In two-pronged attack, Microsoft intros low-end Windows 10 S, high-end $999+ Surface Lapto...

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 81
    karmadavekarmadave Posts: 368member
    I see this more as a product to push the Windows OEM's to deliver more solutions in the $1000 price band. Apple's play is really MacBook Air, in this segment, which competes quite nicely against the Windows Surface. Sure, the MacBook doesn't have a touch screen, but if you want a touch screen then buy a tablet. Given that Microsoft makes almost no money, on hardware, I sort of see this as a 'who cares?' Besides, the iPad Pro could be tweaked to better compete with the Surface at a much lower price. That's my $.02...
    watto_cobraObjectiveTechFan
  • Reply 42 of 81
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 11,754member
    Perfect timing for Microsoft to catch up to Apple as it clumsily stumbles with MBP.
    The MBP isn't stumbling -- Apple just had a record quarter in Mac sales. What are people buying? Not the MP, not the Mini. MacBooks are bigger sellers than iMacs. So that leaves the old Air, the new MB, and the new MBP. 
    watto_cobrabrucemc
  • Reply 43 of 81
    BluntBlunt Posts: 224member
    Nice design, very good intro video. One problem i still dislike Windows, it's ugly.
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 44 of 81
    BluntBlunt Posts: 224member
    Andy1984 said:
    I'm sorry but is it at all possible for Microsoft to release anything without copying Apple? That whole video was literally the same intro video for the 2016 MacBook Pro, even down to the clip with the colored powders on the screen. Come on! Can't you do anything without copying Apple, Microsoft??? Not even a simple intro video???? 
    A simple intro video? It's a lot harder then you think. But of course you are right it's almost an Apple video.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 81
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    Blunt said:
    Nice design, very good intro video. One problem i still dislike Windows, it's ugly.
    As Steve Jobs famously said, they have "no taste".
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 81
    curtis hannahcurtis hannah Posts: 1,805member
    Consider the CPU is actually dual core on both i5/i7, I would say it's just a "Air with a good screen", instead of high end
    although it might trigger Apple to renew their MacBook Air? Just double the ppi and upgrade the CPU and they have something new to sell
    Why does Apple need to renew the MacBook Air when they have the MacBook?
    Either way they need to maintain the $1000 price point,(this is my opinion of course), they will haft to kill the current model air, so unless they upgrade it(which I doubt given the current shift to USB c/Thunderbolt 3),  the best guess is that they then develop an $1000 model of the macbook.
  • Reply 47 of 81
    kamiltonkamilton Posts: 281member
    It's a JOKE.  Next?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 81
    Nameo_Nameo_ Posts: 34member
    Looks nice. I'm not a MS or APPL shareholder so I hope they sell some good number of those and hopefully there will be some competition between Mac and Surface.
    ObjectiveTechFan
  • Reply 49 of 81
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,935member
    I wonder why Microsoft didn't start with this thing, a conventional laptop design, instead of the oddball approaches they've been spinning their wheels on for more than half a decade? I'd imagine that this product is actually competing more directly with the few remaining semi-profitable PC vendors like Dell, Lenovo, HP, Asus, etc., rather than Apple. Moving from macOS to Windows would be too depressing.

    The textured surface is a bit odd and toyish, the PC equivalent to a Casio rubber watch. But maybe they'll follow up the plastic-pleathery offering with other textures like a shiny faux alligator skin, football pebbled leather, and maybe even a Pacific Northwest Sasquatch shaggy faux fur (assuming it's really faux? but maybe it's not!). 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,497member
    An interesting comparison in the classroom between Chromebooks and iPads;


    https://www.swiftteacher.org/swift-teacher/2017/4/24/uh-oh-chromebook-meet-the-new-ipad

    Oftentimes, cheaper isn't a better value.


    cornchip
  • Reply 51 of 81
    gumbi said:
    lkrupp said:
    Schools are ditching iPads for $200 ChromeBooks and this thing is supposedly aimed at the educational market? What the hell is going on here? And what about the AI trolls who are always bitching about MacBooks with the same amount of RAM and storage? This sounds really gefickt to me.
    It was a confused event.  Microsoft was billing it as an education event. So naturally people are assuming k-12 and a chromebook competitor. Instead they announce a laptop designed to compete with the MacBook or MacBook Air not a chrome book.  It's like they didn't think they could have an event just to announce the laptop so they threw some education stuff in there to try and make it a complete event. People talk about Apple's sometimes confusing naming conventions. Here we have Surface Pro, Surface Book and now Surface Laptop. How is that not confusing?

    No it wasn't.   Windows 10s is what they are targeting at K-12.  The Surface Laptop is not targeted at that market at all - there are several hardware vendors that are making the hardware for that market - starting at the $189 price point. 

