What percentage of MacBook Pro users have ever replaced their hard drive or SSD drive? I'll bet it's 1-2%, if even that.
This is a non-issue. If it means better reliability by removing a known point of failure (albeit rare), and it being the fastest SSD drive speeds anywhere, I'm all for it.
No tears are shed from me. I'm waiting for them to be in the stores so I can see one for myself, and likely purchase one.
Myself and several photographers and other Mac users I know have replaced drives and upgraded RAM on their MacBooks...
Disposable computers are the antithesis of "consumer friendly" or "environmentally friendly", Apple.
I have to strongly disagree, and your obliviousness to the (actual) reality of the situation really makes me question whether you own Mac or just troll Apple News sites. My biggest issue with your reply is using line "disposable computers", nothing could be further from the truth. Upgrading computers by selling (or trading) up to a new one is the ultimate in environmental friendliness it's zero waste. The Product is actually used (by second and possibly 3rd or 4th owners) to the ultimate end of it's serviceable lifetime. They are also made of highly recyclable materials Windows Machines are "upgradeable" but generate waste when you upgrade them (old components that are typically landfilled) Interestingly enough most windows laptops have a far shorter service life (based on countless TCO studies) than their "un-upgradable" Mac counterparts
I think he meant disposable in the sense that he can't upgrade them to give them new life. In that context the machine loses its value to an owner that wants to continue to use it. Obviously selling or trading up is what he doesn't want to do but Apple has made the machine less useful by denying the user the option to upgrade.
On the subject of re-use, recycling and safe disposal, I can add that by EU directive, when you purchase new consumer electronics in the EU, the cost of recycling is already factored into the price. The retailer of the new device is also obliged to take your old machine free of charge, if you desire, for recycling, reuse or safe disposal. All EU citizens can also take consumer electronics to local sorting centres.
I tend to use my laptops for six years before replacing them. My first-gen MBP is being used by my twelve-year-old for homework. A SSD has a limited lifespan. This is (sort-of) okay with a tablet or a phone, but I'm looking at spending over $3,000 on the new MacBook Pro early next year (to replace my early-2011). I'm highly unlikely to do spend that kind of cash on a machine that Apple is now considering disposable when a part wears out.
Even if it was removable, you wouldn't want to replace it because these SSDs have an Apple controller and they run on NVMExpress and not on SATA-3 like the rest of the industry. Apple is the first to implement NVMExpress SSDs. SATA-3 SSDs are limited to 300-400 MB/s. NVMExpress peaks at 2-3 GB/s. If any PC maker launches a laptop with NVMExpress next year, you can bet that it will cost you much more than that $3000 you're willing to spend.
I don't think you're correct about all other OEM's being more expensive and definitely not correct about Apple being the first to offer them as a search for "laptop with NVMExpress SSD" comes up with a few.
EDIT: To the person giving my post a downvote: Is because it isn't true or you didn't like knowing about it?
That was the Retina Macbook the first one with NVMe.
Let's say the SSD in someone's new MBP dies after the warranty expires and they didn't get Applecare. Or they did but it dies after that. Normally one would expect you could easily replace the drive yourself for the cost of the drive itself and maybe 20-30 minutes of your time (or that of a tech savvy friend of yours). Might even be able to get a larger capacity drive this time.
Is the drive replaceable even by Apple? And what is that repair going to cost you?
Why isn't the T1 chip modular? What if that breaks? What if the GPU breaks?
Apple should make EVERY chip on the logic board socketable so that I can easily replace it all myself¡ Anything smaller than 3" is too thin for notebooks¡
I don't understand the whining behind this. If you can spend $1800+ for a laptop, why skim $200 for the storage? Really don't get it!
Because some people can't spend $1800 for a laptop. It might be a stretch for them to spend $1499 for one and they can't afford pricey upgrades from Apple. But they want to remain Apple customers and they buy the best one they can afford. And if they need more storage later, they used to be able to know they could easily snag a larger drive off Amazon or from OWC for a good price and pop it in themselves in minutes.
Then go buy something else. Nobody is forcing you to buy a new Mac. Its only a matter of time until other manufacturers follow suit with the rare exceptions.
