A 4% growth isn't that impressive for the Mac when you think of how long last year's MBP has been around for without a major refresh. More interesting year-of-year Mac numbers will come this period next year, if Apple has updated the lineup in a major way by then. More powerful iMacs could fill a gap there, but it will be interesting. Not that I give a shit what the exact numbers are, however. I care more about the machines and the software itself vs boring Wall St. talk surrounding the company.
Let's not forget the macOS advantage in all this talk of the Mac's status. What has any so called competitor got, Linus flavors and Windows! Sheesh.
It's "Linux", and a huge advantage of the Mac is largely attributable to the Linux community. The Mac just happens to be binary-compatible, so we get much of the same software.
As a website developer, I develop on a Mac, but run my sites on 20+ Linux servers. I can install the same software on both, just as easily. No graphic interface nonsense needed due to handy package managers. I use MacPorts on my Mac, and Aptitude on Ubuntu.
Windows is an entirely different ball of wax and just as slimy.
Glad to hear this, and I'm beginning to think he means it.
I suspect that Apple miscalculated when they saw the iPad initially skyrocket in sales, and underestimated (and underinvested in) the future of the Mac.
Hopefully now they genuinely appreciate the importance of the Mac and we can put the unpleasantness of the last few years behind us.
I think you have that backwards. People saw the iPad's skyrocketing popularity and assuming that the Mac was going to fade away, like the iPod did soon after the iPhone arrived. That's been Sog's mantra—at least until this thread where he states that Mac sales are beautiful.
When I look at the Macs that were selling in 2010 v today all I see a major innovations that have pushed the Mac far beyond what I could've imagined back when the iPad launched. How can you look at the MacBook and think that Apple has underinvested in all those parts that go into it? They built an entire chip and forked watchOS so they could put a second copy of OS X into their notebook to securely run Touch ID and Apple Pay. What other PC vendor has done anything like that? They pushed companies specifically to create their own controllers to make their PCIe SSDs the fastest on the market when no one was complaining about SSD speeds and I don't think those controllers are used in an iDevice today. Even their displays are getting better color quality which I don't think any normal user will be able to tell the color quality simply by looking at the screen, unless they do a comparison to another MBP or use a color accuracy sensor.
And do you remember the 5K iMac announcement? Not 4K, but 5K!, and they did it by inventing a new timid controller to support 67% more pixels than a 4K display. The notion that Macs were going to disappear was only tabled by the shortsighted and conspiracy theorists, not Apple.
edit:
Fully in agreement with you. In some areas of the business - like the low volume Mac Pro - Apple has clearly either under invested, or taken the wrong path, or a mixture of the two. In the laptop and consumer segments where it matters (not the Mini), Apple has produced some great machines. Touch Bar is a big bet, and its payoff is not guaranteed, but it requires more than 6 months to say if it is successful w.r.t. usage and application support. Clearly the new MBP units are selling well.
The last couple of years have had perhaps some missteps by Apple, as well as some messaging challenges (outside of MP): 1) The MB Air were their best selling machines - especially the 13" - and this hasn't had any meaningful updates in 3 years. It seems clear that Apple intends for the retina MB to replace this in future, but it isn't there yet (12" screen too small for many, expensive except for those willing to pay for the small/light chassis, and underpowered). This has left somewhat of a gap in the lineup. Also, I think having an entry product at the $999 range is important to not leave a pricing umbrella in the premium tier (we see MSFT now targeting this).
2) Annual updates. Without meaningful new CPU models each year, there is clearly a dilemma regarding annual updates to every line. If Apple does just a spec bump to latest CPU/GPU, it will not be noticed by many, and criticized as underwhelming / no innovation / why should I upgrade /...(the usual). When they don't update the line, Apple are accused of neglecting the line, selling "ancient" hardware, etc. It is the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario.
The state of the mac went from stale to dusty to long silence to emergency catch-up mode. Ugly.
Nonsense. My 5K iMac is stunning, best made, current, and can handle way more than I can thought at it. Stop fabricating nonsense and passing it off as fact.
