Apple unlikely to develop an Echo-like standalone Siri speaker - report

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  • Reply 61 of 72
    Chicago IrishChicago Irish Posts: 3unconfirmed, member
    Damn autocorrect..fingers too thick to type. Apologies for typos, but not to Zulu 
  • Reply 62 of 72
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,541member
    I would say the jury is still out on whether a standalone voice assistant in the home will be a big market or not.  I think it is fair to say that the Echo is more popular than expected, though there do not seem to be any views as to how many cumulative units have been sold.  The simple playing of music type by voice command from an intelligent speaker, at the right price, is bound to have at decent market (Bose sells lots of gear here).  As an extension of Apple Music, a standalone speaker with Siri seems like a reasonable extension product concept.  However, Apple often steers clear of things that might only sell in the "millions"...

    Home automation is still a market in its infancy with many different standards and approaches.  And is fairly expensive.  I think that market will take many years before it reaches the growth part of the S-curve.  So in that scenario, Apple is not late and has time to develop both HomeKit and any home-based voice control systems.

    For sure Siri needs a "yuuuge" amount of work to be more reliable and useful, regardless of the physical endpoint.  Given the increasing sales of Apple Watch, does a revamped Siri, with some better local processing (on phone at first) and improved mic's, change the game somewhat, in terms of the "assistant".  IMO a wearable is the best place to have a "personal assistant".  Apple with their lead in premium smartwatches is in as good a position as anyone in that regard.
    watto_cobrametalcase
  • Reply 63 of 72
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,289member
    brucemc said:
    I would say the jury is still out on whether a standalone voice assistant in the home will be a big market or not.  I think it is fair to say that the Echo is more popular than expected, though there do not seem to be any views as to how many cumulative units have been sold.  The simple playing of music type by voice command from an intelligent speaker, at the right price, is bound to have at decent market (Bose sells lots of gear here).  As an extension of Apple Music, a standalone speaker with Siri seems like a reasonable extension product concept.  However, Apple often steers clear of things that might only sell in the "millions"...

    Home automation is still a market in its infancy with many different standards and approaches.  And is fairly expensive.  I think that market will take many years before it reaches the growth part of the S-curve.  So in that scenario, Apple is not late and has time to develop both HomeKit and any home-based voice control systems.

    For sure Siri needs a "yuuuge" amount of work to be more reliable and useful, regardless of the physical endpoint.  Given the increasing sales of Apple Watch, does a revamped Siri, with some better local processing (on phone at first) and improved mic's, change the game somewhat, in terms of the "assistant".  IMO a wearable is the best place to have a "personal assistant".  Apple with their lead in premium smartwatches is in as good a position as anyone in that regard.
    I think the best thing they do would be to make Siri more conversive.

    At this stage there is no conversation just a question and answer no follow up unless following the script initiated by the first question. Siri doesn't learn user patterns either, even bog standard things like being able to set up a series of timers and give them a name so next time seem lost of "her". There is massive scope here for Siri to have encypted user profiles that allow for a more personal experience maybe even allow for running jokes and other personally traits. 

    Still Apple were pretty clear at WWDC 16 - Siri will be expanded year on year. If they don't fulfill that promise there will be hard questions to ask. 
    watto_cobraireland
  • Reply 64 of 72
    This is one of those situations where Apple needs to just shutup and realize they were asleep at the wheel. 

    Amazon proved the viability of a connected speaker functioning as an assistant.  Nothing Apple can say now will save face that a 
    company that crows about innovation being in their DNA missed the boat. 

    Amazon isn't the one Apple need to worry about it's Google.  Google will overtake Amazon based on its sheer knowledge of search and its ecosystem 
    that places Android in TV, consoles, Smartphones and more.  





    Apple is actually quiet. No reason to shut up when they haven't said anything.

    You seem oddly too upset with this whole thing.

    Soliwatto_cobra
  • Reply 65 of 72
    jakeb said:
    This is essential for HomeKit. Otherwise you have to carry your iOS device to with you at all times to control lights, etc, and guests are unable to do things at all. 

    Control of a fixed devices requires a fixed control. You never want to have to go find your light switch. 
    I'm building out (with what little is available) my smart home to be automated via sensors and the like and controls based on certain conditions beings met (time of day, temperature, presence sensor, something opened or unlocked etc.) I'd still rather go find a light switch than feel weird talking out loud to a device and having to correct and repeat myself continually for it to understand my local scottish dialect.
  • Reply 66 of 72
    calicali Posts: 3,494member
    I truly fear for this company. When the iPhone fades it's hard to see what is going to keep this company afloat.  

    I dont feel like Apple has had a SW or HW hit product in years. Cook keeps rambling about how amazing AI is, please just shut up and prove it. 

