No, Apple did not switch to USB-C on its new MacBook Pros to profit from dongle & adapter sales

12467

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 127
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,137member
    bsenka said:
    The fact that people CAN buy third party adapters does not disprove that Apple is looking to sell theirs. Apple makes a lot of thongs that you can also find from other manufacturers, they still want you to buy theirs.
    And let's not forget that many third party dongles have compatibility issues with Apple products, some of which can be down right dangerous -- a fact Apple has not been shy about promoting (albeit in their customers best interest). And that goes to the fact that the average customer tends to trust OEM equipment much more than third party accessories. Not to mention, why would an average customer walk out of an Apple Store without everything they needed? I've got some incredibly frugal friends who did just that based on the Apple salespersons recommendations, even though I told them beforehand not to do that as they could get third party accessories cheaper elsewhere. There's a kind of trust, that goes with expensive purchases like Macs, iPads and iPhones that tends to guarantee OEM purchases over third parties. That said, Apple has generally justified that trust by making superior, durable and reliable accessories, and customers are willing to pay for that peace of mind. Further, I have often gone head to head with Apple over the failure of third party products to work with their products. Without my technical understanding, I would have lost those contests, and eaten the cost of repairs, or Apple OEM replacments. The average consumer does not want to deal with those problems.
    netmage
  • Reply 62 of 127
    nhtnht Posts: 4,204member
    I have to disagree with you in the need for USB ports.
    I do a lot of travelling and often the internet connection is poor or even non existent. It is often expensive to use.
    So I take at least 1 USB drive with me, usually two. These are USB-3 drives. 1TB or 2TB in size.
    I can put three weeks of photography on them while I'm away on the boonies (or on an island that has no internet apart from via Satellite).
    I can also put a number of VM's on them. Are you really being serious to suggest that I would upload a VM of some 140Gb in size to a cloud provider and then download it when I wanted to use it? (This is a real world VM. It replicates the systems used to run a petro-chemical plant)

    In the words of John McEnroe, 'You can't be serious'.
    Then there is the 4TB drive I use for my TimeMachine Backups. That is USB-3. Where do you suggest that I connect it then? To a ghost?

    all of these are USB-A connections. Useless on the new MacBooks. So I'll have to fork out for a few dongles if I do buy one of the new MacBooks.

    Oh, and I forgot. As a dinosaur. I prefer wired (ie USB) keyboards and mice when I'm using the MacBook in my office when it is connected to two 4k screens.
    See, I have a very good use case for keeping USB ports.  I know that I'm not alone
    You are whining about a $35 USB-C hub from amazon that includes a SD card reader.

    http://a.co/bIR2ppi

    $20 for ones without.

    A TB-3 docking station costs more but gives you a single cable attachment for everything including monitors.  That's the last docking station you likely need to buy for the next decade as USB-C/TB3+ is standard for Apple, Dell, HP, etc.

    You have a dumb assed use case for putting USB-A on the MBP.
    macplusplusnetmagewatto_cobraDaekwan
  • Reply 63 of 127
    nhtnht Posts: 4,204member

