The easy guide to switching from Windows to Mac

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 76
    SujeitoSujeito Posts: 16unconfirmed, member
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    Hyperbolic nonsense. I'm a creative professional and my desktop is a 2011 iMac (SSD and plenty of RAM and VRAM), it's still a good machine for software development, running VMs, IDEs, Creative Suite, etc. 

    As for your photo & video editing, I'd love to hear why even the current iMac is unable to run your needed software, specifically. If I'm running Lightroom and Photoshop on a 2011, why can't you on a new machine?

    Also, it's not true that comparatively-spec'd PCs are cheaper than Macs. In fact the opposite has been shown to be true when building Dell pro desktops. 
    You're supposed to define "Pros" as narrowly and selectively as you want to win the argument. Pick some narrow use case where Macs are not the most superlative choice, define "Pros" as that use case, then slam Apple over "obsession with thinness" or "iPhone maker who doesn't know how to make powerful computers." That's how you prove the MacBook Pro is horrible and "Pros" will be switching to Windows en masse.
    To bad the same people don't get that the iPhone maker is making the most powerful computer to date. The same always on you iPhone computer. If we can bend Pro, we can bend Powerful.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 76
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,740member
    I really like Pages and Keynote is actually head-and-shoulders above PowerPoint but as a decades-long spreadsheet user, Numbers is all but unusable. If it's your first spreadsheet then maybe that strange paradigm will grow on you, but anyone that has ever used any other spreadsheet will find Numbers quixotic at best and inscrutable at worst. I've tried, but I've never quite managed to figure out what problem Numbers was designed to solve. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    edited February 2017 croprGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 43 of 76
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    john.b said:
    I really like Pages and Keynote is actually head-and-shoulders above PowerPoint but as a decades-long spreadsheet user, Numbers is all but unusable. If it's your first spreadsheet then maybe that strange paradigm will grow on you, but anyone that has ever used any other spreadsheet will find Numbers quixotic at best and inscrutable at worst. I've tried, but I've never quite managed to figure out what problem Numbers was designed to solve. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    I started using Excel since near its inception, Lotus 1-2-3, and possibly others that I can't recall. I've been using Numbers since it started it off as part of the now defunct iWork branding. I have no issues with it. Perhaps my needs are too simplistic that I don't require the higher functionality of Excel, but I do use plenty of calculations across multiple worksheets and other dynamic options more efficiently than I was able to do with Excel.

    Do you have any specific example that Numbers isn't capable of doing or that is considerably more arduous a task compared to Excel?
  • Reply 44 of 76
    anomeanome Posts: 1,492member
    When someone, somewhere, sometime comes up with a statistical simulations software for the Mac, please let me know. 
    IBM SPSS?
    Thanks. This must be fairly new. The SPSS website is currently buggy and slow, and their phone support is available only on weekdays. I have an email out to IBM support to find out more, as well as to some folks whom I think should be in the know. 

    Will let let you know if this indeed the case (although the pricing of SPSS, which runs into the many $000s, could be an issue).

    It would be so nice if there was a plug-in like there is for the Windows version of Excel.

    SPSS has been around for ages, we're supporting mainly as legacy. (We mostly use "Some Analytic Software"(tm))

    There are also builds of R for Mac, but as it's open source, I'm not sure how up to date it is. Worst case you install the Unix version, and X Windows.

    Likewise, you can install the aforementioned "Some Analytic Software"(tm) Unix/Linux builds, but you'd have to configure it as a server, and use the Web Apps to connect. Plus it's really expensive (although there is a student version, if you're a student, but it's mostly for teaching you how to use the proprietary software, I think.)

  • Reply 45 of 76
    altivec88 said:

    Ironhead said:
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    That was my first thought.
    I GUARANTEE that we aren't running any "Switching to Windows?" articles.
    That's too bad.  Not sure why that is considered such a hostile request.  I was thinking the same thing as some of the others.  After 30+ years, this is the year we start transitioning over to the dark side (windows) and such an article would really help out some long time Mac users.   Does anyone know of a good site that is similar to Appleinsider but on the PC side of things?

    Some of the comments on here are beyond ridiculous.  Guess what people, "Pro's" do different things.  Just because you are able to do your Pro things on a 1997 iMac does not mean every pro can.   Get over yourself as being the centre of the universe.  Others claiming that PC workstations cost the same or are more as a Mac is just plain wrong.  You can easily configure a 30+ core HP or Dell with modern graphics and faster DDR4 Ram for less than what you would pay for the antiquated 12 core MacPro.

    There are a lot of good reasons to use Macs but making stuff up or insisting that nobody needs anything greater than an old iMac is not one of them.
    What an utter delusional version of what has been said here. Troll nonsense.