Why is this always the response from a certain segment of the Mac user base? I like Macs. But when Apple does something like this, I prefer that it be something of genuine benefit if they are going to take capabilities away from me. How is that some radical opinion to hold that warrants a "go buy something else", "take it or leave it" kind of response?
because you're conveniently ignoring the advantages of these tightly integrated machines. speed is one. power efficiency another. mass is another -- thinner and lighter portables are awesome. it's less for me to carry and that has value. all completely ignored by you. .
The MBP without the Touch Bar has a user replaceable drive. There was simply no reasonable excuse for arbitrarily making the one that costs $300 more not have this ability as well.
No it is not replaceable. Socketed does not mean user replaceable. It has a custom Apple controller on it. How do you get that Apple controller from a third party? Only Apple can replace it and even if it offers such an option, only an authorized service provider will do that. Apple will not give that replaceable part to you.
1.) SSD upgrades costing money up-front vs. aftermarket: Eke another few months out of the old machine to budget up a couple bucks extra, and THEN upgrade. Easy. If that doesn't work for you, then you're not actually using the machine to make money and have literally no business whining about "pro" or non-"pro".
2.) Cost of storage upgrades: NOBODY is offering comparable SSD technology cheaper than Apple at this point. These are SSD connected to 4 lanes PCIe. There are VERY few models on the market that offer this, and Apple makes about half of them. Also, aftermarket upgrades to the last few generations of rMBP are AFAIK only about half the speed of the original, and they aren't much cheaper than the initial upgrade at purchase would have been. (See point 1.) above.)
3.) Replacing the main logic board replaces the SSD, losing all its contents. Duh. You "pro" or not "pro" - back that shit up. If you ain't got two copies, it wasn't important. FWIW, I've had two MLB replacements in 27 years of using Macs. One of them was due to a burned-out FireWire port on a 1999 iMac DV.
4.) Cost of upgrading RAM: This is such a non-issue at this point. Laptops that aren't purchased with maxed-out RAM are upgraded exactly once: to max out the RAM. Either this was factored in from the start and postponed or shifted to third-party RAM to eke out a few dollars, or it was declined outright to eke out a few dollars. See point 1.) above.
5.) Upgrading the SSD: Since these things pretty much max out the 4x PCIexpress lanes, what are you going to replace them with that will really breathe new life into the machine five years down the line? So it comes down to capacity. See point 2.) above.
6.) Replacing a defective SSD: As has been pointed out, the current state of SSD tech should have these drives outlasting the useful life of the laptop itself by a significant margin. Not an issue. I'm more worried about the discrete GPU, to be honest.
It seems to me that the above points (all of which I've seen in this thread) really don't concern actual buyers of these products - they affect people who might be looking for used models three or four years down the line, and can't upgrade them then. Not my problem, nor Apple's.
No it is not replaceable. Socketed does not mean user replaceable. It has a custom Apple controller on it. How do you get that Apple controller from a third party? Only Apple can replace it and even if it offers such an option, only an authorized service provider will do that. Apple will not give that replaceable part to you.
It will be a matter of time before places like OWC have SSD upgrade options out for that non-Touch Bar MBP. You and I both know it.
Stop doing this shit. No one likes it. It's of zero benefit to your customers. We don't care if it allows the laptop to be two microns thinner or a tenth of a gram lighter. Two things should always be user upgradeable: RAM and a hard drive. If the motherboard or some power port is hard to access and replace, so be it. Most people will never touch those things. But if my hard drive craps out or the RAM goes blinky, I should be able to pop open a case, pull the bad part out and snap the good one in.
I love Apple products, but this shit is getting old.
Waahhh....
It's a non-issue for just about everyone. The fact that you feel progress means denying you a rarely-used ability is of zero consequence for just about everyone else.
Go cry elsewhere. This is a solid update, removes a known failure-point, and uses the fastest SSD drives around. Get lost.
Then you should be able to easily tell me not only how often these "failure points" actually fail and how much faster the drive is in this configuration over one that is removable.
the data is out there, go find it.
and tell me -- do you likewise moan about the inability to swap out HD or RAM in your ipad? iphone? ipod? nope, nope, and nope.
same thing. appliance computing is here to stay. it adds value for the vast majority of customers. DIY tinkering is a fringe case, and if you expect apple to halt progress for it then i really can't take you seriously.
1. I'm not the one making the assertion that this change somehow is a benefit to users because of connector failures. It's not on me to go prove a point others are trying to make. Put up or shut up.
