Amazon announces premium touchscreen $230 Echo Show, allowing Alexa to 'show you things'

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  • Reply 81 of 153
    pepe779pepe779 Posts: 84member
    garfong said:

    Why can't existing iPhones and iPads sit in a stand like this and do the same darned things with siri? I can't see the need for a new device as much as new functionality for existing devices. Just add the functionality to Siri and I'll buy the stand and use it with one of my older, aging iPads.

    Because at Amazon they believe they have found an excellent way to capitalize on such silly ideas and are decided to exploit it as much as they possibly can (while the hype isn't over at least).
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 82 of 153
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,176member
    pepe779 said:
    Soli said:
    And Apple is the highest valued company in the world despite only being in the hands of such a small percentage of the people—a much smaller subset than the "people on this planet don't need / can't afford / don't know what a smartphone is" category. By your statement, Apple's iPhone is pointless since it doesn't address every person on the planet, or even the majority of its inhabitants? Do you not see how ridiculous your claim is?
    Sorry, no, I don't see how what I said about the Echo devices is related to what you're now saying about Apple's market value. All I'm saying is that I don't understand who the Echo device is for and what is its added value over all the existing tablets out there, nothing more, nothing less.
    You can't see how your silly straw man about the entire human race doesn't apply to another company? Honestly, I'm not surprised.
  • Reply 83 of 153
    garfonggarfong Posts: 4member
    Of course, what plagues these sort of devices (and always will) is the idea of Big Brother listening in through them.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 84 of 153
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,176member
    garfong said:

    Why can't existing iPhones and iPads sit in a stand like this and do the same darned things with siri? I can't see the need for a new device as much as new functionality for existing devices. Just add the functionality to Siri and I'll buy the stand and use it with one of my older, aging iPads.

    1) You don't see why Amazon should compete with Apple because Apple is already doing it? If that's the measure then why did Apple do it when there were already products on the market?

    2) This is different, and this works better than the HW Siri gets to access from your iPhone.
  • Reply 85 of 153
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,709member
    Anyone with parents or grandparents will immediately see the appeal of having multiples of these devices.
    I don't think so. Many people have smartphones and/computers. They can video chat with those items. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 86 of 153
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,176member
    garfong said:
    Of course, what plagues these sort of devices (and always will) is the idea of Big Brother listening in through them.
    Again, that's a stupid fear when you already have so many other devices that are hackable, and have for a very, very long time, but create a device with a wake word and you jump to the erroneous assumption that it's always recording and sending data to some nefarious agency.
  • Reply 87 of 153
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,176member
    jungmark said:
    Anyone with parents or grandparents will immediately see the appeal of having multiples of these devices.
    I don't think so. Many people have smartphones and/computers. They can video chat with those items. 
    1) And they were able to do that with PCs, which is why the iPad was doomed to fail since it wasn't a "real" computer, yet it outsells the Mac by over 2 to 1.

    2) Many owning something means there aren't many others that want something more like an appliance that is easier to use or wants additional options? I use Siri and Alexa on iDevices and Echos, respectively, but according to your statement there's no option for my use case since I could've just use Siri despite Alexa being better suited for a great many tasks.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 88 of 153
    pepe779pepe779 Posts: 84member
    Soli said:
    pepe779 said:
    tzeshan said:
    spacekid said:
    Hopefully for Apple's similar product, they allow facetime. I've been hoping for facetime with AppleTV so we can all sit around the TV and talk to family but that hasn't happened.
    Why can't you use iPad for FaceTime? 
    Yeah, I don't understand this way of thinking either. It's also not like whatever product Apple shows us will have a 30+" screen if the TV experience is what he's looking for, so yes, why not using an iPad or a MacBook or simply stream your FaceTime via Apple TV to your TV.
    Wow! You really can't see how those who are less tech savvy might want a simpler device than an iPad or MacBook for stationary FaceTime calls? This is after using your parents as prime examples of techtards, but you can't see user that wants to use video calls without all the complexity of the UI that other devices offer?

