Contradictory report cites 5 Apple wireless charging teams on 'iPhone 8,' no tech breakthr...

Posted:
in iPhone
A new report highlights Apple's involvement with wireless charging protocol specification Qi's organizing body, and claims that Apple's iPhone moves are driven more by marketing needs than by any particular drive for innovation in new products.




On Thursday, a report from Reuters noted that Apple's anniversary phone, commonly referred to as the "iPhone 8," is coming, but claims that "a radical new design is not expected." The report cites two-year and growing consumer iPhone upgrade cycles and "Apple's own business and marketing needs" as the prime movers to what technologies are included in any new iPhone.

"When a market gets saturated, the growth is all about refresh," said Bob O'Donnell of Technalysis Research to Reuters. "This is exactly what happened to PCs. It's exactly what happened to tablets. It's starting to happen to smartphones."

As an example of Apple's slow technology adoption, the report cites wireless charging, which is said to be included in one form or another in the iPhone 8. According to unnamed sources familiar with the matter, there are at least five different groups working with Apple on the technology -- despite there being only two main suppliers and developers of the tech.

One well-developed technology, Qi, utilizes one coil inside a compatible device phone needing rough alignment with a matching coil on a designated pad. Apple is a member of the Wireless Power Consortium, the governing body behind the Qi charging standard.

The competing Airfuel specification supports a coil as well as magnetic resonance which does not need to be placed in the same proximity, or accuracy, as a device with a Qi coil. Apple has no known affiliation with the Airfuel specification group.

Other technologies expected to be in the $1000 and up "iPhone 8" include glass-sandwich design, a laser-based 3d facial recognition scanner, and a fingerprint sensor and FaceTime camera embedded behind the front display.

The "iPhone 7s," also expected in the fall, may include some or none of these new technologies also noted by the Reuters report. It is not clear why Reuters believes that the inclusion of these features won't constitute a "radical new design" for an "iPhone 8," however.

"iPhone set the standard for mobile computing in its first decade and we are just getting started," said Apple CEO Tim Cook on the anniversary of the iPhone. "The best is yet to come."
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 32
    Oh, Apple! How much doomed art thou?
    StrangeDaysradarthekatadamcwatto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 32
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,591member
    So if I'm reading this correctly, a bod from Reuters read a bunch of rumours and then came up with another rumour backed up by sources unfamiliar with the matter. 

    Got it to hand it Cook. He said he'd double down on leaks, and by the looks of the clueless guesswork swamping the internet, he's done just that. 
    stanthemangilly017king editor the gratemattinozleavingthebiggwaverboypatchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 32
    I think Apple advantage in this field can be their efficiency and elegance of their inductive charging solution based on patent that relaxes need for strict positioning as mentioned earlier here:
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/25/apple-invention-uses-ferrofluids-to-enhance-induction-charging-performance
    stanthemanwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 32
    To me, it seems that any sort of charging pad is almost more restrictive than just plugging in a lightning or USB cable. Once plugged it, the device can be turned at any angle, limited only by the length of the cable. Until a device can be wirelessly charged at some distance from the source, it's really not all that useful, in my opinion. 
    edited February 2017 wonkothesaneking editor the gratewaverboywatto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 32
    levilevi Posts: 344member
    Contradictatory indeed: "Apple is close-mouthed about upcoming product features, but analysts and reports from Asian component suppliers and others indicate that high-resolution displays based on OLED technology -- possibly with curved edges -- are likely to be part of the anniversary phone. A radical new design is not expected, according to analysts."

    Referring to possible new 3D sensors: "That sensor could be upgraded to a higher-resolution version that could handle 3-D mapping for facial recognition, said Jim Morrison, vice president at TechInsights.

    Some analysts also speculate the company could remove the phone's home button, placing it and a fingerprint sensor beneath the front display glass, based on patents the company has filed."

    So in short, the phone is rumored to have a radical redesign and many new features, but isn't expected to be a radical redesign or include many new features...