    DIYDan said:
    People need to vote with their wallet if they don't approve with Apple's new chosen path of connectivity features. Since Apple decided to not put any USB-A and no memory card reader slot on their new Macbook Pro line we will be finding a different solution to use. Unfortunately, the Macbook's that are currently in service for our employees will be the last. Messing with missing dongles and purchasing new ones is not feasible. I wish apple the best but less is not more in this case!
    Buhbye.  If your CIO want to give up the $300-500 TCO advantage over a $35 hub then he or she sucks.
    Solichiamacplusplusnetmagewatto_cobraDaekwan
  • Reply 64 of 127
    appex said:
    Apple products are awesome, but usually carry premium prices. Apple should include required dongle-adapters at no extra charge with new MacBook Pro.
    I shake my head at the "if you can afford a $2K laptop you can afford an adapter".  Seriously? What kind of good customer experience is that? Especially when the newest iPhones ship with USB-A. But if we're going to use that argument then Apple didn't need to ship the iPhone 7 with a headphone adapter because if you can afford to spend $700 on a phone you can afford a $9 adapter. Maybe so but it comes across as Apple nickle and diming people caring more about the bottom line than a good customer experience. 
    There are so many different adapters/interfaces that can be plugged into those Thunderbolt 3 holes that if Apple asks you "OK, bundle which ones?" you cannot even reply to that...
    Nonsense, a few of the more common ones like usb2/3 and hdmi would have been a good compromise.
    netmage
  • Reply 65 of 127
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,594member
    appex said:
    Apple products are awesome, but usually carry premium prices. Apple should include required dongle-adapters at no extra charge with new MacBook Pro.
    I shake my head at the "if you can afford a $2K laptop you can afford an adapter".  Seriously? What kind of good customer experience is that? Especially when the newest iPhones ship with USB-A. But if we're going to use that argument then Apple didn't need to ship the iPhone 7 with a headphone adapter because if you can afford to spend $700 on a phone you can afford a $9 adapter. Maybe so but it comes across as Apple nickle and diming people caring more about the bottom line than a good customer experience. 
    There are so many different adapters/interfaces that can be plugged into those Thunderbolt 3 holes that if Apple asks you "OK, bundle which ones?" you cannot even reply to that...
    Nonsense, a few of the more common ones like usb2/3 and hdmi would have been a good compromise.
    HDMI? Why HDMI? That's a consumer standard. 

    Surely Ethernet is much more "Pro" than HDMI. 

    I need neither. I could have used an included TB3 to FireWire diddly, but I'm on the fence about whether I should be enraged about Apple not including one. 

    But of course, the crux is that actual pros either buy the previous generation or buy the new one after weighing options, and then get whatever supplementary tools are necessary. The end. 

    No whining about missing freebies that they won't need, or those that they will. 
    edited December 2016 chiamacplusplusnetmagewatto_cobraDaekwan
  • Reply 66 of 127
    mvigodmvigod Posts: 172member
    Apple did do it to make money. Simple solution was to simply have BOTH USB-C ports and legacy ports so people could use either type of device and simply put users on notice that future products won't have legacy ports so if purchasing new peripherals/devices think about doing USB-C in the future.

    Completely eliminating every single other type of port was not necessary and was a profit grab.

    Steve Jobs gave a speech and talked about what happens when a company starts to focus too much on profits and not enough on great products. He said it is a subtle shift and takes 5 years to start showing. Well guess what? Jobs died just 5 years and 2 months ago and we are now seeing it. Read this article and watch the video to understand and if you are drinking all the apple kook aid this might take the blinders off from Steve's own mouth.

    You might also watch the whole 1 hour video if you have time to spare and you will understand the genius and vision of Jobs from all the way back then. Listen to him speak and then listen to any speech ever given by Cook. then look at what Apple has been putting out and the timelines for the products where revenue is placed above greatness.

    Here is the link: https://bgr.com/2016/12/23/steve-jobs-quotes-profits-great-products/

    I'm a huge apple fan and own laptops, desktops, many iphones, many ipads and am just so disappointed with what I've seen out of apple the last couple years but more so in the last 6 to 12 months which ironically is exactly what Jobs said is when you would in fact start to see it all unfold. I want greatness and amazement from them again, not the mediocrity they have been pushing lately.

    I predict Tim Cook won't be the CEO of Apple in 2 or 3 years. Jony Ive will be gone in one or two years as well. Let's hope they find a great CEO to take over but sadly history has shown only one CEO has ever brought Apple to greatness.
    edited December 2016 sphericnetmagemacplusplusDaekwan
  • Reply 67 of 127
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,619member
    I shake my head at the "if you can afford a $2K laptop you can afford an adapter".  Seriously? What kind of good customer experience is that? Especially when the newest iPhones ship with USB-A. But if we're going to use that argument then Apple didn't need to ship the iPhone 7 with a headphone adapter because if you can afford to spend $700 on a phone you can afford a $9 adapter. Maybe so but it comes across as Apple nickle and diming people caring more about the bottom line than a good customer experience. 
    I agree. When I complained about the price of the new MBPs as I literally couldn't afford one, someone here said the solution was to simply hold off buying and save more. Some high end TVs (in similar price ranges to the MBPs) have moved many of the inputs off the back and sides of the tv into stylish breakout boxes. Apple could have provided the same elegant solution. Instead users were sent to dongle hell.