    It's typical, but, apple users have NO clue as to what Windows 10s is.  Windows 10s IS Windows 10 Pro with a couple of modifications - mainly involving startup, locking it to the windows store (a feature that is actually in Windows 10 Creators Update), and it can't be managed through on premise AD.  Windows 10s is meant to be managed by cloud by a cloud based MDM solution (Intune for education being the main one).  The point of windows 10s is to compete with ChromeOS - cheap hardware and easy to manage.  Most American school districts have very little in the way of funds for IT, so can't spend money on expensive devices and device management.  This is why Chromebooks are so popular in this market - and are eroding both Apple's and Microsoft's market share in that area (if you look at the actual numbers it has much more harm to Apple then MS at this point, but, it's only a matter of time before it starts really hurting MS as well).   What Windows 10 s gives them is a secure easily managed and restricted environment with the ability to easily switch profiles.  

    Being locked to the Windows store in that environment is not really a hindrance -  its a safety and performance feature.  It seems to be little realized, but, even Win32 desktop applications can be made available to the Windows store via the Centennial bridge.   There are a number of those applications on the store today - Adobe Photoshop Elements 15 being one example.  Full Microsoft Office will also soon becoming to the Windows store as was announced today along with the Spotify desktop application.

    "The point of windows 10s is to compete with ChromeOS - cheap hardware and easy to manage"

    OK, maybe it's easy to manage, but as Editor Mike W. pointed out in reply #20, "for the record, the i7 version with 16GB and 512GB SSD is $2299, and still has Windows 10S." That ain't cheap!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 81
    I don't think people get Microsoft's strategy with Surface line - make the best product technically possible with Windows to set a benchmark to drive the other PC OEMs to compete and raise the perception, image, quality and competitiveness of PC design vs Apple (and in this case Google chrome books). IF they happen to make a few billion so much the better. Apple makes software to sell hardware. Microsoft is making hardware to sell software.

    I have used the Surface pro 4 keyboards and love the feel of the soft material vs my macbook's cold sharp aluminum edges - not to mention decent full travel keys. $999 for a high res screen (not the air's tiny crappy TN display). No schools will buy them, but plenty of well heeled students will. The magsafe docks are really nice too. The only mistep here is not including a Yoga 3 type fold back screen for use in tablet mode. Not sure why they left that out. Pretty tempting hackintosh dual boot platform - but it needs a 1TB SSD option - but probably can swap the SSD out.

    Apple - once again the competition is swinging and hitting and it's strikes from your corner. We need the bean counter Cook to go and someone like Panos Panay to run the Mac department. Apple should just poach him for 100 mil - it would be worth it.
  • Reply 53 of 81
    Andy1984Andy1984 Posts: 8member
    Blunt said:
    Andy1984 said:
    I'm sorry but is it at all possible for Microsoft to release anything without copying Apple? That whole video was literally the same intro video for the 2016 MacBook Pro, even down to the clip with the colored powders on the screen. Come on! Can't you do anything without copying Apple, Microsoft??? Not even a simple intro video???? 
    A simple intro video? It's a lot harder then you think. But of course you are right it's almost an Apple video.
    I do know how hard it is. And it's not hard at all. Making a video to showcase your product is not all that difficult, if you know what you are doing. What Microsoft did was lazy and without taste. Simply copying someone else's video verbatim is lazy and tasteless. And that's besides the fact that Microsoft's whole business has been built by ripping off others. 

    And if if you don't believe me, go watch the videos side by side. They are virtually identical, except Microsoft's doesn't have Jonny Ive narrating it. 


    watto_cobra
  • Reply 54 of 81
    pscooter63pscooter63 Posts: 1,059member
    Blunt said:
    Nice design, very good intro video. One problem i still dislike Windows, it's ugly.
    As Steve Jobs famously said, they have "no taste".
    Here's a case where ugly is more than skin-deep.  (Looking at you, Windows 10...)
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 81
    gumbigumbi Posts: 148member
    gumbi said:
    lkrupp said:
    Schools are ditching iPads for $200 ChromeBooks and this thing is supposedly aimed at the educational market? What the hell is going on here? And what about the AI trolls who are always bitching about MacBooks with the same amount of RAM and storage? This sounds really gefickt to me.
    It was a confused event.  Microsoft was billing it as an education event. So naturally people are assuming k-12 and a chromebook competitor. Instead they announce a laptop designed to compete with the MacBook or MacBook Air not a chrome book.  It's like they didn't think they could have an event just to announce the laptop so they threw some education stuff in there to try and make it a complete event. People talk about Apple's sometimes confusing naming conventions. Here we have Surface Pro, Surface Book and now Surface Laptop. How is that not confusing?

    No it wasn't.   Windows 10s is what they are targeting at K-12.  The Surface Laptop is not targeted at that market at all - there are several hardware vendors that are making the hardware for that market - starting at the $189 price point. 