    My point was very clear -- even a loaded 2011 iMac is a good machine for me as a software engineer professional, so those that roll out the troll-trope that "Macs aren't good for pros!" is 100%, pure bunk. Nonsense. Despite your delusional claims, I never claimed my uses were your uses, or that nobody needs anything faster. Please quote me if you feel otherwise. I'll wait. Rather, I pointed out that it's BS to claim that Macs aren't for pros, because there are a shit-ton of us doing our pro work just fine here. I use a 2011 iMac and a 2014 rMBP and do enterprise professional software dev without issue. 

    There have been plenty of articles showing how equipping Dells to mimic Macs costs more.

    So no, nobody is "making things up" -- that's just your troll hater narrative showing its true colors.

    As for expecting a mac enthusiast site to produce for you a guide to switching to Windows -- just more evidence of trolling this site. Nobody in their right mind would ask or expect such a thing. Go find a Windows site, there are plenty and if you can't find one then it doesn't speak well for your abilities.
    I get it now.  Someone made a statement that Apple's Pro computers are no longer good enough for them so you feel your "pro-ness" is being challenged because you don't need more power.    As mentioned, its not about you.  People comment about their own problems.  I agree a lot of "pro's" don't gain anything with a faster machine but there is another subset of "pros" that gain tremendously by increased CPU, or GPU, or PCI slots or whatever it is that they need.  We are the "pro's" that are complaining and leaving.  Apple just isn't keeping up with its competitors anymore for those of us requiring the highest end MacPro level machines.

    It doesn't take plenty of articles to go to Dell's website and configure a workstation.  So yah, if you are saying that a MacPro specs out and/or prices out favourably to a Dell or HP workstation then you are lying.  The facts for everyone to see is just a click away. www.dell.com.  I suggest you check it out so you can have some facts next time you want to call someone a troll (or should I just report you for name calling like you do to others).

    I'm not sure who you think you are?   You've attack everyone trying to have a civil conversation by peddling your myopic views and insisting their problems and wants aren't real or warranted.   Before calling people trolls, you should check out its definition because its very evident who the troll is.

    As for me trolling the site.  I never knew we were stuck in the 90's where its Apple or die.   Computers are just tools. Some tools are better suited for certain tasks than others. Do you get this way when someone wants to try out a different screw driver.  Is it not possible to live in a world where you can be an Apple enthusiast and use windows too.  God forbid that I can use some help on how to introduce some windows machines into our company from a Mac perspective.  I see nothing wrong with that request.
  • Reply 46 of 76

    It's about GPUs, stupid.
    And yet, Davinci Resolve has some features that are Mac OS-only, correct?  I guess those must not matter to you?

    It's about GPUs, stupid.
    And yet, Davinci Resolve has some features that are Mac OS-only, correct?  I guess those must not matter to you?

    Support for the silly touch bar on the new MBPs, yes. But that's an irrelevant feature for someone used to hot key combinations.


    Hot key combinations? That's really silly and irrelevant when compared to the Touchbar.

    Just because your specific needs are not addressed, doesn't mean other pros' needs aren't. Good luck with your Dell but stop trolling by asking for an article to port from Apple to Windows.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 76
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member

    It's about GPUs, stupid.
    And yet, Davinci Resolve has some features that are Mac OS-only, correct?  I guess those must not matter to you?

    It's about GPUs, stupid.
    And yet, Davinci Resolve has some features that are Mac OS-only, correct?  I guess those must not matter to you?

    Support for the silly touch bar on the new MBPs, yes. But that's an irrelevant feature for someone used to hot key combinations.

    Hot key combinations? That's really silly and irrelevant when compared to the Touchbar.

    Just because your specific needs are not addressed, doesn't mean other pros' needs aren't. Good luck with your Dell but stop trolling by asking for an article to port from Apple to Windows.

    It's also the dumbest argument against the Touch Bar since you can make a single tap or slide usable with a single tap instead of having to use multiple keys at once that weirdly include PF keys in your hot key combination.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 76
    Sujeito said:


    Ironhead said:

    Ironhead said:
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    That was my first thought.
    I GUARANTEE that we aren't running any "Switching to Windows?" articles.
    Obviously.

    Äpfelundbirnen is making some good points though.
    Really, and what would those be? All I've seen are common troll tropes:

    - he's owned macs since steve jobs was born
    - macs are too expensive
    - macs aren't for professionals (and obviously a pro is only whatever it is he does)
    - macs are too slow to run his "photo & video" software (yet Photoshop/Lightroom runs fine, and Davinci Resolve has a Mac version, so...)

    ...still waiting for those good points. 
    Maybe we can agree on this: Before around 2010 Macs where universally pro, though actually with the exception of CAD. Today Macs are semi pro due to putting design before features such as expandability. I used to own a Mac Pro 4.1, I considered buying an iMac or a better specced old Mac Pro but neither were justifiable investments given the hardware limitations. I like Davinci Resolve better than fcpx and Premiere. Whether I run it on a Mac or PC makes no big difference in terms of the interface, but I can plug in multiple GPUs far more powerful and far cheaper than anything on offer by Apple. So I chose to ditch the Mac for my personal professional work because the Mac is not pro any longer by my specs. It might be by yours, but I know quite a few people having gone the same route or facing the same choice.
    For what particularly works for you, your company, integration or wallet, I have no say in that. Just get the better tool for the job, whatever that might be.