    Apple's adapters are far from premium. They are historically expensive (only the backlash brought prices down a little), poorly designed, often do not support some features, never sit harmoniously with the overall design of the machine and sometimes get in the way of other ports.

    Yes, they make a lot of money off adapters.

    Last week I was in FNAC and they had more shop space dedicated to Apple adapters than actual Macs.

    The last image in this review is not nice.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/dec/12/apple-macbook-pro-review-the-best-computer-you-shouldnt-buy?CMP=share_btn_link
    edited December 2016
  • Reply 68 of 127
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,174member
    spheric said:
    appex said:
    Apple products are awesome, but usually carry premium prices. Apple should include required dongle-adapters at no extra charge with new MacBook Pro.
    I shake my head at the "if you can afford a $2K laptop you can afford an adapter".  Seriously? What kind of good customer experience is that? Especially when the newest iPhones ship with USB-A. But if we're going to use that argument then Apple didn't need to ship the iPhone 7 with a headphone adapter because if you can afford to spend $700 on a phone you can afford a $9 adapter. Maybe so but it comes across as Apple nickle and diming people caring more about the bottom line than a good customer experience. 
    There are so many different adapters/interfaces that can be plugged into those Thunderbolt 3 holes that if Apple asks you "OK, bundle which ones?" you cannot even reply to that...
    Nonsense, a few of the more common ones like usb2/3 and hdmi would have been a good compromise.
    HDMI? Why HDMI? That's a consumer standard. 

    Surely Ethernet is much more "Pro" than HDMI. 

    I need neither. I could have used an included TB3 to FireWire diddly, but I'm on the fence about whether I should be enraged about Apple not including one. 

    But of course, the crux is that actual pros either buy the previous generation or buy the new one after weighing options, and then get whatever supplementary tools are necessary. The end. 

    No whining about missing freebies that they won't need, or those that they will. 
    Just to be on the safe side and because the cost was a pittance after buying my 2013 13" MBP, I bought the Thunderbolt-to-Ethernet adapter to keep in my laptop bag just in case. I think I've used it once to help facilitate a faster restore from Time Machine after I brought it home. I consider myself a professional who relies on their Mac and uses it as my primary computing device, and yet I've only used that adapter once. I wonder how many people actually use Ethernet on a day-to-day basis; and of those that do, how many are using it from the same workspace—IOW, they can probably leave the Ethernet adapter at their desk or have a hub or external monitor that contains an Ethernet port so that all they need is to plug in a single USB-C port going forward. And for those that do need to move their machine around and use Ethernet at many different locations then an adapter or hub isn't going to be a bug deal in terms of cost, weight, or complexity.
    Daekwan
  • Reply 69 of 127
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,174member

    avon b7 said:
    I agree. When I complained about the price of the new MBPs as I literally couldn't afford one, someone here said the solution was to simply hold off buying and save more. Some high end TVs (in similar price ranges to the MBPs) have moved many of the inputs off the back and sides of the tv into stylish breakout boxes. Apple could have provided the same elegant solution. Instead users were sent to dongle hell
    Wow! Just, wow! You're lauding the use of hubs for big ass TVs but then bitching about Apple using USB-C when you could simply buy a "stylish breakout boxes" of innumerable configurations to suit your individual needs.

    Yes, they make a lot of money off adapters.
    Here's is a small sample of the "stylish breakout boxes" available today. How exactly does Apple make a lot of money on these?







    It might be a good time to learn that while Apple is going all-in with USB-C on new Macs, that USB-C is NOT owned by Apple. There is no certification for USB-C that Apple controls. This is though the USB-IF.
    edited December 2016 watto_cobraDaekwan
  • Reply 70 of 127
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,619member
    Soli said:

    avon b7 said:
    I agree. When I complained about the price of the new MBPs as I literally couldn't afford one, someone here said the solution was to simply hold off buying and save more. Some high end TVs (in similar price ranges to the MBPs) have moved many of the inputs off the back and sides of the tv into stylish breakout boxes. Apple could have provided the same elegant solution. Instead users were sent to dongle hell
    Wow! Just, wow! You're lauding the use of hubs for big ass TVs but then bitching about Apple using USB-C when you could simply buy a "stylish breakout boxes" of innumerable configurations to suit your individual needs.

