Apple SVP Phil Schiller addresses Touch Bar, other MacBook Pro concerns

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 92
    There's a huge win in the much-faster SSD.  With four (4!) thunderbolt ports, it really has a high end possibility for mobile video editing.  I would definitely get one with FCP if I were in that business.  I must say, though, I don't really want to buy anything.  I'm waiting for the 2nd generation on the computers and the third on the watch.  Apple needs to be a more new-technology driven company if they want value buyers to be more quick on the uptake, with the prices they are insisting on.  With a higher cost, the new stuff has to be better and last longer, so no one is going to grab a Skylake-based computer if Kaby Lake is coming along with a 12 percent jump.  That is not nothing, and all you have to do is wait.
  • Reply 62 of 92
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    brucemc said:

    Compared with other companies though, Apple has the best track record for the research into UI / UX and turning it into successful products, ...
    Yeah, and then iOS 7 happened. It's anyone's guess as to how much of that historic Apple research Jony Ive allows into the current products, or even if the people with the accumulated knowledge are even still at the company. I mean FFS, he put the print marketing people on the GUI re-design project for iOS 7, rather than the people who actually had been doing UI design at Apple.
  • Reply 63 of 92
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    Still no statement about the Mac Pro?
  • Reply 64 of 92

    But my favorite thing was their wireless keyboard has a built in number pad...
    I never use a built in number pad and the wider keyboard pushes out the trackpad or mouse into a less ergonomic friendly position.  
  • Reply 65 of 92
    "[T]his is the best notebook that can be made with the greatest technology."

    Nonsense and other words.  If they'd get past this obsession with thin, they could have made a laptop that would support more than 16 GB, better graphics, longer battery life, etc.  

    And the price is simply a rip-off - the same 16 GB RAM/256 GB for 20% more?  Absurd.  
    entropys
  • Reply 66 of 92
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,903member
    dogman said:
    How do you justify such high prices? I was going to replace my 2012 MBA, but not that those prices!
    I bought a Mac PowerBook G4 867 12" in 2003 for $2400 customized to my liking.  I just priced a new 15-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar customized to my liking priced at $2599. Considering the new MPB is around 30+ times faster, has a bigger, better screen, faster everything, is actually LIGHTER than the Powerbook,  I figure it's worth the $200 increase from 13 years ago.

    edited November 2016 watto_cobra
  • Reply 67 of 92
    welshdog said:
    I bought a Mac PowerBook G4 867 12" in 2003 for $2400 customized to my liking.  I just priced a new 15-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar customized to my liking priced at $2599. Considering the new MPB is around 30+ times faster, has a bigger, better screen, faster everything, is actually LIGHTER than the Powerbook,  I figure it's worth the $200 increase from 13 years ago.

    If you consider the U.S. rate of inflation over the past 13 years, you're actually paying less now.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 68 of 92

    I am beginning to agree with this. Having now been a regular iPad Pro user for my work for almost a year, and having got used to going back and forth between a keyboard and touch screen on that device, I find myself instinctively reaching to touch the screen on my MBP more and more often!

    You and my wife. She now uses her iPad Pro more than her MacBook Pro. When we collaborate using my computer she keeps poking the screen! It's not that she doesn't know better, it's just instinctive.

    So far I haven't heard a convincing argument for why it won't work and have first-hand experience with how well it can and DOES work. The control room in which I work is equipped with both a trashcan and a custom touch-screen Windows machine. That means all day, every day I'm reminded how much I prefer macOS over Windows, and how much I wish the Mac offered touch screen. It's really handy for lots of things.

    All the hand-wringing over gorilla arm and UI optimization is overblown. The touch screen doesn't REPLACE the keyboard and mouse, it's IN ADDITION to them, so one can use whatever input method is most convenient for any particular task.

    I'm not saying Apple *should* add touch capability to the Mac, but I am saying that I would welcome it.
  • Reply 69 of 92
    flaneur said:

    [...] Ive and company are not going to sell out all their weight and material saving for an ancient port that can be adapted to with a simple adapter. 

    Even though I agree with you, I think maybe you should let someone else handle the PR on this one. Referring to a USB-A port as "ancient" is a bit premature, doncha think? Hyperbole just alienates people.
    edited November 2016
  • Reply 70 of 92

    With the mouse cursor one can perform very precise data selections and manipulations very quickly.

    Now imagine that cursor is as big as a human hand in 1:1 size, and try to select some files on a cluttered desktop and move them into a folder with that hand size cursor...