    I bet that if this was an Apple product that had all the same services you (and others) would have a very different tune.
    Wait, so you're telling me using FaceTime on an iPad is too complex and needs to be simplified? My parents (and many other older people) are not using this technology because they are simply not interested in it. I'm sure people at any age are perfectly capable of learning it, they just don't want it, they have different priorities in their lives. But why do you think this speaker device will make things any simpler for less tech savvy people? There are still too many things that can go wrong and somebody will have to be there to help them eventually. And no, I honestly don't understand why Apple is trying to invest in this area either, not sure what are their goal or ambitions with such product.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 89 of 153
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,176member
    pepe779 said:
    Soli said:
    pepe779 said:
    tzeshan said:
    spacekid said:
    Hopefully for Apple's similar product, they allow facetime. I've been hoping for facetime with AppleTV so we can all sit around the TV and talk to family but that hasn't happened.
    Why can't you use iPad for FaceTime? 
    Yeah, I don't understand this way of thinking either. It's also not like whatever product Apple shows us will have a 30+" screen if the TV experience is what he's looking for, so yes, why not using an iPad or a MacBook or simply stream your FaceTime via Apple TV to your TV.
    Wow! You really can't see how those who are less tech savvy might want a simpler device than an iPad or MacBook for stationary FaceTime calls? This is after using your parents as prime examples of techtards, but you can't see user that wants to use video calls without all the complexity of the UI that other devices offer?

    I bet that if this was an Apple product that had all the same services you (and others) would have a very different tune.
    Wait, so you're telling me using FaceTime on an iPad is too complex and needs to be simplified? My parents (and many other older people) are not using this technology because they are simply not interested in it. I'm sure people at any age are perfectly capable of learning it, they just don't want it, they have different priorities in their lives. But why do you think this speaker device will make things any simpler for less tech savvy people? There are still too many things that can go wrong and somebody will have to be there to help them eventually. And no, I honestly don't understand why Apple is trying to invest in this area either, not sure what are their goal or ambitions with such product.
    To be clear, you can only perceive of two types of users?
  • Reply 90 of 153
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,894member
    pepe779 said:
    Soli said:
    pepe779 said:
    Soli said:
    pepe779 said:
    pepe779 said:
    pepe779 said:
    So basically this is a niche device for the kitchen. As far as connecting with parents or kids can't you do that already with your phone or tablet using FaceTime, Skype etc.?
    I would like an Apple-version of this type of device for the kitchen counter.

    A counter fixture that has a Today View for the family's events, weather info, Siri, FaceTime, etc. My house would get a lot of use out of that. In some ways, more convenient than using someone's iPad, which is what happens today.

    IMO this product I have in mind from Apple is no way shape or form similar to the Echo or Home products' use case.
    You can get a used iPad for less than $200 and a new one for under #300 and nothing prevents you from fixing it to your kitchen counter. I don't know if it's just me but this Echo Show concept is just one epic and absurd rip off.
    I think they are really on the leading edge of creating the market for an in-home artificial intelligence companion/ assistant for millions of people.
    In what way exactly? People who use their smartphones/tablets on a daily basis have absolutely no need for such dedicated (and overpriced) device. People who avoid any technology beyond their flip phones are not going to use this in any shape or form either. Most of the people who actually bought the Echo speaker only did it because of the hype, but I don't know a single person still actually using it. You call it artificial intelligence companion for your home, I call it a feature that's been separated from your smartphone/tablet and is now being sold for the price of your whole smartphone/tablet. Truly wise move Amazon, I applaud you.
    There are about 76 million Baby Boomers, and their parents are additional to that. That audience, much of which is technology averse, is what this product is attempting to target.
    Okay now you made me laugh. So if this is the target audience, how will they even discover such product exists (unless their kids buy it for them as a present)? What % of these people will actually be using it? I know my parents wouldn't, flip phones are the most they will ever be willing to accept in their lives. So I'm pretty sure this is not the primary reason Bezos & co. are developing these gimmicks.
    1) You know most people procreate and that Mother's Day (US) is right around the corner, right? My older family menbers have had Macs, iPhones, iPads, Apple TVs, Netflix, Facebook, Words with Friends app. Nest thermostats, Echos, and countless other "technologies" because of what their kids, the younger enervation, or even some usage on TV on the radio as a review, ad, or general usage in a series has piqued their interest.