    Yes, they make a lot of money off adapters.
    Here's is a small sample of the "stylish breakout boxes" available today. How exactly does Apple make a lot of money on these?







    It might be a good time to learn that while Apple is going all-in with USB-C on new Macs, that USB-C is NOT owned by Apple. There is no certification for USB-C that Apple controls. This is though the USB-IF.
    Perhaps your post was a knee jerk reaction.

    I suggest you re-read what I wrote and pay closer attention to 'Some high end TVs (in similar price ranges to the MBPs) have moved many of the inputs off the back and sides of the tv into stylish breakout boxes" and "Apple Adapters"

    Should it be me proclaiming 'Wow'?

    Those stylish breakout boxes are included with the TV. The user doesn't have to go out and buy one. They are of course covered by the warranty and the TV manufacturer is responsible for them working correctly.

    "Apple adapters" 
    are adapters made by AppleNOT "Adapters for Macs made by third parties"

    Apple makes a handsome profit off its adapters. I am sure of that.
  • Reply 71 of 127
    nhtnht Posts: 4,204member
    avon b7 said:
    I agree. When I complained about the price of the new MBPs as I literally couldn't afford one, someone here said the solution was to simply hold off buying and save more. Some high end TVs (in similar price ranges to the MBPs) have moved many of the inputs off the back and sides of the tv into stylish breakout boxes. Apple could have provided the same elegant solution. Instead users were sent to dongle hell.
    "Dongle hell" looks like this:



    Got it.

    Oh, if there is something you want but can't afford right away then saving longer is the right answer.  
    edited December 2016 SolichiaDaekwan
  • Reply 72 of 127
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,174member
    avon b7 said:
    Apple makes a handsome profit off its adapters. I am sure of that.
    You're implying that Apple moved to USB-C—a standard in which they don't control—so they can "make a handsome profit off its adapters" when the use of USB-C effectively hurts their ability to make a profit from selling accessories that have previously been only accessible with an Apple-branded or Apple-licensed product.
    edited December 2016 sphericmacpluspluswatto_cobrachia
  • Reply 73 of 127
    SoliSoli Posts: 8,174member
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    I agree. When I complained about the price of the new MBPs as I literally couldn't afford one, someone here said the solution was to simply hold off buying and save more. Some high end TVs (in similar price ranges to the MBPs) have moved many of the inputs off the back and sides of the tv into stylish breakout boxes. Apple could have provided the same elegant solution. Instead users were sent to dongle hell.
    Oh, if there is something you want but can't afford right away then saving longer is the right answer.  
    If he can't afford it then clearly Apple has priced it too high for everyone. What other reason could there be for him not being able to afford it?¡
    edited December 2016 watto_cobra
  • Reply 74 of 127
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,314member
    macxpress said:
    Is there a reason Apple didn't ship a USB-C to USB-A cable in the box? We got a headphone jack adapter in the iPhone 7 box. What's the difference?
    This might sound really stupid to you (and others), but packaging? Apple is all about putting things in the smallest box possible and making it look pretty. That cable would have made the box larger. This means they'd need a larger box which means they can't ship as many from China. I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly why they didn't ship the extension cable with the 12" MacBook and new MacBook Pros. That cable would not fit in the box it ships in and they don't want to ship a larger box. 
    Completely absurd.  How much room does a cable take up?  They could put it in the same area of the box where they put the power supply, wound tightly.   Besides, while I haven't seen the latest packaging, isn't there "air" above and below the MBP?

