I really don't know who is right. I bought a new MacBook Pro because I love these and think the touch bar will make things better for me. I do like some aspects of what Microsoft has done and could see certain scenarios where touch screen like that would be beneficial. Just not overly important for what I do.
Seriously, go to a Microsoft store and try one. It's pretty damn awesome and works well as both a touch surface and iMac like computer. I have loved Apple products, but it seems they have just way too much hubris now. They think if they can't do it, it cannot be done.
sorry, but no. that thing sucks because even the raised position is so low to the table -- you have to look down at it, rather than forward. as a non-drawer that sucks for normal use. not ergonomic at all. and can you mount it on a VESA arm? (i use my iMacs arm-mounted).
I don't really see how looking down on it is an issue. Most people look down on laptops. In a raised position I think chair and desk height can remedy the position aspects but position itself is quite a preference based thing. We understand ergonomics but often prefer positions that aren't good for us.
I think the problems people have with the MB pro is also related to the keynote.
Somehow this big company can only come up (after 2 to 3 years) with a new MB Pro model? What about the other Mac models which are in need of an update? Why can't they create a monitor themselves? They don't have to make a profit on everything. It is part of the Mac line. Always big words about design, and now you may place an ugly LG monitor in the middle of your desk.
Maybe they need to rethink the whole Mac line. What about the TouchBar on other Mac models? If it will only be available on the MB Pro top models, it will be a gimmick. You might expect that if they think of new input methods for the Mac, they should think of how this works for all models.
The problem is not not having a touchscreen. The problem is they don't come up with a better alternative.
Why a Touch Bar? Why not add a screen to the trackpad? It already has force multitouch and haptic feedback and it's even bigger on the new MB's. It could do all the things the TouchBar does but it has much more space (screen) available. It can give all kinds of visible feedback while making gestures, etc. And why not add Apple Pencil support to it? Ultimately the trackpad is an iOS like device as a subsystem. They have the hardware, touch-id, etc. And such a visual trackpad can also be a separate device for the other Mac models.
Such a thing would create a synergy between iOS and the Mac and can work for all Macs. And it's the synergy that people are now missing.
And about the MB ports: My MB Pro has: Magsafe, 2x USB, 2x TB, 3.5 (analog + digital), HDMI and SD reader. The new MB Pro: 4x USB-C/TB and 3.5 analog.
This step is to big for most people. Not only did they replace the 2 USB and 2 TB ports for 4 USB-C/TB, which is fine, but also removed all the other ones. If they just kept the 3.5 (analog + digital), HDMI and SD reader this was less an issue.
Seriously, go to a Microsoft store and try one. It's pretty damn awesome and works well as both a touch surface and iMac like computer. I have loved Apple products, but it seems they have just way too much hubris now. They think if they can't do it, it cannot be done.
sorry, but no. that thing sucks because even the raised position is so low to the table -- you have to look down at it, rather than forward. as a non-drawer that sucks for normal use. not ergonomic at all. and can you mount it on a VESA arm? (i use my iMacs arm-mounted).
It seems to me it's as high as an iMac screen. And it can be raised more. But more importantly, it can be lowered too. Perfect for drawing, no over the air reaching ...
We have to wait another few years before Apple comes to his senses (like they eventually made bigger iPhone screens)
Such a pity that Apple didn't design this. I'm not ready yet to switch over to Microsoft.
Don't switch indeed. Not perfect for drawing because of the brush latency. Apple has perfectly resolved the latency problem with the iPad Pro. Apple Pencil draws so naturally that you don't even notice an eye-blink of latency. On that foldable-desktop-computer the brush latency is apparent. A mere touch screen is not enough for drawing. That touch screen must also support high resolution tracking of the drawing tool. Apple has achieved that breakthrough with the iPad Pro, it requires a special drawing tool for seamless drawing experience, which is the Apple Pencil, not a mere mortal finger or a mere stylus.
And when larger oxide-backed displays optimized for Pencil input become available at Apple quantities, maybe we'll see larger iPad Pros, even with adjustable stands.