    Anyone that doubts the the efficacy of voice assistants for the home clearly didn't pay attention to the holiday season and the momentum Echo has. 

    Siri is not omnipresent.  I have 2 Google Home and an Echo dot and both crush Siri

    If iPhone sales were to reduce to zero Apple would still be one of the biggest companies in the world. stop worrying and stop sharing your data with Google. 
    Soli
  • Reply 67 of 72
    jakeb said:
    This is essential for HomeKit. Otherwise you have to carry your iOS device to with you at all times to control lights, etc, and guests are unable to do things at all. 

    Control of a fixed devices requires a fixed control. You never want to have to go find your light switch. 
    Agreed.  Apple will do a device.  I think it'll be integrated into Apple TV.  Full HomeKit integration.  May have remote wireless microphone and speaker pods for use throughout home.  Security requires individual voice recognition and maybe face recognition.  The sky in the limit in this space, so I can't imagine they won't enter the market with something very cool.  Maybe even a halographic head!  I'd buy that.
  • Reply 68 of 72
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,415member
    This is one of those situations where Apple needs to just shutup and realize they were asleep at the wheel. 

    Amazon proved the viability of a connected speaker functioning as an assistant.  Nothing Apple can say now will save face that a 
    company that crows about innovation being in their DNA missed the boat. 

    Amazon isn't the one Apple need to worry about it's Google.  Google will overtake Amazon based on its sheer knowledge of search and its ecosystem 
    that places Android in TV, consoles, Smartphones and more.  





    Apple is actually quiet. No reason to shut up when they haven't said anything.

    You seem oddly too upset with this whole thing.

    Not too upset but rather concerned that Tim Cook has no bonafide success so far in his tenure.  Apple is still living off of a Steve Jobs product.  Siri has been around for 5 years and it's still basic.  

    cali said:
    I truly fear for this company. When the iPhone fades it's hard to see what is going to keep this company afloat.  

    I dont feel like Apple has had a SW or HW hit product in years. Cook keeps rambling about how amazing AI is, please just shut up and prove it. 

    Anyone that doubts the the efficacy of voice assistants for the home clearly didn't pay attention to the holiday season and the momentum Echo has. 

    Siri is not omnipresent.  I have 2 Google Home and an Echo dot and both crush Siri

    If iPhone sales were to reduce to zero Apple would still be one of the biggest companies in the world. stop worrying and stop sharing your data with Google. 

    No if iPhone sales tanked Apple would drug under by the weight of the Apple stores.   Apple keeps crowing about their services and how their revenue/profits are increasing but honestly the only reason to use Apple's services is if you want integration.   Dropbox is faster than iCloud, Up There has a far faster web client for viewing photos. 

    Again I don't know if this article is truthful but assuming it was it would be wrong way.  The microphone quality in Apple devices are suited for near field not far field.  Siri needs a far field product that doesn't rely on dropping people down into web searches.   I want to sell off my Echo and Google Home.  I don't being the product and i'm willing to pay a premium so that I don't have to hence my continual support of Apple. 
  • Reply 69 of 72
    I have an Amazon Echo.  I mostly use it as a glorified bluetooth speaker to connect my iPhone to.  Google, Microsoft, and Apple all have better voice interfaces for answering questions right now, and even though Siri is lacking, it miles ahead of Alexa.  Even with a prime subscription Alexa isn't the greatest.  I'm sure Apple has something in the works that will do what some of these standalone devices will do, but they will be integrated into the pre-existing hardware they have now.
  • Reply 70 of 72
    Reasons why Apple will create and sell a Siri Home device:

    1. Apple, in partnership with Energous, is creating an RF-based wireless distance charging solution which requires a large transmitting device which houses numerous antennas to transmit the wireless power. Because this device has to be rather large, stationary, and have a constant wired connection to a power outlet, you quickly understand that you can include a speaker, numerous microphones, and Siri functionality, making this device far more useful and enticing than buying a large device that's sole purpose is to wirelessly charge your devices only when they are near it and need it. Finally, because of the nature of wireless RF-based charging having a maximum distance around 15 feet in a spherical diameter from the transmitting device, it becomes clear that an 'Amazon Echo' type device is the optimal device for this, as this type of device is designed to be in a central location such as a coffee table. You can reason why a wifi router or the Apple TV would be categorically worse solutions for the transmitting device. This is my prediction based on rumors of Apple working on a Siri device, and rumors of Apple working with Energous. 

