A10X Fusion chip in new iPad Pro first consumer device built on TSMC's 10nm process

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  • Reply 41 of 51
    tipootipoo Posts: 1,166member
    It's interesting that it's rather conservative on die size despite being such a performance champ - A11 could have substantial gains in store. Maybe once again, the tri-core is a singular concession for the A10X being a pipe cleaning model. 
    netmage
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  • Reply 42 of 51
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,769member
    edit
    edited July 2017
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  • Reply 43 of 51
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,769member
    tmay said:


    I would love to have an AR mode that would allow a temporal shift backwards at a particular location so that a person could look back in time. Not sure how you would obtain the data as there was little in the way of photogrammetry in use in most of the U.S. and it was used sparingly for topological mapping. There might be Landsat data going back a few decades that could be repurposed for AR.
    I've had fun with this a couple of times. Yup, interesting stuff
    https://earthengine.google.com/timelapse/

    Or just pick a place for yourself somewhere , maybe a former hometown or a vacation spot you loved years ago, and use the 3D viewer with the "time" feature. 
    https://support.google.com/earth/answer/148094?hl=en
    edited July 2017
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  • Reply 44 of 51
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    foggyhill said:
    People are all saying, those 300 dollar can do what the iPhone can do... well the jokes on them as Apple really turns on the screws as they now custom tune the gpu to their own specs 

    they won't even know ewhat hit them.
    google probably knows but is quite late in wanting to start their own chip design

    Yep!  When you come to needs that are addressed by exclusive [to Apple] capabilities, cost becomes a non-issue.  

    I read somewhere that VR is like a game app or airplane simulator app -- they handle, and are limited by, situations that the programmer has written into the app.  Whereas AR has no such limitations.

    Supposedly there is an install-base of over a billion iOS devices capable of running iOS 11.  No-one else has that advantage --  and won't be able to match Apple's AR capability for years (if ever).

    And, on the business side, with its AR offerings, Apple is creating an unquenchable thirst for more, better, faster -- that will last for years!


    The visual environment could have an overlay of layer were deçà could provide standardized services through the API, the phone and user could provide more sensor data to provide even more services, temp, humidity, heart rate, access to Siri and voice recognition, Eco location, etc. Anything is possible and with apples ability to manipulate all data streams in real time, all will vbecome possible. Android in which new versions have very low penetration rates will be unable to follow. That's why google is getting into chip making 
    edited July 2017
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  • Reply 45 of 51
    Herbivore2herbivore2 Posts: 367member
    blastdoor said:
    Soli said:
    A couple things of note:

    • Apple's A10X is a 10nm process while Intel is still at 14nm with Kaby Lake in the new MBPs.
    • Even with the smaller npde process the A-series chips usually have grown in size.
    • Just imagine what Apple could offer if they designed a chip that had the power envelop and TDP of the Intel chips they use in their notebooks, without all the wasted features of Intel's offerings and at a fraction of the price.

    What TSMC calls 10nm and what Intel calls 10nm are not the same thing. TSMC's 10nm is probably somewhere in between Intel's 14nm and Intel's 10nm. 

    But that's a small point.

    Apple's windstorm cores are amazing. I have a new iPad Pro 12.9" and it really is super speedy. But while I really do like it, I wish my Mac could benefit from Apple's CPU design team. 
    TSMC originally had no plans on releasing a 10 nm process. They originally planned to go straight to 7 nm from 16 nm albeit with a bit of a delay. They developed 10 nm at Apple's request likely in an attempt to keep up with Samsung rather than Intel. 

    Though InFO isn't used in the iPad as the space constraints aren't the same as in the iPhone, neither Intel nor Samsung have anything similar and InFO offers benefits even over Intel at 10 nm. TSMC has big plans for the 7 nm node. 7 nm and InFO should allow for the development of powerful wearable SOCs. Samsung will have other advantages with respect to display technology and memory. 

    It is interesting watching Samsung and Apple come to dominate the computing industry. Intel may not even survive. If they do, they will be a niche player and much smaller than they currently are. QCOM is certainly in trouble. 

    I actually believe that Apple would have done well to put the A series chip into an entry level MacBook. But on the other hand, why spend the resources on a platform that is slowly dying off anyway. iOS is the future of computing and Apple continues to carefully advance the platform. In the next two to three years, I would not be surprised to see the iPad Pro exceed the best MacBook Pro both in software and hardware capabilities. 
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  • Reply 46 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,713member
    blastdoor said:
    Soli said:
    A couple things of note:

    • Apple's A10X is a 10nm process while Intel is still at 14nm with Kaby Lake in the new MBPs.
    • Even with the smaller npde process the A-series chips usually have grown in size.
    • Just imagine what Apple could offer if they designed a chip that had the power envelop and TDP of the Intel chips they use in their notebooks, without all the wasted features of Intel's offerings and at a fraction of the price.