    But about Macs, they are what they always were. Never were about expandability just for the sake of appeasing the mainstream market. Just go through the recent history, there are many examples of adopting some ports whilr dumping others. Some failed, some became standards and some evolved. Not defending Apple, mind you. It's just that pointing fingers into what definitely is not true makes a point on the pointer.

    The way I see it, its the Pro capabilities mixed with the user friendliness  and durability reputation that made them climb the ladder. Never were the reviews on their machines about "superior hardware", nor the talks in stores or between mac users. It was about superior experience, hassle free, getting work done, in a pleasant and pretty way without being an IT guy.  Still doing the same thing.

    They may have a slower refresh on hardware, no surprise there. But again, it's not an outlier from their previous behavior.
    Sujeito said:


    Ironhead said:

    Ironhead said:
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    That was my first thought.
    I GUARANTEE that we aren't running any "Switching to Windows?" articles.
    Obviously.

    Äpfelundbirnen is making some good points though.
    Really, and what would those be? All I've seen are common troll tropes:

    - he's owned macs since steve jobs was born
    - macs are too expensive
    - macs aren't for professionals (and obviously a pro is only whatever it is he does)
    - macs are too slow to run his "photo & video" software (yet Photoshop/Lightroom runs fine, and Davinci Resolve has a Mac version, so...)

    ...still waiting for those good points. 
    Maybe we can agree on this: Before around 2010 Macs where universally pro, though actually with the exception of CAD. Today Macs are semi pro due to putting design before features such as expandability. I used to own a Mac Pro 4.1, I considered buying an iMac or a better specced old Mac Pro but neither were justifiable investments given the hardware limitations. I like Davinci Resolve better than fcpx and Premiere. Whether I run it on a Mac or PC makes no big difference in terms of the interface, but I can plug in multiple GPUs far more powerful and far cheaper than anything on offer by Apple. So I chose to ditch the Mac for my personal professional work because the Mac is not pro any longer by my specs. It might be by yours, but I know quite a few people having gone the same route or facing the same choice.
    For what particularly works for you, your company, integration or wallet, I have no say in that. Just get the better tool for the job, whatever that might be.

    But about Macs, they are what they always were. Never were about expandability just for the sake of appeasing the mainstream market. Just go through the recent history, there are many examples of adopting some ports whilr dumping others. Some failed, some became standards and some evolved. Not defending Apple, mind you. It's just that pointing fingers into what definitely is not true makes a point on the pointer.

    The way I see it, its the Pro capabilities mixed with the user friendliness  and durability reputation that made them climb the ladder. Never were the reviews on their machines about "superior hardware", nor the talks in stores or between mac users. It was about superior experience, hassle free, getting work done, in a pleasant and pretty way without being an IT guy.  Still doing the same thing.

    They may have a slower refresh on hardware, no surprise there. But again, it's not an outlier from their previous behavior.
    I think it's clear that Apple pretty much abandoned a part of the market that was served with the mac pro. The iPhone is just so much more profitable. I find it silly to ignore this shift and claim that Apple hasn't changed.
  • Reply 49 of 76
    SujeitoSujeito Posts: 16unconfirmed, member
    altivec88 said:
    altivec88 said:

    Ironhead said:
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    That was my first thought.
    I GUARANTEE that we aren't running any "Switching to Windows?" articles.
    That's too bad.  Not sure why that is considered such a hostile request.  I was thinking the same thing as some of the others.  After 30+ years, this is the year we start transitioning over to the dark side (windows) and such an article would really help out some long time Mac users.   Does anyone know of a good site that is similar to Appleinsider but on the PC side of things?

    Some of the comments on here are beyond ridiculous.  Guess what people, "Pro's" do different things.  Just because you are able to do your Pro things on a 1997 iMac does not mean every pro can.   Get over yourself as being the centre of the universe.  Others claiming that PC workstations cost the same or are more as a Mac is just plain wrong.  You can easily configure a 30+ core HP or Dell with modern graphics and faster DDR4 Ram for less than what you would pay for the antiquated 12 core MacPro.

    There are a lot of good reasons to use Macs but making stuff up or insisting that nobody needs anything greater than an old iMac is not one of them.
    What an utter delusional version of what has been said here. Troll nonsense.

    My point was very clear -- even a loaded 2011 iMac is a good machine for me as a software engineer professional, so those that roll out the troll-trope that "Macs aren't good for pros!" is 100%, pure bunk. Nonsense. Despite your delusional claims, I never claimed my uses were your uses, or that nobody needs anything faster. Please quote me if you feel otherwise. I'll wait. Rather, I pointed out that it's BS to claim that Macs aren't for pros, because there are a shit-ton of us doing our pro work just fine here. I use a 2011 iMac and a 2014 rMBP and do enterprise professional software dev without issue. 

