Apple unlikely to develop an Echo-like standalone Siri speaker - report

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  • Reply 41 of 72
    Soli said:
    fluffhead said:
    I'm not saying Apple should enter this market, but if they ever plan to a lot of work with Siri needs to be done. I have siri disabled on my iPhone, watch, and never use it on my mac because the time siri wastes trying to figure out my request I could have done it myself. 
    I don't know where the HW stops and the SW service begins, but Alexa is absolutely amazing in being able to understand my commands. Nothing found on the major smartphones even comes close.
    I suspect that is probably true the way Amazon datamines. Siri has become useless for me, personally.
  • Reply 42 of 72
    Echo sounds good on paper - a centralize device that search the answers for your questions online and play music. But that's it. The idea is simple, but very limited. The novelty wear off in a few months and the device is collecting dusts in the corner of your living room.

    Compare that to Siri, it's not visible but everywhere when you needed it. In the car, in the train, in the shopping mall, it's in your phone,watch and airpods. In the living room, it's in your AppleTV. In the kitchen, your office, it's in your Mac. It's not the main actor in all of your devices, but it's there when you need quick search, call up apps, control hardware and play your music. Its function is not as limited as Echo. It has potential that is very realistic.
    edited February 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 72
    I have 4 Echo dots, 1 for each floor of the house and one for the workshop. It's a nice idea and I use them daily but Alexa sucks but there are no other options.
    Adding skills requires you to ask Alexa to ask another app to do something. Too long winded. Also, she's very specific about commands.

    People saying this type of thing is a fad we're probably the same people saying the same thing about phones. It just takes a good company to add functions to keep this sort of thing current. Apple would be stupid not to add SIRI to people's houses to shore up HomeKit.
    ireland
  • Reply 44 of 72
    kevin kee said:
    Echo sounds good on paper - a centralize device that search the answers for your questions online and play music. But that's it. The idea is simple, but very limited. The novelty wear off in a few months and the device is collecting dusts in the corner of your living room.

    Compare that to Siri, it's not visible but everywhere when you needed it. In the car, in the train, in the shopping mall, it's in your phone,watch and airpods. In the living room, it's in your AppleTV. In the kitchen, your office, it's in your Mac. It's not the main actor in all of your devices, but it's there when you need quick search, call up apps, control hardware and play your music. Its function is not as limited as Echo. It has potential that is very realistic.
    My experience has been the exact opposite of your claim. While Siri is with me, she is in my pocket. 'Hey Siri' doesn't do anything while in my pocket. So I have to get my phone out, and once that step is done, Siri takes longer to complete a task than just doing whatever manually on my phone.  The one bright spot has been Siri in the car with Apple Music because I can ask out loud and have any song playing in seconds. The Echo at home is easier to use and ready to go at all times, and I use it every single day. More now than when I first got mine in 2014.  You are right about one thing though, it does collect dust, because I never actually touch it.
    ireland
  • Reply 45 of 72
    jimcord said:
    From AppleZulu:

    On the other hand, if Siri was controlled by an echo-like device, there would be no keypad or fingerprint sensor, because that defeats its purpose. In that case, with such a device sitting at the ready in your den, the response would be to turn off the cameras, disable the alarm, and unlock the back door. How very convenient!



    Folks, this kind of thinking is from people who have chosen to make Apple into a religion! Their thinking is done by other people, and any others beliefs must be wrong or it makes them feel or appear as if they have made a wrong choice in choosing a religion. Never forget, Apple is just a company who is out to make money off all of us, they are not our friend or family! Tim did not send you a birthday card or come to your wedding, he does not  care for you and your endless support of his company. Your one share of Apple stock will not provide you with retirement money unless it was the first issued. And I must point out, I have never owned anything buy Apple laptops and phones, I too was a rabid believer............then I woke up and told myself that I can drive a ford or a chevy, I can drink coke or pepsi or even use an android and the world will be okay!

