Watch: Apple's 2016 15-inch MacBook Pro with Touch Bar vs. 2015 15-inch MacBook Pro in performance

13

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 64

    My only editorial suggestion about this great video is: change the byline from 'AppleInsider Staff' to the dude's real name.  Nice job.
    Group effort.

    Fair enough.  Kudos to the unnamed hordes involved :-)
  • Reply 42 of 64
    RenzskaRenzska Posts: 2unconfirmed, member
    First off, great review!

    Second, did you have a chance to compare the click feel and sound of the two MacBook Pros? A few others, myself included, have noticed that our new MacBook Pro 2016 w/ Touch Bar models have a hollow sounding click that is very annoying, especially in quiet offices. With the "silent click" feature not available on the new MacBook Pros, the sound can become really bothersome.

    Here's the initial post I made about it: https://origin-discussions-us.apple.com/thread/7757986?start=0&tstart=0

    I also posted a video comparing the trackpad click sound between the 2015 and 2016 MacBook Pro to show the issue. We've been unable to compare in-store because of the loudness of the store. We're trying to validate whether this is just the way the new trackpad is or if it is an issue with our specific devices. Is there any way you could test with the two models you have and see if you have the same click sounds as my below video?

    Here's the video comparing the trackpad click sound: 



    Your help would be appreciated,

    John
    edited December 2016 apple2c
  • Reply 43 of 64
    Have you confirmed that you can charge a 2016 15" mbp from a usbc battery pack, and if so which one/s? Diglloyd says anker confirmed to him that their existing products won't work (Computer may indicate charge mode but does not actually draw power). 
    Would be very useful to have more reliable info on this, as I do plan to buy another battery pack. 

    Thanks for the review--ironically it seems like this model is *more* 'pro' than older models, if you consider it only has advantages while stressed... for non-CPU intensive tasks you get as good or better speed+better battery life(?!). Still, I'm looking forward to my new one. 
  • Reply 44 of 64
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    Renzska said:
    First off, great review!

    Second, did you have a chance to compare the click feel and sound of the two MacBook Pros? A few others, myself included, have noticed that our new MacBook Pro 2016 w/ Touch Bar models have a hollow sounding click that is very annoying, especially in quiet offices. With the "silent click" feature not available on the new MacBook Pros, the sound can become really bothersome.

    Here's the initial post I made about it: https://origin-discussions-us.apple.com/thread/7757986?start=0&tstart=0

    I also posted a video comparing the trackpad click sound between the 2015 and 2016 MacBook Pro to show the issue. We've been unable to compare in-store because of the loudness of the store. We're trying to validate whether this is just the way the new trackpad is or if it is an issue with our specific devices. Is there any way you could test with the two models you have and see if you have the same click sounds as my below video?

    Here's the video comparing the trackpad click sound: 

    [video]

    Your help would be appreciated,

    John
    Since there is no actual movement with the trackpad I'm surprised this wasn't shown with the various settings for the haptic engine.

    I've used it and it felt fine. I can't say that sound was an issue but perhaps the environment wasn't quiet enough or perhaps that just isn't something that registers for me.
  • Reply 45 of 64
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member

    xtoph said:
    Have you confirmed that you can charge a 2016 15" mbp from a usbc battery pack, and if so which one/s? Diglloyd says anker confirmed to him that their existing products won't work (Computer may indicate charge mode but does not actually draw power). 
    Would be very useful to have more reliable info on this, as I do plan to buy another battery pack. 

    Thanks for the review--ironically it seems like this model is *more* 'pro' than older models, if you consider it only has advantages while stressed... for non-CPU intensive tasks you get as good or better speed+better battery life(?!). Still, I'm looking forward to my new one. 
    Yes, you can charge via a battery pack. As to which ones will or won't work, I don't know how intelligent the MBPs are with poor regulation, but if memory serves the battery pack has to be a higher voltage than the port that is receiving for the proper direction of flow. (If that's wrong or incomplete, please correct.) 
  • Reply 46 of 64
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    Perhaps Prime 95 + 6920HQ (highest config CPU) would be a better option for stress test for the new design. I'd like to know how it performs.
  • Reply 47 of 64
    spheric said:
    tommis said:
    Second time you've spammed your ancient-trope-laden piece of **** article. 