Microsoft can get away with their monster because they don't have to prepare for large sales numbers. Are they even IGZO monitors?
And we may see the return of Cinema Displays, once IGZO manufacturing is up at the necessary level to supply Apple.
I understand Apple's push for the Type-C, besides they were the ones who made USB popular. But it would've not hurt to also include a standard USB. If standard USB is so obsolete then why did the iPhone 7 have it and not have a Type-C? Everyone is going to carry a USB C to A dongle.
As for the Flash Card slot, every other professional I know has a 250GB or 500GB card in there and uses it to store photos, video, or code. The internal drive is used for apps and scratch disk, and the Flash as a library.
It is very useful to have a computer without dongles and external drives hanging off of it. I am already placing an order for one, but I dreading carrying a HDMI, USB, and an external drive.
As for the Microsoft Surface Studio. I spent a good hour one-on-one with a Microsoft Studio expert and was using it as a design tool, the "expert" was not a professional designer nor an artist, he couldn't answer basic design questions, he was just a Microsoft employee with a different color shirt. My overall impression is it's a gimmick. The screen can't be tilted, it adjusts position as you drag it up or down, the mechanism is great but the not thought out properly. The wheel, is confusing and counter productive, a time waster. And I hate the fact that Windows continuously displays the stylus's pointer on the screen, it doesn't happen in real life, why put it there?! The stylus has the most issues. For one it can't draw a straight line at low speed; the second, and this is a big one, there seems to be a switch in the tip that has to be pressed before it can start drawing, so you always have to press a little hard to get a faint line and it becomes hard to draw naturally. Also there seems to be very little light pressure range and more on the heavy side. Most my pen lines happen at low pressure because most natural media is used that way.
The Apple Pencil is definitely better, I think the Surface Studio may appeal to some natural media artists, but then again why not just use natural media. I believe, had Apple attempted it, it would've been a hit.
Here's sincerely hoping that folks like Schiller read this blog.
I think the problems people have with the MB pro is also related to the keynote.
Somehow this big company can only come up (after 2 to 3 years) with a new MB Pro model? What about the other Mac models which are in need of an update? Why can't they create a monitor themselves? They don't have to make a profit on everything. It is part of the Mac line. Always big words about design, and now you may place an ugly LG monitor in the middle of your desk.
Maybe they need to rethink the whole Mac line. What about the TouchBar on other Mac models? If it will only be available on the MB Pro top models, it will be a gimmick. You might expect that if the think of new input methods for the Mac, they should think how this works for al models.
The problem is not not having a touchscreen. The problem is they don't have a better alternative.
Why a Touch Bar? Why not add a screen to the trackpad? It already has force multitouch and haptic feedback and it's even bigger on the new MB's. It could do all the things the TouchBar does but with much more available space. It can give all kinds of visible feedback while making gestures etc. And why not add Apple Pencil support to it? Ultimately the trackpad is an iOS like device as a subsystem. They have the hardware, touch-id, etc. And such a visual trackpad can also be a separate device for the other Mac models.
Such a thing would create a synergy between iOS and the Mac and can work for all Macs. And it's the synergy that people are now missing.
And about the MB ports: My MB Pro has: Magsafe, 2x USB, 2x TB, 3.5 (analog + digital), HDMI and SD reader. The new MB Pro: 4x USB-C/TB and 3.5 analog.
This step is to big for most people. Not only did they replace the 2 USB and 2 TB ports for 4 USB-C/TB, which is fine, but also removed all the other ones. If they just kept the 3.5 (analog + digital), HDMI and SD reader this was less an issue.
The Touch Bar took approximately 8 years from concept to production
So what? The placement of the Touch Bar (and other issues) therefore get etched in stone? Many things change in the computing environment in eight years, as we all well know.
I don't think you -- or anyone here -- really answered his questions/ concerns. For example, he asked "Why a Touch Bar? Why not add a screen to the trackpad?" which is think are valid questions. Does anyone have a serious response instead of just a down-vote?