    LogicalReasoningMetriacanthosauruswaverboydamn_its_hotwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 32
    Goodness! Marketing is always a concern! The question at tech companies (at least the ones I worked at) is the relationship between marketing and engineering. Engineers often want to do 'cool stuff' that consumers don't care about or are complicated and difficult to grasp for those who don't 'live' in the technology field. Marketing folks often want rather worthless things that consumers may think they may care about but more importantly they want tech and changes that are 'easy to sell'. There is no binary answer to how this works. Apple ALWAYS had marketing as a concern, what company doesn't? Or what company that stays solvent for more than a month doesn't? It's the balance between marketing and engineering that matters - and the abilities of the leadership that decide the proper mix. And Apple has time and time again, made good choices on this ratio even if the technology press disagrees.
    gilly017radarthekatwaverboywatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 32
    levi said:
    So in short, the phone is rumored to have a radical redesign and many new features, but isn't expected to be a radical redesign or include many new features...
    I think it is entirely safe to say that the phone will have a radical redesign and many new features, and the fraudulent tech media will do its duty in reporting it as NOT a radical redesign and NOT new features.
    levigilly017leavingthebiggwaverboywatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 32
    frantisek said:
    I think Apple advantage in this field can be their efficiency and elegance of their inductive charging solution based on patent that relaxes need for strict positioning as mentioned earlier here:
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/25/apple-invention-uses-ferrofluids-to-enhance-induction-charging-performance
    Apple isn't doing inductive charging with the iPhone. Apple is doing RF-based wireless charging. Even if they didn't get distance-based RF charging, the RF contact charging via Energous chip integration directly into the Dialog power management chips that Apple currently uses is by far the best thing to do. It adds no thickness to the device and the chip is absolutely tiny compared to the coil required for inductive charging. 

    Apple is likely working with Energous to revolutionize wireless charging via distance. It uses 1 tiny chip that is capable of contact clear up to 15 feet of distance charging. Everyone will get contact charging for very cheap and those who want distance will need to buy the transmitter device which I predict is a Siri home device. 
    edited February 2017 gilly017watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 32
    levilevi Posts: 344member
    levi said:
    So in short, the phone is rumored to have a radical redesign and many new features, but isn't expected to be a radical redesign or include many new features...
    I think it is entirely safe to say that the phone will have a radical redesign and many new features, and the fraudulent tech media will do its duty in reporting it as NOT a radical redesign and NOT new features.
    Agreed. Just pointing out what nonsense these 'reports' are. 
  • Reply 10 of 32
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,371member
    I don't enjoy being the skunk at the perfume party, but among all the technorati, who are supposedly among the most scientifically literate segment of the population, when this (wireless charging) is brought up, the inefficiency of the process (i.e., all the generated electricity just pissed out into the "ether") is seldom if ever mentioned.  

    You might say we're only talking about a few thousand milliamps, but take that times 2 or 3 billion devices mostly charged everyday, and hello more global climate change.

    I will stick with wired charging for as long as it's available.

    OK, you may now return to your wish-listing as Gaia weeps..... 

     
    edited February 2017 radarthekatanomeAppleZuluking editor the gratecharlesgresadamc
  • Reply 11 of 32
    levi said:
    So in short, the phone is rumored to have a radical redesign and many new features, but isn't expected to be a radical redesign or include many new features...
    I think it is entirely safe to say that the phone will have a radical redesign and many new features, and the fraudulent tech media will do its duty in reporting it as NOT a radical redesign and NOT new features.

    ...following which, the product will sell very well anyway, suggesting that media hocus-pocus isn't fooling anyone — either because consumers see through it or because their passion drowns it out.

    Despite everything, the tech punditry continue to play the same hand. Why? Are they compensated by competitors? Are they fearful of being reviled as fanboys? Are they blinded by resentment? Or do readership analytics favour negative reporting? Damn, deception and bias seem to be everywhere.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 32
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Goodness! Marketing is always a concern! The question at tech companies (at least the ones I worked at) is the relationship between marketing and engineering. Engineers often want to do 'cool stuff' that consumers don't care about or are complicated and difficult to grasp for those who don't 'live' in the technology field. Marketing folks often want rather worthless things that consumers may think they may care about but more importantly they want tech and changes that are 'easy to sell'. There is no binary answer to how this works. Apple ALWAYS had marketing as a concern, what company doesn't? Or what company that stays solvent for more than a month doesn't? It's the balance between marketing and engineering that matters - and the abilities of the leadership that decide the proper mix. And Apple has time and time again, made good choices on this ratio even if the technology press disagrees.

