You're wrong about the four speakers not worth a mention Mike. It's a big deal to some and a healthy clip better than 2-speakered iPad when in all-in-one situations—which Marco Arment would tell you for his Overcast stats is most people most of the time. Never mind facts though when you can just blame readers. And while you mentioned P3 you didn't mention True Tone.
"Your mileage, and agreement, may vary." We keep the forums open for discussions like this. Because I didn't (and still don't) think that the quad-speakers equals much of anything, doesn't mean that you all don't.
You're welcome to feel that I'm wrong -- I do, and have, made corrections! But -- I continue to stand by what's here, as-is.
You're wrong about the four speakers not worth a mention Mike. It's a big deal to some and a healthy clip better than 2-speakered iPad when in all-in-one situations—which Marco Arment would tell you for his Overcast stats is most people most of the time. Never mind facts though when you can just blame readers. And while you mentioned P3 you didn't mention True Tone.
I agree. For me the improved audio on the 9.7 Pro is worth the price difference by itself. The other features are nice, but not worth the expense IMO. But the improved audio is awesome (IMO of course).
You're wrong about the four speakers not worth a mention Mike. It's a big deal to some and a healthy clip better than 2-speakered iPad when in all-in-one situations—which Marco Arment would tell you for his Overcast stats is most people most of the time. Never mind facts though when you can just blame readers. And while you mentioned P3 you didn't mention True Tone.
"Your mileage, and agreement, may vary." We keep the forums open for discussions like this. Because I didn't (and still don't) think that the quad-speakers equals much of anything, doesn't mean that you all don't.
You're welcome to feel that I'm wrong -- I do, and have, made corrections! But -- I continue to stand by what's here, as-is.
Does the iPad Pro have 16Bit, 24Bit, or 32Bit DAC. Does it support HiRes audio files? Granted the speakers sound like they are an improvement over the Air2 but they're not stand alone speakers.
"Apple's 2017 iPad vs. 2016 9.7" iPad Pro: Which model is right for you?"
None! Bring a Mac tablet. It is other world!
iOS is the future. macOS is the past. The capabilities of iOS will improve. macOS will be modified till it runs a superset of iOS. That's just the facts because their are almost a billion iOS users (plus other flavors based on tvOS and watchOS).
How do we know the new iPad doesn't have a laminated display? And if it does not, why does it not? And no mention of the True Tone display, better camera and four speakers.
Fair enough on the lam display. Not on other points. I laid them out in plain English too.
We did address DCI-P3. I didn't address the speaker situation, because if you're relying on the speakers on your iPad to give you audio, you're probably doing something wrong.
The four speaker stereo sound is the best sounding iPad ever. Especially landscape mode in which the iPad is smart enough to shift the stereo sound to the sides. Listening to anything on a previous iPad with sound only out of one side was annoying. So don't infer that people are doing something wrong if they feel the four speaker audio in the iPad Pro is one of the selling points. Also, the camera with flash is better than the new iPad, which lacks the flash. The display on the iPad Pro 9.7 doubles as a flash for a quick selfie pic. I bet the new cheap iPad lacks that feature too. I have used both cameras in my iPad Pro during those moments when my iPhone is in another room. I also didn't pay full price for my iPad Pro. I saved $250 during Black Friday and an extra 5% off at Target, and then sold my original iPad Air for $350 on eBay.
You're wrong about the four speakers not worth a mention Mike. It's a big deal to some and a healthy clip better than 2-speakered iPad when in all-in-one situations—which Marco Arment would tell you for his Overcast stats is most people most of the time. Never mind facts though when you can just blame readers. And while you mentioned P3 you didn't mention True Tone.
"Your mileage, and agreement, may vary." We keep the forums open for discussions like this. Because I didn't (and still don't) think that the quad-speakers equals much of anything, doesn't mean that you all don't.
You're welcome to feel that I'm wrong -- I do, and have, made corrections! But -- I continue to stand by what's here, as-is.