If anyone gets an interview with Phil please ask him if it would kill apple to release a vague roadmap of future mac pros and iMacs and minis. Like "are these models in development?"
As for the Microsoft Surface Studio. I spent a good hour one-on-one with a Microsoft Studio expert and was using it as a design tool, the "expert" was not a professional designer nor an artist, he couldn't answer basic design questions, he was just a Microsoft employee with a different color shirt. My overall impression is it's a gimmick. The screen can't be tilted, it adjusts position as you drag it up or down, the mechanism is great but the not thought out properly. The wheel, is confusing and counter productive, a time waster. And I hate the fact that Windows continuously displays the stylus's pointer on the screen, it doesn't happen in real life, why put it there?! The stylus has the most issues. For one it can't draw a straight line at low speed; the second, and this is a big one, there seems to be a switch in the tip that has to be pressed before it can start drawing, so you always have to press a little hard to get a faint line and it becomes hard to draw naturally. Also there seems to be very little light pressure range and more on the heavy side. Most my pen lines happen at low pressure because most natural media is used that way.
The Apple Pencil is definitely better, I think the Surface Studio may appeal to some natural media artists, but then again why not just use natural media. I believe, had Apple attempted it, it would've been a hit.
As I understand, one cannot both elevate the screen and tilt it at once. In order to change the tilt, you need to change also the height. Keep the tilt, change the height, keep the height change the tilt, these movements are not possible. Is that right?
I understand Apple's push for the Type-C, besides they were the ones who made USB popular. But it would've not hurt to also include a standard USB. If standard USB is so obsolete then why did the iPhone 7 have it and not have a Type-C? Everyone is going to carry a USB C to A dongle.
As for the Flash Card slot, every other professional I know has a 250GB or 500GB card in there and uses it to store photos, video, or code. The internal drive is used for apps and scratch disk, and the Flash as a library.
It is very useful to have a computer without dongles and external drives hanging off of it. I am already placing an order for one, but I dreading carrying a HDMI, USB, and an external drive.
As for the Microsoft Surface Studio. I spent a good hour one-on-one with a Microsoft Studio expert and was using it as a design tool, the "expert" was not a professional designer nor an artist, he couldn't answer basic design questions, he was just a Microsoft employee with a different color shirt. My overall impression is it's a gimmick. The screen can't be tilted, it adjusts position as you drag it up or down, the mechanism is great but the not thought out properly. The wheel, is confusing and counter productive, a time waster. And I hate the fact that Windows continuously displays the stylus's pointer on the screen, it doesn't happen in real life, why put it there?! The stylus has the most issues. For one it can't draw a straight line at low speed; the second, and this is a big one, there seems to be a switch in the tip that has to be pressed before it can start drawing, so you always have to press a little hard to get a faint line and it becomes hard to draw naturally. Also there seems to be very little light pressure range and more on the heavy side. Most my pen lines happen at low pressure because most natural media is used that way.
The Apple Pencil is definitely better, I think the Surface Studio may appeal to some natural media artists, but then again why not just use natural media. I believe, had Apple attempted it, it would've been a hit.
If you mean include a "standard" USB port on the laptop, yes it would hurt the design very much. The edge all the way around would have to be about 4mm thicker just to accommodate one lousy obsolete port (without destroying symmetry), which would add perhaps an ounce of dead weight in solid aluminum. Ive and company are not going to sell out all their weight and material saving for an ancient port that can be adapted to with a simple adapter.
I think the problems people have with the MB pro is also related to the keynote.
Somehow this big company can only come up (after 2 to 3 years) with a new MB Pro model? What about the other Mac models which are in need of an update? Why can't they create a monitor themselves? They don't have to make a profit on everything. It is part of the Mac line. Always big words about design, and now you may place an ugly LG monitor in the middle of your desk.
Maybe they need to rethink the whole Mac line. What about the TouchBar on other Mac models? If it will only be available on the MB Pro top models, it will be a gimmick. You might expect that if the think of new input methods for the Mac, they should think how this works for al models.
The problem is not not having a touchscreen. The problem is they don't have a better alternative.