    In the modern company, especially of that size, it's mostly marketing (the product dev side of marketing) that's the most important.
    Detecting which future market trends needs to be catered to is a main input into strategic decisions.
    A big difference between Apple and the rest of the industry is their relationship with their clients and that has been reflected in how their products and services have been developed.
    For Apple, tech is a tool to reach it's "improve client's life" goal, not the main focus; It's implementation and integration of tech, and not the tech itself that has led Apple were it is. Tech is best when you don't know it exists.
  • Reply 13 of 32
    levi said:
    So in short, the phone is rumored to have a radical redesign and many new features, but isn't expected to be a radical redesign or include many new features...
    I think it is entirely safe to say that the phone will have a radical redesign and many new features, and the fraudulent tech media will do its duty in reporting it as NOT a radical redesign and NOT new features.

    ...following which, the product will sell very well anyway, suggesting that media hocus-pocus isn't fooling anyone — either because consumers see through it or because their passion drowns it out.

    Despite everything, the tech punditry continue to play the same hand. Why? Are they compensated by competitors? Are they fearful of being reviled as fanboys? Are they blinded by resentment? Or do readership analytics favour negative reporting? Damn, deception and bias seem to be everywhere.

    I believe there are multiple reasons for the tech press' consistent, negative coverage of Apple. First, is not understanding Apple. They don't operate in the same way as most technology companies, from its design ethos to its org operating structure. Second, I believe they're uneasy with the imbalance of power between Apple and the media. Media outlets needs Apple much more than Apple needs most media outlets, at least compared to other companies. Apple doesn't run banner ads, and they've shown that they are willing to remove media invites from their events at will. Lastly, I think there is a tendency to attempt to knock those at the top down from their perceived pedestals. this is why media will build up an underdog, but then pivot the narrative and work on bringing that success story back down. 

    Put out those all together and you have a hostile narrative.
    edited February 2017 AppleZulupatchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 32
    anomeanome Posts: 1,269member
    levi said:
    So in short, the phone is rumored to have a radical redesign and many new features, but isn't expected to be a radical redesign or include many new features...
    I think it is entirely safe to say that the phone will have a radical redesign and many new features, and the fraudulent tech media will do its duty in reporting it as NOT a radical redesign and NOT new features.

    ...following which, the product will sell very well anyway, suggesting that media hocus-pocus isn't fooling anyone — either because consumers see through it or because their passion drowns it out.

    Despite everything, the tech punditry continue to play the same hand. Why? Are they compensated by competitors? Are they fearful of being reviled as fanboys? Are they blinded by resentment? Or do readership analytics favour negative reporting? Damn, deception and bias seem to be everywhere.

    I think it's more that they're sure they're going to be right eventually, and then they can claim to have called it in advance. They don't change their line, because if this time is the time they're right, they don't want to look stupid for having changed their mind just beforehand. Besides, it's not like they ever have to face any consequences for being wrong.

    So, for what it's worth, I predict the 10th Anniversary iPhone 8 X will include totally wireless charging, by tapping into the Earth's magnetic field requiring no external power source, have an internal hologram projector for 3D Facetime, and come with a personal protection Force Field that will protect not only the phone, but also the user in the case of sudden impacts or accidents.

    Despite all this, it will look exactly like the iPhone 7, and therefore Apple clearly can't innovate anymore, and they are obviously doomed.

    king editor the gratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 32
    frantisek said:
    I think Apple advantage in this field can be their efficiency and elegance of their inductive charging solution based on patent that relaxes need for strict positioning as mentioned earlier here:
    http://appleinsider.com/articles/16/10/25/apple-invention-uses-ferrofluids-to-enhance-induction-charging-performance
    Apple isn't doing inductive charging with the iPhone. Apple is doing RF-based wireless charging. Even if they didn't get distance-based RF charging, the RF contact charging via Energous chip integration directly into the Dialog power management chips that Apple currently uses is by far the best thing to do. It adds no thickness to the device and the chip is absolutely tiny compared to the coil required for inductive charging. 

    Apple is likely working with Energous to revolutionize wireless charging via distance. It uses 1 tiny chip that is capable of contact clear up to 15 feet of distance charging. Everyone will get contact charging for very cheap and those who want distance will need to buy the transmitter device which I predict is a Siri home device. 
    You seem to have signed up just to promote the idea of a big Apple-Energous collaboration, despite other reports that that's likely not a thing. Did you buy some Energous stock or something?
  • Reply 16 of 32
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,785member
    hexclock said:
    To me, it seems that any sort of charging pad is almost more restrictive than just plugging in a lightning or USB cable. Once plugged it, the device can be turned at any angle, limited only by the length of the cable. Until a device can be wirelessly charged at some distance from the source, it's really not all that useful, in my opinion. 
    i agree!    I'm often using my iPhone while it charges.  