I wonder how much of the discussion is less about the worth of 4 speakers vs 2 than it is about subjective differences of opinion on what makes "Good" sound. To a serious audiophile, my $2,000 system with 7 speakers would be crap.
You're wrong about the four speakers not worth a mention Mike. It's a big deal to some and a healthy clip better than 2-speakered iPad when in all-in-one situations—which Marco Arment would tell you for his Overcast stats is most people most of the time. Never mind facts though when you can just blame readers. And while you mentioned P3 you didn't mention True Tone.
"Your mileage, and agreement, may vary." We keep the forums open for discussions like this. Because I didn't (and still don't) think that the quad-speakers equals much of anything, doesn't mean that you all don't.
You're welcome to feel that I'm wrong -- I do, and have, made corrections! But -- I continue to stand by what's here, as-is.
Does the iPad Pro have 16Bit, 24Bit, or 32Bit DAC. Does it support HiRes audio files? Granted the speakers sound like they are an improvement over the Air2 but they're not stand alone speakers.
The 12.9 has the Cirrus Logic 338S1213. The Pro 9.7 has no such beast, and appears to use something belonging to the (inferior) CS42L family. On my 12.9, the audio is as crisp and clear as the little speakers can crank out, but on the family's 9.7 Pro, it's... gruff, and lacks the tonality of the larger pro. I can't tell the difference between the two speakers on the Air 2, versus the four on the 9.7 without using carefully selected tracks utilizing quadrophonic sound - and neither can the array of folk that I've been gathering for half a decade to test things like this.
Regarding the audio on the new iPad -- it's probably more in line with the Air family. We'll see how it goes, and we'll address real-world performance when we get ours.
You're wrong about the four speakers not worth a mention Mike. It's a big deal to some and a healthy clip better than 2-speakered iPad when in all-in-one situations—which Marco Arment would tell you for his Overcast stats is most people most of the time. Never mind facts though when you can just blame readers. And while you mentioned P3 you didn't mention True Tone.
"Your mileage, and agreement, may vary." We keep the forums open for discussions like this. Because I didn't (and still don't) think that the quad-speakers equals much of anything, doesn't mean that you all don't.
You're welcome to feel that I'm wrong -- I do, and have, made corrections! But -- I continue to stand by what's here, as-is.
Your job as a writer is supposed to be UNBIASED with regard to opinions. You just admitted your failure as a writer. You don't think the four speaker stereo sound in the iPad Pro "equals much of anything" so you intentionally left it out of an article that is supposed to compare features of two iPads, and to help consumers decide on which is best for them. You let your bias and opinion affect the content of an article, and then claim that is what the comments are for. You also left out the true tone display, so apparently you don't think that is worth mentioning either. Your article fails to point out the differences between the two iPads, because you intentionally left out features in the Pro model that don't exist in the new cheap iPad.
You're wrong about the four speakers not worth a mention Mike. It's a big deal to some and a healthy clip better than 2-speakered iPad when in all-in-one situations—which Marco Arment would tell you for his Overcast stats is most people most of the time. Never mind facts though when you can just blame readers. And while you mentioned P3 you didn't mention True Tone.
"Your mileage, and agreement, may vary." We keep the forums open for discussions like this. Because I didn't (and still don't) think that the quad-speakers equals much of anything, doesn't mean that you all don't.
You're welcome to feel that I'm wrong -- I do, and have, made corrections! But -- I continue to stand by what's here, as-is.
Your job as a writer is supposed to be UNBIASED with regard to opinions. You just admitted your failure as a writer.
If you say so, but I think you need to look up what writers discussing hardware that isn't in anybody's hands yet, can, and have to do. See also: the comment just prior to yours. The two words "True Tone" not appearing in the article in the part about the Wide Color DCI-P3 display are an omission with the Wide Color section, and they've been in there for at least an hour now.
I'm here to discuss the article, and that's fine. I will not tolerate attacks, however -- and they are against the commenter's guidelines.
