Apple launches new series of iPad Pro ads as anticipated hardware refresh looms

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 80
    ireland said:

    ireland said:
    Not going to stop the knuckleheads who swear no one wants iPads anymore. There will be plenty more articles about the non-stop sales decline of new iPads because EVERYONE is buying Microsoft Surface Pro devices. Endless blah, blah, blah as to why Apple even bothers to produce iPads anymore.
    I believe it was a mistake on Apple's part to keep 16 GB as the base model for so long as 16 GB is too small storage for the device and it was an upsell tactic—not a tactic to make the best device and the best experience—Schiller and Apple's worst trait.

    Not really. Having an entry-level model isn't some devious "upsell!" tactic -- it's just having a cheaper entry-level model. You don't have to use it. You probably shouldn't. But my parents are very content with 16GBs on their existing iPads -- they dont do many apps or music and it's plenty for them.
    Yeah I disagree with this thinking.
    You disagree with different people have different needs? That's not even a way of thinking, it's a fact if life.

    That's why apple makes tiered product lines. One day people will be bitching about 32Gb as the entry-level -- when the obvious solution is to realize you've outgrown entry-level and will have to invest in the next up. But you can't expect to get it for free. Not unless you wait long enough for the spec to trickle down, anyway. Which it has, predictably. 
  • Reply 42 of 80
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,777member
    ireland said:
    You can stack several and create a tower.
    macxpress said:
    ireland said:
    The heck with new iPads.  How about an update to the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro?!!!!
    Patience. My idea is to kill both lines and replace them with with a new Mac Pro "mini" size device that's stackable and you can daisy chain as little or as many or them as you need for as much power as you require. And you can add-on things like RAID hard drive setups that also have the same case size and can join the stack. And the design is done in such a way that if you physically stack say 4 of them it looks like one standing piece.
    I'd rather they went back to a regular sized tower.
    There's no way you can put Xeon processors in a something small enough to stack. Yes, they've come a long ways from just a couple of years ago, but not far enough to make something small enough to stack. Plus, you still wouldn't be able to change graphics cards, RAM, etc. 
  • Reply 43 of 80
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    ireland said:

    ireland said:
    Not going to stop the knuckleheads who swear no one wants iPads anymore. There will be plenty more articles about the non-stop sales decline of new iPads because EVERYONE is buying Microsoft Surface Pro devices. Endless blah, blah, blah as to why Apple even bothers to produce iPads anymore.
    I believe it was a mistake on Apple's part to keep 16 GB as the base model for so long as 16 GB is too small storage for the device and it was an upsell tactic—not a tactic to make the best device and the best experience—Schiller and Apple's worst trait.

    Not really. Having an entry-level model isn't some devious "upsell!" tactic -- it's just having a cheaper entry-level model. You don't have to use it. You probably shouldn't. But my parents are very content with 16GBs on their existing iPads -- they dont do many apps or music and it's plenty for them.
    Yeah I disagree with this thinking.
    You disagree with different people have different needs? That's not even a way of thinking, it's a fact if life.

    That's why apple makes tiered product lines. One day people will be bitching about 32Gb as the entry-level -- when the obvious solution is to realize you've outgrown entry-level and will have to invest in the next up. But you can't expect to get it for free. Not unless you wait long enough for the spec to trickle down, anyway. Which it has, predictably. 
    A man trying to convince himself he's stating the truth and not his version of it.
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 44 of 80
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,074member
    macxpress said:
    k2kw said:
    entropys said:

    iPad has always been about how the tools we use for doing work change according to the work we need to do, and that in turn changes the work we do, to take advantage of the tools available.  

    While I know what you are trying to say, not quite. People adopt tools because they help them do the work they want better. They don't adopt tools that force themselves to do work a different way. Help is not the same as force.

    The iPad is limited by imposed constraints in iOS. A few changes to iOS with new APIs could fix that and actually turn it into a productivity tool.  The most important is a file manager to improve access to files. Those things workers use and share around. A file manager makes possible even very simple things like putting more than one file in an email. Pretty important for work don't you think? There are other simple things too, like windowing which with a bit of thought could work too. 

