Apple has 'great desktops' on Mac roadmap, CEO Tim Cook says

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  • Reply 121 of 217
    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    That desktop is still based on Intel's Skylake CPU which is a year old and the Nvidia GPU is also based on at least one-year old technology. Other than the 128GB SSD and hi-res touch-screen, nothing else is latest and greatest.
    You don't get it, it's not about the specs it's about the product. There are other ways to innovate, and Apple seems to have lost its way.

    dysamoria
  • Reply 122 of 217
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,979member
    jvmb said:
    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    That desktop is still based on Intel's Skylake CPU which is a year old and the Nvidia GPU is also based on at least one-year old technology. Other than the 128GB SSD and hi-res touch-screen, nothing else is latest and greatest.
    Newer CPUs is not the only reason to release a new revision of a desktop. I have the latest Mac Mini (2014) and it has no USB-C ports. How much effort would it have been for Apple to release an updated Mac Mini with USB-C ports? Intel is not to blame for that. 

    Also, you can not blame intel for the lack of quad core processors on the Mac Mini. I have enough space on my desk for a desktop with desktop processors. As Tim said, desktops don't have the same space constraints as laptops. 
    Do you realize the shit storm this creates if they released new design with old hardware? I don't think you do. Maybe you don't care about that, but it would not be good. You don't just release something for the sake of releasing something. You will really piss people off. 
  • Reply 123 of 217
    macxpress said:
    jvmb said:
    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    That desktop is still based on Intel's Skylake CPU which is a year old and the Nvidia GPU is also based on at least one-year old technology. Other than the 128GB SSD and hi-res touch-screen, nothing else is latest and greatest.
    Newer CPUs is not the only reason to release a new revision of a desktop. I have the latest Mac Mini (2014) and it has no USB-C ports. How much effort would it have been for Apple to release an updated Mac Mini with USB-C ports? Intel is not to blame for that. 

    Also, you can not blame intel for the lack of quad core processors on the Mac Mini. I have enough space on my desk for a desktop with desktop processors. As Tim said, desktops don't have the same space constraints as laptops. 
    Do you realize the shit storm this creates if they released new design with old hardware? I don't think you do. Maybe you don't care about that, but it would not be good. You don't just release something for the sake of releasing something. You will really piss people off. 
    I have to agree with that to a certain extent.  You piss people off if you don't release annually, and you piss others off if you do but don't have much to differentiate it.  CPU performance is not increasing by leaps and bounds, and Thunderbolt or USB don't evolve that quickly.... which leaves SSDs as the only ones that seem to be evolving at any pace.
  • Reply 124 of 217
    macxpress said:
    That's been a pretty long road map for the Mac Pro...
    Intel's roadmap has been quite long as well...which doesn't help things. I still want to see Apple go back to a mini tower for the Mac Pro. It doesn't have to be as large as the old Mac Pro, but maybe the size of the PowerMac G4. Put a couple of PCIe slots, couple of flash storage slots, etc. It would also be cool I think to keep it the same black aluminum.
    Can the vision for stringing attachments versus expansion slots work? How I use things I think it can but I do not use these things for Pro use...would be curious on thought regarding this.
  • Reply 125 of 217
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 1,007member
    I had my 2006 Mac Pro for 8 years when eventually the PSU blew up. In that time it was upgraded to 12GB RAM (about £120 online, around £500 from Apple), a SSD installed, bigger HDD installed and GPU upgradeded twice. No chance of doing any of those apart from RAM and perhaps - though unlikely -the GPU, with the trash can. Before the PSU died it was still a fast, usable machine which I probably wouldn't have replaced for a few more years. 

    I replaced the MP with an iMac, which was bought in 2013 but is a late 2012 model. It's 4 years old but isn't faring as well as the MP was, especially on the graphics front.  I'm concerned about its HDD too, but to replace it is hell. Appliance computing from Apple. 
    dysamoria
  • Reply 126 of 217
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,979member
    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    That desktop is still based on Intel's Skylake CPU which is a year old and the Nvidia GPU is also based on at least one-year old technology. Other than the 128GB SSD and hi-res touch-screen, nothing else is latest and greatest.
    You don't get it, it's not about the specs it's about the product. There are other ways to innovate, and Apple seems to have lost its way.