    Okay, I'm sitting in front of a Windows touchscreen computer right now. Let's try it out.

    Yup, touch wasn't the best choice for that application. So I used the mouse. Which is still there. Adding touch capability to the screen did not force removal of the mouse. Or the keyboard.

    Oops, hang on, gotta trigger a scene... I can either grab the mouse and navigate to the on-screen button or just hit the button with my finger on the screen. In this case just touching the screen is faster and more intuitive so I'll do that.

    Lots of editors, both audio and video, add two kinds of controllers to their rigs -- faders and jog/shuttle. Not ONCE has anyone said "A jog wheel is a bad idea because it makes a lousy pointer" or "Physical faders are useless because you can't type with them." Right? Because they aren't used INSTEAD OF a mouse and keyboard, they're IN ADDITION to the mouse and keyboard. Some controllers are better at certain things than others. A fat finger makes a lousy precision pointer, but at the same time a mouse is lousy for pushing one fader up while pulling another one down (which I CAN do with a touch screen). Different tools for different tasks.

    For many things you'll probably still want to use your mouse (or trackpad or trackball or whatever pointing device you prefer). For many other things, it's easier, faster or more intuitive to just touch the screen. They're not mutually exclusive, they're complimentary.

    edited November 2016 pscooter63
  • Reply 71 of 92
    bkkcanuck said:

    I never use a built in number pad

    Then you obviously don't use Pro Tools (the industry standard audio workstation) because it uses the number pad extensively. I have to carry around a wired keyboard because Apple removed the number pad from the wireless one.
  • Reply 72 of 92
    ivanhivanh Posts: 597member
    "Watch, iPhone, iPad, Macbook, iMac, they really are all computers." said Schiller to Steven Levy from Backchannel. Sorry Schiller, iPhone, iPad and Watch are 'devices', not computers. That's how Apple categorised the products. Devices have touch screen, computers doesn't.
  • Reply 73 of 92
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,221member
    welshdog said:
    I bought a Mac PowerBook G4 867 12" in 2003 for $2400 customized to my liking.  I just priced a new 15-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar customized to my liking priced at $2599. Considering the new MPB is around 30+ times faster, has a bigger, better screen, faster everything, is actually LIGHTER than the Powerbook,  I figure it's worth the $200 increase from 13 years ago.

    If you consider the U.S. rate of inflation over the past 13 years, you're actually paying less now.
    Except technology doesn't follow inflation. The reality is that technology price index for all but Apple products is a downward sloping curve.
    i once had to pay $5700 for a PowerBook G3, because I upgraded the RAM to 96MB. I don't think that is justified today.
    pscooter63
  • Reply 74 of 92
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,891member
    Rayz2016 said:
    bdkennedy said:
    Phil, you're doing damage control for a reason.
    Yup.  A lot more idiots to reach this time round. 
    Worthless comment. 

    Especially as most of the criticism I've seen has been very well reasoned. 

    In spite of that, there is a (can we say vocal minority?) of people that not only defend  everything Apple does without tolerating the slightest criticism, but who also feel the need to label the critics as 'whiners', 'bitchers', 'losers', 'idiots' etc.

    Well, it's going to be an interesting few months because 'the idiots' have a voice. It's in their wallets. 

    Of course, these machines are so hot they are literally flying off the virtual store shelves. At least according to Schiller. That fact alone makes it a little strange that Schiller came out to do some damage limitation (would anyone argue that is not the case?) as he could just follow Apple general policy and say nothing.

    But seeing that he came out for a second time, why didn't he plunk some numbers on the table regarding sales? "Hey, these things are hot and we are selling them by the bucketload. we've sold xxxx since release"

    He had a golden opportunity to drive home just how well the new MBPs are selling but didn't even touch the issue.

    Strange, as when Apple sells something in huge numbers they often put it in a press release.

    If they are selling by the bucketload, Apple will have added a few million more to its offshore bank balance and good luck to them! It's supply and demand after all.

    Of course, if the opposite is true, Apple will have a problem to resolve. You see, the 'idiots' might not be idiots after all because the only way to shift these machines will be through discounting. The early adopters will have paid more than the idiots but that's ok as they knew that was a risk from the outset.

    I am not an idiot but decided to pass on these machines and not recommend them to anyone. Firstly, I simply cannot afford one. Secondly, I don't like the reasoning on going ever thinner if the price to pay is lost ports etc. I consider the wholesale switch to USB-C unnecessary. They could have transitioned to USB-C in a gradual manner.

