Regarding this thread, and the other one about Apple assisting with terror investigations. They are open on the main page as experiments, to see if you can be cool to each other after the time-out last week.
Keep on topic, no ad hominem, and be excellent to each other.
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
And the TV weatherman can’t even predict when the next thunderstorm will occur and explains that the “models” were off a bit. Then there’s dark matter and dark energy which science thinks is something but doesn’t have a clue what they are or how to detect them. The math told them they exist?
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
Science isn't always right. They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment.
Oh good point.... if we don’t have EXACT answers- f the whole thing. Throw the whole world in the crapper.
I admire the cut of your jib sir!
When the science is nebulous it’s time to be skeptical and cautious. It’s simply amazing how this topic became political right from the beginning with the left latching on to it as a weapon to hammer capitalism with and the right fearing economic stagnation which has already happened.
This has less to do with the environment and more to do with Bloomberg signaling he's running in 2020. He's just another autocratic progressive who believes government can and should control every aspect of our lives and that individual freedoms are worth less than imposed consensus.
This is on topic because a progressive environmental agenda is all about politics and control of behavior.
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
Science isn't always right. They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment.
Oh good point.... if we don’t have EXACT answers- f the whole thing. Throw the whole world in the crapper.
I admire the cut of your jib sir!
On the contrary, your view would be we think we understand it so let's bankrupt our country. Then China just waits and takes over even more.
Lol, I guess time will tell... if, in a few years, literally all the other countries that stayed in the accord are taken over by China- I'll owe you an apology for not believing that coming together to agree to not destroy our planet was actually a nefarious Chinese plot for world domination!!!!!
If China achieve 'world domination' it will be because they take the lead in developing the expertise and technologies required to make the most of the low-carbon economy that the world is transitioning to, while the US (thanks to Trump) buries its head in the sand and attempts to cling on to the fossil fuel era of the 1900s in which it prospered. Hopefully companies like Apple et. al. should keep the country out of the dark ages.
PS Apologies if this is a duplicate, my first post never seemed to materialise.
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
Science isn't always right. They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment.
Oh good point.... if we don’t have EXACT answers- f the whole thing. Throw the whole world in the crapper.
I admire the cut of your jib sir!
On the contrary, your view would be we think we understand it so let's bankrupt our country. Then China just waits and takes over even more.
Lol, I guess time will tell... if, in a few years, literally all the other countries that stayed in the accord are taken over by China- I'll owe you an apology for not believing that coming together to agree to not destroy our planet was actually a nefarious Chinese plot for world domination!!!!!
If China achieve 'world domination' it will be because they take the lead in developing the expertise and technologies required to make the most of the low-carbon economy that the world is transitioning to, while the US (thanks to Trump) buries its head in the sand and attempts to cling on to the fossil fuel era of the 1900s in which it prospered. Hopefully companies like Apple et. al. should keep the country out of the dark ages.
PS Apologies if this is a duplicate, my first post never seemed to materialise.
Incorrect. Free market solutions mean customers decide with their purses and wallets what kind of world they want to live in. Less control and imposition from Washington will mean people must be more individually AND VOLUNTARILY "collectively" responsible. In principle, businesses and organizations banding together to voluntarily support environmental goals is commendable, but this is a Mike Bloomberg thing and no human being does anything without self-interest being served first, especially a politician!
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
Science isn't always right. They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment.
Oh good point.... if we don’t have EXACT answers- f the whole thing. Throw the whole world in the crapper.
I admire the cut of your jib sir!
On the contrary, your view would be we think we understand it so let's bankrupt our country. Then China just waits and takes over even more.
Lol, I guess time will tell... if, in a few years, literally all the other countries that stayed in the accord are taken over by China- I'll owe you an apology for not believing that coming together to agree to not destroy our planet was actually a nefarious Chinese plot for world domination!!!!!
If China achieve 'world domination' it will be because they take the lead in developing the expertise and technologies required to make the most of the low-carbon economy that the world is transitioning to, while the US (thanks to Trump) buries its head in the sand and attempts to cling on to the fossil fuel era of the 1900s in which it prospered. Hopefully companies like Apple et. al. should keep the country out of the dark ages.