Why a Touch Bar? Why not add a screen to the trackpad? It already has force multitouch and haptic feedback and it's even bigger on the new MB's. It could do all the things the TouchBar does but with much more available space. It can give all kinds of visible feedback while making gestures etc. And why not add Apple Pencil support to it? Ultimately the trackpad is an iOS like device as a subsystem. They have the hardware, touch-id, etc. And such a visual trackpad can also be a separate device for the other Mac models.
Such a thing would create a synergy between iOS and the Mac and can work for all Macs. And it's the synergy that people are now missing.
And about the MB ports: My MB Pro has: Magsafe, 2x USB, 2x TB, 3.5 (analog + digital), HDMI and SD reader. The new MB Pro: 4x USB-C/TB and 3.5 analog.
This step is to big for most people. Not only did they replace the 2 USB and 2 TB ports for 4 USB-C/TB, which is fine, but also removed all the other ones. If they just kept the 3.5 (analog + digital), HDMI and SD reader this was less an issue.
The Touch Bar took approximately 8 years from concept to production
So what? The placement of the Touch Bar (and other issues) therefore get etched in stone? Many things change in the computing environment in eight years, as we all well know.
I don't think you -- or anyone here -- really answered his questions/ concerns. For example, he asked "Why a Touch Bar? Why not add a screen to the trackpad?" which is think are valid questions. Does anyone have a serious response instead of just a down-vote?
i would think they tried that and postponed or eliminated the idea for good reason. Maybe I should go back and downvote him for not assuming that the engineers know what they're doing, now you mention it.
Seriously, go to a Microsoft store and try one. It's pretty damn awesome and works well as both a touch surface and iMac like computer. I have loved Apple products, but it seems they have just way too much hubris now. They think if they can't do it, it cannot be done.
sorry, but no. that thing sucks because even the raised position is so low to the table -- you have to look down at it, rather than forward. as a non-drawer that sucks for normal use. not ergonomic at all. and can you mount it on a VESA arm? (i use my iMacs arm-mounted).
It can be more upright. This is in a more hybrid position. This is what it looks like from a seated position (or full height for standing).
The top of the screen is at eye level. The surface dial is very nice. I'll probably get one for the Surface Book. Along with a replacement pen since I lost mine. Microsoft did a great job for folks that benefit from direct manipulation. All the Jeff Han multitouch stuff that was a sensation at TED is now reality in a (soon to be) shipping product...especially that dial user interface which is quite nice since it gives you that tactile manipulation coupled with a dynamic UI.
I think the surface product line from Microsoft is very well done from what I've seen and nice for the set of users where direct manipulation is far more intuitive and powerful than more traditional input methods.
For the MacOS I think that tighter integration between the iPad and the iMac would be better with the iPad serving as a secondary display and input device for direct manipulation tasks. For example, if you could use the iPad Pro for detailed direct manipulation with a pen at high zoom (loupe) and see the full image as it is being edited on the iMac screen. There are some apps that can do this but they appear to be laggy.
I think the problems people have with the MB pro is also related to the keynote.
Somehow this big company can only come up (after 2 to 3 years) with a new MB Pro model? What about the other Mac models which are in need of an update? Why can't they create a monitor themselves? They don't have to make a profit on everything. It is part of the Mac line. Always big words about design, and now you may place an ugly LG monitor in the middle of your desk.
Maybe they need to rethink the whole Mac line. What about the TouchBar on other Mac models? If it will only be available on the MB Pro top models, it will be a gimmick. You might expect that if the think of new input methods for the Mac, they should think how this works for al models.
The problem is not not having a touchscreen. The problem is they don't have a better alternative.
Why a Touch Bar? Why not add a screen to the trackpad? It already has force multitouch and haptic feedback and it's even bigger on the new MB's. It could do all the things the TouchBar does but with much more available space. It can give all kinds of visible feedback while making gestures etc. And why not add Apple Pencil support to it? Ultimately the trackpad is an iOS like device as a subsystem. They have the hardware, touch-id, etc. And such a visual trackpad can also be a separate device for the other Mac models.