The state of the mac went from stale to dusty to long silence to emergency catch-up mode. Ugly.
But Mac sales are still growing aren’t they. That’s the trouble with stating lies as fact. My late 2013 iMac 14,2 outperforms my wife’s six month old HP laptop with an I7 quad-core processor. The difference is astonishing.
First, Apple never, ever would abandon general computing. To think they would is absurd. Same goes for pro devices.
The issue (once again) is that technology in the high end has stagnated, at least in the area where Apple is most profitable... portable computers (laptops). This is where the majority of their macOS userbase lives and the trajectory they see in the marketplace.
The issue is that Intel has worked on more power efficient designs, but not necessarily more powerful designs. Their chips are marginally faster with each iteration, and have become more efficient. Intel has slowed down below Moore's Law. They've moved from tick/tock release cycles to "tick tock tock tock" cycles, with each new chip not really effecting performance, but supporting more features (USB 3.0, USB 3.1, TB3, etc). Simply put... there is not any room for performance growth without changing the thermal and power thresholds in Apple's designs. They are not one to be held captive by the business strategies of another company (see PowerVR/Imagination Technologies). Intel has also worked hard to sellout on Apple's MacBook Air success by encouraging Apple's competition to create Ultrabooks, Chromebooks, etc.
I believe what Apple is waiting for is the moment when A-series chips become powerful enough to compete with Intel chips. Not just powerful enough, but more powerful so they can tout some level of superiority over Intel chips. This would allow them to redesign the MacBook with an A-series chip instead of Core-M. This would provide better performance as well as superior battery life. I think Apple is heading for completely controlling the vertical of their industry to give them a strategic edge. They've seen it with iPhone and now they are back porting it to Mac.
Of course Apple will continue to use Intel in pro-level products and I expect them to redevelop the MacPro into a more professional-oriented variation that would fit in a rack and be upgradable.
My hope is that they would see the logic in a product that I think would replace the "trash can" MacPro... there's a need for professionals to be mobile (laptops) but require more power when sitting at a desk. The perfect combination would be a device that's like a hub that you connect into that provides additional processing power, GPU and connectivity to your desk's functionality. That would allow workstations to be set up in an office and the user would simply plug in their laptop to enhance the experience specific to that task.
Anyway, just some thoughts. I think Apple is in a lull due to market and industry forces and are waiting for technology to catchup.
The state of the mac went from stale to dusty to long silence to emergency catch-up mode. Ugly.
Nonsense. My 5K iMac is stunning, best made, current, and can handle way more than I can thought at it. Stop fabricating nonsense and passing it off as fact.
Yeah, my 5K iMac is great too.
Just FYI, mine came out in 2014. Apple updated it once in 2015.
The rumored "server-grade" iMac reportedly sports the Xeon E3-1285 processor, between 16 and 64 gigabytes of ECC RAM, up to 2TB of NVMe SSE storage, and the "latest" discrete GPU.
I can't believe this rumor is serious. Really WTF. Why would an iMac customer want ECC RAM? That's all anyone is getting over say a Core i7-7700k. Is there some iMac customer out there that runs it as server? I guess I don't know where all these single socket Xeons go? Anyone? Mini workstations? Blade servers?
The rumored "server-grade" iMac reportedly sports the Xeon E3-1285 processor, between 16 and 64 gigabytes of ECC RAM, up to 2TB of NVMe SSE storage, and the "latest" discrete GPU.
I can't believe this rumor is serious. Really WTF. Why would an iMac customer want ECC RAM? That's all anyone is getting over say a Core i7-7700k. Is there some iMac customer out there that runs it as server? I guess I don't know where all these single socket Xeons go? Anyone? Mini workstations? Blade servers?
Maybe we'll see iMacs bought in bulk, their stands removed and then slid into racks with their monitors facing down¡
The state of the mac went from stale to dusty to long silence to emergency catch-up mode. Ugly.