    2) But you're correct that Bezos' primary reason for anything isn't your parents. From your statement, even Amazon selling books online would be a stupid idea of your parents were the target market.
    To your second point - let's look at it from the highest possible level for a moment. World's population is roughly 7.5 billion people and it is estimated that in 2017 there are approximately 2.3 billion of them owning or using a smartphone. In other words, more than two thirds of the people on this planet don't need / can't afford / don't know what a smartphone is. Now go judge my parents again if you wish, all I'm saying is there are millions upon millions of people just like my parents and no, those people will simply never buy a smartphone, let alone an overpriced one trick pony called Echo.
    And Apple is the highest valued company in the world despite only being in the hands of such a small percentage of the people—a much smaller subset than the "people on this planet don't need / can't afford / don't know what a smartphone is" category. By your statement, Apple's iPhone is pointless since it doesn't address every person on the planet, or even the majority of its inhabitants? Do you not see how ridiculous your claim is?
    Sorry, no, I don't see how what I said about the Echo devices is related to what you're now saying about Apple's market value. All I'm saying is that I don't understand who the Echo device is for and what is its added value over all the existing tablets out there, nothing more, nothing less.
    Hey, we get that you have no interest in this product and don't understand how anyone could. I suspect millions of folks will disagree with you and buy one anyway. Not getting your order won't hurt Amazon too much. 
  • Reply 91 of 153
    pepe779pepe779 Posts: 84member
    Soli said:
    garfong said:

    Why can't existing iPhones and iPads sit in a stand like this and do the same darned things with siri? I can't see the need for a new device as much as new functionality for existing devices. Just add the functionality to Siri and I'll buy the stand and use it with one of my older, aging iPads.

    1) You don't see why Amazon should compete with Apple because Apple is already doing it? If that's the measure then why did Apple do it when there were already products on the market?

    2) This is different, and this works better than the HW Siri gets to access from your iPhone.
    1. How exactly is Amazon competing with Apple? What did Apple do that was already on the market?
    2. What's wrong with Apple's HW in your opinion and how is the Echo "better"?
  • Reply 92 of 153
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,176member
    gatorguy said:
    pepe779 said:
    Sorry, no, I don't see how what I said about the Echo devices is related to what you're now saying about Apple's market value. All I'm saying is that I don't understand who the Echo device is for and what is its added value over all the existing tablets out there, nothing more, nothing less.
    Hey, we get that you have no interest in this product and don't understand how anyone could. I suspect millions of folks will disagree with you and buy one anyway. Not getting your order won't hurt Amazon too much. 
    I imagine that most here have no interest in this product. I certainly don't, and I assume you don't, either, and yet we can see how a product that isn't for us can be for other people. The iPad doesn't fit my needs but I've never said it shouldn't exist because people fit into two categories: having no interest in technology or using a "real" PC.
  • Reply 93 of 153
    pepe779 said:
    So basically this is a niche device for the kitchen. As far as connecting with parents or kids can't you do that already with your phone or tablet using FaceTime, Skype etc.?
    I would like an Apple-version of this type of device for the kitchen counter.

    A counter fixture that has a Today View for the family's events, weather info, Siri, FaceTime, etc. My house would get a lot of use out of that. In some ways, more convenient than using someone's iPad, which is what happens today.

    IMO this product I have in mind from Apple is no way shape or form similar to the Echo or Home products' use case.
    You can get a used iPad for less than $200 and a new one for under #300 and nothing prevents you from fixing it to your kitchen counter. I don't know if it's just me but this Echo Show concept is just one epic and absurd rip off.

    An iPad would not be ideal for this, or I would have done it already. Here's why:

    1) Just the physicality alone is awkward. You're trying to fix a tablet to a kitchen-top appliance role, so you're making compromises every where. You need a case, or to build a case, which may be fun for a hobbiest, but I'd rather get something straight from Apple that is meant to stand on a counter. Sturdy, weighted, grippy, slightly movable. Maybe rotatable. And with a power cord location that is not sticking out of the side in the air.