Such a thing would create a synergy between iOS and the Mac and can work for all Macs. And it's the synergy that people are now missing.
And about the MB ports: My MB Pro has: Magsafe, 2x USB, 2x TB, 3.5 (analog + digital), HDMI and SD reader. The new MB Pro: 4x USB-C/TB and 3.5 analog.
This step is to big for most people. Not only did they replace the 2 USB and 2 TB ports for 4 USB-C/TB, which is fine, but also removed all the other ones. If they just kept the 3.5 (analog + digital), HDMI and SD reader this was less an issue.
The Touch Bar took approximately 8 years from concept to production
So what? The placement of the Touch Bar (and other issues) therefore get etched in stone? Many things change in the computing environment in eight years, as we all well know.
I don't think you -- or anyone here -- really answered his questions/ concerns. For example, he asked "Why a Touch Bar? Why not add a screen to the trackpad?" which is think are valid questions. Does anyone have a serious response instead of just a down-vote?
Well, it could be that most here are not UI / UX designers and so anything said would be speculation. So, since you asked, some speculation from my side: - The track pad is further from view of the screen than Touch Bar, so you have to look more away from screen. - It is easier to use your fingers to go "up" from the keyboard than down to the track pad to hit specific areas of Touch Bar - Would putting the functionality of the Touch Bar into the track pad make it very difficult to do "track pad things" at the same time? - It keeps the input methods focused on their specific tasks - track pad for cursor & gestures - keyboard for text - Touch Bar for context sensitive controls
My view: I don't think anyone can say with any confidence if it will be great or flop. This is the type of thing that will take 2 years to know for sure one way or the other. Apple has certainly made a big bet on it. A pure touch screen would have been both easier and less controversial.
Compared with other companies though, Apple has the best track record for the research into UI / UX and turning it into successful products, so I would give them the benefit of the doubt until real data comes in.
As for the Microsoft Surface Studio, I think the concept is very interesting. Compared with previous MS work, I think this shows their best work so far at developing unique hardware. They might have a very good niche for creatives that desire this type of direct input.
As others have said, you need to wait for the real user reviews and feedback to come in to know how it does in the real world.
However, it is funny how Apple is criticized for price, when the Surface Studio starts out at $3K for the base configuration, not including the wheel or a stylus. I am sure for the creatives for which this is intended, if it helps them do their jobs better, that price will not be an issue.
Even if quite successful in its target market, it will only be a niche device.
Seriously, go to a Microsoft store and try one. It's pretty damn awesome and works well as both a touch surface and iMac like computer. I have loved Apple products, but it seems they have just way too much hubris now. They think if they can't do it, it cannot be done.
I tried one. It's gimmicky with a narrow niche use case for illustrators. That's about it. You could use one all day for everything you do. It's not a general use machine, or if it is... it's using it in the standard upright position where touch doesn't make sense.
I think the problems people have with the MB pro is also related to the keynote.
Somehow this big company can only come up (after 2 to 3 years) with a new MB Pro model? What about the other Mac models which are in need of an update? Why can't they create a monitor themselves? They don't have to make a profit on everything. It is part of the Mac line. Always big words about design, and now you may place an ugly LG monitor in the middle of your desk.
Maybe they need to rethink the whole Mac line. What about the TouchBar on other Mac models? If it will only be available on the MB Pro top models, it will be a gimmick. You might expect that if the think of new input methods for the Mac, they should think how this works for al models.
The problem is not not having a touchscreen. The problem is they don't have a better alternative.
Why a Touch Bar? Why not add a screen to the trackpad? It already has force multitouch and haptic feedback and it's even bigger on the new MB's. It could do all the things the TouchBar does but with much more available space. It can give all kinds of visible feedback while making gestures etc. And why not add Apple Pencil support to it? Ultimately the trackpad is an iOS like device as a subsystem. They have the hardware, touch-id, etc. And such a visual trackpad can also be a separate device for the other Mac models.
Such a thing would create a synergy between iOS and the Mac and can work for all Macs. And it's the synergy that people are now missing.