    Microsoft has based itself on its strengths and is working Surface backwards from a PC towards a productivity tablet. Of course that means as a tablet it isn't that good in comparison to an iPad. Apple is working from a very good tablet and working toward a replacement for the PC. At a snail's pace.
    I reckon though that Apple could turn iPad into a great productivity tool more easily than Microsoft can shoehorn windows 10 and an Intel chip into a lightweight tablet. IOS will always have a better interface for tablet use. But there is no reason iOS can't become a desktop class OS, built from the ground up for touch input and widely used lightweight applications.
    They need mouse support.   They added the smart connector and a keyboard to make it more laptop like, but not having mouse support make about as much sense as selling a laptop without a track pad now.    Maybe then the iPadPro will be worth looking at but now the iPP is over priced.    When they came out with the 9.7 inch iPP they raised starting price $100 (and if you wanted to use it as an artist its another $100 for the pencil.)   No wonder sales have dropped by half the last two years.    iPad Air 2 (a 3 year old machine) should be $249  (iPad Air 3 $350) and iPadPro $450 ($500 with pencil included) Then they will sell like hot cakes.
    No, absolutely not! You can't make a tablet a laptop and visa versa. It doesn't work. This is exactly what Apple doesn't need to do. Anyway you look at it, the iPad Pro is still a tablet and needs to be treated like one. As soon as you start treating it like a laptop (like giving it a mouse), you turn it into something it was never intended to be and it will end up be like all of the other hybrid devices...like the Surface Tablet, I mean Surface laptop, I mean well...you get what I mean. 
    Apple has already gone down the road of treating the Tablet like a Laptop by giving it a Keyboard.    They even gave it a pointer device in the Pencil ( cue Steve Jobs saying "a stylus").    So the quicker they get down this path the better.   And you can't seriously look at the Surface running Window 10 with 25 years of garbage  carried forward with it and say that Apple would make the same thing.   We will eventually see an iPad Pro with optional keyboard with touchbar and mouse.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 45 of 80
    appexappex Posts: 687member
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
  • Reply 46 of 80
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    They can add access to a file system without turning it into a Mac; the Mac still exists; what specifically would you like a USB port for? Sounds like you may be looking for a Mac—they are here.
    edited February 2017 StrangeDaysspheric
  • Reply 47 of 80
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    k2kw said:
    macxpress said:
    k2kw said:
    entropys said:

    iPad has always been about how the tools we use for doing work change according to the work we need to do, and that in turn changes the work we do, to take advantage of the tools available.  

    While I know what you are trying to say, not quite. People adopt tools because they help them do the work they want better. They don't adopt tools that force themselves to do work a different way. Help is not the same as force.

    The iPad is limited by imposed constraints in iOS. A few changes to iOS with new APIs could fix that and actually turn it into a productivity tool.  The most important is a file manager to improve access to files. Those things workers use and share around. A file manager makes possible even very simple things like putting more than one file in an email. Pretty important for work don't you think? There are other simple things too, like windowing which with a bit of thought could work too. 

    Microsoft has based itself on its strengths and is working Surface backwards from a PC towards a productivity tablet. Of course that means as a tablet it isn't that good in comparison to an iPad. Apple is working from a very good tablet and working toward a replacement for the PC. At a snail's pace.
    I reckon though that Apple could turn iPad into a great productivity tool more easily than Microsoft can shoehorn windows 10 and an Intel chip into a lightweight tablet. IOS will always have a better interface for tablet use. But there is no reason iOS can't become a desktop class OS, built from the ground up for touch input and widely used lightweight applications.
    They need mouse support.   They added the smart connector and a keyboard to make it more laptop like, but not having mouse support make about as much sense as selling a laptop without a track pad now.    Maybe then the iPadPro will be worth looking at but now the iPP is over priced.    When they came out with the 9.7 inch iPP they raised starting price $100 (and if you wanted to use it as an artist its another $100 for the pencil.)   No wonder sales have dropped by half the last two years.    iPad Air 2 (a 3 year old machine) should be $249  (iPad Air 3 $350) and iPadPro $450 ($500 with pencil included) Then they will sell like hot cakes.
    No, absolutely not! You can't make a tablet a laptop and visa versa. It doesn't work. This is exactly what Apple doesn't need to do. Anyway you look at it, the iPad Pro is still a tablet and needs to be treated like one. As soon as you start treating it like a laptop (like giving it a mouse), you turn it into something it was never intended to be and it will end up be like all of the other hybrid devices...like the Surface Tablet, I mean Surface laptop, I mean well...you get what I mean. 
    Apple has already gone down the road of treating the Tablet like a Laptop by giving it a Keyboard. They even gave it a pointer device in the Pencil (cue Steve Jobs saying "a stylus"). So the quicker they get down this path the better.