    2) An iPad is overkill functionally. This product needs a core set of function, like CarPlay, that is appropriate for the situation and specifically designed for it. An iPad does not have a the kind of UI that would be perfect for this. But a custom made interface (like CarPlay) for iOS absolutely would be. I'm not saying CarPlay UI specifically...I'm saying a "KitchenPlay" UI, so to speak.

    So, a custom designed hardware + software solution would be worlds better than an iPad. It would also allow it to be priced appropriately, as it would contain the hardware it needs, and the software features it needs.

    It should have inductive charging too, and come with a charger that acts as a small stationary dock where you can slide the device back to for charging, and then slide it off anywhere on the counter for use.
    edited May 2017 Soli
  • Reply 94 of 153
    supadav03supadav03 Posts: 454member
    Hmmm...this is interesting. While I definitely see a market for this and think it will perform well, I can't  stop thinking "this has ZERO wow factor". 
  • Reply 95 of 153
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,430member
    This is a hilariously entertaining thread. Keep 'em coming!

    Here's my inflammatory contribution: Amazon can make this absolutely brilliant...by giving them away for free (with a paid or renewed Prime membership?) Bundle it with some of those free dash buttons. Amazon/ Alexa's new motto: "ABC."

    ready go
  • Reply 96 of 153
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,056member
    pepe779 said:
    avon b7 said:
    igorsky said:
    Some of the defenses of this thing are hilarious.  "Nobody is forcing you to buy it", "its design is personal taste", etc.  How come none of you Amazon apologists present the same defense for Apple products?  Just goes to show how much of a double-standard there is in tech.

    As far as the Echo Show goes...it couldn't be any more inconvenient or redundant when compared to the smartphone you have in your pocket right now.
    Why be so defensive? The points you take issue with are not at all hilarious. They are wholly  reasonable. The phone in your pocket won't always be in your pocket (it could be out of earshot) and isn't as well prepared to function as an Echo device anyway. When you leave your home your phone usually goes with you. That would potentially leave other users in the house without functionality (unless you live alone of course) and this device works out far cheaper than any iPhone.
    You've heard about the iPad though, right? You can get it for roughly the same price as the Echo Show + it has tons of other features too and you can leave it at home. Hey, sounds like a great deal, doesn't it? ;)
    Remember people are dissing Siri for not being good enough and the device in question absolutely depends on the quality of its mics. An iPad would not suffice. Not by a long shot.
  • Reply 97 of 153
    pepe779pepe779 Posts: 84member
    Soli said:
    pepe779 said:
    Soli said:
    pepe779 said:
    tzeshan said:
    spacekid said:
    Hopefully for Apple's similar product, they allow facetime. I've been hoping for facetime with AppleTV so we can all sit around the TV and talk to family but that hasn't happened.
    Why can't you use iPad for FaceTime? 
    Yeah, I don't understand this way of thinking either. It's also not like whatever product Apple shows us will have a 30+" screen if the TV experience is what he's looking for, so yes, why not using an iPad or a MacBook or simply stream your FaceTime via Apple TV to your TV.
    Wow! You really can't see how those who are less tech savvy might want a simpler device than an iPad or MacBook for stationary FaceTime calls? This is after using your parents as prime examples of techtards, but you can't see user that wants to use video calls without all the complexity of the UI that other devices offer?

    I bet that if this was an Apple product that had all the same services you (and others) would have a very different tune.
    Wait, so you're telling me using FaceTime on an iPad is too complex and needs to be simplified? My parents (and many other older people) are not using this technology because they are simply not interested in it. I'm sure people at any age are perfectly capable of learning it, they just don't want it, they have different priorities in their lives. But why do you think this speaker device will make things any simpler for less tech savvy people? There are still too many things that can go wrong and somebody will have to be there to help them eventually. And no, I honestly don't understand why Apple is trying to invest in this area either, not sure what are their goal or ambitions with such product.
    To be clear, you can only perceive of two types of users?
    From the product usage perspective, you're actually correct, we're talking about people who WILL (whoever those actually are) and people who WILL NOT buy/use these products :)
  • Reply 98 of 153
    pepe779 said:
    I still find it hard to believe how these companies are clearly out of truly innovative ideas and instead fool people with products that offer zero added value and - most of all - that people are actually buying it. I have said it before and will say it again - there's no reason whatsoever to buy and use this product instead of simply using an iPad (or any other tablet for that matter) with its voice assistant enabled and listening. I thought price may be at least one possible justification here, but now I see that's not the case either. But if anybody can think of at least one solid use case for these "smart speakers" (something your tablet or smarphone can't do or perhaps isn't suitable for), please, let me know, because I guess I'm just not getting it.
    Sure, you can make that argument that a smartphone can do all of this...so why do I want it?  Same can be said for Apple Watch, or iPad 

