There’s no way the base model MacBook Pro should be 128 GB in mid-2017. And especially so at those prices. Ffs, the 13” Touch Bar model here is over €2K.
Tbh there’s too many Apple products across all lineups—it’s a grand mess. I’d cull lots of items and focus heavily on streamlining the product lineups and options to drive prices down a bit. I certainly wouldn’t have iMac Pro taking up a ‘new’ tab on the store Mac toolbar, when it’s shipping in 6 months time!!
MacBook shouldn’t be 12” either. It should be 13” and it should start at 128 GB and $999, or less!! And it should have at least a TB3 port. Coinciding with this move MBA should be killed (if MB can match its battery life). And MBP should start at 256 GB for the $1,299 model.
Furthermore, iPad Pro base prices are too high and the price gap from regular iPad to iPad Pro is too large. The pricing of the leather sleeve is also shameful. And iPad Pro smart keyboards are overpriced for what they are (should be $129 for 10.5” model). Every customer should leave the store with a keyboard and a pencil. The keyboard isn’t worth $159. And no, it’s not worth what people are willing to pay for it. It’s worth what it’s worth and it is certainly not worth $159 for the 10.5” model.
If they have to keep the prices of the 256 GB and 512 GB models of iPad Pro the same then so be it, but for God’s sake lower the 64 GB models by $100. That means iPad is $329, $429 & then $549 for a smaller GB Pro model which is fair. That means a 64 GB iPad Pro with a Pencil and Smart Keyboard would be $777 before tax which sounds spot on price to me.
”Leave the world better than you found it”, applies not only to the environment, but to your customers and a moral sense of dignity, values, value and respect. Yes Apple is a business, but we try to hold them in a higher regard. I only wished they would live up to what we expect of them. Sadly, if it isn’t apparently by now... they likely never will. A great corporation, but a corporation nevertheless. They make it very difficult for me to recommend their products. An iPad Pro would be perfectly suited for my retired uncle, but I just can’t bring myself to recommend them at the price they are.
Sounds like you should start a computer company and do things the way you think they should be.
I agree with statements above that the Mac and idevices lineup is too cluttered. Reminds me of the Performa/ Power Mac/ Quadra/ LC days. When Steve saved apple he gave us a Power Mac G3, then a PowerBook, then iMac, and then iBook, and that's the way it was for many years. The Macbook/ Macbook Air/ Macbook Pro models are making the product lineup very convoluted.
Where "many years" = "TWO YEARS". The G4 Cube was introduced in 2000.
There has been a tendency since 2011 to take ANY decision Apple makes that one happens to disagree with, and flat-out claim that this sort of thing was different or never happened under Steve Jobs.
It's almost always bullshit.
If you're really confused by Apple's product palette, you're probably not trying, but here it is:
MacBook - low-end laptop, 12" MacBook Pro - high-end laptop, 13" or 15" (MacBook Air is a placeholder until Apple is able to drop MacBook prices below $1000 entry-level)
Mac mini - low-end desktop iMac - mid-range desktop, 21" or 27" display. iMac Pro - high-end desktop, 27" display. Mac Pro - workstation, high-end.
iPad mini - small iPad. iPad - entry-level, 9.7" iPad Pro - higher-end, pencil support, 10.5" or 12.9"
In essence Apple has created a new, lower-price entry level model, while leaving the next tier up at the sa,e price but with better hardware, and still you people whine about it. wtf. Don't want the new, cheaper entry level model? Fine don't get one. But the nerd rage about things you don't even plan to buy is so neurotic and weird.
And of course, if Apple had lowered the price on the new model then the same whiners would be screaming that the company was screwing early adopters, even though the aforementioned whingers never had any intention of buying one now, later, and most probably, ever.
And let's not forget that the people complaining the lineup is too complicated will be complaining in the next thread that Apple doesn't offer them enough choice in the $100 to $200 sweet spot where the rest of the market is heading.
The 2008 MBA shipped with a 128GB SSD option. In 2017, Apple should really be offering more on the MacBook Pro.
It's almost embarrassing.
It's not something that requires any engineering effort. It would make users' lives far more comfortable.