    AppleZulu..............smarten up and do some research on other company products and you would realize that the fake news that you talk of is coming directly from your own mouth. amazon and the vendors that support echo have put in safeguards for the vary things you worry about. You just can unlock the door, you just can't turn off alarms.......I know because I have echo running my house, controlling the alarm system, controlling the front door lock, controlling the lighting(hue) throughout the house and controlling the HVAC of my house. And it all round fine without the fears that you are trying to spread. What I do no have running my house is Siri, the dead in the water Apple AI that is following in the same vein as many other dying or dead Apple protocols such as airplayLOL. So I ask you, if this is such a fad, why is Google jumping in on it? As for apple, they realize they have nothing to gain here because just like google, they have nothing more to add to the system because they do not have nor ever will have a amazon store connected to their systems. All if apple products that they sell are currently  on apple tv for purchase such as apps, movies, music...............everything else including these items that apple sells are all available on amazon!
    Put down the apple koolaid cup and realize that while apple charges you full price for everything, including usb dongles that everyone else provides on their machines, they are paying virtually no taxes on your money, yet you are busy sucking on momma apples tits as if she loves you and even knows your name!

    Rather than make poorly spelled ad hominem attacks, why not share what those safeguards are that you vaguely referenced? How does your echo device control all those things and allow you to issue voice commands, but others not to do so? I offered a possible scenario where an always-on AI device could be a potential security risk. In your meandering diatribe here you seem to think that scenario isn't plausible, but you really didn't offer anything to back up your opinion, other than an insult-laden "Apple is bad, but Amazon is good." If you have something better to offer, I'll read it. Otherwise, thank you for your input.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 72
    metalcase said:
    kevin kee said:
    Echo sounds good on paper - a centralize device that search the answers for your questions online and play music. But that's it. The idea is simple, but very limited. The novelty wear off in a few months and the device is collecting dusts in the corner of your living room.

    Compare that to Siri, it's not visible but everywhere when you needed it. In the car, in the train, in the shopping mall, it's in your phone,watch and airpods. In the living room, it's in your AppleTV. In the kitchen, your office, it's in your Mac. It's not the main actor in all of your devices, but it's there when you need quick search, call up apps, control hardware and play your music. Its function is not as limited as Echo. It has potential that is very realistic.
    My experience has been the exact opposite of your claim. While Siri is with me, she is in my pocket. 'Hey Siri' doesn't do anything while in my pocket. So I have to get my phone out, and once that step is done, Siri takes longer to complete a task than just doing whatever manually on my phone.  The one bright spot has been Siri in the car with Apple Music because I can ask out loud and have any song playing in seconds. The Echo at home is easier to use and ready to go at all times, and I use it every single day. More now than when I first got mine in 2014.  You are right about one thing though, it does collect dust, because I never actually touch it.
    Saying that Siri doesn't do anything in your pocket is like saying Echo doesn't do anything in living room when you are calling out in the shower room. It's beyond logical that one need to take out the phone to use Siri - or double tap Airpods when wearing them - not only because accidental activation is abound which annoyingly happened a lot with Alexa.

    Personal case by case aside, asking Siri to read your last email is 4 steps less than doing them manually. Obviously there are some tasks that are easier to do manually, but surely you should know that people don't use Siri to brighten their screen for example.
    edited February 2017 Soliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 72
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,289member
    AppleZulu said:
    mattinoz said:
    Perhaps they should open up Siri to 3rd party speaker manufacturers and part of MFI program and they can let others do it for them. 
    They could do this with an iPod Update. Add wifi and siri to the current iPod nano and every existing speaker dock out there becomes Siri and Apple Music compatible.
    At the same time if they can re-engineer the shuffle to add wifi then it could also become the basis of the MFI compatibility chip. 
    Seriously: 

    Editorial: Why Apple ignores so much pundit innovation advice

     
    Yes commenting but Apple is about as effective as dancing about architecture or anything really, but that doesn't stop it being fun. 
    I prefer Apple's standard email response to suggestions which says more clearly what that article says.

    So I take it you never liked the iPod?
  • Reply 48 of 72
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,415member

    I truly fear for this company. When the iPhone fades it's hard to see what is going to keep this company afloat.  

    I dont feel like Apple has had a SW or HW hit product in years. Cook keeps rambling about how amazing AI is, please just shut up and prove it. 

    Anyone that doubts the the efficacy of voice assistants for the home clearly didn't pay attention to the holiday season and the momentum Echo has. 