    Beyond that wireless charging strikes me as a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.    Unless Apple release an iPhone that is completely sealed, to make it water proof, I really don't seen  advantage for the consumer.   It just means more expensive parts (chargers) when something goes bad.   It also screws with the idea of picking up power almost anywhere due to the wide availability of USB outlets.

    Paint me an unconvinced!   I know many are excited about this technology but I really have to ask why?
  • Reply 17 of 32
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,785member
    The media in general seems to have a considerable amount of hate for Apple lately.    I really don't know why.    Sure Apple does things that are absolutely stupid but on a balance they still are on the good side or respectability.   

    What is more funny is that Apple is a very left leaning company yet it is attacked by the left leaning media.   Makes no sense really.   There does seem to be a general trend of the last few months though for the media to print articles obviously issued from their asses.   This is probably due to the fact that once you burn credibility no amount of garbage matters anymore.    It is a strange time we live in where the make believe is given more worth than reality.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 32
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,785member
    bigpics said:
    I don't enjoy being the skunk at the perfume party, but among all the technorati, who are supposedly among the most scientifically literate segment of the population, when this (wireless charging) is brought up, the inefficiency of the process (i.e., all the generated electricity just pissed out into the "ether") is seldom if ever mentioned.  

    You might say we're only talking about a few thousand milliamps, but take that times 2 or 3 billion devices mostly charged everyday, and hello more global climate change.

    I will stick with wired charging for as long as it's available.

    OK, you may now return to your wish-listing as Gaia weeps..... 

     
    While I have no concerns about Gaia, I've yet to see any scientifically sound evidence of a technology that makes long distance charging viable and more importantly safe for humans.   Maybe they have a tech to beat the inverse squared law, but I can't imagine a huge improvement.   If it was that easy we would have seen a solution by now.
  • Reply 19 of 32
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,785member

    anome said:
    levi said:
    So in short, the phone is rumored to have a radical redesign and many new features, but isn't expected to be a radical redesign or include many new features...
    I think it is entirely safe to say that the phone will have a radical redesign and many new features, and the fraudulent tech media will do its duty in reporting it as NOT a radical redesign and NOT new features.

    ...following which, the product will sell very well anyway, suggesting that media hocus-pocus isn't fooling anyone — either because consumers see through it or because their passion drowns it out.

    Despite everything, the tech punditry continue to play the same hand. Why? Are they compensated by competitors? Are they fearful of being reviled as fanboys? Are they blinded by resentment? Or do readership analytics favour negative reporting? Damn, deception and bias seem to be everywhere.

    I think it's more that they're sure they're going to be right eventually, and then they can claim to have called it in advance. They don't change their line, because if this time is the time they're right, they don't want to look stupid for having changed their mind just beforehand. Besides, it's not like they ever have to face any consequences for being wrong.

    So, for what it's worth, I predict the 10th Anniversary iPhone 8 X will include totally wireless charging, by tapping into the Earth's magnetic field requiring no external power source, have an internal hologram projector for 3D Facetime, and come with a personal protection Force Field that will protect not only the phone, but also the user in the case of sudden impacts or accidents.

    Despite all this, it will look exactly like the iPhone 7, and therefore Apple clearly can't innovate anymore, and they are obviously doomed.

    Ah yes the personal defense shield model!    What is sad is that we might see your projections here actually trumpeted by one of these rumor mongers in a couple of weeks.   of course the text will be obfuscated to make the source hard to verify.   Ticks of the trade of being an analyst.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 32
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,567administrator

    anome said:

    I think it's more that they're sure they're going to be right eventually, and then they can claim to have called it in advance. They don't change their line, because if this time is the time they're right, they don't want to look stupid for having changed their mind just beforehand. Besides, it's not like they ever have to face any consequences for being wrong.

    So, for what it's worth, I predict the 10th Anniversary iPhone 8 X will include totally wireless charging, by tapping into the Earth's magnetic field requiring no external power source, have an internal hologram projector for 3D Facetime, and come with a personal protection Force Field that will protect not only the phone, but also the user in the case of sudden impacts or accidents.

    Despite all this, it will look exactly like the iPhone 7, and therefore Apple clearly can't innovate anymore, and they are obviously doomed.

    iPhone 8s.
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