    What TSMC calls 10nm and what Intel calls 10nm are not the same thing. TSMC's 10nm is probably somewhere in between Intel's 14nm and Intel's 10nm. 

    But that's a small point.

    Apple's windstorm cores are amazing. I have a new iPad Pro 12.9" and it really is super speedy. But while I really do like it, I wish my Mac could benefit from Apple's CPU design team. 
    TSMC originally had no plans on releasing a 10 nm process. They originally planned to go straight to 7 nm from 16 nm albeit with a bit of a delay. They developed 10 nm at Apple's request likely in an attempt to keep up with Samsung rather than Intel. 

    Though InFO isn't used in the iPad as the space constraints aren't the same as in the iPhone, neither Intel nor Samsung have anything similar and InFO offers benefits even over Intel at 10 nm. TSMC has big plans for the 7 nm node. 7 nm and InFO should allow for the development of powerful wearable SOCs. Samsung will have other advantages with respect to display technology and memory. 

    It is interesting watching Samsung and Apple come to dominate the computing industry. Intel may not even survive. If they do, they will be a niche player and much smaller than they currently are. QCOM is certainly in trouble. 

    I actually believe that Apple would have done well to put the A series chip into an entry level MacBook. But on the other hand, why spend the resources on a platform that is slowly dying off anyway. iOS is the future of computing and Apple continues to carefully advance the platform. In the next two to three years, I would not be surprised to see the iPad Pro exceed the best MacBook Pro both in software and hardware capabilities. 
    I don’t think so. If they hadn’t come out with 10nm they would have been at least a year behind everyone else, and possibly a good 18 months. 7nm isn’t ready, and won’t be for a while. It’s got a year, at least, before anyone gets small production out of that. It would be quite a gap.
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  • Reply 47 of 51
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,470member
    melgross said:
    blastdoor said:
    Soli said:
    A couple things of note:

    • Apple's A10X is a 10nm process while Intel is still at 14nm with Kaby Lake in the new MBPs.
    • Even with the smaller npde process the A-series chips usually have grown in size.
    • Just imagine what Apple could offer if they designed a chip that had the power envelop and TDP of the Intel chips they use in their notebooks, without all the wasted features of Intel's offerings and at a fraction of the price.

    What TSMC calls 10nm and what Intel calls 10nm are not the same thing. TSMC's 10nm is probably somewhere in between Intel's 14nm and Intel's 10nm. 

    But that's a small point.

    Apple's windstorm cores are amazing. I have a new iPad Pro 12.9" and it really is super speedy. But while I really do like it, I wish my Mac could benefit from Apple's CPU design team. 
    TSMC originally had no plans on releasing a 10 nm process. They originally planned to go straight to 7 nm from 16 nm albeit with a bit of a delay. They developed 10 nm at Apple's request likely in an attempt to keep up with Samsung rather than Intel. 

    Though InFO isn't used in the iPad as the space constraints aren't the same as in the iPhone, neither Intel nor Samsung have anything similar and InFO offers benefits even over Intel at 10 nm. TSMC has big plans for the 7 nm node. 7 nm and InFO should allow for the development of powerful wearable SOCs. Samsung will have other advantages with respect to display technology and memory. 

    It is interesting watching Samsung and Apple come to dominate the computing industry. Intel may not even survive. If they do, they will be a niche player and much smaller than they currently are. QCOM is certainly in trouble. 

    I actually believe that Apple would have done well to put the A series chip into an entry level MacBook. But on the other hand, why spend the resources on a platform that is slowly dying off anyway. iOS is the future of computing and Apple continues to carefully advance the platform. In the next two to three years, I would not be surprised to see the iPad Pro exceed the best MacBook Pro both in software and hardware capabilities. 
    I don’t think so. If they hadn’t come out with 10nm they would have been at least a year behind everyone else, and possibly a good 18 months. 7nm isn’t ready, and won’t be for a while. It’s got a year, at least, before anyone gets small production out of that. It would be quite a gap.
    I wouldn't be surprised if the very first TSMC output at the 7nm node ends up in an Apple Watch SoC, along with a microLED screen.
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  • Reply 48 of 51
    cornchipcornchip Posts: 1,954member
    Folio said:

    --  if you convince your spouse to keep it virtual. 
    I've never been able to convince her. She always ends up wanting the real thing :wink: 
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  • Reply 49 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,713member
    tmay said:
    melgross said:
    blastdoor said:
    Soli said:
    A couple things of note:

    • Apple's A10X is a 10nm process while Intel is still at 14nm with Kaby Lake in the new MBPs.
    • Even with the smaller npde process the A-series chips usually have grown in size.
    • Just imagine what Apple could offer if they designed a chip that had the power envelop and TDP of the Intel chips they use in their notebooks, without all the wasted features of Intel's offerings and at a fraction of the price.