    It's typical, but, apple users have NO clue as to what Windows 10s is.  Windows 10s IS Windows 10 Pro with a couple of modifications - mainly involving startup, locking it to the windows store (a feature that is actually in Windows 10 Creators Update), and it can't be managed through on premise AD.  Windows 10s is meant to be managed by cloud by a cloud based MDM solution (Intune for education being the main one).  The point of windows 10s is to compete with ChromeOS - cheap hardware and easy to manage.  Most American school districts have very little in the way of funds for IT, so can't spend money on expensive devices and device management.  This is why Chromebooks are so popular in this market - and are eroding both Apple's and Microsoft's market share in that area (if you look at the actual numbers it has much more harm to Apple then MS at this point, but, it's only a matter of time before it starts really hurting MS as well).   What Windows 10 s gives them is a secure easily managed and restricted environment with the ability to easily switch profiles.  

    Being locked to the Windows store in that environment is not really a hindrance -  its a safety and performance feature.  It seems to be little realized, but, even Win32 desktop applications can be made available to the Windows store via the Centennial bridge.   There are a number of those applications on the store today - Adobe Photoshop Elements 15 being one example.  Full Microsoft Office will also soon becoming to the Windows store as was announced today along with the Spotify desktop application.

    "The point of windows 10s is to compete with ChromeOS - cheap hardware and easy to manage"

    OK, maybe it's easy to manage, but as Editor Mike W. pointed out in reply #20, "for the record, the i7 version with 16GB and 512GB SSD is $2299, and still has Windows 10S." That ain't cheap!
    Nope, the Surface laptop is not cheap.  The cheap will come from the OEM's - the first coming soon, starting at $189. 
  • Reply 56 of 81
    gumbi said:
    gumbi said:
    lkrupp said:
    Schools are ditching iPads for $200 ChromeBooks and this thing is supposedly aimed at the educational market? What the hell is going on here? And what about the AI trolls who are always bitching about MacBooks with the same amount of RAM and storage? This sounds really gefickt to me.
    It was a confused event.  Microsoft was billing it as an education event. So naturally people are assuming k-12 and a chromebook competitor. Instead they announce a laptop designed to compete with the MacBook or MacBook Air not a chrome book.  It's like they didn't think they could have an event just to announce the laptop so they threw some education stuff in there to try and make it a complete event. People talk about Apple's sometimes confusing naming conventions. Here we have Surface Pro, Surface Book and now Surface Laptop. How is that not confusing?

    No it wasn't.   Windows 10s is what they are targeting at K-12.  The Surface Laptop is not targeted at that market at all - there are several hardware vendors that are making the hardware for that market - starting at the $189 price point. 

    It's typical, but, apple users have NO clue as to what Windows 10s is.  Windows 10s IS Windows 10 Pro with a couple of modifications - mainly involving startup, locking it to the windows store (a feature that is actually in Windows 10 Creators Update), and it can't be managed through on premise AD.  Windows 10s is meant to be managed by cloud by a cloud based MDM solution (Intune for education being the main one).  The point of windows 10s is to compete with ChromeOS - cheap hardware and easy to manage.  Most American school districts have very little in the way of funds for IT, so can't spend money on expensive devices and device management.  This is why Chromebooks are so popular in this market - and are eroding both Apple's and Microsoft's market share in that area (if you look at the actual numbers it has much more harm to Apple then MS at this point, but, it's only a matter of time before it starts really hurting MS as well).   What Windows 10 s gives them is a secure easily managed and restricted environment with the ability to easily switch profiles.  

    Being locked to the Windows store in that environment is not really a hindrance -  its a safety and performance feature.  It seems to be little realized, but, even Win32 desktop applications can be made available to the Windows store via the Centennial bridge.   There are a number of those applications on the store today - Adobe Photoshop Elements 15 being one example.  Full Microsoft Office will also soon becoming to the Windows store as was announced today along with the Spotify desktop application.

    "The point of windows 10s is to compete with ChromeOS - cheap hardware and easy to manage"

    OK, maybe it's easy to manage, but as Editor Mike W. pointed out in reply #20, "for the record, the i7 version with 16GB and 512GB SSD is $2299, and still has Windows 10S." That ain't cheap!
    Nope, the Surface laptop is not cheap.  The cheap will come from the OEM's - the first coming soon, starting at $189. 
    Well sure, I get that there will be cheap options. I was just taking issue with the statement that "the point of Windows 10 S is to compete with ChromeOS." That might be a particular strategy point for MS, but obviously not their only point if it is being included on an expensive Surface laptop.
  • Reply 57 of 81
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    I don't think people get Microsoft's strategy with Surface line - make the best product technically possible with Windows to set a benchmark to drive the other PC OEMs to compete and raise the perception, image, quality and competitiveness of PC design vs Apple (and in this case Google chrome books). IF they happen to make a few billion so much the better. Apple makes software to sell hardware. Microsoft is making hardware to sell software.