2. No, because as I said there is a difference in very compact handheld electronics and something the size of a notebook computer. There is hardly any space available inside an iPhone or iPad. There are finger width gaps inside the casing of the new MBP. The soldering of the RAM and SSD do not save us any space that wasn't already available.
3. You keep asserting that it adds value without actually showing how. Merely repeating the assertion doesn't make it more true. Explain to me what tangible benefits making RAM and SSDs non-user-replaceable bring to me that offset the tangible benefits they took away from the user.
Because you are not qualified to do such upgrades. RAM has many undocumented parameters which are only disclosed to OEMs. These parameters are beyond your reach or your everyday component shopping site.
Those are LPDDR3 true notebook RAMs, not desktop RAMs enclosed in a notebook enclosure. Apple and Microsoft are honest companies and they'd never fool their customers by selling desktop RAM in a notebook. Desktop grade components require desktop grade cooling systems. Find a socketed, user-replaceable LPDDR3 module (not DDR3L or DDR3 SIMM with fake LP qualification in the title) and come back again...
The same is true for the SSD because it depends on a custom Apple controller beyond your reach.
Why isn't the T1 chip modular? What if that breaks? What if the GPU breaks?
Apple should make EVERY chip on the logic board socketable so that I can easily replace it all myself¡ Anything smaller than 3" is too thin for notebooks¡
Strawman argument. It has already been said multiple times that no one is expecting a Lego set with infinitely replaceable pieces. But SSDs/hard drives and RAM are standard upgrades that even relative amateurs can undertake or have a slightly more tech savvy friend do for them.
Why isn't the T1 chip modular? What if that breaks? What if the GPU breaks?
Apple should make EVERY chip on the logic board socketable so that I can easily replace it all myself¡ Anything smaller than 3" is too thin for notebooks¡
Strawman argument. It has already been said multiple times that no one is expecting a Lego set with infinitely replaceable pieces. But SSDs/hard drives and RAM are standard upgrades that even relative amateurs can undertake or have a slightly more tech savvy friend do for them.
No. They USED TO be "standard upgrades". Same as power supplies, displays, Floppy drives, Fans, and generic motherboards. That was never true to the same extent for laptops as for desktops, and the world has changed over the past few decades.
I notice that you're no longer whining over non-upgradeable displays on laptops. Why? Don't you miss the days where a techie with more time than sense could stick a 1024x768 display in his toilet-seat iBook?
Yes, people used to do this. But at some point, the benefits of newer technology outweighed the benefits of having modular, replaceable design.
You won't find socketable LPDDR3 laptop RAM because it simply does not exist. Welcome to 2015.
macplusplus said: Because you are not qualified to do such upgrades. RAM has many undocumented parameters which are only disclosed to OEMs. These parameters are beyond your reach or your everyday component shopping site.
Those are LPDDR3 true notebook RAMs, not desktop RAMs enclosed in a notebook enclosure. Apple and Microsoft are honest companies and they'd never fool their customers by selling desktop RAM in a notebook. Desktop grade components require desktop grade cooling systems. Find a socketed, user-replaceable LPDDR3 module (not DDR3L or DDR3 SIMM with fake LP qualification in the title) and come back again...
The same is true for the SSD because it depends on a custom Apple controller beyond your reach.
1. Horseshit. It isn't hard to find reputable 3rd party RAM suppliers, such as OWC, who do have the proper parameters. The new MBP is not some special snowflake. I've added/swapped RAM in various Macs, both notebooks and desktops, for years.
2. The fact that certain components that match the new specs aren't out yet is not the same thing as such things not being available ever.
Why isn't the T1 chip modular? What if that breaks? What if the GPU breaks?
Apple should make EVERY chip on the logic board socketable so that I can easily replace it all myself¡ Anything smaller than 3" is too thin for notebooks¡
Strawman argument. It has already been said multiple times that no one is expecting a Lego set with infinitely replaceable pieces. But SSDs/hard drives and RAM are standard upgrades that even relative amateurs can undertake or have a slightly more tech savvy friend do for them.
No. They USED TO be "standard upgrades". Same as power supplies, displays, Floppy drives, Fans, and generic motherboards. That was never true to the same extent for laptops as for desktops, and the world has changed over the past few decades.