    There have been plenty of articles showing how equipping Dells to mimic Macs costs more.

    So no, nobody is "making things up" -- that's just your troll hater narrative showing its true colors.

    As for expecting a mac enthusiast site to produce for you a guide to switching to Windows -- just more evidence of trolling this site. Nobody in their right mind would ask or expect such a thing. Go find a Windows site, there are plenty and if you can't find one then it doesn't speak well for your abilities.


    As for me trolling the site.  I never knew we were stuck in the 90's where its Apple or die.   Computers are just tools. Some tools are better suited for certain tasks than others. Do you get this way when someone wants to try out a different screw driver.  Is it not possible to live in a world where you can be an Apple enthusiast and use windows too.  God forbid that I can use some help on how to introduce some windows machines into our company from a Mac perspective.  I see nothing wrong with that request.
    May I ask what specific help you're seeking? "Moving" to another OS is not difficult, most destination folders have an equivalent name. It's just a bit time consuming since there is no official software from Microsoft, I believe.

    If you google migrate from Mac to Windows you should get Microsoft's official support page to help your transition. They make it seem more complicated than it is. That introduces them quite well.
     Check the "migrate to surface" page, a bit incomplete but more visually helpful and straightforward. Seems they took a hint from Apple.

    From my experience, Windows works alot better than it used to. Pretty stable actually. You may still have to dig a bit into the hardware configurations to get great performance. Plus, there is no more need for classic maintenance. As of 10,  Windows takes care of itself as OSX does, though there are still some minor annoyances popping occasionally that need your attention. Like, Defender (built in A.V.) always putting you on the edge of your seat , just telling you it really didn't find anything. Would rather it tell me only when it did. Minor annoyances.

    If you pretty much center around your specific software needs, I would have no fear in stability. It's just the OS navigation that might get ya. 



    edited February 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 76
    SujeitoSujeito Posts: 16unconfirmed, member
    Sujeito said:


    Ironhead said:

    Ironhead said:
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    That was my first thought.
    I GUARANTEE that we aren't running any "Switching to Windows?" articles.
    Obviously.

    Äpfelundbirnen is making some good points though.
    Really, and what would those be? All I've seen are common troll tropes:

    - he's owned macs since steve jobs was born
    - macs are too expensive
    - macs aren't for professionals (and obviously a pro is only whatever it is he does)
    - macs are too slow to run his "photo & video" software (yet Photoshop/Lightroom runs fine, and Davinci Resolve has a Mac version, so...)

    ...still waiting for those good points. 
    Maybe we can agree on this: Before around 2010 Macs where universally pro, though actually with the exception of CAD. Today Macs are semi pro due to putting design before features such as expandability. I used to own a Mac Pro 4.1, I considered buying an iMac or a better specced old Mac Pro but neither were justifiable investments given the hardware limitations. I like Davinci Resolve better than fcpx and Premiere. Whether I run it on a Mac or PC makes no big difference in terms of the interface, but I can plug in multiple GPUs far more powerful and far cheaper than anything on offer by Apple. So I chose to ditch the Mac for my personal professional work because the Mac is not pro any longer by my specs. It might be by yours, but I know quite a few people having gone the same route or facing the same choice.
    For what particularly works for you, your company, integration or wallet, I have no say in that. Just get the better tool for the job, whatever that might be.

    But about Macs, they are what they always were. Never were about expandability just for the sake of appeasing the mainstream market. Just go through the recent history, there are many examples of adopting some ports whilr dumping others. Some failed, some became standards and some evolved. Not defending Apple, mind you. It's just that pointing fingers into what definitely is not true makes a point on the pointer.

    The way I see it, its the Pro capabilities mixed with the user friendliness  and durability reputation that made them climb the ladder. Never were the reviews on their machines about "superior hardware", nor the talks in stores or between mac users. It was about superior experience, hassle free, getting work done, in a pleasant and pretty way without being an IT guy.  Still doing the same thing.

    They may have a slower refresh on hardware, no surprise there. But again, it's not an outlier from their previous behavior.
    Sujeito said:


    Ironhead said:

    Ironhead said:
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    That was my first thought.
    I GUARANTEE that we aren't running any "Switching to Windows?" articles.
    Obviously.

    Äpfelundbirnen is making some good points though.
    Really, and what would those be? All I've seen are common troll tropes:

    - he's owned macs since steve jobs was born
    - macs are too expensive
    - macs aren't for professionals (and obviously a pro is only whatever it is he does)
    - macs are too slow to run his "photo & video" software (yet Photoshop/Lightroom runs fine, and Davinci Resolve has a Mac version, so...)