The reason they did it probably has no real relevance to production costs. They have plenty of margins to play with on the accounting side.
The probable issue is that it could adversely affect its larger brother. That would almost be a double whammy, so they are repeating the iPhone strategy. Offer the cheaper machine but make it less attractive and upsell.
There may be solution. Every year as price of major components go down, Apple can offer older components in new model at lower price but newer component upgrade at higher price. For example, 256GB SSD of past which is slower than newer version is offered at lower price and you have option to upgrade it with price. Same size SSD but the lower price MBP at lower performance. This works similar to 2.3Ghz to 2.7Ghz processor upgrade. Somehow Apple should create decent low end MBP at $1299 price point which is blindly go to MBP for millions of first time casual and highschool/college students.
There may be solution. Every year as price of major components go down, Apple can offer older components in new model at lower price but newer component upgrade at higher price. For example, 256GB SSD of past which is slower than newer version is offered at lower price and you have option to upgrade it with price. Same size SSD but the lower price MBP at lower performance. This works similar to 2.3Ghz to 2.7Ghz processor upgrade. Somehow Apple should create decent low end MBP at $1299 price point which is blindly go to MBP for millions of first time casual and highschool/college students.
If you think including a slower SSD would produce fewer complaints, you really haven't been following along.
There may be solution. Every year as price of major components go down, Apple can offer older components in new model at lower price but newer component upgrade at higher price. For example, 256GB SSD of past which is slower than newer version is offered at lower price and you have option to upgrade it with price. Same size SSD but the lower price MBP at lower performance. This works similar to 2.3Ghz to 2.7Ghz processor upgrade. Somehow Apple should create decent low end MBP at $1299 price point which is blindly go to MBP for millions of first time casual and highschool/college students.
If you think including a slower SSD would produce fewer complaints, you really haven't been following along.
Not sure about that. In the same way that shaving mm off thickness on an already thin machine isn't all that noteworthy for most folks, having a very fast but 'slower than fastest' option would be welcomed at the entry level if it meant double the onboard space.
The problem is that you run into what I mentioned before, a resulting machine that is so attractive that it impacts it's bigger brothers.
You guys should be so lucky to lose your minds about the merits of 128 vs 256 GB SSD. I can think of a lot of companies where there employees are not aloud to store files on the company laptop, all files must be on company servers. The same could be said about education laptops as well, I am sure many schools shudder at the idea of personal photos or videos on the school laptops. So relax. Someone go freak out on the $3,700 Dell Alien laptop with pink trim.
There may be solution. Every year as price of major components go down, Apple can offer older components in new model at lower price but newer component upgrade at higher price. For example, 256GB SSD of past which is slower than newer version is offered at lower price and you have option to upgrade it with price. Same size SSD but the lower price MBP at lower performance. This works similar to 2.3Ghz to 2.7Ghz processor upgrade. Somehow Apple should create decent low end MBP at $1299 price point which is blindly go to MBP for millions of first time casual and highschool/college students.
If you think including a slower SSD would produce fewer complaints, you really haven't been following along.
Not sure about that. In the same way that shaving mm off thickness on an already thin machine isn't all that noteworthy for most folks, having a very fast but 'slower than fastest' option would be welcomed at the entry level if it meant double the onboard space.
The problem is that you run into what I mentioned before, a resulting machine that is so attractive that it impacts it's bigger brothers.
I love the idea though.
I think that any compromise is going to have people up in arms. And one in speed doubly so.
There’s no way the base model MacBook Pro should be 128 GB in mid-2017. And especially so at those prices. Ffs, the 13” Touch Bar model here is over €2K.
Tbh there’s too many Apple products across all lineups—it’s a grand mess. I’d cull lots of items and focus heavily on streamlining the product lineups and options to drive prices down a bit. I certainly wouldn’t have iMac Pro taking up a ‘new’ tab on the store Mac toolbar, when it’s shipping in 6 months time!!
MacBook shouldn’t be 12” either. It should be 13” and it should start at 128 GB and $999, or less!! And it should have at least a TB3 port. Coinciding with this move MBA should be killed (if MB can match its battery life). And MBP should start at 256 GB for the $1,299 model.
