares - it is an ugly product, that doesn't come up to Apple's usual high standards in design. How difficult would it really be to put a matching Apple enclosure around a OEM 4k display? Apple is getting lazy, retreating from what should be core markets into the ... "we only make what you can carry market".
Just as likely is that the production of IGZO backed LCDs has not reached the level where LG can supply enough for Apple to repackage.
It's also possible that Apple wants to clear out their contracted stock of these monitors before they introduce their own in a few months.
You would get some agreement for your theory at MacRumors, though. Maybe go peddle it there.
Or they may be working on something more complex that has includes a built-in GPU and other HW features (e.g.: T1 chip with Touch ID and Apple Pay in corner of monitor on the bezel because it's not feasible to do in a wireless keyboard due to security reasons). Or they might be waiting on something more innovative like a Retina ultra-wide (21:9 or similar) aspect ratio. Or maybe finally introducing something with the google-less 3D mapping stuff they've been working on for many years. Or maybe they are waiting for new Mac desktops before they introduce these new displays since notebook users aren't as likely to buy external displays. Or…
Let's keep in mind this isn't the first time Apple has pimped a product from a partner/competitor while it was still working on its own product. It's been a week since their amazing event but instead of saying, "Cool. Updated stuff and innovative new tech. None of it fits my current needs but I'm glad they're pushing the industry forward," instead we get a bunch of whiners complaining about how Apple isn't directly catering to their needs. Where do these entitled people get this notion that Apple should do exactly what they want because they've been "loyal customers"?
Maybe Apple should stop making keyboards too - too much trouble ... just buy a Mac and add your own keyboard from Logitech. Who needs those pesky 'entitled' customers ... Heck - why should Apple make a mouse anymore either? After all, Logitech makes them too. Of course, there is the small itsy bitsy issue of Steve Jobs touting the unique advantage of Apple being able to seamlessly integrate hardware and software, at every stage of the user experience ... and that only Apple can do this ... that THAT is Apple's unique advantage. Ummm - maybe somebody forgot that. Oopsy bad.
** ugly plastic design that does not fit to any premium Apple product
** only three USB ports: not enough to be used as a dock
** Ethernet port
** no Audio output
** no glass front (which I love on my iMac and previous Cinema Display)
** Till end of the year prices will most likely drop anyway.
** Now that one can connect the legacy Thunderbolt Display to the new Macbook, again, bying a used display is a good alternative. For general use the extra resolution is not too visible (for text processing, surfing, etc.).
Maybe Apple should stop making keyboards too - too much trouble ... just buy a Mac and add your own keyboard from Logitech. Who needs those pesky 'entitled' customers ... Heck - why should Apple make a mouse anymore either? After all, Logitech makes them too. Of course, there is the small itsy bitsy issue of Steve Jobs touting the unique advantage of Apple being able to seamlessly integrate hardware and software, at every stage of the user experience ... and that only Apple can do this ... that THAT is Apple's unique advantage. Ummm - maybe somebody forgot that. Oopsy bad.
1) It sure sounds like you've forgotten that. People have complained about Apple's mice since the beginning… and I mean the very beginning. It would be naysayers—maybe even you—that would have balked at the idea of the Mac. People that said that the mouse is useless gimmick, that real work is done with the command line, that Apple has lost its way, and would have used the failed Lisa as proof that the GUI and mouse were failed concepts that no one wanted and reduced productivity for "pro" users. History has shown that all those whiners with their prognostication of doom and gloom were wrong.
2) You should look into the W1 chip that Apple introduced 2 months ago. While it's now used in 2 shipping pairs of headphones by Beats and soon to be used in a 3rd pair of headphone with the Apple branding, it's primary function is to intelligently connect and maintain a power-efficient, always-ready paired connection with one or more devices via BT. This means that the current W1 chip, future W-series chips, and horizontally integrated development of their other wireless technologies could be adopted for a future mouse/trackpad, a data-heavy wireless keyboard with a Touch Bar (and possible a T1 chip with Touch ID and Apple Pay), WiFi (IEEE 802.11), and even cellular broadband with their iPhone and iPad (or Mac or Watch). This is not technology in which to scoff at or write off as frivolous.