    **** off. 
    Real mature comeback.  Vocabulary problems?!  Many of us would rather NOT read crude language and four-letter words when browsing tech comments.  

    Keep your audience in mind-- such language undermines whatever case or point you're trying to make.  Others offered a response and critique with details and real thoughts!
    edited December 2016
  • Reply 48 of 64
    John, great comparative video of the trackpad noise!

    However, I wouldn't characterize the new one as sounding "hollow" or "mushy", but rather tinnier or more metallic, with a higher pitch.  The 2015 one, in fact, is the one that sounds hollow to me and has more of a thudding click.

    It's the type of thing that one likely gets used to in little time!  And, unless there is a side-by-side comparison, the difference or change is likely to be forgotten.  

    It's also the type of thing that where preferences are demonstrably idiosyncratic.  As as the ancient Romans used to say:  De gustibus non est disputandum!

    -------------------------------------- 

    Now, the keyboard comparison and their respective noises-- sound and volume -- would be worth hearing, too!
  • Reply 49 of 64
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,369member
    I think if you are an armchair critic (or live in your mom's basement) then you can say how expensive the new MacBook Pro is all day long and feel justified as you use that can of compressed air to blow cheetos dust from your custom-built, liquid-cooled overclocked excuse for your manhood.  But here's the deal... I've seen these things in person and have one on order because they are insane.  The lid/screen on this is impossibly thin and yet crazy solid.  I know it's easy to dismiss this as trivial, but this is crazy when you consider this screen is 50% brighter, has a higher contrast ratio and wide color gamut.  Simply put, this isn't just the thinnest display I've ever seen on a laptop, it's also the BEST display.  AS others have stated, this isn't a trivial feat of engineering.  This took a lot of R&D and tooling, finding the right materials, investing in display technology and much more.

    The keyboard is also great on these laptops, the Touch Bar and more.  Seriously, these things are not trivial improvements. They've improved every aspect of the laptop.  You might not appreciate the technology and engineering behind this, but I can tell you first hand and the experience is wonderful.  I also love how fluid the all-metal hinge is.  Getting the friction and motion "just right" on this is critical so it opens with one finger, stays where you want it and doesn't flip over the whole laptop in the process.
    Solimacplusplus
  • Reply 50 of 64
    Renzska said:
    First off, great review!

    Second, did you have a chance to compare the click feel and sound of the two MacBook Pros? A few others, myself included, have noticed that our new MacBook Pro 2016 w/ Touch Bar models have a hollow sounding click that is very annoying, especially in quiet offices. With the "silent click" feature not available on the new MacBook Pros, the sound can become really bothersome.

    Here's the initial post I made about it: https://origin-discussions-us.apple.com/thread/7757986?start=0&tstart=0

    I also posted a video comparing the trackpad click sound between the 2015 and 2016 MacBook Pro to show the issue. We've been unable to compare in-store because of the loudness of the store. We're trying to validate whether this is just the way the new trackpad is or if it is an issue with our specific devices. Is there any way you could test with the two models you have and see if you have the same click sounds as my below video?

    Here's the video comparing the trackpad click sound: 



    Your help would be appreciated,

    John
    Check or uncheck "Silent clicking" in Trackpad Preference pane in System Preferences.
  • Reply 51 of 64
    RenzskaRenzska Posts: 2unconfirmed, member
    Renzska said:
    First off, great review!

    Second, did you have a chance to compare the click feel and sound of the two MacBook Pros? A few others, myself included, have noticed that our new MacBook Pro 2016 w/ Touch Bar models have a hollow sounding click that is very annoying, especially in quiet offices. With the "silent click" feature not available on the new MacBook Pros, the sound can become really bothersome.

    Here's the initial post I made about it: https://origin-discussions-us.apple.com/thread/7757986?start=0&tstart=0

    I also posted a video comparing the trackpad click sound between the 2015 and 2016 MacBook Pro to show the issue. We've been unable to compare in-store because of the loudness of the store. We're trying to validate whether this is just the way the new trackpad is or if it is an issue with our specific devices. Is there any way you could test with the two models you have and see if you have the same click sounds as my below video?