PS Apologies if this is a duplicate, my first post never seemed to materialise.
Incorrect. Free market solutions mean customers decide with their purses and wallets what kind of world they want to live in. Less control and imposition from Washington will mean people must be more individually AND VOLUNTARILY "collectively" responsible. In principle, businesses and organizations banding together to voluntarily support environmental goals is commendable, but this is a Mike Bloomberg thing and no living human being does anything without self-interest being served first.
Don't you think that people are naturally selfish, though? For example, here in the UK diesel car sales are still outstripping petrol models, despite all the evidence that they are more harmful to the environment, because the cost of the fuel is cheaper per mile. I'm all for free markets, but sometimes I believe intervention is required at a government level - whether it is about changing mindsets or whether it is enforcing regulations.
The Paris accord is nothing more than words and little action. There is no enforcement of the agreement and you know countries are going to cheat. It's a money pit for the USA. Wealthy nations agreed to pay $100 billion a year to poorer nations and you know which country will be paying the most. The USA of course. The bottom line is the Paris accord does nothing for the environment. People need to realize globalist politics aren't going to solve environmental problems.
Ya, people don't seem to get this. Didn't actually read it. Just assume it's all Good and actually does something. All it really does is steal money from the rich countries and gives it to the poor countries. It's a global spread the wealth. With the U.S. having the biggest bill. it's really does NOTHING for the environment. By the way, We're a BROKE country. We are almost 20 TRILLION dollars in debt now. Obama put us more in debt then every past president COMBINED!!! Now we're suppose to just start giving out countries even more money?
So spend a crap load of money and get ZERO results out of it. None of it doing anything for actual Climate Change. Trump did the right thing. For those of you in states that say they're going to do it., Great, Look forward to much higher Electric Bills, gas costs, food costs and the list goes on. The end result, No effect on Climate Change. For one thing the Climate is always changing and will forever always be changing.
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
And the TV weatherman can’t even predict when the next thunderstorm will occur and explains that the “models” were off a bit. Then there’s dark matter and dark energy which science thinks is something but doesn’t have a clue what they are or how to detect them. The math told them they exist?
Wow. One could say the same about stock markets, no? You can't predict stocks from one day to the next, but in the long run, one can quite reasonably predict that stocks go up (relative to, say, bonds) and by how much. However, as one should expect, that prediction will certainly have some noise around it, that's because all predictions not only rely on a model of some kind (implicitly or explicitly), but the model's inputs necessarily consist of estimations of key parameters based statistical assessments of past behaviors.
It's no different with climate models and predictions. They're in fact prone to lower standard errors than market predictions since market behaviors rely on human psychology.
As an aside, aren't you essentially suggesting that Cook, Tillerson, Mattis, Cohn, Iger, Immelt, CEOs of fossil fuel companies, Baker/Schultz, mainstream republican economists (e.g., Mankiw, Feldstein, Hubbard) etc etc (I could mention a hundred similar names) are a bunch of fools?
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
Science isn't always right. They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment.
Oh good point.... if we don’t have EXACT answers- f the whole thing. Throw the whole world in the crapper.
I admire the cut of your jib sir!
On the contrary, your view would be we think we understand it so let's bankrupt our country. Then China just waits and takes over even more.
Lol, I guess time will tell... if, in a few years, literally all the other countries that stayed in the accord are taken over by China- I'll owe you an apology for not believing that coming together to agree to not destroy our planet was actually a nefarious Chinese plot for world domination!!!!!
If China achieve 'world domination' it will be because they take the lead in developing the expertise and technologies required to make the most of the low-carbon economy that the world is transitioning to, while the US (thanks to Trump) buries its head in the sand and attempts to cling on to the fossil fuel era of the 1900s in which it prospered. Hopefully companies like Apple et. al. should keep the country out of the dark ages.
PS Apologies if this is a duplicate, my first post never seemed to materialise.