I notice that you're no longer whining over non-upgradeable displays on laptops. Why? Don't you miss the days where a techie with more time than sense could stick a 1024x768 display in his toilet-seat iBook?
Yes, people used to do this. But at some point, the benefits of newer technology outweighed the benefits of having modular, replaceable design.
You won't find socketable LPDDR3 laptop RAM because it simply does not exist. Welcome to 2015.
But you've yet to explain these supposed benefits of newer technology that outweigh being able to replace SSDs or RAM.
Why isn't the T1 chip modular? What if that breaks? What if the GPU breaks?
Apple should make EVERY chip on the logic board socketable so that I can easily replace it all myself¡ Anything smaller than 3" is too thin for notebooks¡
You know perfectly well we are talking about the usual (the historical) user upgradeable parts but you just try to muddy things. Nobody is asking for anything that Apple itself hasn't already done or is not standard industry practice. That said, we already know that if the Touch ID hardware goes south it wI'll require an expensive repair. Very expensive.
Why isn't the T1 chip modular? What if that breaks? What if the GPU breaks?
Apple should make EVERY chip on the logic board socketable so that I can easily replace it all myself¡ Anything smaller than 3" is too thin for notebooks¡
You know perfectly well we are talking about the usual (the historical) user upgradeable parts but you just try to muddy things. Nobody is asking for anything that Apple itself hasn't already done or is not standard industry practice That said, we already know that if the Touch ID hardware goes south it wI'll require an expensive repair. Very expensive.
What does "historical" have to do with anything? With that argument you might as well say that HDDs should be used instead of SSDs because that's what was historically used in PCs. Don't you have a textile factory to destroy?¡
Why isn't the T1 chip modular? What if that breaks? What if the GPU breaks?
Apple should make EVERY chip on the logic board socketable so that I can easily replace it all myself¡ Anything smaller than 3" is too thin for notebooks¡
Strawman argument. It has already been said multiple times that no one is expecting a Lego set with infinitely replaceable pieces. But SSDs/hard drives and RAM are standard upgrades that even relative amateurs can undertake or have a slightly more tech savvy friend do for them.
No. They USED TO be "standard upgrades". Same as power supplies, displays, Floppy drives, Fans, and generic motherboards. That was never true to the same extent for laptops as for desktops, and the world has changed over the past few decades.
I notice that you're no longer whining over non-upgradeable displays on laptops. Why? Don't you miss the days where a techie with more time than sense could stick a 1024x768 display in his toilet-seat iBook?
Yes, people used to do this. But at some point, the benefits of newer technology outweighed the benefits of having modular, replaceable design.
You won't find socketable LPDDR3 laptop RAM because it simply does not exist. Welcome to 2015.
The World has changed over the last few decades? Are we stating the obvious now? But in what way? Are you implying that laptops used to be upgradeable but they aren't now?
You do realise that the cheaper of the new MBPs has socketed SSDs? So you will void your warranty by changing the SSD (Apple politics) but after market, non-Apple upgrades will probably appear.
Many laptops are still upgradeable (some officially user upgradeable) and many MBPs too. That is precisely why people are unhappy. Many want to move up from machines they have already upgraded and are faced with expensive soldered on RAM and SSDs (the case of the higher end MBPs).
It's time for Mr. Ive to take a break and for someone else to come in and put the focus back on the user and his/her needs.
RAM: reliability (this from years and years in tech support in a former life) and lower power consumption.
SSD: I'm not sure yet. I'm not an engineer. But anything socketed is a potential reliability issue especially on mobile devices. I don't know what other technical benefits there may be - especially in future technology generations, since this design is obviously built not just for current technology, but specifically for what they've got lined up for the next five to eight years.
Why isn't the T1 chip modular? What if that breaks? What if the GPU breaks?
Apple should make EVERY chip on the logic board socketable so that I can easily replace it all myself¡ Anything smaller than 3" is too thin for notebooks¡
Strawman argument. It has already been said multiple times that no one is expecting a Lego set with infinitely replaceable pieces. But SSDs/hard drives and RAM are standard upgrades that even relative amateurs can undertake or have a slightly more tech savvy friend do for them.
No. They USED TO be "standard upgrades". Same as power supplies, displays, Floppy drives, Fans, and generic motherboards. That was never true to the same extent for laptops as for desktops, and the world has changed over the past few decades.