And about the MB ports: My MB Pro has: Magsafe, 2x USB, 2x TB, 3.5 (analog + digital), HDMI and SD reader. The new MB Pro: 4x USB-C/TB and 3.5 analog.
This step is to big for most people. Not only did they replace the 2 USB and 2 TB ports for 4 USB-C/TB, which is fine, but also removed all the other ones. If they just kept the 3.5 (analog + digital), HDMI and SD reader this was less an issue.
The Touch Bar took approximately 8 years from concept to production
So what? The placement of the Touch Bar (and other issues) therefore get etched in stone? Many things change in the computing environment in eight years, as we all well know.
I don't think you -- or anyone here -- really answered his questions/ concerns. For example, he asked "Why a Touch Bar? Why not add a screen to the trackpad?" which is think are valid questions. Does anyone have a serious response instead of just a down-vote?
Well, it could be that most here are not UI / UX designers and so anything said would be speculation. So, since you asked, some speculation from my side: - The track pad is further from view of the screen than Touch Bar, so you have to look more away from screen. - It is easier to use your fingers to go "up" from the keyboard than down to the track pad to hit specific areas of Touch Bar - Would putting the functionality of the Touch Bar into the track pad make it very difficult to do "track pad things" at the same time? - It keeps the input methods focused on their specific tasks - track pad for cursor & gestures - keyboard for text - Touch Bar for context sensitive controls
My view: I don't think anyone can say with any confidence if it will be great or flop. This is the type of thing that will take 2 years to know for sure one way or the other. Apple has certainly made a big bet on it. A pure touch screen would have been both easier and less controversial.
Compared with other companies though, Apple has the best track record for the research into UI / UX and turning it into successful products, so I would give them the benefit of the doubt until real data comes in.
With the mouse cursor one can perform very precise data selections and manipulations very quickly.
Now imagine that cursor is as big as a human hand in 1:1 size, and try to select some files on a cluttered desktop and move them into a folder with that hand size cursor...
The human hand is just a very bad substitute to a mouse cursor. This has been proven more than half a century ago with the invention of the mouse. Touch screens and styli exist since the early mainframe terminals. The mouse has superseded all of these early interfaces.
Trying to substitute the human hand to the mouse is like trying to repair a Swiss watch with bare fingers without using any tools. We're tool making animals, what's wrong with using a tool for data manipulation?
Actually a touch screen Mac is very plausible thanks to Force Touch. Even with Force Touch, the hand would be a very bad substitute to the mouse cursor. Force Touch excels in guiding the cursor during the MouseStillDown event and it is best to keep it as is, i.e. as a trackpad feature.
Seriously, go to a Microsoft store and try one. It's pretty damn awesome and works well as both a touch surface and iMac like computer. I have loved Apple products, but it seems they have just way too much hubris now. They think if they can't do it, it cannot be done.
sorry, but no. that thing sucks because even the raised position is so low to the table -- you have to look down at it, rather than forward. as a non-drawer that sucks for normal use. not ergonomic at all. and can you mount it on a VESA arm? (i use my iMacs arm-mounted).
It can be more upright. This is in a more hybrid position. This is what it looks like from a seated position (or full height for standing).
The top of the screen is at eye level. The surface dial is very nice. I'll probably get one for the Surface Book. Along with a replacement pen since I lost mine. Microsoft did a great job for folks that benefit from direct manipulation. All the Jeff Han multitouch stuff that was a sensation at TED is now reality in a (soon to be) shipping product...especially that dial user interface which is quite nice since it gives you that tactile manipulation coupled with a dynamic UI.
I think the surface product line from Microsoft is very well done from what I've seen and nice for the set of users where direct manipulation is far more intuitive and powerful than more traditional input methods.
For the MacOS I think that tighter integration between the iPad and the iMac would be better with the iPad serving as a secondary display and input device for direct manipulation tasks. For example, if you could use the iPad Pro for detailed direct manipulation with a pen at high zoom (loupe) and see the full image as it is being edited on the iMac screen. There are some apps that can do this but they appear to be laggy.