Incorrect. Free market solutions mean customers decide with their purses and wallets what kind of world they want to live in. Less control and imposition from Washington will mean people must be more individually AND VOLUNTARILY "collectively" responsible. In principle, businesses and organizations banding together to voluntarily support environmental goals is commendable, but this is a Mike Bloomberg thing and no living human being does anything without self-interest being served first.
Don't you think that people are naturally selfish, though? For example, here in the UK diesel car sales are still outstripping petrol models, despite all the evidence that they are more harmful to the environment, because the cost of the fuel is cheaper per mile. I'm all for free markets, but sometimes I believe intervention is required at a government level - whether it is about changing mindsets or whether it is enforcing regulations.
People are "self-interested" and the smarter ones employ "enlightened self-interest", which simply means one can serve their own interests by serving others (voluntarily).
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
Science isn't always right. They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment.
Oh good point.... if we don’t have EXACT answers- f the whole thing. Throw the whole world in the crapper.
I admire the cut of your jib sir!
When the science is nebulous it’s time to be skeptical and cautious. It’s simply amazing how this topic became political right from the beginning with the left latching on to it as a weapon to hammer capitalism with and the right fearing economic stagnation which has already happened.
What is "nebulous" about the science? Care to elaborate, instead of just asserting?
FYI, the science is superbly clear, requiring the understanding of no more than high-school level physics, e.g., something about SWR, LWR and how they behave when they pass through an object like glass. Ever wondered why the inside of a car on a sunny day is significantly hotter than the outside? That's basically the science.
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
Science isn't always right. They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment.
Oh good point.... if we don’t have EXACT answers- f the whole thing. Throw the whole world in the crapper.
I admire the cut of your jib sir!
On the contrary, your view would be we think we understand it so let's bankrupt our country. Then China just waits and takes over even more.
Lol, I guess time will tell... if, in a few years, literally all the other countries that stayed in the accord are taken over by China- I'll owe you an apology for not believing that coming together to agree to not destroy our planet was actually a nefarious Chinese plot for world domination!!!!!
If China achieve 'world domination' it will be because they take the lead in developing the expertise and technologies required to make the most of the low-carbon economy that the world is transitioning to, while the US (thanks to Trump) buries its head in the sand and attempts to cling on to the fossil fuel era of the 1900s in which it prospered. Hopefully companies like Apple et. al. should keep the country out of the dark ages.
PS Apologies if this is a duplicate, my first post never seemed to materialise.
Incorrect. Free market solutions mean customers decide with their purses and wallets what kind of world they want to live in. Less control and imposition from Washington will mean people must be more individually AND VOLUNTARILY "collectively" responsible. In principle, businesses and organizations banding together to voluntarily support environmental goals is commendable, but this is a Mike Bloomberg thing and no human being does anything without self-interest being served first, especially a politician!
Incorrect. "Free market solutions" are prone to market failure when there are externalities. Econ 101. Look it up.
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
Science isn't always right. They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment.
Oh good point.... if we don’t have EXACT answers- f the whole thing. Throw the whole world in the crapper.
I admire the cut of your jib sir!
On the contrary, your view would be we think we understand it so let's bankrupt our country. Then China just waits and takes over even more.
Lol, I guess time will tell... if, in a few years, literally all the other countries that stayed in the accord are taken over by China- I'll owe you an apology for not believing that coming together to agree to not destroy our planet was actually a nefarious Chinese plot for world domination!!!!!
If China achieve 'world domination' it will be because they take the lead in developing the expertise and technologies required to make the most of the low-carbon economy that the world is transitioning to, while the US (thanks to Trump) buries its head in the sand and attempts to cling on to the fossil fuel era of the 1900s in which it prospered. Hopefully companies like Apple et. al. should keep the country out of the dark ages.
PS Apologies if this is a duplicate, my first post never seemed to materialise.