    Here's the video comparing the trackpad click sound: 



    Your help would be appreciated,

    John
    Check or uncheck "Silent clicking" in Trackpad Preference pane in System Preferences.
    This option is not available on the new MacBook Pro 2016 Models.
  • Reply 52 of 64
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,324member
    Excellent review. But here are two areas that need further elobaration: (1) MagSafe substitutes, and (2) Palm Rejection.

    The Griffin MagSafe substitute shown in the video in not reversible and can charge the Mac at only 60W, not at the 87W the MBP 15 gets from the charger normally. The video fails to mention the Kickstarter Snapnator product that is reversible and claims to charge at full speed:

    http://www.snapnator.com

    Make another video for us showing how palms are rejected in various hand positions and usage situations. This is important because I've seen just about every video in the new machines and some say palm rejection is good but not good enough.

     Thank you.
  • Reply 53 of 64
    jkichlinejkichline Posts: 1,369member
    jdw said:
    Excellent review. But here are two areas that need further elobaration: (1) MagSafe substitutes, and (2) Palm Rejection.

    The Griffin MagSafe substitute shown in the video in not reversible and can charge the Mac at only 60W, not at the 87W the MBP 15 gets from the charger normally. The video fails to mention the Kickstarter Snapnator product that is reversible and claims to charge at full speed:

    http://www.snapnator.com

    Make another video for us showing how palms are rejected in various hand positions and usage situations. This is important because I've seen just about every video in the new machines and some say palm rejection is good but not good enough.

     Thank you.
    Snapnator sounds pretty awesome, but it probably doesn't have the ability to also carry data too.  What I love about the USB-C notion is that we can finally get to the one plug-in dock.  I'm close right now with a Thunderbolt 2 dock, but not quite.

    One thing I'd like to know is if the USB cord would just pull out..  I'm guessing it's not quite the same as MagSafe but it would be interesting at least.  I also wonder if MagSafe is really a necessity anymore.  The reason is that if the laptop can run for sufficient time on a charge, then the power charging ritual changes. Instead of the laptop always needing to be plugged in (which was needed when laptops last 2 hours on a charge), we are moving close to all-day battery life.  Charging on newer batteries in newer MacBook Pros seems to take about an hour.  So the time you need to have your computer plugged in for a day is one hour out of a whole day.  There's less possibility of risk.

    When MagSafe came out, computers were also much more fragile. They had spinning hard drives and CD-ROMs.  They weighted like 8 pounds. So when a laptop fell, it had the potential to cause serious damage to internal components, media and your floor. But if these newer laptops have no moving parts and weigh much less... is that still a big concern? If my iPad falls on the floor, I'm not worried that it's going to be non-functional (I've dropped plenty and they have never gotten much damage.  Perhaps the same is true with the modern MBPr.  Improvements in other areas and changes of use patterns may mitigate the need for MagSafe altogether. Perhaps it's a residual leftover and something people feel they need because we are used to it.  I'm more likely to yank my computer off the desk with the headphones I forget are in my ears!
  • Reply 54 of 64
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,324member
    jkichline said:
    ...I also wonder if MagSafe is really a necessity anymore.  The reason is that if the laptop can run for sufficient time on a charge, then the power charging ritual changes. Instead of the laptop always needing to be plugged in (which was needed when laptops last 2 hours on a charge), we are moving close to all-day battery life.  
    I personally would keep the machine plugged in whenever possible at home so as to increase the usable life of the battery.  From what I understand, if the battery is charged and you plugin the power cable and continue to use the Mac, the majority of the power will come from the power brick and not the battery, thereby reducing your recharge cycles.  Such would also affect the resale value of the machine.  The lower the number of recharge cycles, the more people will likely pay for your used MacBook Pro.
  • Reply 55 of 64
    jdw said:
    jkichline said:
    ...I also wonder if MagSafe is really a necessity anymore.  The reason is that if the laptop can run for sufficient time on a charge, then the power charging ritual changes. Instead of the laptop always needing to be plugged in (which was needed when laptops last 2 hours on a charge), we are moving close to all-day battery life.  
    I personally would keep the machine plugged in whenever possible at home so as to increase the usable life of the battery.  From what I understand, if the battery is charged and you plugin the power cable and continue to use the Mac, the majority of the power will come from the power brick and not the battery, thereby reducing your recharge cycles.  Such would also affect the resale value of the machine.  The lower the number of recharge cycles, the more people will likely pay for your used MacBook Pro.
    In theory, what you are saying should be a good thing to reduce the number of battery discharge cycles on your used MacBook Pro to get a higher resale value.

