Apple had bought two small GPU design companies over the years, and has a number of their own patents they had gotten besides whatever those companies had. If Apple spoke to them in 2015, it means they must have had enough IP to know where they were going with this, and had some inkling of when it might happen. The more specific times they gave them since, is just a refinement of that timeline.
going to the reviews in Anandtech of Apple’s iOS products for the past two years, at least, shows Anandtech being suspicious that there is Apple IP in the GPU, as what they see doesn’t exactly match up with Imagination’s IP. So we’re likely seeing some of Apple’s work in present products. If, as Apple says, they haven’t been taking any new Imagination IP since 2015, that’s really a big deal, because the question becomes - what is in their GPU?
Do you know the names of the two small GPU design companies Apple has bought?
Edited at 5:47 PM EST to remove 's' from Apple. :-)))
Apple had bought two small GPU design companies over the years, and has a number of their own patents they had gotten besides whatever those companies had. If Apple spoke to them in 2015, it means they must have had enough IP to know where they were going with this, and had some inkling of when it might happen. The more specific times they gave them since, is just a refinement of that timeline.
going to the reviews in Anandtech of Apple’s iOS products for the past two years, at least, shows Anandtech being suspicious that there is Apple IP in the GPU, as what they see doesn’t exactly match up with Imagination’s IP. So we’re likely seeing some of Apple’s work in present products. If, as Apple says, they haven’t been taking any new Imagination IP since 2015, that’s really a big deal, because the question becomes - what is in their GPU?
Do you know the names of the two small GPU design companies Apple has bought?
Edited at 5:47 PM EST to remove 's' from Apple. :-)))
I'm only aware of one graphics hardware company; Raycer Graphics purchased in 1999.
Note, Applieinsider is actually referenced in the article. Mike Wuerthele by name!
Quotes:
After years of recruiting graphics architects, Apple has designed its own custom GPU, which is already shipping in the A8, A9, and A10 processors that power the iPhone 6, 6S, and 7. The GPU in Apple’s processors still retains some fixed-function hardware from PowerVR, but based on publicly available evidence it is clear that the shader core in Apple’s GPU is architecturally very different from Imagination Technologies PowerVR line. This further implies that Apple wrote its own Metal and OpenGL ES compiler for its GPUs and almost certainly wrote the entire driver as well.
Going forward, Apple has three options. The status quo is licensing some or all of the fixed-function hardware from Imagination Technologies to complement internally designed components such as the shader core. In this scenario, Apple might eventually upgrade to a newer version of PowerVR, but presumably while negotiating a better deal for licensing and royalties. A second option is simply buying Imagination Technologies, although that would come with considerable extra baggage (e.g., the MIPS processor line) and Apple already passed on this opportunity earlier in 2016. On the other hand, Apple could continue to customize more and more of their GPU – eventually designing out Imagination Technologies.
Looks like Apple is now going for the 3rd option mentioned. This article was published on Oct 25, 2016. Kantar knows computer architecture better than 99.9999% (not sure I've used enough 9s) of the people commenting on the Internet.
I can't see how Imagination Tech turns out well at all in this imbroglio. There's no ifs ands or buts, they knew that Apple was moving away from PowerVR for at least 18 to 24 months now. At least. It should have been all hands on deck for Imagination Tech as soon as they saw the A8 SoC and the resultant reduction in IP fees from Apple. Maybe they did, but they didn't get anywhere and the MIPS buy probably divided their attention.
In the end, Imagination Tech's CEO blew it. PowerVR used to ship on Samsung Exynos, Intel Atom and MediaTek and HiSilicon or whatever they are called. Today, outside of Apple's half win, very few high volume wins. ARMH's Mali became the defacto GPU to license on ARM SoCs while Intel went with their own custom solution in Atoms. They went from a fairly large position in the market to now a niche of niche scraping by after Apple drops them. The CEO blew it and he should get all of the blame. Maybe the CTO should get some of the blame, but the buck stops at the CEO, right?
Somewhere, the licensing situation between Mali and PowerVR switched 180. Maybe Imagination Tech was asking for too much. Or maybe ARMH was giving a combo deal for CPU+GPU licensing. Who knows. It's hard to ignore their fortunes crumbling as soon as Mali became viable.