Incorrect. Free market solutions mean customers decide with their purses and wallets what kind of world they want to live in. Less control and imposition from Washington will mean people must be more individually AND VOLUNTARILY "collectively" responsible. In principle, businesses and organizations banding together to voluntarily support environmental goals is commendable, but this is a Mike Bloomberg thing and no human being does anything without self-interest being served first, especially a politician!
Incorrect. "Free market solutions" are prone to market failure when there are externalities. Econ 101. Look it up.
We have massive market failures, including bubbles, price distortions, currency devaluation, improper valuation of labor, taxpayer funded bailouts, etc. and that is ALL directly attributable to politics and imposed regulations NOT free market principles.
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
Science isn't always right. They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment.
Oh good point.... if we don’t have EXACT answers- f the whole thing. Throw the whole world in the crapper.
I admire the cut of your jib sir!
On the contrary, your view would be we think we understand it so let's bankrupt our country. Then China just waits and takes over even more.
Lol, I guess time will tell... if, in a few years, literally all the other countries that stayed in the accord are taken over by China- I'll owe you an apology for not believing that coming together to agree to not destroy our planet was actually a nefarious Chinese plot for world domination!!!!!
If China achieve 'world domination' it will be because they take the lead in developing the expertise and technologies required to make the most of the low-carbon economy that the world is transitioning to, while the US (thanks to Trump) buries its head in the sand and attempts to cling on to the fossil fuel era of the 1900s in which it prospered. Hopefully companies like Apple et. al. should keep the country out of the dark ages.
PS Apologies if this is a duplicate, my first post never seemed to materialise.
Incorrect. Free market solutions mean customers decide with their purses and wallets what kind of world they want to live in. Less control and imposition from Washington will mean people must be more individually AND VOLUNTARILY "collectively" responsible. In principle, businesses and organizations banding together to voluntarily support environmental goals is commendable, but this is a Mike Bloomberg thing and no human being does anything without self-interest being served first, especially a politician!
Incorrect. "Free market solutions" are prone to market failure when there are externalities. Econ 101. Look it up.
We have massive market failures, including bubbles, price distortions, currency devaluation, improper valuation of labor, taxpayer funded bailouts, etc. and that is ALL directly attributable to politics and imposed regulations NOT free market principles.
What does the fact that markets can fail because of politics have to do with the fact that markets can fail because of externalities (and public goods)? Perhaps you're not understanding the point about externalities in this context? Or the "commons problem"?
Ever wondered why the inside of a car on a sunny day is significantly hotter than the outside? That's basically the science.
Yeah, it’s why Venus is hotter than Mercury, despite being further from the Sun. This topic is also why Mars is colder than Venus, despite having the exact same atmospheric composition.
CO2 is doing nothing to the temperature of Earth and hasn’t since ~120 PPM.
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
Science isn't always right. They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment.
You're pretty clueless on that front. Go ahead, ask me what you'd like to know about which specific type of human-caused emissions, from which country: I'd be happy to point you to resources where you can educate yourself.
I'm not clueless at all. My whole thing is climate change has been happening for millions of years. The polar ice caps and glaciers are going to melt regardless of what humans do. The've melted off before and the ocean rose and the same thing is going to happen again. I totally agree that we as a world need to cut back on CO2 emissions but like I said previously, the Paris accord isn't the answer. It does nothing for the environment.
Paris Accord just a PC public message that they're doing something about it but it doesn't fully enforce nor set standards. Apple claims they are green but they push production to China and they certainly aren't green.
Ever wondered why the inside of a car on a sunny day is significantly hotter than the outside? That's basically the science.
Yeah, it’s why Venus is hotter than Mercury, despite being further from the Sun. This topic is also why Mars is colder than Venus, despite having the exact same atmospheric composition.
CO2 is doing nothing to the temperature of Earth and hasn’t since ~120 PPM.
Do you see that you're suggesting basically saying that atmospheric composition (which is not the same between Venus and Mars, and you can look that up if you wish) dominates all else with regard to surface temperatures!? Are you serious?
As to why Venus is hotter, do you know the gas that counts for 96% of the atmosphere of Venus? Again, those of you who actually care about learning something (and possibly advancing your thinking) can easily look it up.