    I have used the Surface pro 4 keyboards and love the feel of the soft material vs my macbook's cold sharp aluminum edges - not to mention decent full travel keys. $999 for a high res screen (not the air's tiny crappy TN display). No schools will buy them, but plenty of well heeled students will. The magsafe docks are really nice too. The only mistep here is not including a Yoga 3 type fold back screen for use in tablet mode. Not sure why they left that out. Pretty tempting hackintosh dual boot platform - but it needs a 1TB SSD option - but probably can swap the SSD out.

    Apple - once again the competition is swinging and hitting and it's strikes from your corner. We need the bean counter Cook to go and someone like Panos Panay to run the Mac department. Apple should just poach him for 100 mil - it would be worth it.
    This makes no sense. We always hear about the "hey it's only an example to push the rest of the industry" excuse when MS creates something totally boring, horribly priced, that will sell well below even the competition whom they like to regard as pretentious niche-players, and which boasts performance that is underwhelming compared to the very OEM players they want to allegedly inspire to excellence.

    Imagine a board member hearing this nonsense...  "hey we're investing all this research and money in it as an 'example' and if we sell a few, what a bonus!"

    MS has never understood hardware outside of game consoles, and has never been able to compete with Apple in the market segments that Apple rules. 
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 58 of 81
    bestkeptsecretbestkeptsecret Posts: 4,076member
    notso said:
    As a decade old Mac user who moved back to Microsoft last year due to the Mac's rubbish keyboard and same same design its good to see Microsoft forging ahead, experimenting with design and trying different things - sure some will poo poo the spec's (especially on this forum) but I really haven't seen Apple do anything that's remotely interesting for over 5 years other than make things thinner and take away features.


    I'm actually impressed you had the balls to move away.

    I'm using Windows at work and macOS at home and just can't wait for the next iteration of the MBP. Once it releases, I'll go with Bootcamp/ Fusion/ Parallels and ditch the Surface Pro 3 that I'm currently using.

    I don't agree that there is nothing interesting from Apple though. The Macs have constantly improved and the 5K iMac I have is the best desktop/ AIO I've ever used in my 20 years of computing.


    rezwitsSpamSandwichbrucemc
  • Reply 59 of 81
    rezwitsrezwits Posts: 758member
    Hey guys, a let's just try an um end a rumor that's been kinda getting around OK?  What is this rumor you ask?  The rumor that "Hey, you know what Windows 10 isn't really actually all that bad, Microsoft is actually doing pretty good now days, and Windows is kinda alright now"  RUBISH!  END THIS BS rumor, that was started a little bit before the 2016 rMBPwTB came out...  This is as misleading as things get.  Windows 10 SUCKS. PERIOD.

    They are forcing you to update and have the latest WHATEVER they want to feed you.  You get little choice.   They are going down a road where they want to dumb you down, into paying for Windows Cloud at $9.99 a month and Ofice 365 for $9.99 a month or both (hey what a deal!) for $14.99 a month!  by 2020.  And you get CRAP!  PLEASE END this rumor for all of these helpless Microsoft wanderers...just buy an XBox and that can be your Desktop or Console, and you get Windows, if you want to game.

    Ok back to not feeling sorry for them... :D I am ok now, let um perish...I do have feelings tho...haha
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 60 of 81
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,054member
    notso said:
    As a decade old Mac user who moved back to Microsoft last year due to the Mac's rubbish keyboard and same same design its good to see Microsoft forging ahead, experimenting with design and trying different things - sure some will poo poo the spec's (especially on this forum) but I really haven't seen Apple do anything that's remotely interesting for over 5 years other than make things thinner and take away features.
    I can't stand the new mac keyboards.    1/2 the Travel twice the cost. The keyboard on this looks nice but other than that not as nice a regular laptop that doesn't have a 360 degree hinge which is the best way for taking notes with the keyboard out of the way.    They were probably smart to get this out before the back to school season.   But this probably means the Surface Pro 5 and Surface Book 2 won't be out till fall.  All in All MEH even when I still liked some things like speakers through the keyboard or the thin touch screen.

    Apple needs to enhance iOS to add Mouse Support to the iPadPro and make an iOS based laptop.   One model for $250 using an A9 chip with a multi-color polycarbonate body and a 9 inch screen for the education market and young.   A higher end model with pen and mouse support designed to replace the Air as the intro laptop based on A10 chip and 12.9 screen with a 360 degree hinge at less than 2.00 pounds.   This needs to be the laptop for getting people to come over from Windows and ChromeBooks.
    GeorgeBMac
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