Go buy PC. Everything is upgradable. It's not about Apple not wanting you to upgrade, but an avarage Joe with internet instructions. Apple makes it hard for average folks for a reason: discourages the diy!
Apple needs to remember that despite always wanting to sell a computer for the “average joe”, WE are the ones who got them where they are.
Apple should allow to open a door on back to upgrade RAM and SSD. That is customer care.
They don't want you doing that. They'd rather have you pay Apple prices and upgrade at time of purchase.
So then why is there a panel on the 27" model? Oh yeah because it's about engineering, not paranoid delusions about Phil Schiller twirling his mustache and laughing maniacally at getting to screw 21" customers.
21" board's designed different from 27". I'd rather spend $200 to go 16GB from Apple than $300 with shitloads of labors and risks to do it myself. I wonder after 32GB RAM upgrade on 21" and later there's some failures with your iMac, if Apple still honors the warranty when they see 32GB RAM in there. They may say...nah, you opened the device...screw you!
fallenjt said: I can understand users spend $5000 on a machine should be able to add RAM to make it last 10 years or so, but other than RAM? Nah!
I think upgradable storage is the component that would most benefit users.
The cost per GB of storage drops over time and capacities increase, so after a couple years a bigger drive becomes a good value proposition as the original drive fills up.
It's less important with a desktop computer because one may simply plug in an external device to increase capacity, but that really drags down the user experience with a laptop. Laptops are also where the hit to the wallet is greatest: maxing out the storage on this 15" Touchbar cost $1500! That's a bigger hit than most people can swallow. But in a couple years, when a smaller drive will be starting to fill up, that same capacity will likely be much less expensive. Being able to upgrade it then would be good for the user. It's also likely that capacities will increase, so storage hogs like me would be able to add more without having to carry painfully slow, cumbersome externals.
Apple is #1 in customer service for many reasons one of them being stubborn on user installed upgrades...majority of consumers do not want to upgrade these machines themselves. Makes me wonder if any of the comments urging Apple to allow upgrading own a business as some of you don't seem to have an abundance of business logic.
Apple is #1 in customer service for many reasons one of them being stubborn on user installed upgrades...majority of consumers do not want to upgrade these machines themselves. Makes me wonder if any of the comments urging Apple to allow upgrading own a business as some of you don't seem to have an abundance of business logic.
There are valid arguments for blocking DIY upgrades and repairs. But when those same upgrades cannot even be done by Apple itself, that's a different story. Then you're getting into planned obsolescence.
Go buy PC. Everything is upgradable. It's not about Apple not wanting you to upgrade, but an avarage Joe with internet instructions. Apple makes it hard for average folks for a reason: discourages the diy!
Apple needs to remember that despite always wanting to sell a computer for the “average joe”, WE are the ones who got them where they are.
Who are you to speak for "WE"?
There are vocal asshats that criticize Apple at every turn while claiming to have been part of those that bought Macs back when they were "beleaguered". Not necessarily directed at you but I'm really tired of these folks who probably never bought a PowerMac ever claiming to have "saved" Apple so now Apple owes them a inexpensive xMac that hasn't existed since the 2003 PowerMac G4.
I heard someone who said they worked at an Apple Store say that since Apple has begun offering fewer ways to open up the case, people coming in for hardware failures has gone down proportionally. Which is frustrating. Personally I have damaged my 13 inch MacBook Pro accidentally, I was gluing back on one of the black footies, and a drop of glue went in through the little circular opening under the footy (not sure why it's even there) and somehow managed to snake it's way halfway down to the jumper for the sensor that detects when the lid is closed.
I didn't realize this until months later when I had an HDD failure, and I had to open up the computer, and the jumper came off glued to the bottom of the case. It's not a huge deal I just hit sleep before closing it. It's actually kind of fun to be able to leave it closed but still hosting torrents. At the same time though, that sort of thing was already not warrantable. Though I suspect there have been a number of instances of family friends offering to trick out their friends macs and then screwing things up.
Personally though I think there should be some sort of RAM door on the iMac Pro, or even just have the whole back unscrew and slide down the back of the stand, and be able to be put back. It is entirely reasonable on a professional device that a device owner might want to install more RAM, SSD capacity, or something else, at a later date. Also they should really abandon the fusion drive on the iMac Pro, just give it an SSD and allow users who want more storage to buy external drives.