Yep. Hard to ensure the frontrunner position of the iPhone when you refuse to update the computers needed by professional app developers to ensure those cutting edge apps can continue to be made! Not to be too dramatic about it, but Apple has developed some real blindspots about what pro users want in their Apple computers.
Has anyone seen that picture above of Steve Jobs near what looks like a prototype iMac? I've never seen such a machine before. Did he actually have that on stage with him??
Yeah, what the heck is that thing? Maybe it's just a monitor for the presentation, with the hardware hidden under the table or offstage.
Can we PLEASE have a 17" laptop again?? I know there's others out there like me who appreciate the Real estate especially for our music and video editing software.
I was lucky enough to put mine in for "Tune Up", the program Apple offers for computer under 5 years old. For $276 they will tear it a part and replace anything they think might be going bad or going bad over the next 12 months - all for just st $276.
I got very lucky when I did my "Tune Up" (although I'm still pissed at the outcome)...
I sent mine in just because I was 2 months from the 5 year cut off allowed for TUNE UP. I asked them to look at my mouse, it wasn't clicking evenly and not passing the "12 point" click test.
I handed it to them on a Monday. Wednesday morning I got a call "it's ready". That was so fast that I asked "did this go to Texas? I mean that was really fast turnaround!" They said "yes." I hung up and headed over.
I double parked and sent in my friend to get it. He came out and I apologized to him..."I'm so sorry. I forgot to give you my credit card for the $276. What card did you pay with? I'll pay you back"
"No card. They just handed me the computer and I left"
WTF? "You left without paying them?"
I came back around. A spot opened up so I parked and ran inside. I flagged down the manager Lateesha and explained we left without paying.
She said, "If they didn't ask for money there was no charge"
"That's impossible. It went out on "Tune Up" it's a flat rate $276 and you know it. Charge my card!!"
"Let me print out your invoice." (She looked at it then looked up and said "Ok. First off, I don't want any problems from you Joseph. I know how you can be".
Huh?
"Well according to this they replaced the mouse and the battery, because the battery was swelling slightly pushing into the mouse. That's probably the mouse problem you had. They also replaced the entire logic board and.."
"Wait. What?? Why'd they do that. It was fine!"
Looking very annoyed she continued, "They replaced your LCD screen and your..."
"Stop! What is going on? I had a mouse problem. That's it!"
"See this is what you do. you get up into my face all the time. LOL (she was laughing). They replaced the 16GB of RAM... here let me do this another way. They replaced everything internal even the screws everything except the outside case ok? Now go home".
"But why. And why the hell aren't you taking my damn card? Take it!!"
"You know as well as I do if a unit goes out for repair and the serial number is in the range of a recall then all replacements are free. That's the policy and you know it! So stop hassling me. Go home and TRY to enjoy your 'gift horse' and stop 'kicking it in the mouth!"
"Recall? What damn recall? You're making this up"
"I think it had to do with the graphics card. I don't know. Here's the recall number (pointing to the invoice) go home and look it up in your new laptop"
"But the RAM was brand new. It s just been 2 weeks?"
"It said the RAM wasn't optimized for this unit so it was replaced. Think of it this way.. now you have a back up. Now go home and leave me alone".
GRRRRRRRR! They do this shit to me all the time!
Basically I got a brand new 17". But I'd still buy a new one especially with all the faster specs and the touch bar. It's probably too much to ask for, but it would be nice since the story stated they were putting emphasis on the "Pro". I'm hoping that means double the ram and increased screen size from 15" too.
One can only dream.
Oh what the hell... maybe a hybrid running macOS and IOS on A chips? And on a 17" too?? <GRIN>
The state of the mac went from stale to dusty to long silence to emergency catch-up mode. Ugly.
Are you kidding? Get yourself a 5k iMac -- who else is doing something like that? And my MBP is an amazing notebook, the best I've ever used.