    What TSMC calls 10nm and what Intel calls 10nm are not the same thing. TSMC's 10nm is probably somewhere in between Intel's 14nm and Intel's 10nm. 

    But that's a small point.

    Apple's windstorm cores are amazing. I have a new iPad Pro 12.9" and it really is super speedy. But while I really do like it, I wish my Mac could benefit from Apple's CPU design team. 
    TSMC originally had no plans on releasing a 10 nm process. They originally planned to go straight to 7 nm from 16 nm albeit with a bit of a delay. They developed 10 nm at Apple's request likely in an attempt to keep up with Samsung rather than Intel. 

    Though InFO isn't used in the iPad as the space constraints aren't the same as in the iPhone, neither Intel nor Samsung have anything similar and InFO offers benefits even over Intel at 10 nm. TSMC has big plans for the 7 nm node. 7 nm and InFO should allow for the development of powerful wearable SOCs. Samsung will have other advantages with respect to display technology and memory. 

    It is interesting watching Samsung and Apple come to dominate the computing industry. Intel may not even survive. If they do, they will be a niche player and much smaller than they currently are. QCOM is certainly in trouble. 

    I actually believe that Apple would have done well to put the A series chip into an entry level MacBook. But on the other hand, why spend the resources on a platform that is slowly dying off anyway. iOS is the future of computing and Apple continues to carefully advance the platform. In the next two to three years, I would not be surprised to see the iPad Pro exceed the best MacBook Pro both in software and hardware capabilities. 
    I don’t think so. If they hadn’t come out with 10nm they would have been at least a year behind everyone else, and possibly a good 18 months. 7nm isn’t ready, and won’t be for a while. It’s got a year, at least, before anyone gets small production out of that. It would be quite a gap.
    I wouldn't be surprised if the very first TSMC output at the 7nm node ends up in an Apple Watch SoC, along with a microLED screen.
    That’s certainly possible. Nobody knows what Apple is doing with microled yet. Sure, I t’s assumed that it will be used for the watch first. It wouldn’t make sense to go to OLED for the phone, and then switch to microled in a year, or even two. I wonder who would be making it for them though. TSMC isn’t known for display manufacture.
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  • Reply 50 of 51
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,470member
    melgross said:
    tmay said:
    melgross said:
    blastdoor said:
    Soli said:
    A couple things of note:

    • Apple's A10X is a 10nm process while Intel is still at 14nm with Kaby Lake in the new MBPs.
    • Even with the smaller npde process the A-series chips usually have grown in size.
    • Just imagine what Apple could offer if they designed a chip that had the power envelop and TDP of the Intel chips they use in their notebooks, without all the wasted features of Intel's offerings and at a fraction of the price.

    What TSMC calls 10nm and what Intel calls 10nm are not the same thing. TSMC's 10nm is probably somewhere in between Intel's 14nm and Intel's 10nm. 

    But that's a small point.

    Apple's windstorm cores are amazing. I have a new iPad Pro 12.9" and it really is super speedy. But while I really do like it, I wish my Mac could benefit from Apple's CPU design team. 
    TSMC originally had no plans on releasing a 10 nm process. They originally planned to go straight to 7 nm from 16 nm albeit with a bit of a delay. They developed 10 nm at Apple's request likely in an attempt to keep up with Samsung rather than Intel. 

    Though InFO isn't used in the iPad as the space constraints aren't the same as in the iPhone, neither Intel nor Samsung have anything similar and InFO offers benefits even over Intel at 10 nm. TSMC has big plans for the 7 nm node. 7 nm and InFO should allow for the development of powerful wearable SOCs. Samsung will have other advantages with respect to display technology and memory. 

    It is interesting watching Samsung and Apple come to dominate the computing industry. Intel may not even survive. If they do, they will be a niche player and much smaller than they currently are. QCOM is certainly in trouble. 