    We will eventually see an iPad Pro with optional keyboard with touchbar and mouse.
    The Pencil isn't so much a pointing device as a drawing, note-taking tool. Steve Jobs was talking about an interface that was not designed for your fingers: this does not describe an iPad with its touch-first UX and icons and buttons specially designed for fingers.

    While obviously it'd be silly of me to say your latter point (mouse) will never happen, my question to you is—why should it happen? If someone really needs such an interface, why wouldn't they buy an already available more complex computer-type laptop with its windowed environment and precise UI? And how is adding this feature to an iPad ever going to convince Adobe to build a touch-first full version of PS for iPad for example? Wouldn't such a move be perhaps the main thing that stops them feeling they need to build one? How does this bring change?
    edited February 2017 StrangeDays
  • Reply 48 of 80
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    ireland said:
    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    They can add access to a file system without turning it into a Mac; the Mac still exists; what specifically would you like a USB port for? Sounds like you may be looking for a Mac—they are here.
    So, why are you building a wall around the Mac separating it and protecting it from incursions by the tablet world?

    Jobs knew that the key was not in the product but in what the product did for the consumer.  A touchscreen tablet with a file system, available keyboard and mouse and a USB-C port would be invaluable.  It would not be a tablet.  Neither would it be a laptop.   It would be both.  
  • Reply 49 of 80
    ireland said:
    ireland said:

    ireland said:
    Not going to stop the knuckleheads who swear no one wants iPads anymore. There will be plenty more articles about the non-stop sales decline of new iPads because EVERYONE is buying Microsoft Surface Pro devices. Endless blah, blah, blah as to why Apple even bothers to produce iPads anymore.
    I believe it was a mistake on Apple's part to keep 16 GB as the base model for so long as 16 GB is too small storage for the device and it was an upsell tactic—not a tactic to make the best device and the best experience—Schiller and Apple's worst trait.

    Not really. Having an entry-level model isn't some devious "upsell!" tactic -- it's just having a cheaper entry-level model. You don't have to use it. You probably shouldn't. But my parents are very content with 16GBs on their existing iPads -- they dont do many apps or music and it's plenty for them.
    Yeah I disagree with this thinking.
    You disagree with different people have different needs? That's not even a way of thinking, it's a fact if life.

    That's why apple makes tiered product lines. One day people will be bitching about 32Gb as the entry-level -- when the obvious solution is to realize you've outgrown entry-level and will have to invest in the next up. But you can't expect to get it for free. Not unless you wait long enough for the spec to trickle down, anyway. Which it has, predictably. 
    A man trying to convince himself he's stating the truth and not his version of it.
    Nonsense. It's not even debatable -- Apple makes tiered products for consumers to select which tier is right for them. This is fact. No single person's needs represent everyone else's needs. This also fact. 

    Anything else is tinfoil hat nonsense. (Like theories of devious upselling, or the absurd notion of decoy products)
  • Reply 50 of 80

    k2kw said:
    macxpress said:
    k2kw said:
    entropys said:

    iPad has always been about how the tools we use for doing work change according to the work we need to do, and that in turn changes the work we do, to take advantage of the tools available.  

    While I know what you are trying to say, not quite. People adopt tools because they help them do the work they want better. They don't adopt tools that force themselves to do work a different way. Help is not the same as force.

    The iPad is limited by imposed constraints in iOS. A few changes to iOS with new APIs could fix that and actually turn it into a productivity tool.  The most important is a file manager to improve access to files. Those things workers use and share around. A file manager makes possible even very simple things like putting more than one file in an email. Pretty important for work don't you think? There are other simple things too, like windowing which with a bit of thought could work too. 