I think the choice is clear. Do you need an Apple Pencil or the color gamut for your work as an artist? Do you want handwritten notes? Buy a Pro. Everyone else should buy an iPad and save the scratch.
The world of people who can use an IPad as a "laptop replacement" is small and is largely populated by retirees, small children and people who just surf the web and never use a complicated spreadsheet. The lower price iPad opens that world up and also keeps it as a more viable choice to buy for kids. Though giving up on the mini basically cedes that to Amazon where $50 gets you a crap-in-comparison tablet that is actually amazing because you can hand it to a four-year-old and not care.
Most of us are not tech writers with access to the bleeding edge. The new iPad is going to be a nice replacement for those with an original iPad, 2,3,4 or maybe Air who are thinking "It is time for a new one do i still need... $329. OK let me just explain this to the wife in a way that makes it sound important. I should use the old iPad more to make it look like I need one."
Normal people cannot justify an $800-$1,000 iPad (either base or all in with keyboard and pencil) when you can now grab a MacBook Air for the same price or a MacBook for just a few hundred more. Meanwhile for a growing segment of the population that just browses the Web and uses Facebook the phone works just fine.
I just hope Apple wakes up, either adds more true multitasking and power abilities to the Pro's or concedes they are not laptops, they cannot grow the mac business charging more and more for less and they find a way to bring Mac prices down to reality so they can grow the user base and be more than an iPhone company for years to come.
They are losing the top part of the market who don't want toy computers and the bottom part that can get a $300 Windows laptop a couple of minutes after ogling the nice MacBooks hidden in the corner of Best Buy.
I have an iPad Air 2 and if you all you are doing is watching movies/tv/web surfing/or email it's a great machine. And I think that this new iPad is also a great machine that will hopefully get people into pads.
As great of a machine that the iPadPro may be for artists with the Pencil. Its' not going to motivate me to upgrade. If they add mouse support to the Pro then I will definitely upgrade. Apple needs to expand the reach of the Pro to more users.
They should release an iOS based laptop based on the iPadPro. 12.9 model laptop with 360 degree reversible hinge so that they keyboard base could either get our of the way (flip behind the screen) or use as a regular keyboard. Keep the weight down to 2 lbs. Start it at $999 for 128 GB, $1199 for 128 , and $1399 for $256 GB, and you have the perfect replacement for the Mac book AIR which should be dropped from the line up at this point. 4 GB RAM is fine. Just need to keep the battery life at 10 hours.
You're wrong about the four speakers not worth a mention Mike. It's a big deal to some and a healthy clip better than 2-speakered iPad when in all-in-one situations—which Marco Arment would tell you for his Overcast stats is most people most of the time. Never mind facts though when you can just blame readers. And while you mentioned P3 you didn't mention True Tone.
"Your mileage, and agreement, may vary." We keep the forums open for discussions like this. Because I didn't (and still don't) think that the quad-speakers equals much of anything, doesn't mean that you all don't.
You're welcome to feel that I'm wrong -- I do, and have, made corrections! But -- I continue to stand by what's here, as-is.
Your job as a writer is supposed to be UNBIASED with regard to opinions. You just admitted your failure as a writer. You don't think the four speaker stereo sound in the iPad Pro "equals much of anything" so you intentionally left it out of an article that is supposed to compare features of two iPads, and to help consumers decide on which is best for them. You let your bias and opinion affect the content of an article, and then claim that is what the comments are for. You also left out the true tone display, so apparently you don't think that is worth mentioning either. Your article fails to point out the differences between the two iPads, because you intentionally left out features in the Pro model that don't exist in the new cheap iPad.
I disagree that that's a writer's job as it's impossible. It's his job to discern what's of interest. I just think here he missed the mark. To attempt to be unbiased is a waste of energy as we are all biased.
"Apple's 2017 iPad vs. 2016 9.7" iPad Pro: Which model is right for you?"