Note, Applieinsider is actually referenced in the article. Mike Wuerthele by name!
Quotes:
After years of recruiting graphics architects, Apple has designed its own custom GPU, which is already shipping in the A8, A9, and A10 processors that power the iPhone 6, 6S, and 7. The GPU in Apple’s processors still retains some fixed-function hardware from PowerVR, but based on publicly available evidence it is clear that the shader core in Apple’s GPU is architecturally very different from Imagination Technologies PowerVR line. This further implies that Apple wrote its own Metal and OpenGL ES compiler for its GPUs and almost certainly wrote the entire driver as well.
Going forward, Apple has three options. The status quo is licensing some or all of the fixed-function hardware from Imagination Technologies to complement internally designed components such as the shader core. In this scenario, Apple might eventually upgrade to a newer version of PowerVR, but presumably while negotiating a better deal for licensing and royalties. A second option is simply buying Imagination Technologies, although that would come with considerable extra baggage (e.g., the MIPS processor line) and Apple already passed on this opportunity earlier in 2016. On the other hand, Apple could continue to customize more and more of their GPU – eventually designing out Imagination Technologies.
Looks like Apple is now going for the 3rd option mentioned. This article was published on Oct 25, 2016. Kantar knows computer architecture better than 99.9999% (not sure I've used enough 9s) of the people commenting on the Internet.
I can't see how Imagination Tech turns out well at all in this imbroglio. There's no ifs ands or buts, they knew that Apple was moving away from PowerVR for at least 18 to 24 months now. At least. It should have been all hands on deck for Imagination Tech as soon as they saw the A8 SoC and the resultant reduction in IP fees from Apple. Maybe they did, but they didn't get anywhere and the MIPS buy probably divided their attention.
In the end, Imagination Tech's CEO blew it. PowerVR used to ship on Samsung Exynos, Intel Atom and MediaTek and HiSilicon or whatever they are called. Today, outside of Apple's half win, very few high volume wins. ARMH's Mali became the defacto GPU to license on ARM SoCs while Intel went with their own custom solution in Atoms. They went from a fairly large position in the market to now a niche of niche scraping by after Apple drops them. The CEO blew it and he should get all of the blame. Maybe the CTO should get some of the blame, but the buck stops at the CEO, right?
Somewhere, the licensing situation between Mali and PowerVR switched 180. Maybe Imagination Tech was asking for too much. Or maybe ARMH was giving a combo deal for CPU+GPU licensing. Who knows. It's hard to ignore their fortunes crumbling as soon as Mali became viable.
I'd argue convenience for ARM + Mali design. Probably wasn't enough performance benefit for using PowerVR over Mali. Those with an ARM architectural license would like to customize or roll their own GPU, so their wasn't a whole lot of market left for Imagination Technologies after Apple moved on.
If Apple no longer needs Imagination's IP why would they be in talks to acquire the company?
If Apple was able to acquire the company they can get the company to design specifically for them, which is clearly what Apple needs moving forward with machine learning and AR.
Apple didn't want the whole company to begin with, they had no need for MIPS, and Apple required exclusivity. Apple would have had to accept any contractual/licensing agreement with existing customers, and that revenue would be of little value in a purchase.
I’m not sure of your point since there was talk that Apple tried to make a purchase but they come to an agreement. It sounds like you’re saying Apple had no such intention to buy any of their IP or talent.
It seemed to me that it was Imagination that approached Apple about a buyout. With their sales of about $120 million for the year, and a loss atop that, including businesses Apple didn’t want, the $1 billion valuation Imagination had at the time would have been out of line with what Apple thought the value to Apple would have been. But, for a board to sell, the price has to be higher than current valuation. Otherwise, why sell? Usually, that value is about 30% higher than current valuation. The question becomes more complex if, as is required, word gets out, and the stock price begins rising.
truthfully, it’s difficult to evaluate the worth of IP. There are different measures with which to do that. Apple paid a high of $85 million in one year in licensing fees. Is that the worth, one year in fees? Is it worth multiple years in fees? How do each year’s fees get determined? After all, new IP will be developed, and older IP will be devalued, and later unused. The new IP owes something to past IP, but less as time goes on. If Apple is, as they said, moving in a new direction, that IP would be worth even less.
its why Apple didn’t buy the company a long time ago when they were worth less. It’s cheaper to let them do the work, and then license it. Additionally, if Apple sees IP somewhere else that it thinks more appropriate, it can change suppliers easily. Not so when you’re doing you’re own work.