    Siri is not omnipresent.  I have 2 Google Home and an Echo dot and both crush Siri
    If you're truly happy with your talking Google and Amazon gadgets, why do you "fear for" Apple? This rumor says they aren't going to directly compete. Unless you think a talking speaker in your kitchen will somehow replace the smartphone and computer in the future, I think Apple has nothing to worry about.
    I wouldn't say I was happy but I do acknowledge that both systems understand vocal input and produce a better end result than Siri.  I use Siri everyday but it's generally the same old boring tasks like setting timers, alarms and sports scores.   Anything beyond these basic tasks and Siri falls apart. 

    The Google Home is ridiculous.  My wife can be outside the bedroom and down a flight of stairs and still be understood.   I think the thing to understand is that some of us have our phones practically glued to our hands while others like to put their phone down.   I could personally live with Apple's ideal of "omnipresent" which means owning an iPhone, having an Apple Watch and whatever device they wish to sell me but my wife simply wants to be able to get basic bit of info, control our lights and play music without having to search for her phone.  I've found the uptake from women for the Echo and Google Home is pretty solid coming from my own view and chatting with other men who are surprised their wives are so keen on these things. 

    As for Apple and worry.   If the iPhone tanks the company is essentially gone.  They are a one product company and thus they seem to be falling into the trap that other companies make. When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.   Apple's answer to everything is some iOS device. 
  • Reply 49 of 72
    eightzero said:

    Siri is not omnipresent. 
    I have Siri on my wrist almost all the time. That said, I don't find her very helpful or useful. YMMV.

    You obviously don't use reminders, timers, calendar, etc much then. I add stuff to my shopping list or set other reminders every day.
    Soliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 72
    lkrupp said:
    Of course they aren't making one. It is a gimmick, toy product. Meant as cheap gifts for tech hounds, but no real practical usage whatsoever.

    The entire concept is flawed.
    Remember just a year or so ago when Apple was being flogged for “missing” the VR stampede? Well that turned out to be a short lived fad didn’t it. 
    Not really. Why would you say that?
  • Reply 51 of 72
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,415member
    This is one of those situations where Apple needs to just shutup and realize they were asleep at the wheel. 

    Amazon proved the viability of a connected speaker functioning as an assistant.  Nothing Apple can say now will save face that a 
    company that crows about innovation being in their DNA missed the boat. 

    Amazon isn't the one Apple need to worry about it's Google.  Google will overtake Amazon based on its sheer knowledge of search and its ecosystem 
    that places Android in TV, consoles, Smartphones and more.  




  • Reply 52 of 72
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 3,052member
    eightzero said:

    Siri is not omnipresent. 
    I have Siri on my wrist almost all the time. That said, I don't find her very helpful or useful. YMMV.

    You obviously don't use reminders, timers, calendar, etc much then. I add stuff to my shopping list or set other reminders every day.
    I don't. My life isn't that complicated. 
  • Reply 53 of 72
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    kevin kee said:
    metalcase said:
    kevin kee said:
    Echo sounds good on paper - a centralize device that search the answers for your questions online and play music. But that's it. The idea is simple, but very limited. The novelty wear off in a few months and the device is collecting dusts in the corner of your living room.

    Compare that to Siri, it's not visible but everywhere when you needed it. In the car, in the train, in the shopping mall, it's in your phone,watch and airpods. In the living room, it's in your AppleTV. In the kitchen, your office, it's in your Mac. It's not the main actor in all of your devices, but it's there when you need quick search, call up apps, control hardware and play your music. Its function is not as limited as Echo. It has potential that is very realistic.
    My experience has been the exact opposite of your claim. While Siri is with me, she is in my pocket. 'Hey Siri' doesn't do anything while in my pocket. So I have to get my phone out, and once that step is done, Siri takes longer to complete a task than just doing whatever manually on my phone.  The one bright spot has been Siri in the car with Apple Music because I can ask out loud and have any song playing in seconds. The Echo at home is easier to use and ready to go at all times, and I use it every single day. More now than when I first got mine in 2014.  You are right about one thing though, it does collect dust, because I never actually touch it.
    Saying that Siri doesn't do anything in your pocket is like saying Echo doesn't do anything in living room when you are calling out in the shower room. It's beyond logical that one need to take out the phone to use Siri - or double tap Airpods when wearing them - not only because accidental activation is abound which annoyingly happened a lot with Alexa.