Have an erogonomist or chiropractor look at these photos and you'll immediately see the issue. In the first photo, the women is looking down at the screen. Her neck is slightly bent and her gaze is looking down. To look directly at the screen (instead of glancing) the head would have to be tilted further forward, exerting strain on the neck. This is OK for momentary interaction, but not long term use.
The second photo is even worse. While the women's eyes are at the proper position and her neck is in a natrural position, her arm is hanging out trying to interact with a vertical surface. Now I just went painting this weekend, and when my arm is held out unsupported, I have VERY poor accuracy. My arm shakes and I cannot control a paintbrush. To compensate, I need to rest my elbow on something, or stand which allows the wrist to be in a natural drawing position.
Then just look at the woman's back! You can see that it is bent and trying to accommodate the hanging weight in front of her body. Again, you could do this momentarily, but not long-term use.
Now a more natural position would be the drafting table at a shallow Angie. But then you'd have a 28" monitor all over your desk with no keyboard available. So now you need a completely clean desk at all times and don't plan on using a mouse or keyboard when in drawing mode. Don't plan on having a usable physical desktop.
This tells me that most people will not use this in drawing mode so it's just an expensive iMac.
its not about not innovating fast Phill....
its about innovating fast in the right direction...
and its about not limiting the user...
! choice ! not dogma !
As for the Microsoft Surface Studio, I think the concept is very interesting. Compared with previous MS work, I think this shows their best work so far at developing unique hardware. They might have a very good niche for creatives that desire this type of direct input.
Seriously, go to a Microsoft store and try one. It's pretty damn awesome and works well as both a touch surface and iMac like computer. I have loved Apple products, but it seems they have just way too much hubris now. They think if they can't do it, it cannot be done.
sorry, but no. that thing sucks because even the raised position is so low to the table -- you have to look down at it, rather than forward. as a non-drawer that sucks for normal use. not ergonomic at all. and can you mount it on a VESA arm? (i use my iMacs arm-mounted).
She is standing up. A chair would change things.
I do think reaching out to touch a computer monitor would be hard on the back though.
It is a standing desk..... if just gave her a chair she would be lower but it would be not be ergonomic since her hands would now be lower than the desk and not a good situation ergonomically. My monitor sits at the proper height about 1.5 arm lengths from the monitor (considerably higher than Microsofts product here). The Microsoft product shown here is interesting, but really should not be used for anyone using the computer for long periods or not using it as an artist (not saying laptops are any better).
Touch screen is for things that NEED pen-ing, penciling, or stylus-ing, for any other form of interfacing with a computer it's the good old keyboard and mouse. Some people may not mind the distracting finger print smears of simple "touch" but they are unbearable for me and many people. So using a stylus and keyboard for the iPad Pro is both annoying and less productive although my typing with a stylus between fingers has improved slightly.
If the Microsoft Surface of any variation floats your boat, then sail away happy and quit trying to "predict" Apple's future and/or p*ss on somebody else's parade.
Took a look at the surface studio myself over the weekend, and will admit to being impressed. Not perfect-- same mirror effect as the iMacs, the tilt mechanism does offer a range of positions, but VESA mounting is important to me, and the pen was done in a really half-ass way when it comes to the user interface-- things like scrolling on a web page as a stupid example.
That said, 28" is cheaper than a 27" iMac and a cleaner look.
But my favorite thing was their wireless keyboard has a built in number pad...
Comments
Microsoft can get away with their monster because they don't have to prepare for large sales numbers. Are they even IGZO monitors?
And we may see the return of Cinema Displays, once IGZO manufacturing is up at the necessary level to supply Apple.
So what? The placement of the Touch Bar (and other issues) therefore get etched in stone? Many things change in the computing environment in eight years, as we all well know.
I don't think you -- or anyone here -- really answered his questions/ concerns. For example, he asked "Why a Touch Bar? Why not add a screen to the trackpad?" which is think are valid questions. Does anyone have a serious response instead of just a down-vote?