None! Bring a Mac tablet. It is other world!
iOS is the future. macOS is the past. The capabilities of iOS will improve. macOS will be modified till it runs a superset of iOS. That's just the facts because their are almost a billion iOS users (plus other flavors based on tvOS and watchOS).
Bit of a logic flaw there IMHO.
Will be quite a while before macOS is the past -- Apple continues to innovate with it. Don't think for a minute that because you are not seeing a jump like System 7 to Sierra that they are done with it.
I guarantee that developing (writing code, designing UI, managing reusable code, etc...) on an iPad pro or otherwise isn't there. Using a MB with a 13" to 15" screen is a challenge even with the big leap made by Swift -- I am sure Apple would not have developed it to be multi-platform and processor agnostic just to see if they could! The more the executables run the same code (@ source level) the better the reusability as well as having an architecture that is consistent across product lines.
As a developer on the Mac since 1984 (as well as other platforms) although you could write code on a Mac and build finished apps (even on a 128K in asm) but it was painful. Even the step up to 13" color was a leap from the 9" on the Mac (128k, 512k, Plus...) but most serious developers used a 2nd monitor (even a third if you could afford it and had desk space). This was by no means limited to just software development; CAD for architecture, engineering, biotechnology, massive DB schema's... the list goes on much longer.
Scientists, PhD candidates, physicians, veterinarians, volumetric data visualization tools all require high throughput if not the ability to do so precisely. You state "The capabilities of iOS will improve" which is almost certainly true. To say that macOS will be modified until it becomes a superset of iOS -- I agree since this is true now. iOS can trace its origins to a subset of macOS with additions to address the touch interface and lack of physical pointing device (i.e., a mouse) and lack of a dedicated physical text input device (i.e., a keyboard). There were other variations but relative to the system as a whole it did not amount to much. The primary changes to the user interface on either (iOS or macOS) would address an issue that was found to solve a problem or extend the capabilities on one of the platforms and then assuming it was something relevant it would be added to the other platforms OS for reciprocity within a relatively short period.
Based on the heritage of iOS I cannot see a place where there is a need (or desire) to cut functionality out of macOS to make it what it already is. What would the goal of this be?
My sense is that Apple is in the process of doing a major shift into new worlds of functionality with the IPad. The -Pro line was the first step. This lower end 9.7" IPad was another step...
Apple has made their intended direction for the -Pro line clear: It is to be a laptop replacement. While I doubt it will ever replace the MBP, it already has the foundation to function as a replacement for the lower end laptops -- but it continues to lack some of their functionality: Apple has it in handcuffs that limit its functionality.
For Apple, I believe that fully unveiling the enormous potential of the IPad is the next major path of innovation: - The IPhone has leveled out: While the 7 provides enormous technical advantages over the 6, it still does not offer any significant functional advantages: That is, you can do pretty much everything on a 6 that you can do on a 7. Apple can't survive on simply having superior technical features. It has survived and flourished offering functional advantages that change and improve people's lives...
- The Apple Watch has a lot of potential yet to be developed. But, it's audience is probably limited. - The TV also has a lot of potential. But it also has a lot of obstacles before it can really take off...
- And then there's the IPad. The laptop killer... For it, there is huge but largely untapped technical and functional potential along with a huge potential customer base. It can change lives in business, education, and general consumer use such as game playing and web browsing and Cloud access....
Stay tuned... I think there is 'One More Thing' coming...
Very prescient! A few hardware additions for the iPad Pro and a loosening of the iOS handcuffs for the iPad Pro line opens up a huge potential.
One thing I think that was missed in this discussion is the audio. I have a an iPad Pro and an Air 2 (and a mini) and the iPad Pro audio is so much better than the others it's like night and day. Not as good as a decicated Hifi, or even my Ruark speaker, but still outstanding for a handheld device.
"Apple's 2017 iPad vs. 2016 9.7" iPad Pro: Which model is right for you?"
None! Bring a Mac tablet. It is other world!
iOS is the future. macOS is the past. The capabilities of iOS will improve. macOS will be modified till it runs a superset of iOS. That's just the facts because their are almost a billion iOS users (plus other flavors based on tvOS and watchOS).