Back in the day, when the iMac was released, I witnessed this first hand on more than one occasion. We'd have people come in with the 8500, 8600, and beige G3 that they tried something insane with, and broke it, and say that "it just happened" or some other nonsense. Very few were brave enough to take apart their iMac, at least in the early days.
Had a guy get a second two-drive tray for his G4 that he scavenged from his Blue and White, and put it next to the existing one. Only problem with that, is a double-height tray there with a drive installed shorts out motherboard components to the case. Demanded it be fixed under warranty.
fallenjt said: I can understand users spend $5000 on a machine should be able to add RAM to make it last 10 years or so, but other than RAM? Nah!
I think upgradable storage is the component that would most benefit users.
The cost per GB of storage drops over time and capacities increase, so after a couple years a bigger drive becomes a good value proposition as the original drive fills up.
It's less important with a desktop computer because one may simply plug in an external device to increase capacity, but that really drags down the user experience with a laptop. Laptops are also where the hit to the wallet is greatest: maxing out the storage on this 15" Touchbar cost $1500! That's a bigger hit than most people can swallow. But in a couple years, when a smaller drive will be starting to fill up, that same capacity will likely be much less expensive. Being able to upgrade it then would be good for the user. It's also likely that capacities will increase, so storage hogs like me would be able to add more without having to carry painfully slow, cumbersome externals.
You can either buy a maxed out new machine every 10 years or buy a mid-tier one every 3 years as AppleCare runs out and take a $700 depreciation...ie spend about $250 a year for your computing needs.
Obviously Apple prefers you do the latter but either works.
But it's bullshit to claim that you'll see a difference in "a couple years". My 2013 MBP came stock with 512GB SSD (lowest model with discrete GPU) and I have over 250GB of science data and 50GB of ProRes I should have moved to an external drive but have been lazy. And my externals are not "painfully slow". Some of the sleds are from Atomos and used within the recorder. These are slightly thicker than my iPhone 7 but smaller in size.
And no "storage hog" will be able to live within 2TB anyway so externals are always required.
Does opening a brand new iMac affect Apple's warranty? What happens when/if the DIYer messes something up while adding the memory? Do they expect Apple to cover the repair under warranty?
62 steps before you get to the RAM, including removing antenna cables, which I've found to be the most difficult part to reconnect on iPhones. Push a bit wrong and you've bent the connect and you're SOOL. Once you've gone this far, you might as well break out your pneumatic grinder and cut out your own access door for future changes. It's unfortunate the HDD is attached from the screen side so cutting another access panel won't work. (last two sentences sarcasm)
It appears iFixit is using Hynix RAM.
Yes, it voids the warranty. Also, gaining access to critical components inside the iMac is not for novices. I've watched a number of videos on repairing iMacs and they are very involved.
But it's bullshit to claim that you'll see a difference in "a couple years". My 2013 MBP came stock with 512GB SSD (lowest model with discrete GPU) and I have over 250GB of science data and 50GB of ProRes I should have moved to an external drive but have been lazy.
I usually find my views sync fairly closely to yours, but not in this case. I also take exception to your calling my observation "bullshit." It obviously isn't. The price of that 512GB SSD you describe dropped by HALF in "a couple years." The maximum capacity available in a Mac doubled in a couple years, then again a couple years later. Or maybe "a few years." Certainly within the normal ownership window of a MacBook Pro.
Your point that you have files you could offload to another device doesn't mean there wouldn't be value in user-upgradable storage. Not everyone has that luxury, either. I carry around TBs worth of material that I may not need on any given day, but must have on hand just in case I do.
And my externals are not "painfully slow". Some of the sleds are from Atomos and used within the recorder. These are slightly thicker than my iPhone 7 but smaller in size.
I guess if I sold my car and a kidney I could have lots of fast storage in a manageable size, but 4TB of external isn't ever going to be small, convenient and affordable. Maybe any combination of two, but not all three. At this point the choices are to carry multiple devices or live with one slow one.
And my externals are not "painfully slow". Some of the sleds are from Atomos and used within the recorder. These are slightly thicker than my iPhone 7 but smaller in size.
I guess if I sold my car and a kidney I could have lots of fast storage in a manageable size, but 4TB of external isn't ever going to be small, convenient and affordable. Maybe any combination of two, but not all three. At this point the choices are to carry multiple devices or live with one slow one.
$218 Amazon for solid R/W performance. This drive has been around since 2014. Small, convenient, affordable and fast...but RAID 0.