I guess this is good but man how did Apple get pricing wrong to being with? Outside of the original iPhone how often has Apple reduced the price on a product only a week or so after it was announced?
Those prices would be fine for an monitor, designed by Jony Ive & his team.
The mistake Apple made, was to assume we would be happy to pay a premium for a third party product.
Now give us a 25% discount on the new MacBook Pros
Would be nice but that would be a total embarrassment. Well... it already is. With 40% off on dongles and 25% on monitors after 1 week, the MBP 2016 launch has now ended in a fire sale.
This is not going to fix MacBook Pro as the core product is not right. They should have kept MagSafe, DisplayPort, startup beep, and a Pro keyboard. Instead Apple tries to fix the problem of not having a vision (no... anorexia is not really a vision) by lowering pricing on accessories. The "total cost incl. dongles" and "total weight incl. dongles" still doesn't work.
The MBP 2016 is the IIvi/IIvx of our time, and it is the first time in 30 years that I have declined to get a new mac!
Maybe Apple should stop making keyboards too - too much trouble ... just buy a Mac and add your own keyboard from Logitech. Who needs those pesky 'entitled' customers ... Heck - why should Apple make a mouse anymore either? After all, Logitech makes them too. Of course, there is the small itsy bitsy issue of Steve Jobs touting the unique advantage of Apple being able to seamlessly integrate hardware and software, at every stage of the user experience ... and that only Apple can do this ... that THAT is Apple's unique advantage. Ummm - maybe somebody forgot that. Oopsy bad.
1) It sure sounds like you've forgotten that. People have complained about Apple's mice since the beginning… and I mean the very beginning. It would be naysayers—maybe even you—that would have balked at the idea of the Mac. People that said that the mouse is useless gimmick, that real work is done with the command line, that Apple has lost its way, and would have used the failed Lisa as proof that the GUI and mouse were failed concepts that no one wanted and reduced productivity for "pro" users. History has shown that all those whiners with their prognostication of doom and gloom were wrong.
2) You should look into the W1 chip that Apple introduced 2 months ago. While it's now used in 2 shipping pairs of headphones by Beats and soon to be used in a 3rd pair of headphone with the Apple branding, it's primary function is to intelligently connect and maintain a power-efficient, always-ready paired connection with one or more devices via BT. This means that the current W1 chip, future W-series chips, and horizontally integrated development of their other wireless technologies could be adopted for a future mouse/trackpad, a data-heavy wireless keyboard with a Touch Bar (and possible a T1 chip with Touch ID and Apple Pay), WiFi (IEEE 802.11), and even cellular broadband with their iPhone and iPad (or Mac or Watch). This is not technology in which to scoff at or write off as frivolous.
Wireless audio is a mistake, I don't care who does it. Putting wireless things in your ears is looney, and I'm not even one of those people who believes wireless will cause cancer, this is just bad for so many reasons from a latency and bandwidth perspective that I hope it's a really short lived technology. Bluetooth headphones were always terrible and I refused to buy any after the first bluetooth headset I never got more than 4 hours of use out of. It was much less of a pain in the ass to plug in the earbuds/headphones that came with the phone.
Wireless should be limited to only connecting high bandwidth devices together, not accessories. Wireless mice and keyboards have the exact same latency problems and I also will not use those either.
While I'm not really a fan of Apple's monitors (because they're nothing special compared to any monitor with the same manufacturer's panel) I am a fan of the industrial design of not-ugly computer equipment all with the same color scheme. Right now all my equipment is black. That is by choice. When I bought an iPhone I put a black otterbox on it. I would have loved to not have to, but cell phones are the one thing that you're insane if you don't put any kind of protection on it, even if it's pretty solid to begin with. I dropped my iPad a few years ago and dog-eared one corner of it, the glass didn't pop out or crack, but you can definitely see where the glass is being pushed out by half a millimeter. So I don't want a repeat of that. My previous cell phone I always carried around in a cloth bag/sock thing that came with it.