    ...still waiting for those good points. 
    Maybe we can agree on this: Before around 2010 Macs where universally pro, though actually with the exception of CAD. Today Macs are semi pro due to putting design before features such as expandability. I used to own a Mac Pro 4.1, I considered buying an iMac or a better specced old Mac Pro but neither were justifiable investments given the hardware limitations. I like Davinci Resolve better than fcpx and Premiere. Whether I run it on a Mac or PC makes no big difference in terms of the interface, but I can plug in multiple GPUs far more powerful and far cheaper than anything on offer by Apple. So I chose to ditch the Mac for my personal professional work because the Mac is not pro any longer by my specs. It might be by yours, but I know quite a few people having gone the same route or facing the same choice.
    For what particularly works for you, your company, integration or wallet, I have no say in that. Just get the better tool for the job, whatever that might be.

    But about Macs, they are what they always were. Never were about expandability just for the sake of appeasing the mainstream market. Just go through the recent history, there are many examples of adopting some ports whilr dumping others. Some failed, some became standards and some evolved. Not defending Apple, mind you. It's just that pointing fingers into what definitely is not true makes a point on the pointer.

    The way I see it, its the Pro capabilities mixed with the user friendliness  and durability reputation that made them climb the ladder. Never were the reviews on their machines about "superior hardware", nor the talks in stores or between mac users. It was about superior experience, hassle free, getting work done, in a pleasant and pretty way without being an IT guy.  Still doing the same thing.

    They may have a slower refresh on hardware, no surprise there. But again, it's not an outlier from their previous behavior.
    I think it's clear that Apple pretty much abandoned a part of the market that was served with the mac pro. The iPhone is just so much more profitable. I find it silly to ignore this shift and claim that Apple hasn't changed.
    I do think Apple changed. I do not believe they've abandoned the pro market. Yet.

    They released the Mac pro which clearly took a long and careful development. Still is a beast. They 've been actively developing Logic X and FCP X with bugs, features, plugins, remote control apps, system wide integration and recently introduced a thing called touch bar which is clearly also aimed at pro users that in a few years will be standard practice across all apps and users. 

    I'd say the evidence is contrary to abandoning the pro market. They are merging the most popular and commmon pro markets with the general consumer market. 

    May not fit you, fair enough. But that does not equate to pro market abandonment.


    edited February 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 76
    croprcropr Posts: 1,100member
    Soli said:
    john.b said:
    I really like Pages and Keynote is actually head-and-shoulders above PowerPoint but as a decades-long spreadsheet user, Numbers is all but unusable. If it's your first spreadsheet then maybe that strange paradigm will grow on you, but anyone that has ever used any other spreadsheet will find Numbers quixotic at best and inscrutable at worst. I've tried, but I've never quite managed to figure out what problem Numbers was designed to solve. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    I started using Excel since near its inception, Lotus 1-2-3, and possibly others that I can't recall. I've been using Numbers since it started it off as part of the now defunct iWork branding. I have no issues with it. Perhaps my needs are too simplistic that I don't require the higher functionality of Excel, but I do use plenty of calculations across multiple worksheets and other dynamic options more efficiently than I was able to do with Excel.

    Do you have any specific example that Numbers isn't capable of doing or that is considerably more arduous a task compared to Excel?
    Numbers has no pivot tables and no links to other Numbers files.  These 2 features are show stoppers in a business environment. 

    And Numbers has a very dangerous design bug. If a big number takes more space than the width of the cell, Numbers chops off the digits at the right side without any indication that the number does not fit the cell, and the user might assume that the number is actually much smaller (this is really horrible).  Just type the formula =fact(50)   and you see the bug in action.   Typing the same formula in Excel of LibreOffice Calc and you get what you should get.

    Numbers is just a toy, by no means a professional spreadsheet program.  If I would rate Mac spreadsheet programs, Numbers gets  3/10,  Excel  9/10 and LibreOffice Calc 7/10
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 52 of 76
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,575member
    Soli said:
    john.b said:
    I really like Pages and Keynote is actually head-and-shoulders above PowerPoint but as a decades-long spreadsheet user, Numbers is all but unusable. If it's your first spreadsheet then maybe that strange paradigm will grow on you, but anyone that has ever used any other spreadsheet will find Numbers quixotic at best and inscrutable at worst. I've tried, but I've never quite managed to figure out what problem Numbers was designed to solve. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    I started using Excel since near its inception, Lotus 1-2-3, and possibly others that I can't recall. I've been using Numbers since it started it off as part of the now defunct iWork branding. I have no issues with it. Perhaps my needs are too simplistic that I don't require the higher functionality of Excel, but I do use plenty of calculations across multiple worksheets and other dynamic options more efficiently than I was able to do with Excel.

    Do you have any specific example that Numbers isn't capable of doing or that is considerably more arduous a task compared to Excel?
    Oh, all this talk of spread sheets makes me miss VisiCalc! from VisiCorp  :)
  • Reply 53 of 76
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,575member
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    Hyperbolic nonsense. I'm a creative professional and my desktop is a 2011 iMac (SSD and plenty of RAM and VRAM), it's still a good machine for software development, running VMs, IDEs, Creative Suite, etc. 