I have no time to respond to your second para, except to say that every known, tested, retested, vetted bit of data contradicts that.
Excellent. Just because Donnie doesn't understand science, doesn't mean we roll back progress.
Science isn't always right. They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment.
You're pretty clueless on that front. Go ahead, ask me what you'd like to know about which specific type of human-caused emissions, from which country: I'd be happy to point you to resources where you can educate yourself.
I'm not clueless at all. My whole thing is climate change has been happening for millions of years. The polar ice caps and glaciers are going to melt regardless of what humans do. The've melted off before and the ocean rose and the same thing is going to happen again. I totally agree that we as a world need to cut back on CO2 emissions but like I said previously, the Paris accord isn't the answer. It does nothing for the environment.
Your specific quote -- to which I was responding, and which you may wish to re-read since you yourself posted it -- was "They still can't figure out how much carbon emissions are from humans vs the environment. "
Do you see that you’re suggesting basically saying that atmospheric composition dominates all else with regard to surface temperatures!?
Nope, the Sun dominates all. That’d be why I said the exact opposite of what you’re claiming I said.
As to why Venus is hotter, do you know the gas that counts for 96% of the atmosphere of Venus?
Yes, it’s the same gas that accounts for 96% of the atmosphere of Mars. Please try to keep up. I’ve already said this shit. It’s hotter because it’s closer to the Sun, and it’s hotter than Mercury despite being further from the Sun because of its atmosphere. If Earth was as close to the Sun as Venus, it would not be as hot. If Earth was as far from the Sun as Mars, it would not be as cold. Venus is hotter because its atmospheric pressure is 90x that of Earth. Mars is colder because its atmospheric pressure is 90x less than Earth’s.
every known, tested, retested, vetted bit of data contradicts that.
You were already proven wrong many weeks ago. Just shut up about things you clearly don’t understand.
Comments
Keep on topic, no ad hominem, and be excellent to each other.
This is on topic because a progressive environmental agenda is all about politics and control of behavior.
PS Apologies if this is a duplicate, my first post never seemed to materialise.
It's no different with climate models and predictions. They're in fact prone to lower standard errors than market predictions since market behaviors rely on human psychology.
As an aside, aren't you essentially suggesting that Cook, Tillerson, Mattis, Cohn, Iger, Immelt, CEOs of fossil fuel companies, Baker/Schultz, mainstream republican economists (e.g., Mankiw, Feldstein, Hubbard) etc etc (I could mention a hundred similar names) are a bunch of fools?
What is "nebulous" about the science? Care to elaborate, instead of just asserting?
FYI, the science is superbly clear, requiring the understanding of no more than high-school level physics, e.g., something about SWR, LWR and how they behave when they pass through an object like glass. Ever wondered why the inside of a car on a sunny day is significantly hotter than the outside? That's basically the science.
Incorrect. "Free market solutions" are prone to market failure when there are externalities. Econ 101. Look it up.
Happy to explain further if needed.
CO2 is doing nothing to the temperature of Earth and hasn’t since ~120 PPM.
As to why Venus is hotter, do you know the gas that counts for 96% of the atmosphere of Venus? Again, those of you who actually care about learning something (and possibly advancing your thinking) can easily look it up.
I have no time to respond to your second para, except to say that every known, tested, retested, vetted bit of data contradicts that.
Don't change the subject.
Yes, it’s the same gas that accounts for 96% of the atmosphere of Mars. Please try to keep up. I’ve already said this shit. It’s hotter because it’s closer to the Sun, and it’s hotter than Mercury despite being further from the Sun because of its atmosphere. If Earth was as close to the Sun as Venus, it would not be as hot. If Earth was as far from the Sun as Mars, it would not be as cold. Venus is hotter because its atmospheric pressure is 90x that of Earth. Mars is colder because its atmospheric pressure is 90x less than Earth’s.
You were already proven wrong many weeks ago. Just shut up about things you clearly don’t understand.