    I actually believe that Apple would have done well to put the A series chip into an entry level MacBook. But on the other hand, why spend the resources on a platform that is slowly dying off anyway. iOS is the future of computing and Apple continues to carefully advance the platform. In the next two to three years, I would not be surprised to see the iPad Pro exceed the best MacBook Pro both in software and hardware capabilities. 
    I don’t think so. If they hadn’t come out with 10nm they would have been at least a year behind everyone else, and possibly a good 18 months. 7nm isn’t ready, and won’t be for a while. It’s got a year, at least, before anyone gets small production out of that. It would be quite a gap.
    I wouldn't be surprised if the very first TSMC output at the 7nm node ends up in an Apple Watch SoC, along with a microLED screen.
    That’s certainly possible. Nobody knows what Apple is doing with microled yet. Sure, I t’s assumed that it will be used for the watch first. It wouldn’t make sense to go to OLED for the phone, and then switch to microled in a year, or even two. I wonder who would be making it for them though. TSMC isn’t known for display manufacture.
    I didn't mean to imply that TMSC would make the microLED; poor writing on my part. For the watch, it may be that Apple has enough capacity planned at its LuxVue acquisition
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  • Reply 51 of 51
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,713member
    tmay said:
    melgross said:
    tmay said:
    melgross said:
    blastdoor said:
    Soli said:
    A couple things of note:

    • Apple's A10X is a 10nm process while Intel is still at 14nm with Kaby Lake in the new MBPs.
    • Even with the smaller npde process the A-series chips usually have grown in size.
    • Just imagine what Apple could offer if they designed a chip that had the power envelop and TDP of the Intel chips they use in their notebooks, without all the wasted features of Intel's offerings and at a fraction of the price.

    What TSMC calls 10nm and what Intel calls 10nm are not the same thing. TSMC's 10nm is probably somewhere in between Intel's 14nm and Intel's 10nm. 

    But that's a small point.

    Apple's windstorm cores are amazing. I have a new iPad Pro 12.9" and it really is super speedy. But while I really do like it, I wish my Mac could benefit from Apple's CPU design team. 
    TSMC originally had no plans on releasing a 10 nm process. They originally planned to go straight to 7 nm from 16 nm albeit with a bit of a delay. They developed 10 nm at Apple's request likely in an attempt to keep up with Samsung rather than Intel. 

    Though InFO isn't used in the iPad as the space constraints aren't the same as in the iPhone, neither Intel nor Samsung have anything similar and InFO offers benefits even over Intel at 10 nm. TSMC has big plans for the 7 nm node. 7 nm and InFO should allow for the development of powerful wearable SOCs. Samsung will have other advantages with respect to display technology and memory. 

    It is interesting watching Samsung and Apple come to dominate the computing industry. Intel may not even survive. If they do, they will be a niche player and much smaller than they currently are. QCOM is certainly in trouble. 

    I actually believe that Apple would have done well to put the A series chip into an entry level MacBook. But on the other hand, why spend the resources on a platform that is slowly dying off anyway. iOS is the future of computing and Apple continues to carefully advance the platform. In the next two to three years, I would not be surprised to see the iPad Pro exceed the best MacBook Pro both in software and hardware capabilities. 
    I don’t think so. If they hadn’t come out with 10nm they would have been at least a year behind everyone else, and possibly a good 18 months. 7nm isn’t ready, and won’t be for a while. It’s got a year, at least, before anyone gets small production out of that. It would be quite a gap.
    I wouldn't be surprised if the very first TSMC output at the 7nm node ends up in an Apple Watch SoC, along with a microLED screen.
    That’s certainly possible. Nobody knows what Apple is doing with microled yet. Sure, I t’s assumed that it will be used for the watch first. It wouldn’t make sense to go to OLED for the phone, and then switch to microled in a year, or even two. I wonder who would be making it for them though. TSMC isn’t known for display manufacture.
    I didn't mean to imply that TMSC would make the microLED; poor writing on my part. For the watch, it may be that Apple has enough capacity planned at its LuxVue acquisition
    I’m not sure that LuxVue ever had any capacity. Apple has also been researching this tech before that purchase. But with the info that Apple may be investing up to $2.6 billion in an LG OLED plant to obtain all of the capacity, it seems that they expect to be using OLED for some time. I think that MicroLED has a way to go yet. If Apple comes out with a Series 3 Apple Watch this year, it’s not likely that I would upgrade from my Series 2. If it had LTE AND MicroLED, well, just maybe. But I don’t think we’ll see it yet. And as Apple doesn’t seem to want to produce its own stuff, who would do it for them?
    edited July 2017
    gatorguy
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