The more recent single drive is slower but only $118 from Amazon. I have a couple of these for both backup and primary data storage (that is backed up of course). 126MB/s write 126MB/s read.
On a budget you can use a 4TB HDD and a 512GB SSD and either create a Fusion Drive or use them as two drives and manage usage manually. $120 for HDD, $150 SSD, $80 enclosure = $350 for 4.5TB of portable storage that is fast, affordable and convenient in a single external enclosure (5.1 x 6.5 x 1.1 in). The smaller enclosure (3.5 x 5.51 x 1.4 in) will only do 9mm drives so will not be able to fit the 4TB HDD but could do 2TB HDD + 512GB SSD for 2.5TB. I'd probably opt for the 2TB FireCuda for $90 (http://a.co/brYkexg) and see how fast it would be as a Fusion drive.
$218 Amazon for solid R/W performance. This drive has been around since 2014. Small, convenient, affordable and fast...but RAID 0.
I don't know why but I've never seen that unit. I don't know if I've overlooked it or f it's not readily available here (Canada), but I will now keep an eye out for it. Thanks for the tip!
I *tried* to buy one of those! Despite Mediasonic being a Canadian company, that particular model is hard to find here. NCIX had never heard of it, it's not on Newegg's Canadian site, and I couldn't find it on Amazon.ca. It's been a while since I looked so maybe it's on Amazon.ca now.
I've seen that one, but somehow I got the impression that Oyen has a bad reputation for reliability. I don't remember why I think that. Do you have any experience with them?
and then put in whatever 2 drives you want. 4TB RAID 0 SSD (2xCrucial MX300 2TB) will run you about $1200 and be blazing fast.
You are more affluent than me. $1200 for a sidecar is more than I can swing. I get your point, though.
The pointers you've provided are helpful and welcome! Thanks!
$218 Amazon for solid R/W performance. This drive has been around since 2014. Small, convenient, affordable and fast...but RAID 0.
I don't know why but I've never seen that unit. I don't know if I've overlooked it or f it's not readily available here (Canada), but I will now keep an eye out for it. Thanks for the tip!
I *tried* to buy one of those! Despite Mediasonic being a Canadian company, that particular model is hard to find here. NCIX had never heard of it, it's not on Newegg's Canadian site, and I couldn't find it on Amazon.ca. It's been a while since I looked so maybe it's on Amazon.ca now.
I've seen that one, but somehow I got the impression that Oyen has a bad reputation for reliability. I don't remember why I think that. Do you have any experience with them?
and then put in whatever 2 drives you want. 4TB RAID 0 SSD (2xCrucial MX300 2TB) will run you about $1200 and be blazing fast.
You are more affluent than me. $1200 for a sidecar is more than I can swing. I get your point, though.
The pointers you've provided are helpful and welcome! Thanks!
I have an oyen FW800 enclosure that worked fine. I stopped using it when TB came out so it's just sitting around somewhere. It was a real trooper for years for FW.
YMMV. It all depends on the chips they use for whatever generation and it's mid-tier quality control. The name brands have has equally poor periods of failures and I have a couple semi expensive OWC enclosures that sucked.
As as long as you can manage the risks of RAID-0 these smallish (not tiny but not huge) enclosures can be quite speedy work disks. As long as you back up religiously it should be fine.
Personally I use a SSD in a slim enclosure and leave the 4TB in the bag for those rare occasions I need something from the data pile. If I were editing 4K regularly I'd probably do the RAID-0 enclosure with 2 512GB SSDs but my workflow is still largely 1080 since I'm not a pro videographer.
Comments
I wonder after 32GB RAM upgrade on 21" and later there's some failures with your iMac, if Apple still honors the warranty when they see 32GB RAM in there. They may say...nah, you opened the device...screw you!
The cost per GB of storage drops over time and capacities increase, so after a couple years a bigger drive becomes a good value proposition as the original drive fills up.
It's less important with a desktop computer because one may simply plug in an external device to increase capacity, but that really drags down the user experience with a laptop. Laptops are also where the hit to the wallet is greatest: maxing out the storage on this 15" Touchbar cost $1500! That's a bigger hit than most people can swallow. But in a couple years, when a smaller drive will be starting to fill up, that same capacity will likely be much less expensive. Being able to upgrade it then would be good for the user. It's also likely that capacities will increase, so storage hogs like me would be able to add more without having to carry painfully slow, cumbersome externals.