Furthermore, iPad Pro base prices are too high and the price gap from regular iPad to iPad Pro is too large. The pricing of the leather sleeve is also shameful. And iPad Pro smart keyboards are overpriced for what they are (should be $129 for 10.5” model). Every customer should leave the store with a keyboard and a pencil. The keyboard isn’t worth $159. And no, it’s not worth what people are willing to pay for it. It’s worth what it’s worth and it is certainly not worth $159 for the 10.5” model.
If they have to keep the prices of the 256 GB and 512 GB models of iPad Pro the same then so be it, but for God’s sake lower the 64 GB models by $100. That means iPad is $329, $429 & then $549 for a smaller GB Pro model which is fair. That means a 64 GB iPad Pro with a Pencil and Smart Keyboard would be $777 before tax which sounds spot on price to me.
”Leave the world better than you found it”, applies not only to the environment, but to your customers and a moral sense of dignity, values, value and respect. Yes Apple is a business, but we try to hold them in a higher regard. I only wished they would live up to what we expect of them. Sadly, if it isn’t apparently by now... they likely never will. A great corporation, but a corporation nevertheless. They make it very difficult for me to recommend their products. An iPad Pro would be perfectly suited for my retired uncle, but I just can’t bring myself to recommend them at the price they are.
Sounds like you should start a computer company and do things the way you think they should be.
Calling a spade a spade.
But that's not what you're doing. You're just spouting off all the stuff *you* would like them to do. That by no means settles it as a matter of fact. It's just your opinion. Which is very different from, say, mine. So it's not at all identifying a spade as a spade. It's just you saying things.
In essence Apple has created a new, lower-price entry level model, while leaving the next tier up at the sa,e price but with better hardware, and still you people whine about it. wtf. Don't want the new, cheaper entry level model? Fine don't get one. But the nerd rage about things you don't even plan to buy is so neurotic and weird.
And of course, if Apple had lowered the price on the new model then the same whiners would be screaming that the company was screwing early adopters, even though the aforementioned whingers never had any intention of buying one now, later, and most probably, ever.
And let's not forget that the people complaining the lineup is too complicated will be complaining in the next thread that Apple doesn't offer them enough choice in the $100 to $200 sweet spot where the rest of the market is heading.
The 2008 MBA shipped with a 128GB SSD option. In 2017, Apple should really be offering more on the MacBook Pro.
It's almost embarrassing.
It's not something that requires any engineering effort. It would make users' lives far more comfortable.
The reason they did it probably has no real relevance to production costs. They have plenty of margins to play with on the accounting side.
The probable issue is that it could adversely affect its larger brother. That would almost be a double whammy, so they are repeating the iPhone strategy. Offer the cheaper machine but make it less attractive and upsell.
If people complain, it's a fair complaint.
The "But it's a decoy product!" trope is one of the dumber things I've read on these forums, whenever it comes up. No, it's just an entry-level product. Having a matrix of products or tiers is how you attempt to capture more of the market. They aren't designing and engineering and tooling and inventorying these entry-level products just to have them sit in a warehouse, unsold. That isn't how real life works. It's a cheaper price point for less features, which is offered to those who decide they will derive value from it. That needn't be you, or me, or everybody. It only has to be enough to make it worth the trouble. If nobody buys the entry-level model, it won't exist.
In essence Apple has created a new, lower-price entry level model, while leaving the next tier up at the sa,e price but with better hardware, and still you people whine about it. wtf. Don't want the new, cheaper entry level model? Fine don't get one. But the nerd rage about things you don't even plan to buy is so neurotic and weird.
And of course, if Apple had lowered the price on the new model then the same whiners would be screaming that the company was screwing early adopters, even though the aforementioned whingers never had any intention of buying one now, later, and most probably, ever.
And let's not forget that the people complaining the lineup is too complicated will be complaining in the next thread that Apple doesn't offer them enough choice in the $100 to $200 sweet spot where the rest of the market is heading.
The 2008 MBA shipped with a 128GB SSD option. In 2017, Apple should really be offering more on the MacBook Pro.
It's almost embarrassing.
It's not something that requires any engineering effort. It would make users' lives far more comfortable.