Just because the MP, which composes only a single-digit of all Mac sales, is outdated due to reasons they've explained doesnt mean Macs suck, yada yada. I'm a professional enterprise software dev and I don't even need the desktop Pro. The problem with it makes for great hand-wringing, but doesn't affect nearly as many people as the hand-wringers pretend it does.
It's interesting that when Apple doesn't update something in a while, people bring out the Mac = "stale" meme, but to drag it out so soon after the MacBook Pro gets a refresh with Touch Bar and forward-looking USB-C/Thunderbolt 3 connectors and support for dual 5K displays, and they accuse the Mac of "playing catch-up" (when no other notebook has these features)? That's flat out trolling.
Mac futures question -- can Apple run with AMD instead of Intel for CPUs? (I don't mean GPUs, as Apple already does that.)
In other words, when Apple went to the x86 architecture, was it via an *exclusive* agreement with Intel for N years, like the old Motorola arrangement until they flirted with IBM? I don't really expect an answer to this, unless it was snuck into a public addendum to a 10Q/K which I overlooked. Second sources are good, just sayin'.
I was lucky enough to put mine in for "Tune Up", the program Apple offers for computer under 5 years old. For $276 they will tear it a part and replace anything they think might be going bad or going bad over the next 12 months - all for just st $276.
I got very lucky when I did my tube up (although I'm still pissed at the outcome)...
I sent mine in just because I was 2 months from the 5 year cut of allowed for TUNE UP. I asked them to look at my mouse, it wasn't clicking evenly and not passing the "12 point" click test.
I handed it to them on a Monday. Wednesday morning I got a call "it's ready". That was so fast that I asked "did this go to Texas? I mean that was really fast turnaround!" They said "yes." I hung up and headed over.
I double parked and sent in my friend to get it. He came out and I apologized to him..."I'm so sorry. I forgot to give you my credit card for the $276. What card did you pay with? I'll pay you back"
"No card. They just handed me the computer and I left"
WTF? "You left without payment ng??"
I came back around. A spot opened up so I parked and ran inside. I flagged down the manager Lateesha and explained we left without paying.
"If they didn't ask for money there was no charge"
"That's impossible. It went out on "Tune Up" it's a flat rate $276 and you know it. Charge my card!!"
"Let me print out your invoice." (She looked at it then looked up and said "Ok. First off, I don't want any problems from you Joseph. I know how you can be".
Huh?
"Well they according to this replaced the mouse and the battery because the battery was swelling slightly pushing into the mouse. That's probably the mouse problem you had. They replaced the entire logic board and.."
"Wait. What?? Why'd they do that. It was fine!"
"They replaced your LCD screen and your..."
"Stop! What is going on? I had a mouse problem. That's it!"
"See this is what you do. you get up into my face all the time. LOL (she was laughing). They replaced the 16GB of RAM... here let me do this another way. They replaced everything internal even the screws everything except the outside case ok? Now go home".
"But why. And why the hell aren't you taking my damn card? Take it!!"
"You know as well as I do if a unit goes out for repair and the serial number is in the range of a recall then all replacements are free. You know that so stop hassling me. Go home and TRY to enjoy you 'gift horse' andcdtop kicking it in the mouth!"
"Recall? What damn recall? You're making this up"
"I think it had to do with the graphics card. I don't know. Here that's the recall number go home and look it up"
"But the RAM was brand new?"
"It said the RAM wasn't optimized for this unit so it was replaced. Think of it this way.. now you have a back up. Now go home and leave me alone".
GRRRRRRRR! They do this shit to me all the time!
Basically I got a brand new 17". But I'd still buy a new one especially with all the faster specs and the touch bar. It's probably too much Campo Verde to ask for but it would be no vs. since the story stated they were putting employee hadusbon "Pro". I'm hoping that means double the ram and increased screen size too.
One can only dream.
Presumably there are no 17" Apple laptops because there were a tiny number of people willing to buy and lug them around. They had great screens though.
Apple should release new Mac models every year. As previously done and as now does with iOS gadgets. And use standards, including ports and connectors, not using proprietary ones or soldering components like RAM, SSD, GPU and microprocessor. Not charging two to three times for the very same component as compared to resellers like Amazon.