    Personal case by case aside, asking Siri to read your last email is 4 steps less than doing them manually. Obviously there are some tasks that are easier to do manually, but surely you should know that people don't use Siri to brighten their screen for example.
    Setting a timer or a calendar entry can take under 3 seconds to complete with Siri, but wth manually take a lot longer. I only use the Clock app via Siri so I have no idea where on my iPhone it's even located.

    One great feature with the Echo products is that I don't have to go into my iPhone to pair to the old, dumb speaker that I have in the bathroom. I can quickly switch from my BT headphones after a jog to the Echo speaker with "Alexa, connect to iPhone*" without missing any of a podcast or having to waste time to go into Settings and connect to it manually. This even gets more problematic with wet or dirty hands.


    * Technically all you need is "Alexa, connect" to have it reconnect with the last paired device, but I'm in the habit, and one day we might be able to name multiple BT devices so that it can be even smarter, like it can already due with innumerable timers which are great for the kitchen, while Siri can only do one.
    edited February 2017 mattinozhmurchison
  • Reply 54 of 72
    eightzero said:

    Siri is not omnipresent. 
    I have Siri on my wrist almost all the time. That said, I don't find her very helpful or useful. YMMV.

    I might try an alexa dot. For $40 it seems worthy of a try. But Apple is not going to make a $40 anything. Unless it is a dongle.
    I find siri very helpful.  It will usually answer my question the first time.  Anything from directions to weather to stocks to where the nearest pizza hut is.  All this bashing of siri seems unjustified to me.  
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 72
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,075member
    kevin kee said:
    Echo sounds good on paper - a centralize device that search the answers for your questions online and play music. But that's it. The idea is simple, but very limited. The novelty wear off in a few months and the device is collecting dusts in the corner of your living room.

    Compare that to Siri, it's not visible but everywhere when you needed it. In the car, in the train, in the shopping mall, it's in your phone,watch and airpods. In the living room, it's in your AppleTV. In the kitchen, your office, it's in your Mac. It's not the main actor in all of your devices, but it's there when you need quick search, call up apps, control hardware and play your music. Its function is not as limited as Echo. It has potential that is very realistic.
    I use Alexa every day and find it easy and enjoyable for the few things I need it to day.   It works in the one place its at.   Siri never works for me.. total waste of time to even try it because its just going to display a web search.    Siri's unfulfilled potential is a drawback for Apple.

    AI is really just getting started.  Hopefully Apple isn't ignoring it the way Microsoft and Blackberry ignored  and downplayed the iPhone.    Apple needs to come out with a totally revamped/upgraded Siri and a high end Home Hub for deploying it.   Apple's not going to be able to compete on price with Amazon.Amazon will sell at cost while Apple  always has the highest profit margin.    So the expectation on Apple will be to create a superior product to Echo/Alexa and Google Home.