There are vocal asshats that criticize Apple at every turn while claiming to have been part of those that bought Macs back when they were "beleaguered". Not necessarily directed at you but I'm really tired of these folks who probably never bought a PowerMac ever claiming to have "saved" Apple so now Apple owes them a inexpensive xMac that hasn't existed since the 2003 PowerMac G4.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-Apple-MacBook-Pro-Retina-15-Quad-Core-i7-2-2GHz-16GB-Ram-256GB-SSD/122543950365
Obviously Apple prefers you do the latter but either works.
But it's bullshit to claim that you'll see a difference in "a couple years". My 2013 MBP came stock with 512GB SSD (lowest model with discrete GPU) and I have over 250GB of science data and 50GB of ProRes I should have moved to an external drive but have been lazy. And my externals are not "painfully slow". Some of the sleds are from Atomos and used within the recorder. These are slightly thicker than my iPhone 7 but smaller in size.
And no "storage hog" will be able to live within 2TB anyway so externals are always required.
I usually find my views sync fairly closely to yours, but not in this case. I also take exception to your calling my observation "bullshit." It obviously isn't. The price of that 512GB SSD you describe dropped by HALF in "a couple years." The maximum capacity available in a Mac doubled in a couple years, then again a couple years later. Or maybe "a few years." Certainly within the normal ownership window of a MacBook Pro.
Your point that you have files you could offload to another device doesn't mean there wouldn't be value in user-upgradable storage. Not everyone has that luxury, either. I carry around TBs worth of material that I may not need on any given day, but must have on hand just in case I do.
I guess if I sold my car and a kidney I could have lots of fast storage in a manageable size, but 4TB of external isn't ever going to be small, convenient and affordable. Maybe any combination of two, but not all three. At this point the choices are to carry multiple devices or live with one slow one.
$218 Amazon for solid R/W performance. This drive has been around since 2014. Small, convenient, affordable and fast...but RAID 0.
The more recent single drive is slower but only $118 from Amazon. I have a couple of these for both backup and primary data storage (that is backed up of course). 126MB/s write 126MB/s read.
And for modern MBPs with USB-C you can do this:
http://a.co/eq3q5B0
or
http://a.co/iYg5PkH
and then put in whatever 2 drives you want. 4TB RAID 0 SSD (2xCrucial MX300 2TB) will run you about $1200 and be blazing fast.
One reviewer using old M500 SSDs reported:
Sequential Read : 773.286 MB/s
Sequential Write : 746.424 MB/s
Random Read 512KB : 624.298 MB/s
Random Write 512KB : 654.270 MB/s
On a budget you can use a 4TB HDD and a 512GB SSD and either create a Fusion Drive or use them as two drives and manage usage manually. $120 for HDD, $150 SSD, $80 enclosure = $350 for 4.5TB of portable storage that is fast, affordable and convenient in a single external enclosure (5.1 x 6.5 x 1.1 in). The smaller enclosure (3.5 x 5.51 x 1.4 in) will only do 9mm drives so will not be able to fit the 4TB HDD but could do 2TB HDD + 512GB SSD for 2.5TB. I'd probably opt for the 2TB FireCuda for $90 (http://a.co/brYkexg) and see how fast it would be as a Fusion drive.
I *tried* to buy one of those! Despite Mediasonic being a Canadian company, that particular model is hard to find here. NCIX had never heard of it, it's not on Newegg's Canadian site, and I couldn't find it on Amazon.ca. It's been a while since I looked so maybe it's on Amazon.ca now.
I've seen that one, but somehow I got the impression that Oyen has a bad reputation for reliability. I don't remember why I think that. Do you have any experience with them?
You are more affluent than me. $1200 for a sidecar is more than I can swing. I get your point, though.
The pointers you've provided are helpful and welcome! Thanks!
YMMV. It all depends on the chips they use for whatever generation and it's mid-tier quality control. The name brands have has equally poor periods of failures and I have a couple semi expensive OWC enclosures that sucked.
As as long as you can manage the risks of RAID-0 these smallish (not tiny but not huge) enclosures can be quite speedy work disks. As long as you back up religiously it should be fine.
Personally I use a SSD in a slim enclosure and leave the 4TB in the bag for those rare occasions I need something from the data pile. If I were editing 4K regularly I'd probably do the RAID-0 enclosure with 2 512GB SSDs but my workflow is still largely 1080 since I'm not a pro videographer.