Last but not least, Apple should focus more on headless desktop Macs and displays. All-in-one desktops are a huge waste, since computers may last for seven years, but displays last for more than 20 years.
Apple should release new Mac models every year. As previously done and as now does with iOS gadgets. And use standards, including ports and connectors, not using proprietary ones or soldering components like RAM, SSD, GPU and microprocessor. Not charging two to three times for the very same component as compared to resellers like Amazon.
Last but not least, Apple should focus more on headless desktop Macs and displays. All-in-one desktops are a huge waste, since computers may last for seven years, but displays last for more than 20 years.
Comments
It's "Linux", and a huge advantage of the Mac is largely attributable to the Linux community. The Mac just happens to be binary-compatible, so we get much of the same software.
As a website developer, I develop on a Mac, but run my sites on 20+ Linux servers. I can install the same software on both, just as easily. No graphic interface nonsense needed due to handy package managers. I use MacPorts on my Mac, and Aptitude on Ubuntu.
Windows is an entirely different ball of wax and just as slimy.
The last couple of years have had perhaps some missteps by Apple, as well as some messaging challenges (outside of MP):
1) The MB Air were their best selling machines - especially the 13" - and this hasn't had any meaningful updates in 3 years. It seems clear that Apple intends for the retina MB to replace this in future, but it isn't there yet (12" screen too small for many, expensive except for those willing to pay for the small/light chassis, and underpowered). This has left somewhat of a gap in the lineup. Also, I think having an entry product at the $999 range is important to not leave a pricing umbrella in the premium tier (we see MSFT now targeting this).
2) Annual updates. Without meaningful new CPU models each year, there is clearly a dilemma regarding annual updates to every line. If Apple does just a spec bump to latest CPU/GPU, it will not be noticed by many, and criticized as underwhelming / no innovation / why should I upgrade /...(the usual). When they don't update the line, Apple are accused of neglecting the line, selling "ancient" hardware, etc. It is the damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't scenario.
First, Apple never, ever would abandon general computing. To think they would is absurd. Same goes for pro devices.
The issue (once again) is that technology in the high end has stagnated, at least in the area where Apple is most profitable... portable computers (laptops). This is where the majority of their macOS userbase lives and the trajectory they see in the marketplace.
The issue is that Intel has worked on more power efficient designs, but not necessarily more powerful designs. Their chips are marginally faster with each iteration, and have become more efficient. Intel has slowed down below Moore's Law. They've moved from tick/tock release cycles to "tick tock tock tock" cycles, with each new chip not really effecting performance, but supporting more features (USB 3.0, USB 3.1, TB3, etc). Simply put... there is not any room for performance growth without changing the thermal and power thresholds in Apple's designs. They are not one to be held captive by the business strategies of another company (see PowerVR/Imagination Technologies). Intel has also worked hard to sellout on Apple's MacBook Air success by encouraging Apple's competition to create Ultrabooks, Chromebooks, etc.
I believe what Apple is waiting for is the moment when A-series chips become powerful enough to compete with Intel chips. Not just powerful enough, but more powerful so they can tout some level of superiority over Intel chips. This would allow them to redesign the MacBook with an A-series chip instead of Core-M. This would provide better performance as well as superior battery life. I think Apple is heading for completely controlling the vertical of their industry to give them a strategic edge. They've seen it with iPhone and now they are back porting it to Mac.
Of course Apple will continue to use Intel in pro-level products and I expect them to redevelop the MacPro into a more professional-oriented variation that would fit in a rack and be upgradable.
My hope is that they would see the logic in a product that I think would replace the "trash can" MacPro... there's a need for professionals to be mobile (laptops) but require more power when sitting at a desk. The perfect combination would be a device that's like a hub that you connect into that provides additional processing power, GPU and connectivity to your desk's functionality. That would allow workstations to be set up in an office and the user would simply plug in their laptop to enhance the experience specific to that task.