    So tell me, what's so innovative about this Microsoft Surface Studio? The fact that you can draw on the screen? The movement of the screen? Other than that, its really an iMac with slightly updated specs albeit still out dated specs before it ships. This thing isn't even shipping yet and has an enormous price tag on it, suited for a very niche market.
    edited December 2016 watto_cobra
  • Reply 127 of 217
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 1,007member
    cubefan said:
    A slow product lifecycle is better for you, as an Apple customer, as the products have a longer useful life, retain their value so if you upgrade you can resell it for more than that HP laptop.  A slower lifecycle is better for the planet. Period.  Use, reuse, recycle.   NOT USE, dump.
    Shame the "reuse" is much more difficult in a Mac than a PC as its unupgradable. And recycling MacBooks is also not as easy as Apple claims due to the copious amounts of glue. Pretty dodgy getting those Li-Ion batteries out with a scraper. 
    dysamoria
  • Reply 128 of 217
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,979member
    elijahg said:
    cubefan said:
    A slow product lifecycle is better for you, as an Apple customer, as the products have a longer useful life, retain their value so if you upgrade you can resell it for more than that HP laptop.  A slower lifecycle is better for the planet. Period.  Use, reuse, recycle.   NOT USE, dump.
    Shame the "reuse" is much more difficult in a Mac than a PC as its unupgradable. And recycling MacBooks is also not as easy as Apple claims due to the copious amounts of glue. Pretty dodgy getting those Li-Ion batteries out with a scraper. 
    And how many people these days upgrade their PC beyond maybe putting RAM on it? Just because its upgradable doesn't mean people are actually doing it. When a PC gets older and slow they go buy new ones for another $299-$499 (disposable PC's)
     
    You can turn your Mac into Apple and they recycle it for you. If it has any value, they'll even give you credit for it. Unless you're doing the recycling for everyone how do you know about the difficulty of getting batteries out? Its not like these are going to Bob's recycling center. 
    edited December 2016
  • Reply 129 of 217
    macxpress said:
    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    That desktop is still based on Intel's Skylake CPU which is a year old and the Nvidia GPU is also based on at least one-year old technology. Other than the 128GB SSD and hi-res touch-screen, nothing else is latest and greatest.
    You don't get it, it's not about the specs it's about the product. There are other ways to innovate, and Apple seems to have lost its way.
    So tell me, what's so innovative about this Microsoft Surface Studio? The fact that you can draw on the screen? The movement of the screen? Other than that, its really an iMac with slightly updated specs albeit still out dated specs before it ships. This thing isn't even shipping yet and has an enormous price tag on it, suited for a very niche market.
    If you watch recent Macbreak Weekly episodes you will see Leo Laporte with one on his desk that he is playing around with.... but what I notice is that it is not likely going to be very comfortable in either position.... If you lower it to a drafting table angle a keyboard in front of it is not going to work out that way or you will not be able to reach the top of the screen, and using a pen will only have you keyboarding with your body...... you will still have to lean forward to reach the bars at the top of the screen which is not going to be ergonomically very good....  Then if you put it up in an iMac position you are not going to use the drawing mechanism.  Now if you are drawing on a large board but not like a draftsman (i.e. freehand) it is likely going to be uncomfortable focusing on areas at the edge of your reach.  

    I stick by my original premise that Apple is still closer.... A desktop can focus on what it does best, and an iPad can focus on what it can do best.  What I want is for the iPad and Mac to work almost as seamless extensions of each other when used together but not compromise their functionality when used separately.  It is almost as though Microsoft is throwing darts all over the place hoping to hit something directly, but the likelihood of doing that without work and planning.... not good.
    edited December 2016 brucemcelijahgcanukstormdysamoriawatto_cobra
  • Reply 130 of 217
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,979member
    bkkcanuck said:
    macxpress said:
    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    That desktop is still based on Intel's Skylake CPU which is a year old and the Nvidia GPU is also based on at least one-year old technology. Other than the 128GB SSD and hi-res touch-screen, nothing else is latest and greatest.
    You don't get it, it's not about the specs it's about the product. There are other ways to innovate, and Apple seems to have lost its way.
    So tell me, what's so innovative about this Microsoft Surface Studio? The fact that you can draw on the screen? The movement of the screen? Other than that, its really an iMac with slightly updated specs albeit still out dated specs before it ships. This thing isn't even shipping yet and has an enormous price tag on it, suited for a very niche market.
    If you watch recent Macbreak Weekly episodes you will see Leo Laporte with one on his desk that he is playing around with.... but what I notice is that it is not likely going to be very comfortable in either position.... If you lower it to a drafting table angle a keyboard in front of it is not going to work out that way or you will not be able to reach the top of the screen, and using a pen will only have you keyboarding with your body...... you will still have to lean forward to reach the bars at the top of the screen which is not going to be ergonomically very good....  Then if you put it up in an iMac position you are not going to use the drawing mechanism.  Now if you are drawing on a large board but not like a draftsman (i.e. freehand) it is likely going to be uncomfortable focusing on areas at the edge of your reach.  