    And while I agree with the thrust of the article and I don't believe that Apple changed the connector just to make money on adapters and cables, it's also ridiculous to say that Apple doesn't profit from the change.  Of course they profit from the change because even though you can buy cheaper cables elsewhere, many people will stick with Apple either because they buy the cables at the same time they buy their Mac or because they're nervous about third-party cables.   I have some third party Lightning-to-USB A cables for my iPhone and Apple recognizes the fact and gives me an annoying warning message.    
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 75 of 127
    sphericspheric Posts: 1,594member
    zoetmb said:
    macxpress said:
    Is there a reason Apple didn't ship a USB-C to USB-A cable in the box? We got a headphone jack adapter in the iPhone 7 box. What's the difference?
    This might sound really stupid to you (and others), but packaging? Apple is all about putting things in the smallest box possible and making it look pretty. That cable would have made the box larger. This means they'd need a larger box which means they can't ship as many from China. I wouldn't be surprised if this is exactly why they didn't ship the extension cable with the 12" MacBook and new MacBook Pros. That cable would not fit in the box it ships in and they don't want to ship a larger box. 
    Completely absurd.  How much room does a cable take up?  They could put it in the same area of the box where they put the power supply, wound tightly.   Besides, while I haven't seen the latest packaging, isn't there "air" above and below the MBP?
    What's a USB-C to USB-A cable? That would only be useful for charging. 

    We're talking about a male USB-C to female USB-A adapter, not a cable. 
  • Reply 76 of 127
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,619member
    Soli said:
    avon b7 said:
    Apple makes a handsome profit off its adapters. I am sure of that.
    You're implying that Apple moved to USB-C—a standard in which they don't control—so they can "make a handsome profit off its adapters" when the use of USB-C effectively hurts their ability to make a profit from selling accessories that have previously been only accessible with an Apple-branded or Apple-licensed product. 
    "You're implying that Apple moved to USB-C—a standard in which they don't control—so they can "make a handsome profit off its adapters" 

    No. And I will tell you exactly why. Why would I have to imply anything if I could just say it?

    I didn't imply that nor say it. You jumped to that conclusion all by yourself.

    If you had simply asked for me to expand on what I said, I would have (although it needed no clarification). Instead you got aggressive and ranted.

    Apple has always made a handsome profit off its adapters and still does. That doesn't mean I think (or am saying) that they went all USB-C to make money off adapters. A claim that is  ridiculous.

    If you wish to continue attributing these kinds of 'claims' to people who never actually make them, using lead-ins like:

    So what you are implying is...
    So what you are saying is ...
    So what you want is ...
    Etc.

    and then effectively putting words into people's mouths, I have no issue with it but you are not doing yourself any favours. 
    edited December 2016 macplusplus
  • Reply 77 of 127
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,619member
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    I agree. When I complained about the price of the new MBPs as I literally couldn't afford one, someone here said the solution was to simply hold off buying and save more. Some high end TVs (in similar price ranges to the MBPs) have moved many of the inputs off the back and sides of the tv into stylish breakout boxes. Apple could have provided the same elegant solution. Instead users were sent to dongle hell.
    "Dongle hell" looks like this:



    Got it.

    Oh, if there is something you want but can't afford right away then saving longer is the right answer.  
    If Apple made such a device and shipped it as part of the package, I wouldn't complain about it.

    'Saving longer' isn't the right answer. It is one of the possible answers. There are others.
    macplusplus
  • Reply 78 of 127
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,619member
    Soli said:
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    I agree. When I complained about the price of the new MBPs as I literally couldn't afford one, someone here said the solution was to simply hold off buying and save more. Some high end TVs (in similar price ranges to the MBPs) have moved many of the inputs off the back and sides of the tv into stylish breakout boxes. Apple could have provided the same elegant solution. Instead users were sent to dongle hell.
    Oh, if there is something you want but can't afford right away then saving longer is the right answer.  
    If he can't afford it then clearly Apple has priced it too high for everyone. What other reason could there be for him not being able to afford it?¡
    Perhaps this would be better:

    "If he can't afford it then clearly Apple has priced it too high for him. What other reason could there be for him not being able to afford it?

    That would perhaps make more sense.

    On the other hand, if you replace 'him' with 'everybody', it clearly changes the entire meaning of the statement. Was it a slip or deliberate?
    edited December 2016
  • Reply 79 of 127
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,619member
    mvigod said:
    Apple did do it to make money. Simple solution was to simply have BOTH USB-C ports and legacy ports so people could use either type of device and simply put users on notice that future products won't have legacy ports so if purchasing new peripherals/devices think about doing USB-C in the future.