The reason they did it probably has no real relevance to production costs. They have plenty of margins to play with on the accounting side.
The probable issue is that it could adversely affect its larger brother. That would almost be a double whammy, so they are repeating the iPhone strategy. Offer the cheaper machine but make it less attractive and upsell.
If people complain, it's a fair complaint.
The "But it's a decoy product!" trope is one of the dumber things I've read on these forums, whenever it comes up. No, it's just an entry-level product. Having a matrix of products or tiers is how you attempt to capture more of the market. They aren't designing and engineering and tooling and inventorying these entry-level products just to have them sit in a warehouse, unsold. That isn't how real life works. It's a cheaper price point for less features, which is offered to those who decide they will derive value from it. That needn't be you, or me, or everybody. It only has to be enough to make it worth the trouble. If nobody buys the entry-level model, it won't exist.
Pretty simple stuff.
Far from dumb. It's exactly what they did for years with iPads and iPhones. As there was no easy way around the lack of storage on those devices, they even went so far as to eliminate the next step up just to squeeze that little more out of you. Of course, for Apple it wasn't even an evil move because they would always serve up the woefully inadequate cheaper, entry level model so that you could buy one and then learn the lesson for next time around.
This time we are actually marking a step back. A step back to SSD capacities of almost 10 years ago on a completely new architecture.
But if it's logical product delivery, why are they doing this now instead of at launch? Why does this teaser option even exist? Are they not shipping enough of the new machines? If not, why?
In essence Apple has created a new, lower-price entry level model, while leaving the next tier up at the sa,e price but with better hardware, and still you people whine about it. wtf. Don't want the new, cheaper entry level model? Fine don't get one. But the nerd rage about things you don't even plan to buy is so neurotic and weird.
And of course, if Apple had lowered the price on the new model then the same whiners would be screaming that the company was screwing early adopters, even though the aforementioned whingers never had any intention of buying one now, later, and most probably, ever.
And let's not forget that the people complaining the lineup is too complicated will be complaining in the next thread that Apple doesn't offer them enough choice in the $100 to $200 sweet spot where the rest of the market is heading.
The 2008 MBA shipped with a 128GB SSD option. In 2017, Apple should really be offering more on the MacBook Pro.
It's almost embarrassing.
It's not something that requires any engineering effort. It would make users' lives far more comfortable.
The reason they did it probably has no real relevance to production costs. They have plenty of margins to play with on the accounting side.
The probable issue is that it could adversely affect its larger brother. That would almost be a double whammy, so they are repeating the iPhone strategy. Offer the cheaper machine but make it less attractive and upsell.
If people complain, it's a fair complaint.
The "But it's a decoy product!" trope is one of the dumber things I've read on these forums, whenever it comes up. No, it's just an entry-level product. Having a matrix of products or tiers is how you attempt to capture more of the market. They aren't designing and engineering and tooling and inventorying these entry-level products just to have them sit in a warehouse, unsold. That isn't how real life works. It's a cheaper price point for less features, which is offered to those who decide they will derive value from it. That needn't be you, or me, or everybody. It only has to be enough to make it worth the trouble. If nobody buys the entry-level model, it won't exist.
Pretty simple stuff.
Far from dumb. It's exactly what they did for years with iPads and iPhones. As there was no easy way around the lack of storage on those devices, they even went so far as to eliminate the next step up just to squeeze that little more out of you. Of course, for Apple it wasn't even an evil move because they would always serve up the woefully inadequate cheaper, entry level model so that you could buy one and then learn the lesson for next time around.
Nope. There is no such thing as a "woefully inadequate" iphone because different people have different needs. During this time of the pretend-controversy on the 16GB models, I knew lots of people who owned the entry-level model because -- surprise -- they were entry-level users. Completely happy with 16gb because it met their needs. Just because it didn't meet *your* needs doesn't mean it was trick to "upsell" (such a loaded weasel-word, btw). They are simply varying feature-to-price spreads in order to capture more of the market.
I'm still using a 16gb iPad mini this very day. And yet it contains all of my photos, and all of my music, thanks to some nifty features.