    I stick by my original premise that Apple is still closer.... A desktop can focus on what it does best, and an iPad can focus on what it can do best.  What I want is for the iPad and Mac to work almost as seamless extensions of each other when used together but not compromise their functionality when used separately.  It is almost as though Microsoft is throwing darts all over the place hoping to hit something directly, but the likelihood of doing that without work and planning.... not good.
    This is exactly why Apple doesn't make a touchscreen iMac. It would be stupid for them to do so. Its cool for a whole 5 seconds and then its just a very expensive touchscreen that you'll never use. 
    edited December 2016 brucemcdysamoriawatto_cobra
  • Reply 131 of 217
    macxpress said:
    bkkcanuck said:
    macxpress said:
    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    That desktop is still based on Intel's Skylake CPU which is a year old and the Nvidia GPU is also based on at least one-year old technology. Other than the 128GB SSD and hi-res touch-screen, nothing else is latest and greatest.
    You don't get it, it's not about the specs it's about the product. There are other ways to innovate, and Apple seems to have lost its way.

    So tell me, what's so innovative about this Microsoft Surface Studio? The fact that you can draw on the screen? The movement of the screen? Other than that, its really an iMac with slightly updated specs albeit still out dated specs before it ships. This thing isn't even shipping yet and has an enormous price tag on it, suited for a very niche market. 

    Quoting Steve Jobs...I think I'm gonna puke! This isn't Steve's Apple anymore...get over it!
    If you watch recent Macbreak Weekly episodes you will see Leo Laporte with one on his desk that he is playing around with.... but what I notice is that it is not likely going to be very comfortable in either position.... If you lower it to a drafting table angle a keyboard in front of it is not going to work out that way or you will not be able to reach the top of the screen, and using a pen will only have you keyboarding with your body...... you will still have to lean forward to reach the bars at the top of the screen which is not going to be ergonomically very good....  Then if you put it up in an iMac position you are not going to use the drawing mechanism.  Now if you are drawing on a large board but not like a draftsman (i.e. freehand) it is likely going to be uncomfortable focusing on areas at the edge of your reach.  

    I stick by my original premise that Apple is still closer.... A desktop can focus on what it does best, and an iPad can focus on what it can do best.  What I want is for the iPad and Mac to work almost as seamless extensions of each other when used together but not compromise their functionality when used separately.  It is almost as though Microsoft is throwing darts all over the place hoping to hit something directly, but the likelihood of doing that without work and planning.... not good.
    This is exactly why Apple doesn't make a touchscreen iMac. It would be stupid for them to do so. Its cool for a whole 5 seconds and then its just a very expensive touchscreen that you'll never use. 
    You think it's stupid because Tim told you it's stupid, but it's really not. Yes, the Surface Studio has its shortcomings mainly the stylus and secondly the fixed screen angles, but if Apple stopped limiting their possibilities they would've nailed it and it would've been a freaking hit!!
    edited December 2016
  • Reply 132 of 217
    volcan said:
    nht said:

    You use a 5K iMac and a Mac Pro to do software development?  LOL.  Okay.

    Thats too much for your average developer for anything but bragging rights and too little for anyone actually needing heavy metal.
    My work covers a few different disciplines so I have my reasons for using those larger desktop machines. I guess I'm just spoiled now. I find working on a small laptop screen very tedious, especially when I have to remotely log in to the office private network while on the road. Plus when on the road the laptop ergonomics are usually awful which makes the experience even worse.
    You might consider a 12" iPad Pro with KB Case -- less expensive, longer battery, denser display, lighter weight...