    Microsoft has based itself on its strengths and is working Surface backwards from a PC towards a productivity tablet. Of course that means as a tablet it isn't that good in comparison to an iPad. Apple is working from a very good tablet and working toward a replacement for the PC. At a snail's pace.
    I reckon though that Apple could turn iPad into a great productivity tool more easily than Microsoft can shoehorn windows 10 and an Intel chip into a lightweight tablet. IOS will always have a better interface for tablet use. But there is no reason iOS can't become a desktop class OS, built from the ground up for touch input and widely used lightweight applications.
    They need mouse support.   They added the smart connector and a keyboard to make it more laptop like, but not having mouse support make about as much sense as selling a laptop without a track pad now.    Maybe then the iPadPro will be worth looking at but now the iPP is over priced.    When they came out with the 9.7 inch iPP they raised starting price $100 (and if you wanted to use it as an artist its another $100 for the pencil.)   No wonder sales have dropped by half the last two years.    iPad Air 2 (a 3 year old machine) should be $249  (iPad Air 3 $350) and iPadPro $450 ($500 with pencil included) Then they will sell like hot cakes.
    No, absolutely not! You can't make a tablet a laptop and visa versa. It doesn't work. This is exactly what Apple doesn't need to do. Anyway you look at it, the iPad Pro is still a tablet and needs to be treated like one. As soon as you start treating it like a laptop (like giving it a mouse), you turn it into something it was never intended to be and it will end up be like all of the other hybrid devices...like the Surface Tablet, I mean Surface laptop, I mean well...you get what I mean. 
    Apple has already gone down the road of treating the Tablet like a Laptop by giving it a Keyboard.    They even gave it a pointer device in the Pencil ( cue Steve Jobs saying "a stylus").    So the quicker they get down this path the better.   And you can't seriously look at the Surface running Window 10 with 25 years of garbage  carried forward with it and say that Apple would make the same thing.   We will eventually see an iPad Pro with optional keyboard with touchbar and mouse.
    OMG, if you're honestly trying to cite Jobs' ghost and equating his comments on blowing it with a required stylus to adding an optional drawing pencil, then you're either a troll or have little idea what you're talking about. 
  • Reply 51 of 80
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    ireland said:
    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    They can add access to a file system without turning it into a Mac; the Mac still exists; what specifically would you like a USB port for? Sounds like you may be looking for a Mac—they are here.
    So, why are you building a wall around the Mac separating it and protecting it from incursions by the tablet world?

    Jobs knew that the key was not in the product but in what the product did for the consumer. A touchscreen tablet with a file system, available keyboard and mouse and a USB-C port would be invaluable. It would not be a tablet. Neither would it be a laptop. It would be both.  
    Products are tools—we know this. They need to do things to be useful. Jobs was commenting on design not being an aesthetic afterthought, but integral. This line of thinking wasn't invented by Jobs when it comes to design.

    The real question here re iPad and the tablet interface is, how can things progress if we assume the future must look like the past. You can say it's not a tablet or a laptop, but the iPad is a tablet. You want it to be something it's not—a laptop type product (with a touchscreen): a hybrid. In your version of the future too much of the past is brought along in my opinion. My point is if you think you need a mouse and those things then get a Mac laptop. Otherwise get a Surface. Apple on the other hand could very easily choose to build their version of a Surface, but are choosing not to. It's not accidental.

    They are actually trying to break from the past. Apple want the iPad to focus on being an iPad and not to try to be something else or everything. The keyboard is merely to help those who may need to write for longer periods on an iPad. I don't think it's a the first step of many in turning an iPad into a hybrid. Consider a future where 3 out of every 5 people have an iPad-type device without mouse functionality. To get access to those customers companies will need to innovate and figure out how they can bring the best of what they do to this new touch-first interface. That means in years to come PS has at the very least a competing main touch-first + stylus interface. Without a break from the past such a future is not really possible. The product loses its focus on what it is. There is a certain beauty in restraint here. It may become clear to more people in the coming years.
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 52 of 80

    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    Yes, so "shocking" are these limitations that the ipad outsells the Macs 2:1. 

    Sorry, but ipad is a tool like any other. sometimes you need a truck, sometimes a car is fine. Calling it a toy is a troll trope that goes back to the first PCs (mainframe priests called them toys as well). 
  • Reply 53 of 80

    ireland said:
    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    They can add access to a file system without turning it into a Mac; the Mac still exists; what specifically would you like a USB port for? Sounds like you may be looking for a Mac—they are here.
    So, why are you building a wall around the Mac separating it and protecting it from incursions by the tablet world?

    Jobs knew that the key was not in the product but in what the product did for the consumer.  A touchscreen tablet with a file system, available keyboard and mouse and a USB-C port would be invaluable.  It would not be a tablet.  Neither would it be a laptop.   It would be both.  
    Because the leaders of design and software at apple (including Jobs) have told us specifically that they tried touch Macs and they sucked. different use cases. they've thought of anything you've thought of and tried it already. 
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 54 of 80
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,387member

    ireland said:
    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    They can add access to a file system without turning it into a Mac; the Mac still exists; what specifically would you like a USB port for? Sounds like you may be looking for a Mac—they are here.
    So, why are you building a wall around the Mac separating it and protecting it from incursions by the tablet world?