Bit of a logic flaw there IMHO.
Will be quite a while before macOS is the past -- Apple continues to innovate with it. Don't think for a minute that because you are not seeing a jump like System 7 to Sierra that they are done with it.
I guarantee that developing (writing code, designing UI, managing reusable code, etc...) on an iPad pro or otherwise isn't there. Using a MB with a 13" to 15" screen is a challenge even with the big leap made by Swift -- I am sure Apple would not have developed it to be multi-platform and processor agnostic just to see if they could! The more the executables run the same code (@ source level) the better the reusability as well as having an architecture that is consistent across product lines.
As a developer on the Mac since 1984 (as well as other platforms) although you could write code on a Mac and build finished apps (even on a 128K in asm) but it was painful. Even the step up to 13" color was a leap from the 9" on the Mac (128k, 512k, Plus...) but most serious developers used a 2nd monitor (even a third if you could afford it and had desk space). This was by no means limited to just software development; CAD for architecture, engineering, biotechnology, massive DB schema's... the list goes on much longer.
Scientists, PhD candidates, physicians, veterinarians, volumetric data visualization tools all require high throughput if not the ability to do so precisely. You state "The capabilities of iOS will improve" which is almost certainly true. To say that macOS will be modified until it becomes a superset of iOS -- I agree since this is true now. iOS can trace its origins to a subset of macOS with additions to address the touch interface and lack of physical pointing device (i.e., a mouse) and lack of a dedicated physical text input device (i.e., a keyboard). There were other variations but relative to the system as a whole it did not amount to much. The primary changes to the user interface on either (iOS or macOS) would address an issue that was found to solve a problem or extend the capabilities on one of the platforms and then assuming it was something relevant it would be added to the other platforms OS for reciprocity within a relatively short period.
Based on the heritage of iOS I cannot see a place where there is a need (or desire) to cut functionality out of macOS to make it what it already is. What would the goal of this be?
Good points, all!
IMO, iOS does not go far enough to exploit the capabilities of the current iPad Pro line -- and what I suspect will be in the new iPad Pros. I suspect that Apple has great plans for the iPad Pro -- including significant penetration on the creative/developer/business/enterprise/health care/government/education/defense markets. I believe that most of the iPad Pros will often be used with both a kb and Pencil (with a cursor on the screen) -- and the ability to connect, and be connected to external devices...
If so, then iOS will need to evolve into something closer to macOS... Or, maybe better, iOS and macOS both morph into proOS -- which is capable of satisfying Pro User needs on both a Mac and an iPad Pro.
iPad and iPad Pro need better screen resolution. After spending some time with iPad Mini 4, larger iPads' resolution may appear too coarse, pixels are easily noticeable in close inspection. iPad Mini 4's resolution is the same as iPhone 7's, 326 ppi.
One thing I think that was missed in this discussion is the audio. I have a an iPad Pro and an Air 2 (and a mini) and the iPad Pro audio is so much better than the others it's like night and day. Not as good as a decicated Hifi, or even my Ruark speaker, but still outstanding for a handheld device.
How do we know the new iPad doesn't have a laminated display? And if it does not, why does it not? And no mention of the True Tone display, better camera and four speakers.
Millennials don't read or research anything. They don't have time because they have to finish Super Mario Run. They get their news from the headlines while sitting on the couch watching X-Men.
comparing spec is all well and good but to me it's real world use that matters, I sketch and paint on an iPadPro 12" and though I have an iPad 3 with exactly the same apps loaded it's no no comparison between the two when it comes to which works well and which doesn't , true the smaller tablet does not have the same kind of pen technology (touch sensitivity). For me the choice is about size, the old pads are way too small, every thing works so much better at a bigger scale, you buy the small one only if portability and weight are the main concerns, my advice wait for the 12" refresh the current processes sounds good spec wise but in reality is being taxed way too much, its only just up to the job and as for memory it could at least do with a doubling of the highest current tier
Comments
You're welcome to feel that I'm wrong -- I do, and have, made corrections! But -- I continue to stand by what's here, as-is.