    Schiller speaks of choices. The current MBPs represent an extreme choice and the result is this backlash. Schiller knew the risks when they took the decision.

    This has more to do with what these machines are not, than what they are.

    Some people just don't seem to get that.
  • Reply 75 of 92
    LeBart1968LeBart1968 Posts: 16unconfirmed, member

    As for the Flash Card slot, every other professional I know has a 250GB or 500GB card in there and uses it to store photos, video, or code. The internal drive is used for apps and scratch disk, and the Flash as a library.
    SD cards are more often used in consumer cameras. Flash cards in professional cameras (because they're more rugged and I believe also faster - but SD is catching up). Apple used the SD card slot in their professional hardware. So there is something wrong with your statement.
  • Reply 76 of 92
    LeBart1968LeBart1968 Posts: 16unconfirmed, member

    Don't switch indeed. Not perfect for drawing because of the brush latency. Apple has perfectly resolved the latency problem with the iPad Pro. Apple Pencil draws so naturally that you don't even notice an eye-blink of latency. On that foldable-desktop-computer the brush latency is apparent. A mere touch screen is not enough for drawing. That touch screen must also support high resolution tracking of the drawing tool. Apple has achieved that breakthrough with the iPad Pro, it requires a special drawing tool for seamless drawing experience, which is the Apple Pencil, not a mere mortal finger or a mere stylus.
    I never touched a PC, used only Mac. But I have to say, this is the first time there is a temptation. Is this statement from your own experience?

    I have to say the iPad Pro has also sometimes a little bit lag. But not enough to be annoying.
  • Reply 77 of 92
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 7,891member

    As for the Flash Card slot, every other professional I know has a 250GB or 500GB card in there and uses it to store photos, video, or code. The internal drive is used for apps and scratch disk, and the Flash as a library.
    SD cards are more often used in consumer cameras. Flash cards in professional cameras (because they're more rugged and I believe also faster - but SD is catching up). Apple used the SD card slot in their professional hardware. So there is something wrong with your statement.
    You hit the nail on the head. Apple has had an SD slot for years and no one complained about it. People even used the thing Now, in its quest for thinness at any price, it is gone but some people have to defend the decision anyway. And don't even think about asking for a micro SD slot on the iPhone or you will be burnt at the stake in spite of their being no valid reason for not having one.
  • Reply 78 of 92
    avon b7 said:

    As for the Flash Card slot, every other professional I know has a 250GB or 500GB card in there and uses it to store photos, video, or code. The internal drive is used for apps and scratch disk, and the Flash as a library.
    SD cards are more often used in consumer cameras. Flash cards in professional cameras (because they're more rugged and I believe also faster - but SD is catching up). Apple used the SD card slot in their professional hardware. So there is something wrong with your statement.
    You hit the nail on the head. Apple has had an SD slot for years and no one complained about it. People even used the thing Now, in its quest for thinness at any price, it is gone but some people have to defend the decision anyway. And don't even think about asking for a micro SD slot on the iPhone or you will be burnt at the stake in spite of their being no valid reason for not having one.
    And yet these same people don't seem to complain about their cameras having slow connection speeds when plugged in, and/or slow or no wireless options for transfer....  The fact that so many people had to drop back and use sneaker-net to get the pictures from one device to another is IMHO unbelievable....  Sorry Apple dropped your sneaker-net option, but maybe you should go back to your camera maker and see if they will join the 20th century.  Why in the world would you need two SD slots -- your camera already has one... just plug it in :p
    edited November 2016 watto_cobra
  • Reply 79 of 92
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    flaneur said:

    [...] Ive and company are not going to sell out all their weight and material saving for an ancient port that can be adapted to with a simple adapter. 

    Even though I agree with you, I think maybe you should let someone else handle the PR on this one. Referring to a USB-A port as "ancient" is a bit premature, doncha think? Hyperbole just alienates people.
    USB-A is 20 years old.  It predates the first iMac by 2 years.

    Its ancient.
    pscooter63watto_cobraLeBart1968
  • Reply 80 of 92
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    bkkcanuck said:

    I never use a built in number pad

    Then you obviously don't use Pro Tools (the industry standard audio workstation) because it uses the number pad extensively. I have to carry around a wired keyboard because Apple removed the number pad from the wireless one.
    https://eshop.macsales.com/item/Newer Technology/KPA28BTW/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shoppingengine&utm_campaign=googlebase&gclid=CJne3unXqtACFQ1WDQod6gUB1g

    The touch bar should be handy if Avid ever implements it. Logic will.
    watto_cobra
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