I notice that you're no longer whining over non-upgradeable displays on laptops. Why? Don't you miss the days where a techie with more time than sense could stick a 1024x768 display in his toilet-seat iBook?
Yes, people used to do this. But at some point, the benefits of newer technology outweighed the benefits of having modular, replaceable design.
You won't find socketable LPDDR3 laptop RAM because it simply does not exist. Welcome to 2015.
The World has changed over the last few decades? Are we stating the obvious now? But in what way? Are you implying that laptops used to be upgradeable but they aren't now?
You do realise that the cheaper of the new MBPs has socketed SSDs? So you will void your warranty by changing the SSD (Apple politics) but after market, non-Apple upgrades will probably appear.
Actually there is none. There is a reason for Apple to develop its "super-custom SSD controller" (in iFixit parleance). We don't know that reason yet but it is most probably related to the implementation of NVMExpress through PCIe. Apple as we know it since decades does not develop a custom controller unless it has absolutely to do so. Although a third party may always come with its own controller, there is no reason to be hopeful about that for the near future, given the conditions that forced Apple to develop that custom controller.
1.) SSD upgrades costing money up-front vs. aftermarket: Eke another few months out of the old machine to budget up a couple bucks extra, and THEN upgrade. Easy. If that doesn't work for you, then you're not actually using the machine to make money and have literally no business whining about "pro" or non-"pro".
2.) Cost of storage upgrades: NOBODY is offering comparable SSD technology cheaper than Apple at this point. These are SSD connected to 4 lanes PCIe. There are VERY few models on the market that offer this, and Apple makes about half of them. Also, aftermarket upgrades to the last few generations of rMBP are AFAIK only about half the speed of the original, and they aren't much cheaper than the initial upgrade at purchase would have been. (See point 1.) above.)
3.) Replacing the main logic board replaces the SSD, losing all its contents. Duh. You "pro" or not "pro" - back that shit up. If you ain't got two copies, it wasn't important. FWIW, I've had two MLB replacements in 27 years of using Macs. One of them was due to a burned-out FireWire port on a 1999 iMac DV.
4.) Cost of upgrading RAM: This is such a non-issue at this point. Laptops that aren't purchased with maxed-out RAM are upgraded exactly once: to max out the RAM. Either this was factored in from the start and postponed or shifted to third-party RAM to eke out a few dollars, or it was declined outright to eke out a few dollars. See point 1.) above.
5.) Upgrading the SSD: Since these things pretty much max out the 4x PCIexpress lanes, what are you going to replace them with that will really breathe new life into the machine five years down the line? So it comes down to capacity. See point 2.) above.
6.) Replacing a defective SSD: As has been pointed out, the current state of SSD tech should have these drives outlasting the useful life of the laptop itself by a significant margin. Not an issue. I'm more worried about the discrete GPU, to be honest.
It seems to me that the above points (all of which I've seen in this thread) really don't concern actual buyers of these products - they affect people who might be looking for used models three or four years down the line, and can't upgrade them then. Not my problem, nor Apple's.
Point 1. Amazing solution! People are complaining about the starting price being too expensive and the upgrades making them even more expensive and Apple forcing you to upgrade to what you need at time of purchase and your 'solution' is to wait and save more!? Come on, think this through a little. Please!
Point 2. "At this point". And in the future? Ah, you don't know, right? But let's speculate. The new low end MBPs have socketed SSDs. There just might be a possibility of aftermarket upgrades and if someone can do it, they will be cheaper than Apple's. Guaranteed. There's more! Apple is probably getting some of the best prices on these SSDs (volume and investment) but I very much doubt it passing some of those savings onto users. As the industry picks up on this, prices will go down (natural disasters excepted)
"There are very few models at the moment". Yes, at the moment and you say Apple probably makes half of them. But your point is? Nothing. The other half of course, is not made by Apple and in January, more than half will be non-Apple, but what exactly is your point?
Point 3. This is just a rant. Worthless. You state the obvious, given the current state of affairs BUT in the past logic board failure didn't mean you lost your data! This is data loss by design! It wasn't necessary!
Point 4. It is NOT a non issue. I don't want to buy the extra RAM now (At Apple's prices!) If I can get them later on for less. Yes. Refer me to point 1 and your epic fail.