    Jobs knew that the key was not in the product but in what the product did for the consumer.  A touchscreen tablet with a file system, available keyboard and mouse and a USB-C port would be invaluable.  It would not be a tablet.  Neither would it be a laptop.   It would be both.  
    Because the leaders of design and software at apple (including Jobs) have told us specifically that they tried touch Macs and they sucked. different use cases. they've thought of anything you've thought of and tried it already. 

    Those leaders you mention, including SJ, explain that the reason was related to ergonomics.  He said that touchscreen notebooks "gives great demo but after a short period of time, you start to fatigue and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off. it doesn't work, it's ergonomically terrible."  
    http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10

    But now looks like Apple change their mind, and you see in the add the iPad + Smart Keyboard being used in vertical position.  IMO, the Surface Pro did the right thing by giving the user the option to use touch or the trackpad, and it's better than using an iPad in vertical position, something Apple already say it's wrong. 
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 55 of 80

    ireland said:
    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    They can add access to a file system without turning it into a Mac; the Mac still exists; what specifically would you like a USB port for? Sounds like you may be looking for a Mac—they are here.
    So, why are you building a wall around the Mac separating it and protecting it from incursions by the tablet world?

    Jobs knew that the key was not in the product but in what the product did for the consumer.  A touchscreen tablet with a file system, available keyboard and mouse and a USB-C port would be invaluable.  It would not be a tablet.  Neither would it be a laptop.   It would be both.  
    Because the leaders of design and software at apple (including Jobs) have told us specifically that they tried touch Macs and they sucked. different use cases. they've thought of anything you've thought of and tried it already. 
    Yes, touch screen laptops do suck.  They were right.  To have to reach up to tap the screen is not viable.

    But a tablet that can be EITHER a tablet or a laptop as needed is in a different category that Apple has never addressed.  Use it as a tablet to play a game, switch it to a laptop with keyboard and mouse to use Apple's Number's or Microsoft's Excel on it.   Yes, you can use spreadsheets on a tablet, but its as much a pain as using a touch screen on a laptop.
  • Reply 56 of 80
    ireland said:
    ireland said:
    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    They can add access to a file system without turning it into a Mac; the Mac still exists; what specifically would you like a USB port for? Sounds like you may be looking for a Mac—they are here.
    So, why are you building a wall around the Mac separating it and protecting it from incursions by the tablet world?

    Jobs knew that the key was not in the product but in what the product did for the consumer. A touchscreen tablet with a file system, available keyboard and mouse and a USB-C port would be invaluable. It would not be a tablet. Neither would it be a laptop. It would be both.  
    Products are tools—we know this. They need to do things to be useful. Jobs was commenting on design not being an aesthetic afterthought, but integral. This line of thinking wasn't invented by Jobs when it comes to design.

    The real question here re iPad and the tablet interface is, how can things progress if we assume the future must look like the past. You can say it's not a tablet or a laptop, but the iPad is a tablet. You want it to be something it's not—a laptop type product (with a touchscreen): a hybrid. In your version of the future too much of the past is brought along in my opinion. My point is if you think you need a mouse and those things then get a Mac laptop. Otherwise get a Surface. Apple on the other hand could very easily choose to build their version of a Surface, but are choosing not to. It's not accidental.

    They are actually trying to break from the past. Apple want the iPad to focus on being an iPad and not to try to be something else or everything. The keyboard is merely to help those who may need to write for longer periods on an iPad. I don't think it's a the first step of many in turning an iPad into a hybrid. Consider a future where 3 out of every 5 people have an iPad-type device without mouse functionality. To get access to those customers companies will need to innovate and figure out how they can bring the best of what they do to this new touch-first interface. That means in years to come PS has at the very least a competing main touch-first + stylus interface. Without a break from the past such a future is not really possible. The product loses its focus on what it is. There is a certain beauty in restraint here. It may become clear to more people in the coming years.
    A hybrid is a product where functions of different products are merged -- forcing compromise.
    A tablet that can be converted in an instant to a laptop as need arises is not a hybrid and does not necessarily have any compromises.