    As for your photo & video editing, I'd love to hear why even the current iMac is unable to run your needed software, specifically. If I'm running Lightroom and Photoshop on a 2011, why can't you on a new machine?

    Also, it's not true that comparatively-spec'd PCs are cheaper than Macs. In fact the opposite has been shown to be true when building Dell pro desktops. 
    You're supposed to define "Pros" as narrowly and selectively as you want to win the argument. Pick some narrow use case where Macs are not the most superlative choice, define "Pros" as that use case, then slam Apple over "obsession with thinness" or "iPhone maker who doesn't know how to make powerful computers." That's how you prove the MacBook Pro is horrible and "Pros" will be switching to Windows en masse.
    LOL, well said.  Plus to win that argument don't forget you also have to keep harping on the Mac Pro is abandoned and dead.  I told my mid range 6 core new Mac Pro  with its 18 TB of RAID 0 Thunderbolt externals this morning it was abandoned and dead as it ripped through 4 K video in real time, it was quite shocked!  It sulkily booted into Windows 10 Anniversary, loaded AMD's latest Crimson drivers and fired up the dual GPUs in Catalyst, loaded Direct X 11 and blasted GTA V at +60 f.p.s. at maxed out graphics quality on 2560 x 1440 just to get over knowing it was useless.  
    edited February 2017 StrangeDayswatto_cobraRayz2016anome
  • Reply 54 of 76
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,447member
    altivec88 said:
    altivec88 said:

    Ironhead said:
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    That was my first thought.
    I GUARANTEE that we aren't running any "Switching to Windows?" articles.
    That's too bad.  Not sure why that is considered such a hostile request.  I was thinking the same thing as some of the others.  After 30+ years, this is the year we start transitioning over to the dark side (windows) and such an article would really help out some long time Mac users.   Does anyone know of a good site that is similar to Appleinsider but on the PC side of things?

    Some of the comments on here are beyond ridiculous.  Guess what people, "Pro's" do different things.  Just because you are able to do your Pro things on a 1997 iMac does not mean every pro can.   Get over yourself as being the centre of the universe.  Others claiming that PC workstations cost the same or are more as a Mac is just plain wrong.  You can easily configure a 30+ core HP or Dell with modern graphics and faster DDR4 Ram for less than what you would pay for the antiquated 12 core MacPro.

    There are a lot of good reasons to use Macs but making stuff up or insisting that nobody needs anything greater than an old iMac is not one of them.
    What an utter delusional version of what has been said here. Troll nonsense.

    My point was very clear -- even a loaded 2011 iMac is a good machine for me as a software engineer professional, so those that roll out the troll-trope that "Macs aren't good for pros!" is 100%, pure bunk. Nonsense. Despite your delusional claims, I never claimed my uses were your uses, or that nobody needs anything faster. Please quote me if you feel otherwise. I'll wait. Rather, I pointed out that it's BS to claim that Macs aren't for pros, because there are a shit-ton of us doing our pro work just fine here. I use a 2011 iMac and a 2014 rMBP and do enterprise professional software dev without issue. 

    There have been plenty of articles showing how equipping Dells to mimic Macs costs more.

    So no, nobody is "making things up" -- that's just your troll hater narrative showing its true colors.

    As for expecting a mac enthusiast site to produce for you a guide to switching to Windows -- just more evidence of trolling this site. Nobody in their right mind would ask or expect such a thing. Go find a Windows site, there are plenty and if you can't find one then it doesn't speak well for your abilities.
    I get it now.  Someone made a statement that Apple's Pro computers are no longer good enough for them so you feel your "pro-ness" is being challenged because you don't need more power.    As mentioned, its not about you.  People comment about their own problems.  I agree a lot of "pro's" don't gain anything with a faster machine but there is another subset of "pros" that gain tremendously by increased CPU, or GPU, or PCI slots or whatever it is that they need.  We are the "pro's" that are complaining and leaving.  Apple just isn't keeping up with its competitors anymore for those of us requiring the highest end MacPro level machines.

    It doesn't take plenty of articles to go to Dell's website and configure a workstation.  So yah, if you are saying that a MacPro specs out and/or prices out favourably to a Dell or HP workstation then you are lying.  The facts for everyone to see is just a click away. www.dell.com.  I suggest you check it out so you can have some facts next time you want to call someone a troll (or should I just report you for name calling like you do to others).

    I'm not sure who you think you are?   You've attack everyone trying to have a civil conversation by peddling your myopic views and insisting their problems and wants aren't real or warranted.   Before calling people trolls, you should check out its definition because its very evident who the troll is.