Which brings me back to the topic. I think Apple is likely to redesign the entire iMac/MacMini/Apple Display thing. Let's say for the sake of argument that they make a USB-C monitor that has a built in Geforce 1080. That would allow an AppleTV/MacMini/iMac/Mac Pro not need a GPU at all. That's a bit of a hard sell for a Mac Pro (Xeon's don't have GPU parts at all, so I imagine that there would be at least one GPU in it) but the others always come with weak GPU's that can't be upgraded. Remember when Apple was supposed to be working on an TV?
Samsung might have been barking up the right tree with it's evolution box for it's TV's, but now replace that idea with a AppleTV->MacMini-iMac upgrade process. Wouldn't it make so much more sense to be able to use the same "screen" and upgrade it from dumb-screen for laptop/Mac Pro use, to AppleTV use if you want to use it as a TV, to a full blown MacMini/iMac with additional USB-c ports to connect your own keyboard/mouse?
(Incidently, Samsung is now getting flack for not releasing a 2016 upgrade kit)
This is not going to fix MacBook Pro as the core product is not right. They should have kept MagSafe, DisplayPort, startup beep, and a Pro keyboard. Instead Apple tries to fix the problem of not having a vision (no... anorexia is not really a vision) by lowering pricing on accessories. The "total cost incl. dongles" and "total weight incl. dongles" still doesn't work.
The MBP 2016 is the IIvi/IIvx of our time, and it is the first time in 30 years that I have declined to get a new mac!
I agree with the MagSafe. That clearly is a big step backward. Safety is of concern as well: What if someone connects four power adapters to the Macbook pro?
Having said that. I disagree that the Macbook Pro lacks having a vision. Well, on the contrary:
I love the Touch Bar. It will help me to max out the Adobe tools.
The dongles are a bit of a pain, for now, but that is going to change once the industry catches up.
My wish for the 2017 Macbook Pro update is (1) to remove the 'Macbook Pro' writing from the screen, and (2) to replace the headphone jack with a MagSafe.
both displays act as Thunderbolt 3 breakout docks for the port-limited notebooks
This is incorrect. Only the 5K monitor is Thunderbolt. The 4K, while sporting USB-C ports, is only USB 2.
Jeez, if true (not doubting you) that's ludicrous, USB2 died years ago why on earth would any manufacturer use USB2 today, it's a POS connection protocol.
both displays act as Thunderbolt 3 breakout docks for the port-limited notebooks
This is incorrect. Only the 5K monitor is Thunderbolt. The 4K, while sporting USB-C ports, is only USB 2.
Jeez, if true (not doubting you) that's ludicrous, USB2 died years ago why on earth would any manufacturer use USB2 today, it's a POS connection protocol.
both displays act as Thunderbolt 3 breakout docks for the port-limited notebooks
This is incorrect. Only the 5K monitor is Thunderbolt. The 4K, while sporting USB-C ports, is only USB 2.
Jeez, if true (not doubting you) that's ludicrous, USB2 died years ago why on earth would any manufacturer use USB2 today, it's a POS connection protocol.
"And three downstream USB-C ports (480 Mbps) offer additional connectivity and power to compatible devices and accessories."
Bit weird.
I had missed that these are USB2, and it is a bit weird. In that case LG would have been better off to put USB-A ports on the monitor for easy keyboard/mouse/whatever connection.
I wonder whether Apple is going to offer an external keyboard with a USB-C connector? Perhaps once the next iMacs come out, since they'd almost certainly feature TB3/USB-C ports. On the other hand Apple has been pushing wireless keyboards for a while now, which would obviate that question. We don't ever buy those, because they lack a numeric keypad and the other extra keys.
I guess this is good but man how did Apple get pricing wrong to being with? Outside of the original iPhone how often has Apple reduced the price on a product only a week or so after it was announced?