    So, how's that wall coming?
  • Reply 57 of 80
    danvm said:

    ireland said:
    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    They can add access to a file system without turning it into a Mac; the Mac still exists; what specifically would you like a USB port for? Sounds like you may be looking for a Mac—they are here.
    So, why are you building a wall around the Mac separating it and protecting it from incursions by the tablet world?

    Jobs knew that the key was not in the product but in what the product did for the consumer.  A touchscreen tablet with a file system, available keyboard and mouse and a USB-C port would be invaluable.  It would not be a tablet.  Neither would it be a laptop.   It would be both.  
    Because the leaders of design and software at apple (including Jobs) have told us specifically that they tried touch Macs and they sucked. different use cases. they've thought of anything you've thought of and tried it already. 

    Those leaders you mention, including SJ, explain that the reason was related to ergonomics.  He said that touchscreen notebooks "gives great demo but after a short period of time, you start to fatigue and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off. it doesn't work, it's ergonomically terrible."  
    http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10

    But now looks like Apple change their mind, and you see in the add the iPad + Smart Keyboard being used in vertical position.  IMO, the Surface Pro did the right thing by giving the user the option to use touch or the trackpad, and it's better than using an iPad in vertical position, something Apple already say it's wrong. 
    No, the IPad pro can be used either as a great tablet OR (at this point) a shitty laptop.   Once they add a mouse & cursor (and maybe USB-C and file system) it can be a great laptop as well as a great tablet.  There's no compromise.   There's no loss.
  • Reply 58 of 80
    sphericspheric Posts: 2,526member
    danvm said:

    ireland said:
    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    They can add access to a file system without turning it into a Mac; the Mac still exists; what specifically would you like a USB port for? Sounds like you may be looking for a Mac—they are here.
    So, why are you building a wall around the Mac separating it and protecting it from incursions by the tablet world?

    Jobs knew that the key was not in the product but in what the product did for the consumer.  A touchscreen tablet with a file system, available keyboard and mouse and a USB-C port would be invaluable.  It would not be a tablet.  Neither would it be a laptop.   It would be both.  
    Because the leaders of design and software at apple (including Jobs) have told us specifically that they tried touch Macs and they sucked. different use cases. they've thought of anything you've thought of and tried it already. 

    Those leaders you mention, including SJ, explain that the reason was related to ergonomics.  He said that touchscreen notebooks "gives great demo but after a short period of time, you start to fatigue and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off. it doesn't work, it's ergonomically terrible."  
    http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10

    But now looks like Apple change their mind, and you see in the add the iPad + Smart Keyboard being used in vertical position.  IMO, the Surface Pro did the right thing by giving the user the option to use touch or the trackpad, and it's better than using an iPad in vertical position, something Apple already say it's wrong. 
    Apple haven't "changed their mind". Steve Jobs himself introduced the Keyboard Dock for the original iPad - in 2010!


    To claim that the primary difference between iOS and Macintosh is the absence/presence of a mouse pointer is to PROFOUNDLY misunderstand why iOS even exists. 

    I guess it's testament to Apple UI designers that people look at the two and think they're pretty much the same, without realising that they actually approach UI for similar tasks from completely opposite directions. 

    That iOS has no mouse cursor is not a technical detail; its basic approach to UI means that a mouse pointer makes no sense. Adding one doesn't turn it into a desktop OS — it merely adds a shitty, redundant and confusing implementation of the abstracted UI already done well on the Mac. 

    Likewise, adding a touch screen to a Mac would add a shitty, redundant and confusing (not to mention gimmicky) direct-manipulation UI to a Mac — a system entirely built around indirect interface — and NOT turn it into a functional tablet. 

    The Apple Pencil does not violate this, because it's still a direct-manipulation tool, just one that's more precise than a fingertip. The interface remains exactly the same, just at a higher resolution.
    irelandStrangeDays
  • Reply 59 of 80
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,387member
    danvm said:

    ireland said:
    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    They can add access to a file system without turning it into a Mac; the Mac still exists; what specifically would you like a USB port for? Sounds like you may be looking for a Mac—they are here.
    So, why are you building a wall around the Mac separating it and protecting it from incursions by the tablet world?

    Jobs knew that the key was not in the product but in what the product did for the consumer.  A touchscreen tablet with a file system, available keyboard and mouse and a USB-C port would be invaluable.  It would not be a tablet.  Neither would it be a laptop.   It would be both.  
    Because the leaders of design and software at apple (including Jobs) have told us specifically that they tried touch Macs and they sucked. different use cases. they've thought of anything you've thought of and tried it already. 