    Here's an example remoting to an iMac 5K using the Screens App -- it shows both client and server running locally on the iMac:

    • Top Left - Xcode Kitura Web Server running locally -- with access to remote IBM Bluemix services in the Cloud, e.g. Couch DB, etc.
    • Top Right - Xcode iOS Client running locally in Simulator -- connecting to local Kitura Web Server
    • Top Center - The iOS Client running locally in the Simulator
    • Bottom left - a Safari Window accessing the Kitura Web Server running locally
    • Bottom Right - a Finder Window showing the Client and Server components that are running locally in Xcode




    Now if we could only do this Standalone on the iPad, too -- well maybe next year...

    edited December 2016 roundaboutnowai46bestkeptsecret
  • Reply 133 of 217
    "Great desktops"? I'm getting very skeptical about that. Apple is flirting with losing professional and creative users whose influence goes far beyond direct sales to them. The Pro and its "can't innovate, my ass" intro has been a complete letdown. If that's the kind of thing Cook has in mind, Apple might just as well cede this market to others and move desktop employees to the car.

    My wife's iMac from 2010 needed replacement. I waited and waited for an Xmas update. When I gave up and bought the latest and greatest last month it was shown to be an October 2015 model in the About This Mac menu. Pathetic. Apple, the new Phone Company. 
    These are the comments no one takes seriously. You're using a 2010 iMac. No reason you couldn't replace it with a 2015. Absolutely no reason. Except the perpetual paranoia of wanting the latest thing that hasn't been released yet.
    macpluspluswatto_cobra
  • Reply 134 of 217
    danvmdanvm Posts: 791member
    macxpress said:
    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    That desktop is still based on Intel's Skylake CPU which is a year old and the Nvidia GPU is also based on at least one-year old technology. Other than the 128GB SSD and hi-res touch-screen, nothing else is latest and greatest.
    You don't get it, it's not about the specs it's about the product. There are other ways to innovate, and Apple seems to have lost its way.

    So tell me, what's so innovative about this Microsoft Surface Studio? The fact that you can draw on the screen? The movement of the screen? Other than that, its really an iMac with slightly updated specs albeit still out dated specs before it ships. This thing isn't even shipping yet and has an enormous price tag on it, suited for a very niche market. 

    Quoting Steve Jobs...I think I'm gonna puke! This isn't Steve's Apple anymore...get over it!

    IMO, the Surface Dial should be part of the list of innovative thing the Surface Studio does.  I found strange that you mention a list of things where the Surface Studio innovates, but a the same time it isn't because is an "iMac with updated specs".  Did MS innovate or they didn't? 

    Second, the Surface Studio have been shipping a few weeks ago,
    http://www.theverge.com/2016/11/24/13740906/microsoft-surface-studio-shipping-support-line
  • Reply 135 of 217
    talexy said:
    "Great desktops"? I'm getting very skeptical about that. Apple is flirting with losing professional and creative users whose influence goes far beyond direct sales to them. The Pro and its "can't innovate, my ass" intro has been a complete letdown. If that's the kind of thing Cook has in mind, Apple might just as well cede this market to others and move desktop employees to the car.

    My wife's iMac from 2010 needed replacement. I waited and waited for an Xmas update. When I gave up and bought the latest and greatest last month it was shown to be an October 2015 model in the About This Mac menu. Pathetic. Apple, the new Phone Company. 
    You really want to live in a world, where something as old as one year is "pathetic"? Poor world. Poor you.
    I said that because the specific model I bought had a "NEW" flag attached to it on the Apple Store. After comparing it to previous specs, the only thing new about it was a minimal bump in processor clock speed, and a large bump in price. The fact that its ID was still listed as a 2015 series is indicative of how not "new" it was. I really resented paying so much more. 
    ai46dysamoria
  • Reply 136 of 217
    bkkcanuck said:
    If you watch recent Macbreak Weekly episodes you will see Leo Laporte with one on his desk that he is playing around with.... but what I notice is that it is not likely going to be very comfortable in either position.... If you lower it to a drafting table angle a keyboard in front of it is not going to work out that way or you will not be able to reach the top of the screen, and using a pen will only have you keyboarding with your body...... you will still have to lean forward to reach the bars at the top of the screen which is not going to be ergonomically very good....  Then if you put it up in an iMac position you are not going to use the drawing mechanism.  Now if you are drawing on a large board but not like a draftsman (i.e. freehand) it is likely going to be uncomfortable focusing on areas at the edge of your reach.  
    You could move the kb to the side or MS could offer an on-screen touch kb...  but using the pen is awkward as you must stab at the screen because you cannot rest your hand on the screen -- no palm rejection.
    I stick by my original premise that Apple is still closer.... A desktop can focus on what it does best, and an iPad can focus on what it can do best.  What I want is for the iPad and Mac to work almost as seamless extensions of each other when used together but not compromise their functionality when used separately.  It is almost as though Microsoft is throwing darts all over the place hoping to hit something directly, but the likelihood of doing that without work and planning.... not good.