    As for me trolling the site.  I never knew we were stuck in the 90's where its Apple or die.   Computers are just tools. Some tools are better suited for certain tasks than others. Do you get this way when someone wants to try out a different screw driver.  Is it not possible to live in a world where you can be an Apple enthusiast and use windows too.  God forbid that I can use some help on how to introduce some windows machines into our company from a Mac perspective.  I see nothing wrong with that request.
    I don't attack anybody. I only point out nonsense arguments -- and you made the nonsensical claim that I said "nobody needs anything greater than an old iMac". That is factual false -- bunk. I asked you to quote where I said that. But if you cannot, then please admit you twisted reality in order to support your own narrative.

    Please spec out a Dell that compares to a MBP for us. Thanks.

    And yes -- complaining that an apple site won't produce a guide to switching to Windows is the very definition of trolling.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 76
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 10,557member
    I see that the membership here has once again fallen for a zero day troll.
    watto_cobrachia
  • Reply 56 of 76
    Too bad Numbers has no clue what a Pivot table is. Not moving to it is not a matter of how pretty the resulting spreadsheet might look like, is the lack of many functions that make Excel (and e.g. LibreOffice), Excel. 
    No Pivot tables, no Numbers...
  • Reply 57 of 76
    -hh (2017)-hh (2017) Posts: 4unconfirmed, member
    thedba said:
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    This is the AppleInsider forum. So I doubt they'll ever tell you how to switch from a Mac to Windows. 
    As far as you being a Mac user for 25 years, well Apple was a very different company back then. The bulk of their users now are mainstream. 
    As far as you paying more for a Mac than a similar Windows machine, that's an ancient myth. 
    Try speccing a similar windows laptop for example, with SSD onto PCIe with same amount of memory etc. And you'll find out that Macs are very well priced. Tried it also with MS surfacebook and found it to be more expensive than a similar MBP. 
    You seem to be looking for a new Mac Pro. I understand your frustration but in the end you got to go with the tools that are available to you now. 


    Reverse-switching?  A fair enough point.

    Ditto too about how Apple has transitioned to be more mainstream (lightweight).

    But unfortunately, the article loses credibility when it claimed "Photos is a great cataloging tool for images", considering just how much worse Photos is (even today) versus Apple EOL'ed Aperture and iPhoto for DAM (Digital Asset Management). 

    Which brings us to tools such as Adobe Lightroom  as a viable alternative to Photos ...

    First off, Lightroom is an OS-Agnostic App, so it is not a motivation source for a {Win -> OSX} switcher. 

    Second, with the demise of the likes of the Mac Pro (both the 6,1 and the older 5,1), there's not a motivation to switch for better hardware either. 

    What it really comes down to is that Apple's historical strength (and justification to "pay more") was the elegance and integration of the overall Ecosystem, and because of the directions that Apple has chosen to go, this justification is now dead for many higher-end ("Pro") uses cases. 

    As an aside, contemplate also how OS X's "Mail" app is grossly inferior for productivity vs MS-Outlook. 

    As such, some of us really are looking to disentangle ourselves from a couple of decades of being a Mac customer, and that need will be serviced somehow.  If not by the Mac community, then by someone else. 

    ...and on a personal observation standpoint, my impression is that Apple's productivity apps are fine when there's only a hundred or two records to manage, but they increasingly show their shortcomings when you get to thousands & tens of thousands of records - - their DAM simply doesn't scale well. 


    -hh

  • Reply 58 of 76
    thedbathedba Posts: 710member
    altivec88 said:
    altivec88 said:

    Ironhead said:
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    That was my first thought.
    I GUARANTEE that we aren't running any "Switching to Windows?" articles.
    That's too bad.  Not sure why that is considered such a hostile request.  I was thinking the same thing as some of the others.  After 30+ years, this is the year we start transitioning over to the dark side (windows) and such an article would really help out some long time Mac users.   Does anyone know of a good site that is similar to Appleinsider but on the PC side of things?

    Some of the comments on here are beyond ridiculous.  Guess what people, "Pro's" do different things.  Just because you are able to do your Pro things on a 1997 iMac does not mean every pro can.   Get over yourself as being the centre of the universe.  Others claiming that PC workstations cost the same or are more as a Mac is just plain wrong.  You can easily configure a 30+ core HP or Dell with modern graphics and faster DDR4 Ram for less than what you would pay for the antiquated 12 core MacPro.

    There are a lot of good reasons to use Macs but making stuff up or insisting that nobody needs anything greater than an old iMac is not one of them.
    What an utter delusional version of what has been said here. Troll nonsense.

    My point was very clear -- even a loaded 2011 iMac is a good machine for me as a software engineer professional, so those that roll out the troll-trope that "Macs aren't good for pros!" is 100%, pure bunk. Nonsense. Despite your delusional claims, I never claimed my uses were your uses, or that nobody needs anything faster. Please quote me if you feel otherwise. I'll wait. Rather, I pointed out that it's BS to claim that Macs aren't for pros, because there are a shit-ton of us doing our pro work just fine here. I use a 2011 iMac and a 2014 rMBP and do enterprise professional software dev without issue. 

    There have been plenty of articles showing how equipping Dells to mimic Macs costs more.