THX
It can be more upright. This is in a more hybrid position. This is what it looks like from a seated position (or full height for standing).
The top of the screen is at eye level. The surface dial is very nice. I'll probably get one for the Surface Book. Along with a replacement pen since I lost mine. Microsoft did a great job for folks that benefit from direct manipulation. All the Jeff Han multitouch stuff that was a sensation at TED is now reality in a (soon to be) shipping product...especially that dial user interface which is quite nice since it gives you that tactile manipulation coupled with a dynamic UI.
https://www.ted.com/talks/jeff_han_demos_his_breakthrough_touchscreen
I think the surface product line from Microsoft is very well done from what I've seen and nice for the set of users where direct manipulation is far more intuitive and powerful than more traditional input methods.
For the MacOS I think that tighter integration between the iPad and the iMac would be better with the iPad serving as a secondary display and input device for direct manipulation tasks. For example, if you could use the iPad Pro for detailed direct manipulation with a pen at high zoom (loupe) and see the full image as it is being edited on the iMac screen. There are some apps that can do this but they appear to be laggy.
- The track pad is further from view of the screen than Touch Bar, so you have to look more away from screen.
- It is easier to use your fingers to go "up" from the keyboard than down to the track pad to hit specific areas of Touch Bar
- Would putting the functionality of the Touch Bar into the track pad make it very difficult to do "track pad things" at the same time?
- It keeps the input methods focused on their specific tasks - track pad for cursor & gestures - keyboard for text - Touch Bar for context sensitive controls
My view: I don't think anyone can say with any confidence if it will be great or flop. This is the type of thing that will take 2 years to know for sure one way or the other. Apple has certainly made a big bet on it. A pure touch screen would have been both easier and less controversial.
Compared with other companies though, Apple has the best track record for the research into UI / UX and turning it into successful products, so I would give them the benefit of the doubt until real data comes in.
As others have said, you need to wait for the real user reviews and feedback to come in to know how it does in the real world.
However, it is funny how Apple is criticized for price, when the Surface Studio starts out at $3K for the base configuration, not including the wheel or a stylus. I am sure for the creatives for which this is intended, if it helps them do their jobs better, that price will not be an issue.
Even if quite successful in its target market, it will only be a niche device.
Now imagine that cursor is as big as a human hand in 1:1 size, and try to select some files on a cluttered desktop and move them into a folder with that hand size cursor...
The human hand is just a very bad substitute to a mouse cursor. This has been proven more than half a century ago with the invention of the mouse. Touch screens and styli exist since the early mainframe terminals. The mouse has superseded all of these early interfaces.
Trying to substitute the human hand to the mouse is like trying to repair a Swiss watch with bare fingers without using any tools. We're tool making animals, what's wrong with using a tool for data manipulation?
Actually a touch screen Mac is very plausible thanks to Force Touch. Even with Force Touch, the hand would be a very bad substitute to the mouse cursor. Force Touch excels in guiding the cursor during the MouseStillDown event and it is best to keep it as is, i.e. as a trackpad feature.
The second photo is even worse. While the women's eyes are at the proper position and her neck is in a natrural position, her arm is hanging out trying to interact with a vertical surface. Now I just went painting this weekend, and when my arm is held out unsupported, I have VERY poor accuracy. My arm shakes and I cannot control a paintbrush. To compensate, I need to rest my elbow on something, or stand which allows the wrist to be in a natural drawing position.
Then just look at the woman's back! You can see that it is bent and trying to accommodate the hanging weight in front of her body. Again, you could do this momentarily, but not long-term use.
Now a more natural position would be the drafting table at a shallow Angie. But then you'd have a 28" monitor all over your desk with no keyboard available. So now you need a completely clean desk at all times and don't plan on using a mouse or keyboard when in drawing mode. Don't plan on having a usable physical desktop.
This tells me that most people will not use this in drawing mode so it's just an expensive iMac.
That said, 28" is cheaper than a 27" iMac and a cleaner look.
But my favorite thing was their wireless keyboard has a built in number pad...