Does it really matter.
Yes. It says to me Apple is not on top of its game. I don't know who's responsible for setting prices but they screwed up. I'll bet 3rd parties will be allowed to offer deep discounts on the new MBPs.
Judging that Apple has stated there are record pre-sales for the new MacBook Pro I don't think they're concerned about it selling well.
This happens after every Mac release. People bitch up a storm about all this shit Apple didn't release and yet the product still sells very well. As usual, the bitching is always louder than the praises. People don't come into forums and other outlets to praise a product, they usually only come in to bitch about something. So it seems as if there's something majorly wrong with a newly released product when there isn't.
I remember hearing similar things when the original iMac came out which eliminated all of the old Apple I/O and immediately transitioned over to only USB. You had to get adapters (dongles) then too (I know because I had them). People hate change, especially major changes but I think this is what makes Apple great. They're not afraid to move on, even if it means making major changes. People will still buy the new MacBook Pro and it will sell well. When the iMac comes out people will bitch about it and yet it will still sell. The sun will still raise tomorrow...
I guess this is good but man how did Apple get pricing wrong to being with? Outside of the original iPhone how often has Apple reduced the price on a product only a week or so after it was announced?
Outside the original iPhone, what more successful design has Apple ever introduced?
If this his kind of thing represents Apple getting it wrong, I don't want them to get it right!
I guess this is good but man how did Apple get pricing wrong to being with? Outside of the original iPhone how often has Apple reduced the price on a product only a week or so after it was announced?
1) How does any company ever get something wrong?
2) The original iPhone is an example of Apple getting the price point wrong but I think that happened a couple months after its successful launch. While many on this thread (and elsewhere) have claimed that it makes this adapter price cut worse, lets remember that Apple gave a $100 rebate to everyone that was happily using their original iPhone. It was also a primary product, not an adapter. This makes the iPhone price change under Jobs that occurred because buyer interest dropped too quickly, inarguably worse. And that's before we get to the months at the end of the original iPhone cycle with no sales do no manufacturing, and a switch from the profit sharing to the subsidy model.
3) We've also seen Apple drop the price of the iPods before launch. I believe it was when MS introduced the MS Zune 2 at a lower price point than what Apple was selling for a comparable capacity device.
4) Yes, this is atypical for Apple, but it's neither shocking or foretelling of any systemic issue with Apple's management. My hypothesis is that Apple simply gauged the adapter interest wrong. This isn't like TB using the mDP port interface or the original USB-A port; there are literally thousands upon thousands of products on the market right now that support USB-C from hundreds of companies for an untold number of product types. There's little reason why you need to buy your cables and adapters that support USB-C from Apple. Since I bought the Space Grey MBP I bought black USB-C cables for charging at various locations without having to move cables around. Plus, I hate that the white looks gross even when you take care of it. Speaking of "getting it wrong," remember the black polycarbonate MacBook that came with a white PSU and power cord?
The iPhone price cut was due to them getting the price wrong. There was demand for the product but not enough at the asking price. Jobs went on record as saying Apple had betrayed the trust of its core users. He had previously said that they would ship a million of the devices. It's probable that sales were slacking after a few weeks and they saw that they'd have to announce missing their target. To remedy that situation and activate sales they cut the price by a third. Given that the roll out was scaled across different regions at different times, .the launch at $600 was far from successful in terms of units shipped. The price cut got things rolling again.
Something similar could happen with these new MBPs if sales drop off. The problem is $200 won't be enough to remedy it this time IMO. In a worst case scenario they might just wait till the next revision and say any price reduction was a result of economies of scale, component costs, reduced margins etc. Anything that means they don't have to admit they screwed up.
But as this is the new Apple with 'courage', Tim Cook might just come out and say 'we got it wrong', 'we hear what you are saying and are working to give you what you want'.
That said, it's too early to tell. Schiller wants us to believe the new line is a hot seller (although he chose his words very carefully and didn't give any numbers). I remember in the past that they have bragged about the number of orders. Not this time.