    So no, nobody is "making things up" -- that's just your troll hater narrative showing its true colors.

    As for expecting a mac enthusiast site to produce for you a guide to switching to Windows -- just more evidence of trolling this site. Nobody in their right mind would ask or expect such a thing. Go find a Windows site, there are plenty and if you can't find one then it doesn't speak well for your abilities.
    I get it now.  Someone made a statement that Apple's Pro computers are no longer good enough for them so you feel your "pro-ness" is being challenged because you don't need more power.    As mentioned, its not about you.  People comment about their own problems.  I agree a lot of "pro's" don't gain anything with a faster machine but there is another subset of "pros" that gain tremendously by increased CPU, or GPU, or PCI slots or whatever it is that they need.  We are the "pro's" that are complaining and leaving.  Apple just isn't keeping up with its competitors anymore for those of us requiring the highest end MacPro level machines.

    It doesn't take plenty of articles to go to Dell's website and configure a workstation.  So yah, if you are saying that a MacPro specs out and/or prices out favourably to a Dell or HP workstation then you are lying.  The facts for everyone to see is just a click away. www.dell.com.  I suggest you check it out so you can have some facts next time you want to call someone a troll (or should I just report you for name calling like you do to others).

    I'm not sure who you think you are?   You've attack everyone trying to have a civil conversation by peddling your myopic views and insisting their problems and wants aren't real or warranted.   Before calling people trolls, you should check out its definition because its very evident who the troll is.

    As for me trolling the site.  I never knew we were stuck in the 90's where its Apple or die.   Computers are just tools. Some tools are better suited for certain tasks than others. Do you get this way when someone wants to try out a different screw driver.  Is it not possible to live in a world where you can be an Apple enthusiast and use windows too.  God forbid that I can use some help on how to introduce some windows machines into our company from a Mac perspective.  I see nothing wrong with that request.
    I don't attack anybody. I only point out nonsense arguments -- and you made the nonsensical claim that I said "nobody needs anything greater than an old iMac". That is factual false -- bunk. I asked you to quote where I said that. But if you cannot, then please admit you twisted reality in order to support your own narrative.

    Please spec out a Dell that compares to a MBP for us. Thanks.

    And yes -- complaining that an apple site won't produce a guide to switching to Windows is the very definition of trolling.

    FYI, I actually tried speccing a Dell XPS 15 similar to Macbook Pro and at least on their Canadian site it's not possible yet. 
    As for the 13" XPS, I find their site a bloody mess but trying really hard I came to something like this. All in Canadian dollars.
    Dell XPS 13" with Infinity Edge display  --> $1429 (This with Dell's temporary $100 rebate)
    MacBook Pro 13" w/touchbar $2299

    But here's the catch:  
    Dell only offers 4GB RAM while MBP starts at 8GB
    Dell only offers 128GB SSD and they don't say if it's PCIe or SATA (I assume the latter). MBP starts at 256GB SSD PCIe
    Dell offers a 1920x1080 screen while MBP is retina (2560x1600).

    From what I see  if we were to spec the Dell similar to the MBP that CAN$800 gap would close quickly. 

    If anyone has better comparison I'm all ears. 

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 76
    I'd be much more interested in a description of the reverse switch since I just bought a used Dell workstation for video and photo editing. I maxed it out with components I'd not even be able to put in a Mac, with the exception of an outdated Mac Pro. This is after 25 years of exclusive Mac usage. Back in the day the Mac was a serious offer for people like me. Nowadays I'd pay a multitude for an inferior Apple machine. It's probably my mistake to expect a smart phone company to deliver powerful stationary computers for creative professionals like I ;)
    Yet another myopic fanboy that thinks what they do is the only thing that can be classified as "Pro."  As a desktop, mobile, and web software developer, only the Mac has the ability to target today's major platforms.  For me, the macOS virtual desktop implementation "Mission Control" allows for productivity that cannot be matched on any other platform.  Setting up whole desktops for effortless multi-tasking is vastly more efficient than constantly managing individual Windows.  Windows 10 tried to replicate this AWESOME feature but fell quite short.  The new MacBook Pro's have some issues (battery life and dongles), but claiming they do not have enough power to serve a professional is total bull shit.
    Buddy, You have never run professional studio for world class clients. So keep quiet . I am also developer (last 25 years) on many platforms and I do run networked studio for business. When you read some IT books you can find references to our company. Our client is... I will not give name, but biggest educational editor in the world. Now go and reasearch and stop claiming you know better whot "pro" means. Yes when we used Macs 10 years ago (we still have that old hardware in storage) Apple was more focused on professional work. These days not so.
  • Reply 60 of 76
    normmnormm Posts: 653member
    If this article was really directed at potential switchers from Windows to Mac, it should have mentioned that Pages/Keynote/Numbers can read and write Word/Powerpoint/Excel files, though not all advanced MS features are supported.

    watto_cobraGeorgeBMac
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