Anyway, just some thoughts. I think Apple is in a lull due to market and industry forces and are waiting for technology to catchup.
Just FYI, mine came out in 2014. Apple updated it once in 2015.
This is 2017.
I can't believe this rumor is serious. Really WTF. Why would an iMac customer want ECC RAM? That's all anyone is getting over say a Core i7-7700k. Is there some iMac customer out there that runs it as server? I guess I don't know where all these single socket Xeons go? Anyone? Mini workstations? Blade servers?
Yeah, what the heck is that thing? Maybe it's just a monitor for the presentation, with the hardware hidden under the table or offstage.
I was lucky enough to put mine in for "Tune Up", the program Apple offers for computer under 5 years old. For $276 they will tear it a part and replace anything they think might be going bad or going bad over the next 12 months - all for just st $276.
I got very lucky when I did my "Tune Up" (although I'm still pissed at the outcome)...
I sent mine in just because I was 2 months from the 5 year cut off allowed for TUNE UP. I asked them to look at my mouse, it wasn't clicking evenly and not passing the "12 point" click test. I handed it to them on a Monday. Wednesday morning I got a call "it's ready". That was so fast that I asked "did this go to Texas? I mean that was really fast turnaround!" They said "yes." I hung up and headed over.
I double parked and sent in my friend to get it. He came out and I apologized to him..."I'm so sorry. I forgot to give you my credit card for the $276. What card did you pay with? I'll pay you back"
"No card. They just handed me the computer and I left"
WTF? "You left without paying them?"
I came back around. A spot opened up so I parked and ran inside. I flagged down the manager Lateesha and explained we left without paying.
She said, "If they didn't ask for money there was no charge"
"That's impossible. It went out on "Tune Up" it's a flat rate $276 and you know it. Charge my card!!"
"Let me print out your invoice." (She looked at it then looked up and said "Ok. First off, I don't want any problems from you Joseph. I know how you can be".
Huh?
"Well according to this they replaced the mouse and the battery, because the battery was swelling slightly pushing into the mouse. That's probably the mouse problem you had. They also replaced the entire logic board and.."
"Wait. What?? Why'd they do that. It was fine!"
Looking very annoyed she continued, "They replaced your LCD screen and your..."
"Stop! What is going on? I had a mouse problem. That's it!"
"See this is what you do. you get up into my face all the time. LOL (she was laughing). They replaced the 16GB of RAM... here let me do this another way. They replaced everything internal even the screws everything except the outside case ok? Now go home".
"But why. And why the hell aren't you taking my damn card? Take it!!"
"You know as well as I do if a unit goes out for repair and the serial number is in the range of a recall then all replacements are free. That's the policy and you know it! So stop hassling me. Go home and TRY to enjoy your 'gift horse' and stop 'kicking it in the mouth!"
"Recall? What damn recall? You're making this up"
"I think it had to do with the graphics card. I don't know. Here's the recall number (pointing to the invoice) go home and look it up in your new laptop"
"But the RAM was brand new. It s just been 2 weeks?"
"It said the RAM wasn't optimized for this unit so it was replaced. Think of it this way.. now you have a back up. Now go home and leave me alone".
GRRRRRRRR! They do this shit to me all the time! Basically I got a brand new 17". But I'd still buy a new one especially with all the faster specs and the touch bar. It's probably too much to ask for, but it would be nice since the story stated they were putting emphasis on the "Pro". I'm hoping that means double the ram and increased screen size from 15" too. One can only dream.
Oh what the hell... maybe a hybrid running macOS and IOS on A chips? And on a 17" too?? <GRIN>
(I don't mean GPUs, as Apple already does that.)
In other words, when Apple went to the x86 architecture, was it via an *exclusive*
agreement with Intel for N years, like the old Motorola arrangement until they flirted with IBM?
I don't really expect an answer to this, unless it was snuck into a public addendum to a
10Q/K which I overlooked. Second sources are good, just sayin'.