  • Reply 56 of 72
    On one hand, Apple sells more iPhones in a month than Echos have sold in their entire lifetime. When you add to that the iPad, Apple Watch, Mac and even go back to the pretty much obsolete iPod, the idea that a platform that has sold billions of devices has to compete with one that has sold MAYBE 25 million is absurd. I get that Echo gives the tech press something new to talk about in a tech landscape that hasn't produced a new product in a long time. I get that the Echo marries IoT and AI, two areas that the tech media have claimed will be the next new hot world shattering thing for years, and in this way it replaces VR which was SUPPOSED to be the new big thing. If anything, the press probably WANTS Apple to enter this field - just as they want Apple to enter the VR field - in order to drive more sales and headlines. But until the Echo reaches 100 million regular active users - not just people who bought an Echo Dot because it was $35 on Prime Day - it isn't a platform and it isn't something that Apple has to take notice of. MAYBE it is an issue for Google, which is another company that has spent years trying and failing to be a factor in the hardware market. So Amazon has moved more Echos than Google has been able to sell Chromebooks (to actual consumers and not standardized test-driven schools), Nexus/Pixel phones and tablets, Android TV/Google TV units, Android Wear watches, smart routers, smart speakers, Google Glass and Google Cardboard/Daydream units. Fine. Write about this Titanic battle between two companies selling gadgets that no one has any practical daily use for and have no developer support to your heart's content. And even there: the 25 million Alexas pose no actual threat to Google, who absolutely owns search on desktop and mobile on BILLIONS of devices on ALL platforms where Alexa is only a factor in Amazon's tiny walled garden. Amazon likely pays Google more in ad revenue in a month than their Alexa program has generated for them in its lifetime. But on the other ... Apple's claim that they want Siri to be on a variety of devices ... meaning a variety of devices that Apple will manufacture. And Apple, by virtue of the type of company that they are - they aren't even LG, let alone Samsung - will only manufacture a small number of very expensive devices that will only be used by a small subset of the population. Now once again, this is not that big of a problem so long as their biggest "competition" as 25 million Alexa devices. But if someone does come up with a ubiquitious solution that is platform and hardware agnostic - i.e. something akin to a browser or browser based solution - it could be a real problem. The issue right now - with the A.I., IoT and VR fields - is that Google, Samsung, LG, HTC, Huawei, Xiaomi etc. are being stupid, each developing their own solutions in this area instead of working together. They each have their own smart TV platform, VR products, IoT platforms etc. ... and as a result have almost no market share or developer support between them. Virtually no one even uses the connected or smart features on Samsung's smart appliances, and Samsung's VR platform is only a kinda sorta success - 5 million devices shipped - because of their BOGO promotions and because it runs on the Oculus platform, not their own. LG's buying what remained of webOS and trying to use it to create their own smart TV platform to compete with Google (and Samsung and Apple TV and Roku and Amazon) was an even bigger failure. But again, this is not Apple's problem, and until someone actually figures this stuff out and starts to compete in this area, there won't be a real revenue-producing threat for them to respond to.
    mattinozwatto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 72
    Chicago IrishChicago Irish Posts: 3unconfirmed, member
    Good! Because Siri #4(**&% sucks.

    Siri-ously, it's the worst at voice recognition, commands, even responding quickly to "Hey Siri". Not to mention google voice and alexa both beat her hands down. Even google voice on iPhone is better than Siri at answering general questions. 

    Apple needs to either enhance or rebuild Siri from the ground up. Frankly I'm tired of trying to use that AI. 
  • Reply 58 of 72
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,968member
    Good! Because Siri #4(**&% sucks.

    Siri-ously, it's the worst at voice recognition, commands, even responding quickly to "Hey Siri". Not to mention google voice and alexa both beat her hands down. Even google voice on iPhone is better than Siri at answering general questions. 

    Apple needs to either enhance or rebuild Siri from the ground up. Frankly I'm tired of trying to use that AI. 
    Thanks for signing up just to post that. 

    My question is, who let all the trolls out from under the macrumors bridge?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 59 of 72
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    Just augment the next AppleTV with it.
    You going to have to more effort into your comment than that. Where's the speaker in that setup when the TV is off? And if you mean give the Apple TV its own speaker wouldn't that be a very tiny speaker (dot isn't their main calling card) and wouldn't that be an odd location for a dedicated Siri-speaker: under the TV?

    Nah, for this to work this needs to be thought of more as an audio-only product you can talk to that sits permanently somewhere in the home and while mainly used as a music and podcast player is always ready and waiting to answer any question or command you throw at it. The fixed position of these devices is what makes them so appealing to some people. It's the knowing where the device is always that makes this product category such a fit for the home. I have misplaced my iPhone a number of times in my home but I've never misplaced my kettle or microwave. Once in proximity of my iPhone the system would know which device to answer from. For all audio requests the speaker would answer and any visual requests would be sent over to the iPhone.
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 60 of 72
    Chicago IrishChicago Irish Posts: 3unconfirmed, member
    AppleZulu said:
    Good! Because Siri #4(**&% sucks.

    Siri-ously, it's the worst at voice recognition, commands, even responding quickly to "Hey Siri". Not to mention google voice and alexa both beat her hands down. Even google voice on iPhone is better than Siri at answering general questions. 

    Apple needs to either enhance or rebuild Siri from the ground up. Frankly I'm tired of trying to use that AI. 
    Thanks for signing up just to post that. 

    My question is, who let all the trolls out from under the macrumors bridge?
    No one is a troll for stating a position you disagree with. I'm tired of using Siri on my watch and phone. It sucks. Apple is falling behind the other AI interfaces. I'm an apple fan of many things but not Siri 

    Who let an alt-facts Siri apologist like Zulu in? 
    edited February 2017 ireland
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