    For this Echo thing, Two reasons I think of 
    1.  It's kind of nice to have a hands-free voice controlled device in the kitchen (to play music, make shopping lists, etc and with this it might be nice to view recipes or videos for cooking, or entertainment)  
    2.  It's nice to be able to get extra value from content available with your Amazon Prime account - Music, Video, Hands Free Shopping - and from a device that doesn't cost a lot.
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 99 of 153
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,176member
    pepe779 said:
    Soli said:
    garfong said:

    Why can't existing iPhones and iPads sit in a stand like this and do the same darned things with siri? I can't see the need for a new device as much as new functionality for existing devices. Just add the functionality to Siri and I'll buy the stand and use it with one of my older, aging iPads.

    1) You don't see why Amazon should compete with Apple because Apple is already doing it? If that's the measure then why did Apple do it when there were already products on the market?

    2) This is different, and this works better than the HW Siri gets to access from your iPhone.
    1. How exactly is Amazon competing with Apple? What did Apple do that was already on the market?
    2. What's wrong with Apple's HW in your opinion and how is the Echo "better"?
    1) Pretty much everything Apple has ever done "has already existed in some shape or form."

    2) If you don't yet understand how the microphones and speakers can make a difference in a digital personal assistance designed for microphones and speakers as the primary UI, then I don't know what I can tell you to make you understand the multiple far-field microphones and a large speaker system in a large tower make for a better experience than what is found in an already tiny iPhone that dedicates very little space to each, and I'm sure you'll tell me that Siri's mics are just as good as picking up the wake word from across a room with music blaring. :rolleyes: 
    edited May 2017
  • Reply 100 of 153
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,532member
    A lot of frickin' naysayers here. No one's holding a gun to anyone's head to buy this. I applaud Amazon for doing this, and pushing the envelope. This is the type of CE device that Apple should have gotten in front of, ages ago. Maybe Apple will do something similar some day (let's hope so), but it seems like a lot of 'sour grapes' to bitch and moan about someone trying to do it now.

    I can see why lots of people will get a lot out of it. That said, I am not wildly enthusiastic about its aesthetics, so it's not for me.
    Like many CE devices, I am sure that it will appeal to millions of people (though perhaps not "multiple 10s of millions).  I have no issue against anyone that wants to purchase it.  Many will enjoy it.

    That doesn't make it above criticism.  Given that this is an Apple rumour forum site, it is fair to take criticism that Apple receives and consider this new product in that light.  Some of that pertains to design, functionality, market, etc.  Apple gets no free passes (far from it...), and Amazon is a big-boy company that should be able to take it.

    As to the contention that Apple should have done this "ages ago", I don't agree.  Apple has publicly stated they take the approach of saying "no" to many ideas, and only focusing on the select few.  Apple is already selling (and has for a few years), over 200 million iPhones and iPads per year, and each one can be used for some aspects of voice assistants, playing music (natively or to speakers), voice & video calls.  Amazon is different, not having much in this area, so they could see a reason for such a device, all of which blends into their objective to drive more engagement with their retail service.

    While Amazon may have sold 10-11M Echo units, Apple has sold close to 25M Apple Watches, at higher price and believed higher margin.  Similarly AirPods are looking like a hit.  The wearables space (seems at least) holds more promise of the larger market.  So I think Apple has made the right "bet" from their perspective.  

    Will Apple bring something like this to market - meaning a speaker with voice assistant - maybe.  IMO, it only makes sense in conjunction with Apple Music, or as part of HomeKit strategy.  It is much less important than wearables IMO.
    StrangeDays
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