    Completely eliminating every single other type of port was not necessary and was a profit grab.

    Steve Jobs gave a speech and talked about what happens when a company starts to focus too much on profits and not enough on great products. He said it is a subtle shift and takes 5 years to start showing. Well guess what? Jobs died just 5 years and 2 months ago and we are now seeing it. Read this article and watch the video to understand and if you are drinking all the apple kook aid this might take the blinders off from Steve's own mouth.

    You might also watch the whole 1 hour video if you have time to spare and you will understand the genius and vision of Jobs from all the way back then. Listen to him speak and then listen to any speech ever given by Cook. then look at what Apple has been putting out and the timelines for the products where revenue is placed above greatness.

    Here is the link: https://bgr.com/2016/12/23/steve-jobs-quotes-profits-great-products/

    I'm a huge apple fan and own laptops, desktops, many iphones, many ipads and am just so disappointed with what I've seen out of apple the last couple years but more so in the last 6 to 12 months which ironically is exactly what Jobs said is when you would in fact start to see it all unfold. I want greatness and amazement from them again, not the mediocrity they have been pushing lately.

    I predict Tim Cook won't be the CEO of Apple in 2 or 3 years. Jony Ive will be gone in one or two years as well. Let's hope they find a great CEO to take over but sadly history has shown only one CEO has ever brought Apple to greatness.
    I agree that the entire backlash Apple is suffering was unnecessary and entirely brought upon itself.

    Perhaps as a result of the backlash, there is now speculation on changes Apple has made internally on almost every level and how the changes may have influenced the newest MBPs.

    My personal opinion is that the decision to break with the 'present' and jump feet first into the so called 'future' with USB-C only Macs was not universal within Apple.

    I understand a transition to be gradual move from one state to another and the newest MBPs do not represent that gradual move. In that sense I fully agree with your opinion that a truly transitional Mac would have added USB-C TB to the existing port spread even if it meant having little or no change in size and weight. Dongles would not be an issue.

    The most important word in this post is 'unnecessary'. If I were managing Apple, that word would be keeping me up at night unless it was me who took the decision.

    Dongles are perhaps the most visible side of the backlash but these new MBPs have unsettled a part of the user base for other reasons too.


  • Reply 80 of 127
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,137member
    avon b7 said:
    nht said:
    avon b7 said:
    I agree. When I complained about the price of the new MBPs as I literally couldn't afford one, someone here said the solution was to simply hold off buying and save more. Some high end TVs (in similar price ranges to the MBPs) have moved many of the inputs off the back and sides of the tv into stylish breakout boxes. Apple could have provided the same elegant solution. Instead users were sent to dongle hell.
    "Dongle hell" looks like this:



    Got it.

    Oh, if there is something you want but can't afford right away then saving longer is the right answer.  
    If Apple made such a device and shipped it as part of the package, I wouldn't complain about it.

    'Saving longer' isn't the right answer. It is one of the possible answers. There are others.
    As a shareholder, I would mind. I think Apple has taken the correct approach here, as they always have, and I'm a guy who went through 3 major transitions from a PowerBook Duo, to a PowerBook G3 FireWire, to the first MacBook, MBP, to a Retina MBP. I'm very much a power user, but rarely use my external ports for more than external drives, for which I'd much rather slap a $4 adapter on the end of my existing USB cables, or replace them, than buy a dongle or dock. And while I do tend to use the Ethenet dongle a fair amount at work, I would hate to lug around a breakout box just to get that access. If Apple included a dock in the box, it would be lost on me, and I suspect many of their MBP customers -- data Apple surely has -- unlike the headphone jack on the iPhone which they felt necessitated including an adapter (something I also consider a mistake). Would it be nice to have? Sure. But Apple used to include a video breakout cable with their iBooks, and I told my friend to keep it, but she never needed it; and when she eventually had a need for it so she could hook up to her TV to run a slideshow of vacation pictures, she discovered she had thrown it out, and she had to buy a new one anyway. I would argue this is far more typical the case with the average Apple customer than those who need all the ports Apple is eliminating. 
    watto_cobrachia
Sign In or Register to comment.