    2. As others have mentioned, the iPhone is virtually worthless for distance-based voice communication. This is due to its use of only 2 microphones. Moreover, the iPhone must be laying face-up in order for the microphones to always be listening for 'Hey, Siri'. Imagine you were in another room and trying to talk to a family member. If they can't hear you well, they won't receive the information you are trying to give them. The same is true with these voice assistants due to the lack of microphones to detect the sound well. 
    edited February 2017
  • Reply 71 of 72
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 1,968member
    Reasons why Apple will create and sell a Siri Home device:

    1. Apple, in partnership with Energous, is creating an RF-based wireless distance charging solution which requires a large transmitting device which houses numerous antennas to transmit the wireless power. Because this device has to be rather large, stationary, and have a constant wired connection to a power outlet, you quickly understand that you can include a speaker, numerous microphones, and Siri functionality, making this device far more useful and enticing than buying a large device that's sole purpose is to wirelessly charge your devices only when they are near it and need it. Finally, because of the nature of wireless RF-based charging having a maximum distance around 15 feet in a spherical diameter from the transmitting device, it becomes clear that an 'Amazon Echo' type device is the optimal device for this, as this type of device is designed to be in a central location such as a coffee table. You can reason why a wifi router or the Apple TV would be categorically worse solutions for the transmitting device. This is my prediction based on rumors of Apple working on a Siri device, and rumors of Apple working with Energous. 

    2. As others have mentioned, the iPhone is virtually worthless for distance-based voice communication. This is due to its use of only 2 microphones. Moreover, the iPhone must be laying face-up in order for the microphones to always be listening for 'Hey, Siri'. Imagine you were in another room and trying to talk to a family member. If they can't hear you well, they won't receive the information you are trying to give them. The same is true with these voice assistants due to the lack of microphones to detect the sound well. 
    Talk about Steve Jobs spinning in his grave.

    1. Can you really picture Apple putting on the market "a large transmitting device which houses numerous antennas to transmit the wireless power" that "because of the nature of wireless RF-based charging having a maximum distance around 15 feet in a spherical diameter from the transmitting device," must be placed "in a central location such as a coffee table"? You're describing a thing that "has to be rather large, stationary, and have a constant wired connection to a power outlet." The last place anything like that should be is "in a central location such as a coffee table." Seriously, a large, clunky object on the coffee table, with a permanent tripping hazard, I mean power cord, draped across the room? Whatever you're describing there, it's not an Apple product. 

    2. An iPhone is already in your pocket, and/or an Apple Watch is on your wrist. There's no need to yell across the house. Access to Siri is already right there with you. Again, the Apple ethos says that creating a large, clunky object with a permanent tripping hazard that would have customers yelling commands across the house is an inelegant, horrible idea.
  • Reply 72 of 72
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,035member
    AppleZulu said:
    Reasons why Apple will create and sell a Siri Home device:

    1. Apple, in partnership with Energous, is creating an RF-based wireless distance charging solution which requires a large transmitting device which houses numerous antennas to transmit the wireless power. Because this device has to be rather large, stationary, and have a constant wired connection to a power outlet, you quickly understand that you can include a speaker, numerous microphones, and Siri functionality, making this device far more useful and enticing than buying a large device that's sole purpose is to wirelessly charge your devices only when they are near it and need it. Finally, because of the nature of wireless RF-based charging having a maximum distance around 15 feet in a spherical diameter from the transmitting device, it becomes clear that an 'Amazon Echo' type device is the optimal device for this, as this type of device is designed to be in a central location such as a coffee table. You can reason why a wifi router or the Apple TV would be categorically worse solutions for the transmitting device. This is my prediction based on rumors of Apple working on a Siri device, and rumors of Apple working with Energous. 

    2. As others have mentioned, the iPhone is virtually worthless for distance-based voice communication. This is due to its use of only 2 microphones. Moreover, the iPhone must be laying face-up in order for the microphones to always be listening for 'Hey, Siri'. Imagine you were in another room and trying to talk to a family member. If they can't hear you well, they won't receive the information you are trying to give them. The same is true with these voice assistants due to the lack of microphones to detect the sound well. 
    Talk about Steve Jobs spinning in his grave.

    1. Can you really picture Apple putting on the market "a large transmitting device which houses numerous antennas to transmit the wireless power" that "because of the nature of wireless RF-based charging having a maximum distance around 15 feet in a spherical diameter from the transmitting device," must be placed "in a central location such as a coffee table"? You're describing a thing that "has to be rather large, stationary, and have a constant wired connection to a power outlet." The last place anything like that should be is "in a central location such as a coffee table." Seriously, a large, clunky object on the coffee table, with a permanent tripping hazard, I mean power cord, draped across the room? Whatever you're describing there, it's not an Apple product. 

    2. An iPhone is already in your pocket, and/or an Apple Watch is on your wrist. There's no need to yell across the house. Access to Siri is already right there with you. Again, the Apple ethos says that creating a large, clunky object with a permanent tripping hazard that would have customers yelling commands across the house is an inelegant, horrible idea.
    I wonder if commenters, like the one I've quoted, have reconsidered their comments where they claim Apple will never make an Echo-like device.
    gatorguy
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