Point 5. Yes. Capacity. Let me refer you to my point 2!
Point 6. "SHOULD outlast". But if it fails???? Not an issue? It's a HUGE issue but your position is "it should never happen"
Why isn't the T1 chip modular? What if that breaks? What if the GPU breaks?
Apple should make EVERY chip on the logic board socketable so that I can easily replace it all myself¡ Anything smaller than 3" is too thin for notebooks¡
Strawman argument. It has already been said multiple times that no one is expecting a Lego set with infinitely replaceable pieces. But SSDs/hard drives and RAM are standard upgrades that even relative amateurs can undertake or have a slightly more tech savvy friend do for them.
No. They USED TO be "standard upgrades". Same as power supplies, displays, Floppy drives, Fans, and generic motherboards. That was never true to the same extent for laptops as for desktops, and the world has changed over the past few decades.
I notice that you're no longer whining over non-upgradeable displays on laptops. Why? Don't you miss the days where a techie with more time than sense could stick a 1024x768 display in his toilet-seat iBook?
Yes, people used to do this. But at some point, the benefits of newer technology outweighed the benefits of having modular, replaceable design.
You won't find socketable LPDDR3 laptop RAM because it simply does not exist. Welcome to 2015.
That is precisely why people are unhappy.
You really don't get it do you? You whine on and on incessantly in every thread here about Apple, their products and their decisions. The point that completely invalidates your trolling is that this is already a successful product, no one but you and a handful of other internet trolls gives a rat's arse about the things you all complain bitterly about. The vast, vast majority of people neither crack their cases to upgrade or swap or fix nor ever, ever, ever want to. So get this, no one cares except such a small number of people that Apple has happily decided (years ago, this isn't news, stop acting like this is a new direction) that you and your childishly entitled attitudes toward tech aren't their target market and they don't care if you go elsewhere, so why don't you just do that, go elsewhere and stop your trolling and whining. It's beyond boring at this point, and my Ignore List is already full.
Again people vote with your wallets. Bitching on an internet message board does no good.
Oh but it does! Do you think Phil Schiller came out twice in quick succession to 'defend' these machines on a whim?
Nope. It is a direct result of the very vocal backlash these machines have provoked.
If people vote with their wallets too, Apple might even eat some humble pie and react to ease some of the unnecessary issues it has brought on itself and many of its users.
except the Macbooks are selling at record numbers
its pretty clear you are in the LOUD minority
These Macbooks are perfect for 95% of the professional work force - accountants, doctors, dentist, real estate, construction, teachers, professors, HR, customer service, ect, ect,ect, ect, ect.
Big pile of hopeful BS. I service a lot of these industries and they are balking. I don't know what you do for a living, but I know it's not working with anyone in the industries you mentioned. As far as selling in record numbers. Bit early to tell isn't it? Apple hasn't released any data so i'm not sure how you can make that statement either.
Comments
On the subject of re-use, recycling and safe disposal, I can add that by EU directive, when you purchase new consumer electronics in the EU, the cost of recycling is already factored into the price. The retailer of the new device is also obliged to take your old machine free of charge, if you desire, for recycling, reuse or safe disposal. All EU citizens can also take consumer electronics to local sorting centres.
Is the drive replaceable even by Apple? And what is that repair going to cost you?
Apple should make EVERY chip on the logic board socketable so that I can easily replace it all myself¡ Anything smaller than 3" is too thin for notebooks¡
A couple of thoughts:
1.) SSD upgrades costing money up-front vs. aftermarket:
Eke another few months out of the old machine to budget up a couple bucks extra, and THEN upgrade. Easy. If that doesn't work for you, then you're not actually using the machine to make money and have literally no business whining about "pro" or non-"pro".
2.) Cost of storage upgrades:
NOBODY is offering comparable SSD technology cheaper than Apple at this point. These are SSD connected to 4 lanes PCIe. There are VERY few models on the market that offer this, and Apple makes about half of them. Also, aftermarket upgrades to the last few generations of rMBP are AFAIK only about half the speed of the original, and they aren't much cheaper than the initial upgrade at purchase would have been. (See point 1.) above.)
3.) Replacing the main logic board replaces the SSD, losing all its contents.