    Yes! With a little engineering*, the iPad [Pro] could be an equal player with the Mac as a graphics tablet;  second screen;  custom touch I/O for AV editing, painting, drawing, CAD, drafting, writing...

    * Faster connection, more robust OS/App interface at both ends, more robust hardware for the iPad...

    edited December 2016 roundaboutnowdysamoriawatto_cobra
  • Reply 137 of 217
    appexappex Posts: 687member
    Great Tim, but now Apple must demonstrate it with a brand new Mac Pro and Thunderbolt displays for it and for a brand new Mac mini. Because I guess Apple does not want us to use the ugly LG proposal. BTW, the iMac and all All-In-One (AIO) are a waste of resources and a huge aggression to planet Earth when you have to discard a great expensive display after CPU becomes obsolete. Displays last many, many, many years more (about 20 years).
    edited December 2016 dysamoria
  • Reply 138 of 217
    danvmdanvm Posts: 791member
    macxpress said:
    bkkcanuck said:
    macxpress said:
    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    That desktop is still based on Intel's Skylake CPU which is a year old and the Nvidia GPU is also based on at least one-year old technology. Other than the 128GB SSD and hi-res touch-screen, nothing else is latest and greatest.
    You don't get it, it's not about the specs it's about the product. There are other ways to innovate, and Apple seems to have lost its way.

    So tell me, what's so innovative about this Microsoft Surface Studio? The fact that you can draw on the screen? The movement of the screen? Other than that, its really an iMac with slightly updated specs albeit still out dated specs before it ships. This thing isn't even shipping yet and has an enormous price tag on it, suited for a very niche market. 

    Quoting Steve Jobs...I think I'm gonna puke! This isn't Steve's Apple anymore...get over it!
    If you watch recent Macbreak Weekly episodes you will see Leo Laporte with one on his desk that he is playing around with.... but what I notice is that it is not likely going to be very comfortable in either position.... If you lower it to a drafting table angle a keyboard in front of it is not going to work out that way or you will not be able to reach the top of the screen, and using a pen will only have you keyboarding with your body...... you will still have to lean forward to reach the bars at the top of the screen which is not going to be ergonomically very good....  Then if you put it up in an iMac position you are not going to use the drawing mechanism.  Now if you are drawing on a large board but not like a draftsman (i.e. freehand) it is likely going to be uncomfortable focusing on areas at the edge of your reach.  

    I stick by my original premise that Apple is still closer.... A desktop can focus on what it does best, and an iPad can focus on what it can do best.  What I want is for the iPad and Mac to work almost as seamless extensions of each other when used together but not compromise their functionality when used separately.  It is almost as though Microsoft is throwing darts all over the place hoping to hit something directly, but the likelihood of doing that without work and planning.... not good.
    This is exactly why Apple doesn't make a touchscreen iMac. It would be stupid for them to do so. Its cool for a whole 5 seconds and then its just a very expensive touchscreen that you'll never use. 

    There is someone that don't agree with you,

    https://www.penny-arcade.com/news/post/2016/10/26/the-surface-studio

    I'm sure the Surface Studio is not perfect and there is a lot where it could improve.  Still, there is a lot of potential in desktops/notebooks with touchscreen.  But for some reason Apple decide to ignore it. 


    edited December 2016
  • Reply 139 of 217

    Those who keep on blaming Intel for Apple's excuses, I have two words for you: Surface Studio
    What are the sales figures of the Studio? That's the real indicator of success, is it not? 

    Depends on how you define "success" but that's a different discussion. It doesn't have to sell in massive numbers for the point to be valid: that it is possible to develop, advance and improve computers without a CPU update.

    Like how Apple just did with the MBP this year and the 5K iMac last year, right?

    Right. But not the mini or the Pro. Both waited years for their most recent update, and that was years ago. They only make five computers, and one of them is no longer being developed. Is Apple really only able to work on half its lineup at a time?
    elijahgdysamoria
  • Reply 140 of 217
    cubefan said:

    [...] if you want a Touch UI, get an iPad!


    As soon as an iPad runs Pro Tools or Ovation and has a big enough screen to show me a reasonable fraction of a session, I'm in. Until then, Windows computers are a MUCH better choice as touch-capable production tools.
    elijahgai46
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