    In practice, running your machine off the wall outlet (at least, not using the internal battery) actually leads to a much shorter useful battery life, that has fewer discharge cycles, but the battery dies anyway.

    i used my 2010 17" MacBook Pro as you are thinking, and the battery died with under 40 cycles, swelling up in the case, with a far shorter battery life per charge.  I had to replace the battery, and since then, I've been doing about 1 discharge a week.  The result is I've had more total cycles since I replaced it, but it's working better, too, and is already having a longer useful lifespan than the original battery.  Such batteries actually need to be used as batteries to maximize their useful lifespan: the question is how often it is discharged and the pattern.

    After my first battery died, that caused me to ask: how often should I discharge it?  I found Apple had an official statement on that on their website: at least once a month.  Based on official statements combined with actual experience, it's clear: if you use a laptop, it'll be healthiest to use it as a laptop and use it running off the battery on a regular basis, and don't just treat it as a very portable desktop.
  • Reply 56 of 64
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,324member
    ...running your machine off the wall outlet (at least, not using the internal battery) actually leads to a much shorter useful battery life, that has fewer discharge cycles, but the battery dies anyway.  i used my 2010 17" MacBook Pro as you are thinking, and the battery died with under 40 cycles, swelling up in the case, with a far shorter battery life per charge.  I had to replace the battery...
    Would that be something exclusive (i.e., bad charging design) to the 17" that does not affect the current 2016 models?  For truly, it makes no sense whatsoever that a premium laptop from Apple should do such a thing.  There are no such warnings in the documentation either, which leads one to logically conclude that it may have been a fault with your particular 17" or the entire 17" line.  But we would need others to chime in to expand the data pool to know with more certainty.

    In the meantime, are there any software hacks that can force Apple MacBooks to draw power only from the wall socket and not fiddle around with the battery at all?  Because the only reason your 17" would have ended up with a dead battery when connected to the wall is if the machine was draining and recharging the battery in a very bad way continuously, perhaps even overheating it during that process.
  • Reply 57 of 64
    jdw said:
    ...running your machine off the wall outlet (at least, not using the internal battery) actually leads to a much shorter useful battery life, that has fewer discharge cycles, but the battery dies anyway.  i used my 2010 17" MacBook Pro as you are thinking, and the battery died with under 40 cycles, swelling up in the case, with a far shorter battery life per charge.  I had to replace the battery...
    Would that be something exclusive (i.e., bad charging design) to the 17" that does not affect the current 2016 models?  For truly, it makes no sense whatsoever that a premium laptop from Apple should do such a thing.  There are no such warnings in the documentation either, which leads one to logically conclude that it may have been a fault with your particular 17" or the entire 17" line.  But we would need others to chime in to expand the data pool to know with more certainty.

    In the meantime, are there any software hacks that can force Apple MacBooks to draw power only from the wall socket and not fiddle around with the battery at all?  Because the only reason your 17" would have ended up with a dead battery when connected to the wall is if the machine was draining and recharging the battery in a very bad way continuously, perhaps even overheating it during that process.
    Actually, this has zero to do with the computer and the charger design, and everything to do with battery technology: what I read was not specific to any particular computer for any particular line or size or year, and battery technology hasn't changed in any meaningful way in that timeframe for what's used inside of computers.  The biggest change that's happened in that number of years is Apple has made their batteries in thin more form-fitting layers to maximize power density inside the case: the underlying chemistry of the batteries has not changed in any meaningful way in that timeframe.  This is not specific to Apple computers or PCs, but also applies to cell phone batteries, etc.

    As to the software hack side of things to not touch batteries at all, I strongly suspect that the charging is taken care of entirely with a lower-level micro controller that does not have any way to hack it: how do you think it works when the main CPU isn't powered on?

    Now, as to documentation included with your computer: you don't seriously think computer manufacturers send users ALL available documentation on their hardware and software that runs on their computer, do you?  That's not been something that's happened for well over a decade for anything: if you want all that information, you'll be best served (but no guarantee that it will be all available) by going to the manufacturer's website for each thing.  The Apple product lineup is more geared towards typical end users: they won't be providing all that low-level information to give end users a lot of stuff to read, that's typically ignored anyway.  