I agree. For me the improved audio on the 9.7 Pro is worth the price difference by itself. The other features are nice, but not worth the expense IMO. But the improved audio is awesome (IMO of course).
That's just the facts because their are almost a billion iOS users (plus other flavors based on tvOS and watchOS).
I have an iPad Air 2 and if you all you are doing is watching movies/tv/web surfing/or email it's a great machine. And I think that this new iPad is also a great machine that will hopefully get people into pads.
As great of a machine that the iPadPro may be for artists with the Pencil. Its' not going to motivate me to upgrade. If they add mouse support to the Pro then I will definitely upgrade. Apple needs to expand the reach of the Pro to more users.
They should release an iOS based laptop based on the iPadPro. 12.9 model laptop with 360 degree reversible hinge so that they keyboard base could either get our of the way (flip behind the screen) or use as a regular keyboard. Keep the weight down to 2 lbs. Start it at $999 for 128 GB, $1199 for 128 , and $1399 for $256 GB, and you have the perfect replacement for the Mac book AIR which should be dropped from the line up at this point. 4 GB RAM is fine. Just need to keep the battery life at 10 hours.
Will be quite a while before macOS is the past -- Apple continues to innovate with it. Don't think for a minute that because you are not seeing a jump like System 7 to Sierra that they are done with it.
I guarantee that developing (writing code, designing UI, managing reusable code, etc...) on an iPad pro or otherwise isn't there. Using a MB with a 13" to 15" screen is a challenge even with the big leap made by Swift -- I am sure Apple would not have developed it to be multi-platform and processor agnostic just to see if they could! The more the executables run the same code (@ source level) the better the reusability as well as having an architecture that is consistent across product lines.
As a developer on the Mac since 1984 (as well as other platforms) although you could write code on a Mac and build finished apps (even on a 128K in asm) but it was painful. Even the step up to 13" color was a leap from the 9" on the Mac (128k, 512k, Plus...) but most serious developers used a 2nd monitor (even a third if you could afford it and had desk space). This was by no means limited to just software development; CAD for architecture, engineering, biotechnology, massive DB schema's... the list goes on much longer.
Scientists, PhD candidates, physicians, veterinarians, volumetric data visualization tools all require high throughput if not the ability to do so precisely. You state "The capabilities of iOS will improve" which is almost certainly true. To say that macOS will be modified until it becomes a superset of iOS -- I agree since this is true now. iOS can trace its origins to a subset of macOS with additions to address the touch interface and lack of physical pointing device (i.e., a mouse) and lack of a dedicated physical text input device (i.e., a keyboard). There were other variations but relative to the system as a whole it did not amount to much. The primary changes to the user interface on either (iOS or macOS) would address an issue that was found to solve a problem or extend the capabilities on one of the platforms and then assuming it was something relevant it would be added to the other platforms OS for reciprocity within a relatively short period.
Based on the heritage of iOS I cannot see a place where there is a need (or desire) to cut functionality out of macOS to make it what it already is. What would the goal of this be?
Very prescient! A few hardware additions for the iPad Pro and a loosening of the iOS handcuffs for the iPad Pro line opens up a huge potential.
Good points, all!
IMO, iOS does not go far enough to exploit the capabilities of the current iPad Pro line -- and what I suspect will be in the new iPad Pros. I suspect that Apple has great plans for the iPad Pro -- including significant penetration on the creative/developer/business/enterprise/health care/government/education/defense markets. I believe that most of the iPad Pros will often be used with both a kb and Pencil (with a cursor on the screen) -- and the ability to connect, and be connected to external devices...
If so, then iOS will need to evolve into something closer to macOS... Or, maybe better, iOS and macOS both morph into proOS -- which is capable of satisfying Pro User needs on both a Mac and an iPad Pro.
Kinda' an suvOS?