    Those leaders you mention, including SJ, explain that the reason was related to ergonomics.  He said that touchscreen notebooks "gives great demo but after a short period of time, you start to fatigue and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off. it doesn't work, it's ergonomically terrible."  
    http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10

    But now looks like Apple change their mind, and you see in the add the iPad + Smart Keyboard being used in vertical position.  IMO, the Surface Pro did the right thing by giving the user the option to use touch or the trackpad, and it's better than using an iPad in vertical position, something Apple already say it's wrong. 
    No, the IPad pro can be used either as a great tablet OR (at this point) a shitty laptop.   Once they add a mouse & cursor (and maybe USB-C and file system) it can be a great laptop as well as a great tablet.  There's no compromise.   There's no loss.
    We don't know if it will be a great laptop, since as today, Apple has declined to do so.  Until then, the iPad + Smart Keyboard is, as Steve Jobs said, "ergonomically terrible". 
  • Reply 60 of 80
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,387member
    spheric said:
    danvm said:

    ireland said:
    appex said:
    Apple should release a Mac tablet. iOS is a limited jailed-sandboxed toy without an accesible file system and lacking USB port among other shocking limitations.
    They can add access to a file system without turning it into a Mac; the Mac still exists; what specifically would you like a USB port for? Sounds like you may be looking for a Mac—they are here.
    So, why are you building a wall around the Mac separating it and protecting it from incursions by the tablet world?

    Jobs knew that the key was not in the product but in what the product did for the consumer.  A touchscreen tablet with a file system, available keyboard and mouse and a USB-C port would be invaluable.  It would not be a tablet.  Neither would it be a laptop.   It would be both.  
    Because the leaders of design and software at apple (including Jobs) have told us specifically that they tried touch Macs and they sucked. different use cases. they've thought of anything you've thought of and tried it already. 

    Those leaders you mention, including SJ, explain that the reason was related to ergonomics.  He said that touchscreen notebooks "gives great demo but after a short period of time, you start to fatigue and after an extended period of time, your arm wants to fall off. it doesn't work, it's ergonomically terrible."  
    http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10

    But now looks like Apple change their mind, and you see in the add the iPad + Smart Keyboard being used in vertical position.  IMO, the Surface Pro did the right thing by giving the user the option to use touch or the trackpad, and it's better than using an iPad in vertical position, something Apple already say it's wrong. 
    Apple haven't "changed their mind". Steve Jobs himself introduced the Keyboard Dock for the original iPad - in 2010!



    The Keyboard Dock was in the market one year, and a few months after SJ talked about touchscreen notebooks and vertical screens.  Could it be that was the reason it was discontinued? 

    To claim that the primary difference between iOS and Macintosh is the absence/presence of a mouse pointer is to PROFOUNDLY misunderstand why iOS even exists. 

    I guess it's testament to Apple UI designers that people look at the two and think they're pretty much the same, without realising that they actually approach UI for similar tasks from completely opposite directions. 

    That iOS has no mouse cursor is not a technical detail; its basic approach to UI means that a mouse pointer makes no sense. Adding one doesn't turn it into a desktop OS — it merely adds a shitty, redundant and confusing implementation of the abstracted UI already done well on the Mac. 

    Likewise, adding a touch screen to a Mac would add a shitty, redundant and confusing (not to mention gimmicky) direct-manipulation UI to a Mac — a system entirely built around indirect interface — and NOT turn it into a functional tablet. 

    The Apple Pencil does not violate this, because it's still a direct-manipulation tool, just one that's more precise than a fingertip. The interface remains exactly the same, just at a higher resolution.

    Let's start by saying that iOS started in the iPhone, where it was clear that keyboard isn't useful.  But when you move it to a 10" or 12" device, then it makes sense to have one.  The iPad Pro 12" have the screen size of a Macbook.  Don't you think it would be nice to have trackpad for working spreadsheets?  Try to select multiples cells in a touchscreen and compare that to a trackpad/mouse.  It doesn't matter if you work in a tablet or notebooks.  The are applications where a trackpad/mouse is a better option.  Like SJ said, "vertical screens are ergonomically terrible".  And that's what Apple is forcing you to do with the iPad Pro + Smart Keyboard. 

    The Apple pencil is not a pointing device to navigate the UI . Is for drawing and taking notes, same as the Pen in the SP4. 

    GeorgeBMac
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