Time will tell. I'm just one person who won't be buying these things. If I'm alone in my stance, that's great for Apple. If I'm not alone though...
Wireless audio is a mistake, I don't care who does it. Putting wireless things in your ears is looney, ... . Bluetooth headphones were always terrible and I refused to buy any after the first bluetooth headset I never got more than 4 hours of use out of. It was much less of a pain in the ass to plug in the earbuds/headphones that came with the phone.``
Comments
It's also possible that Apple wants to clear out their contracted stock of these monitors before they introduce their own in a few months.
You would get some agreement for your theory at MacRumors, though. Maybe go peddle it there.
Let's keep in mind this isn't the first time Apple has pimped a product from a partner/competitor while it was still working on its own product. It's been a week since their amazing event but instead of saying, "Cool. Updated stuff and innovative new tech. None of it fits my current needs but I'm glad they're pushing the industry forward," instead we get a bunch of whiners complaining about how Apple isn't directly catering to their needs. Where do these entitled people get this notion that Apple should do exactly what they want because they've been "loyal customers"?
2) You should look into the W1 chip that Apple introduced 2 months ago. While it's now used in 2 shipping pairs of headphones by Beats and soon to be used in a 3rd pair of headphone with the Apple branding, it's primary function is to intelligently connect and maintain a power-efficient, always-ready paired connection with one or more devices via BT. This means that the current W1 chip, future W-series chips, and horizontally integrated development of their other wireless technologies could be adopted for a future mouse/trackpad, a data-heavy wireless keyboard with a Touch Bar (and possible a T1 chip with Touch ID and Apple Pay), WiFi (IEEE 802.11), and even cellular broadband with their iPhone and iPad (or Mac or Watch). This is not technology in which to scoff at or write off as frivolous.
The mistake Apple made, was to assume we would be happy to pay a premium for a third party product.
>:x
This is not going to fix MacBook Pro as the core product is not right. They should have kept MagSafe, DisplayPort, startup beep, and a Pro keyboard. Instead Apple tries to fix the problem of not having a vision (no... anorexia is not really a vision) by lowering pricing on accessories. The "total cost incl. dongles" and "total weight incl. dongles" still doesn't work.
The MBP 2016 is the IIvi/IIvx of our time, and it is the first time in 30 years that I have declined to get a new mac!
Wireless should be limited to only connecting high bandwidth devices together, not accessories. Wireless mice and keyboards have the exact same latency problems and I also will not use those either.
While I'm not really a fan of Apple's monitors (because they're nothing special compared to any monitor with the same manufacturer's panel) I am a fan of the industrial design of not-ugly computer equipment all with the same color scheme. Right now all my equipment is black. That is by choice. When I bought an iPhone I put a black otterbox on it. I would have loved to not have to, but cell phones are the one thing that you're insane if you don't put any kind of protection on it, even if it's pretty solid to begin with. I dropped my iPad a few years ago and dog-eared one corner of it, the glass didn't pop out or crack, but you can definitely see where the glass is being pushed out by half a millimeter. So I don't want a repeat of that. My previous cell phone I always carried around in a cloth bag/sock thing that came with it.
Which brings me back to the topic. I think Apple is likely to redesign the entire iMac/MacMini/Apple Display thing. Let's say for the sake of argument that they make a USB-C monitor that has a built in Geforce 1080. That would allow an AppleTV/MacMini/iMac/Mac Pro not need a GPU at all. That's a bit of a hard sell for a Mac Pro (Xeon's don't have GPU parts at all, so I imagine that there would be at least one GPU in it) but the others always come with weak GPU's that can't be upgraded. Remember when Apple was supposed to be working on an TV?
Samsung might have been barking up the right tree with it's evolution box for it's TV's, but now replace that idea with a AppleTV->MacMini-iMac upgrade process. Wouldn't it make so much more sense to be able to use the same "screen" and upgrade it from dumb-screen for laptop/Mac Pro use, to AppleTV use if you want to use it as a TV, to a full blown MacMini/iMac with additional USB-c ports to connect your own keyboard/mouse?