Duh. You "pro" or not "pro" - back that shit up. If you ain't got two copies, it wasn't important. FWIW, I've had two MLB replacements in 27 years of using Macs. One of them was due to a burned-out FireWire port on a 1999 iMac DV.
4.) Cost of upgrading RAM:
This is such a non-issue at this point. Laptops that aren't purchased with maxed-out RAM are upgraded exactly once: to max out the RAM. Either this was factored in from the start and postponed or shifted to third-party RAM to eke out a few dollars, or it was declined outright to eke out a few dollars. See point 1.) above.
5.) Upgrading the SSD:
Since these things pretty much max out the 4x PCIexpress lanes, what are you going to replace them with that will really breathe new life into the machine five years down the line? So it comes down to capacity. See point 2.) above.
6.) Replacing a defective SSD:
As has been pointed out, the current state of SSD tech should have these drives outlasting the useful life of the laptop itself by a significant margin. Not an issue. I'm more worried about the discrete GPU, to be honest.
It seems to me that the above points (all of which I've seen in this thread) really don't concern actual buyers of these products - they affect people who might be looking for used models three or four years down the line, and can't upgrade them then. Not my problem, nor Apple's.
Those are LPDDR3 true notebook RAMs, not desktop RAMs enclosed in a notebook enclosure. Apple and Microsoft are honest companies and they'd never fool their customers by selling desktop RAM in a notebook. Desktop grade components require desktop grade cooling systems. Find a socketed, user-replaceable LPDDR3 module (not DDR3L or DDR3 SIMM with fake LP qualification in the title) and come back again...
The same is true for the SSD because it depends on a custom Apple controller beyond your reach.
I notice that you're no longer whining over non-upgradeable displays on laptops. Why? Don't you miss the days where a techie with more time than sense could stick a 1024x768 display in his toilet-seat iBook?
Yes, people used to do this. But at some point, the benefits of newer technology outweighed the benefits of having modular, replaceable design.
You won't find socketable LPDDR3 laptop RAM because it simply does not exist. Welcome to 2015.
2. The fact that certain components that match the new specs aren't out yet is not the same thing as such things not being available ever.
You do realise that the cheaper of the new MBPs has socketed SSDs? So you will void your warranty by changing the SSD (Apple politics) but after market, non-Apple upgrades will probably appear.
Many laptops are still upgradeable (some officially user upgradeable) and many MBPs too. That is precisely why people are unhappy. Many want to move up from machines they have already upgraded and are faced with expensive soldered on RAM and SSDs (the case of the higher end MBPs).
It's time for Mr. Ive to take a break and for someone else to come in and put the focus back on the user and his/her needs.
SSD: I'm not sure yet. I'm not an engineer. But anything socketed is a potential reliability issue especially on mobile devices. I don't know what other technical benefits there may be - especially in future technology generations, since this design is obviously built not just for current technology, but specifically for what they've got lined up for the next five to eight years.
Point 2. "At this point". And in the future? Ah, you don't know, right? But let's speculate. The new low end MBPs have socketed SSDs. There just might be a possibility of aftermarket upgrades and if someone can do it, they will be cheaper than Apple's. Guaranteed. There's more! Apple is probably getting some of the best prices on these SSDs (volume and investment) but I very much doubt it passing some of those savings onto users. As the industry picks up on this, prices will go down (natural disasters excepted)
"There are very few models at the moment". Yes, at the moment and you say Apple probably makes half of them. But your point is? Nothing. The other half of course, is not made by Apple and in January, more than half will be non-Apple, but what exactly is your point?
Point 3. This is just a rant. Worthless. You state the obvious, given the current state of affairs BUT in the past logic board failure didn't mean you lost your data! This is data loss by design! It wasn't necessary!
Point 4. It is NOT a non issue. I don't want to buy the extra RAM now (At Apple's prices!) If I can get them later on for less. Yes. Refer me to point 1 and your epic fail.
Point 5. Yes. Capacity. Let me refer you to my point 2!
Point 6. "SHOULD outlast". But if it fails???? Not an issue? It's a HUGE issue but your position is "it should never happen"
Wow!
I service a lot of these industries and they are balking.
I don't know what you do for a living, but I know it's not working with anyone in the industries you mentioned.
As far as selling in record numbers. Bit early to tell isn't it? Apple hasn't released any data so i'm not sure how you can make that statement either.