As for why now, who knows. But your suggestion that they aren't selling enough MBPs is just FUD. Schiller said the new MBP is a best seller and I have no reason to doubt him since Apple execs don't lie.
I look forward to getting a chance to see these machines. I'm unimpressed after buying the MacDongle (for travel and couch-surfing only with its pseudo-keyboard) and MacDongle Pro (with its what-turned-out to-be-gimmicky touchbar). I catch myself regretting giving my daughter my prev generation 13" Macbook Pro as its usability and connectivity was much better. After going back to Apple for the last 8 years, I'm starting to cast envious glances at the Windows world again for their more practical if more bug-catching machines. Uh oh Apple...
I'm already pining for a Touch Bar on the external keyboard I'm using in the studio, and the built-in keyboard on the 2016 Pro is the best I've used in 20 years (when I gave up my old ADB Extended Keyboard).
I'm already pining for a Touch Bar on the external keyboard I'm using in the studio, and the built-in keyboard on the 2016 Pro is the best I've used in 20 years (when I gave up my old ADB Extended Keyboard).
Appreciate the perspective. My background probably has something to do with it--first well-paying job was merchants calling us with a whole stream of numbers and codes and they'd try to trip us up by rattling them off faster than we could type. We'd have a blast. When I moved into Operations I'd set up strings of macros tied to key strokes -- same later in Finance with Lotus 1-2-3 (remember the /). Mice/touchpads are great for design, but give me a good keyboard for productivity.
Comments
There has been a tendency since 2011 to take ANY decision Apple makes that one happens to disagree with, and flat-out claim that this sort of thing was different or never happened under Steve Jobs.
It's almost always bullshit.
If you're really confused by Apple's product palette, you're probably not trying, but here it is:
MacBook - low-end laptop, 12"
MacBook Pro - high-end laptop, 13" or 15"
(MacBook Air is a placeholder until Apple is able to drop MacBook prices below $1000 entry-level)
Mac mini - low-end desktop
iMac - mid-range desktop, 21" or 27" display.
iMac Pro - high-end desktop, 27" display.
Mac Pro - workstation, high-end.
iPad mini - small iPad.
iPad - entry-level, 9.7"
iPad Pro - higher-end, pencil support, 10.5" or 12.9"
It's almost embarrassing.
It's not something that requires any engineering effort. It would make users' lives far more comfortable.
The reason they did it probably has no real relevance to production costs. They have plenty of margins to play with on the accounting side.
The probable issue is that it could adversely affect its larger brother. That would almost be a double whammy, so they are repeating the iPhone strategy. Offer the cheaper machine but make it less attractive and upsell.
If people complain, it's a fair complaint.
The problem is that you run into what I mentioned before, a resulting machine that is so attractive that it impacts it's bigger brothers.
I love the idea though.
Is there any hope at all that OWC or others will eventually have a replacement card for the 128GB, or is it soldered in?
The "But it's a decoy product!" trope is one of the dumber things I've read on these forums, whenever it comes up. No, it's just an entry-level product. Having a matrix of products or tiers is how you attempt to capture more of the market. They aren't designing and engineering and tooling and inventorying these entry-level products just to have them sit in a warehouse, unsold. That isn't how real life works. It's a cheaper price point for less features, which is offered to those who decide they will derive value from it. That needn't be you, or me, or everybody. It only has to be enough to make it worth the trouble. If nobody buys the entry-level model, it won't exist.
Pretty simple stuff.
This time we are actually marking a step back. A step back to SSD capacities of almost 10 years ago on a completely new architecture.
But if it's logical product delivery, why are they doing this now instead of at launch? Why does this teaser option even exist? Are they not shipping enough of the new machines? If not, why?
I'm still using a 16gb iPad mini this very day. And yet it contains all of my photos, and all of my music, thanks to some nifty features.
As for why now, who knows. But your suggestion that they aren't selling enough MBPs is just FUD. Schiller said the new MBP is a best seller and I have no reason to doubt him since Apple execs don't lie.
I'm already pining for a Touch Bar on the external keyboard I'm using in the studio, and the built-in keyboard on the 2016 Pro is the best I've used in 20 years (when I gave up my old ADB Extended Keyboard).