(Incidently, Samsung is now getting flack for not releasing a 2016 upgrade kit)
Having said that. I disagree that the Macbook Pro lacks having a vision. Well, on the contrary:
My wish for the 2017 Macbook Pro update is (1) to remove the 'Macbook Pro' writing from the screen, and (2) to replace the headphone jack with a MagSafe.
>:x
"And three downstream USB-C ports (480 Mbps) offer additional connectivity and power to compatible devices and accessories."
Bit weird.
I wonder whether Apple is going to offer an external keyboard with a USB-C connector? Perhaps once the next iMacs come out, since they'd almost certainly feature TB3/USB-C ports. On the other hand Apple has been pushing wireless keyboards for a while now, which would obviate that question. We don't ever buy those, because they lack a numeric keypad and the other extra keys.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/11/02/phil-schiller-new-macbook-pro-has-more-orders-from-apple-than-any-other-pro-model-ever
This happens after every Mac release. People bitch up a storm about all this shit Apple didn't release and yet the product still sells very well. As usual, the bitching is always louder than the praises. People don't come into forums and other outlets to praise a product, they usually only come in to bitch about something. So it seems as if there's something majorly wrong with a newly released product when there isn't.
I remember hearing similar things when the original iMac came out which eliminated all of the old Apple I/O and immediately transitioned over to only USB. You had to get adapters (dongles) then too (I know because I had them). People hate change, especially major changes but I think this is what makes Apple great. They're not afraid to move on, even if it means making major changes. People will still buy the new MacBook Pro and it will sell well. When the iMac comes out people will bitch about it and yet it will still sell. The sun will still raise tomorrow...
If this his kind of thing represents Apple getting it wrong, I don't want them to get it right!
2) The original iPhone is an example of Apple getting the price point wrong but I think that happened a couple months after its successful launch. While many on this thread (and elsewhere) have claimed that it makes this adapter price cut worse, lets remember that Apple gave a $100 rebate to everyone that was happily using their original iPhone. It was also a primary product, not an adapter. This makes the iPhone price change under Jobs that occurred because buyer interest dropped too quickly, inarguably worse. And that's before we get to the months at the end of the original iPhone cycle with no sales do no manufacturing, and a switch from the profit sharing to the subsidy model.
3) We've also seen Apple drop the price of the iPods before launch. I believe it was when MS introduced the MS Zune 2 at a lower price point than what Apple was selling for a comparable capacity device.
4) Yes, this is atypical for Apple, but it's neither shocking or foretelling of any systemic issue with Apple's management. My hypothesis is that Apple simply gauged the adapter interest wrong. This isn't like TB using the mDP port interface or the original USB-A port; there are literally thousands upon thousands of products on the market right now that support USB-C from hundreds of companies for an untold number of product types. There's little reason why you need to buy your cables and adapters that support USB-C from Apple. Since I bought the Space Grey MBP I bought black USB-C cables for charging at various locations without having to move cables around. Plus, I hate that the white looks gross even when you take care of it. Speaking of "getting it wrong," remember the black polycarbonate MacBook that came with a white PSU and power cord?
Something similar could happen with these new MBPs if sales drop off. The problem is $200 won't be enough to remedy it this time IMO. In a worst case scenario they might just wait till the next revision and say any price reduction was a result of economies of scale, component costs, reduced margins etc. Anything that means they don't have to admit they screwed up.
But as this is the new Apple with 'courage', Tim Cook might just come out and say 'we got it wrong', 'we hear what you are saying and are working to give you what you want'.
That said, it's too early to tell. Schiller wants us to believe the new line is a hot seller (although he chose his words very carefully and didn't give any numbers). I remember in the past that they have bragged about the number of orders. Not this time.
Time will tell. I'm just one person who won't be buying these things. If I'm alone in my stance, that's great for Apple. If I'm not alone though...