    I'd love to find out I'm wrong about the 2016 battery technology, but I've paid attention to battery technology and as many interesting things as have been talked about on arstechnica.com, none of them have apparently made it into production that would lesson the charging issue between 2010 and now.  The closest is something that includes using platinum or gold (I think it was platinum) that was found to greatly extend the discharge cycle counts of these types of batteries in laboratory testing, when used in a certain way.  That was within the last year that that article was posted.  Even if they do end up doing that (I'd love it if they get that into production, whatever the materials) it won't be in the next year, as those things have a long ramp-up time.  That, and platinum is even more expensive than gold.
  • Reply 58 of 64
    jdwjdw Posts: 1,324member
    So basically what you are saying is that all MacBooks and AIRs and Pros made within the last 10 years to date have basically the same battery tech and charging techniques, such that WHEN PLUGGED INTO A WALL SOCKET, the Macs (for reasons unknown to us) discharge and charge the batteries in such a horrible way that it shortens the very life of the battery.  Is that right?

    And of course, that is why you are suggesting that no one should perpetually plug into a wall socket but instead draw from battery power only and then use the socket only to change the Mac when NOT IN USE.  Is that correct?
  • Reply 59 of 64
    Great summary, thank you.

    I took some time (about 90 minutes) at my local  Store to test the new MBP 15" w/Touch Bar.  I choose a very slow time at the store, bring a USB stick with files and run a full gamut of tests including some specialty software that I need for my work, whenever I evaluate an upgrade.

    Very impressed with the machine especially the Touch Bar and keyboard (just about perfect for touch typing after spending a full five minutes of tests).  It is by far the best MBP I have ever used and I will update my 2013 when the time comes (I usually keep laptops 4-5 years).  I have no problems with the USB-C connectors and welcome them.  In a very short time everyone will have switched to those.  Battery life is still a concern (as noted by others), but this might be an option for both battery life and cabling:  https://9to5mac.com/2016/12/01/macbook-battery-pack-macbook-pro-battery-pack/

    I really hope that some of this technology comes to the iMac (I have a 2009 that must be updated early next year).  I agree with others that Intel has thrown a monkey wrench at Apple (and others) with their wonky update cycles.  I'm not a hardware kind of guy, but from I have gleaned from this forum and others Apple has made the best choices in terms of the ideal hardware combination for the MBP today.  
  • Reply 60 of 64
    jdw said:
    So basically what you are saying is that all MacBooks and AIRs and Pros made within the last 10 years to date have basically the same battery tech and charging techniques, such that WHEN PLUGGED INTO A WALL SOCKET, the Macs (for reasons unknown to us) discharge and charge the batteries in such a horrible way that it shortens the very life of the battery.  Is that right?

    And of course, that is why you are suggesting that no one should perpetually plug into a wall socket but instead draw from battery power only and then use the socket only to change the Mac when NOT IN USE.  Is that correct?
    I had already indicated that this is something with the battery technology in general: it's NOT specific to Apple or any maker of computer.

    Once a battery is at 100%, it is deliberately NOT topped-off constantly, as that wears on them as well.  They're purposely allowed to be used to some extent (I've seen it go down to about 95% charge, and this doesn't seem to matter on the machine: my machine at work (PC) does the same sort of thing) so as to not force the battery to try to take on extra charge.  Batteries are generally quickly recharged to about 80% capacity, and the last 20% is trickle charged, which is a much slower rate, to extend the life of the battery.  Charging a battery shortens the life: a deep discharge shortens the life: not using it shortens the life.  There is a balance to be achieved.

    I didn't state one way or the other that you should never use it while plugged into the wall, at least not as precisely as you've inferred: if that's how you read it, sorry about that.  Running it off main power is fine, as long as you keep the battery at some level of regular charge/discharge.  After all, would it make sense to say "Oh, my battery is discharged, I can't use it until I charge it back up, while it's charging!" so no, that's not the issue :)

    I looked in the last few hours: Apple has changed what they say about batteries since the last time I checked, but I can also find posts by others that confirm what I stated Apple said previously.  Unfortunately, Apple isn't in the habit of putting time/date stamps on their site for materials and when it was last updated, and, once again, in this updated statement, they didn't refer to any particular models beyond generalities.
    jdw
Sign In or Register to comment.