I can see why Apple now wants to do this on their own. They’ve built up a massive chip team. They’re producing specialized chips for iOS and macOS machines. What else is left that could make a major improvement in the line? Well, the GPU, of course.
If Apple no longer needs Imagination's IP why would they be in talks to acquire the company?
to remove a potential competition, if another company acquires them?
But if Apple is going in a different direction in GPUs as they said they were in this most recent statement, then why care? Imagination already has other customers for this IP, just not a lot.
the second biggest customer, which I never see mentioned, is Intel. Intel still owns, or did last I checked, about 10% of Imagination. Intel’s IG (Integrated Graphics) uses, at least in part, Imagination’s IP. So, we might as well ask why Intel doesn’t buy them.
Sounds an awful lot like Imagination may have defrauded their investors. Expect class-action lawsuits. Lots of 'em.
Yeah this does not look good for Imagination. What is even worse is that Imagination has done nothing to expand their market base. Really we should have seen two years of action to get on other platforms instead we saw nothing.
I’m having some kind of glitch. I’m hoping it’s the 11 beta. Sometimes, and it’s only on this site (just like the problem I’m having where the first word of the second and later paragraphs don’t get capitalized, though that started with a beta of 10.3.3).
when I go to reply, sometimes I can’t get the keyboard to call up. When I can, after that problem, the cursor shows up in the comment I’m replying to, rather than the reply area at the bottom. That just happened, so I’m writing this.
mike, do you have any idea of bugs in the site forum software that could be the cause of any of this? The cursor problem just showed up in 11. I’m not having these problems anywhere else.
they've been trying all right. But it’s been a hard road. There are several other GPU designs out there, including those from ARM itself. Qualcomm has designs, etc. It’s probably cheaper to license the GPU from the chip maker, or from ARM if you’re producing a reference design, then to go for a third party. It’s likely also much easier, as you don’t need to do as much design work yourself to get everything working together.
imagination has bought other companies, such as MIPS, to get further into SoC design work, but it hasn’t gone as well as they thought.
Apple had bought two small GPU design companies over the years, and has a number of their own patents they had gotten besides whatever those companies had. If Apple spoke to them in 2015, it means they must have had enough IP to know where they were going with this, and had some inkling of when it might happen. The more specific times they gave them since, is just a refinement of that timeline.
going to the reviews in Anandtech of Apple’s iOS products for the past two years, at least, shows Anandtech being suspicious that there is Apple IP in the GPU, as what they see doesn’t exactly match up with Imagination’s IP. So we’re likely seeing some of Apple’s work in present products. If, as Apple says, they haven’t been taking any new Imagination IP since 2015, that’s really a big deal, because the question becomes - what is in their GPU?
Do you know the names of the two small GPU design companies Apple has bought?
Edited at 5:47 PM EST to remove 's' from Apple. :-)))
I'm only aware of one graphics hardware company; Raycer Graphics purchased in 1999.
Thank you! After learning the Raycer Graphics name, I did a DDG search and discovered Bob Mansfield was Vice President of Engineering at Raycer. Learning this information was a "nuclear bomb" moment! The one question that struck me was, "What if Bob Mansfield returned to Apple to finish a GPU instead of a car?" If the answer to my question is, "Bob returned for a GPU", then a lot of the rumors about Project Titan are wrong, wrong, wrong!!
I’m having some kind of glitch. I’m hoping it’s the 11 beta. Sometimes, and it’s only on this site (just like the problem I’m having where the first word of the second and later paragraphs don’t get capitalized, though that started with a beta of 10.3.3).
when I go to reply, sometimes I can’t get the keyboard to call up. When I can, after that problem, the cursor shows up in the comment I’m replying to, rather than the reply area at the bottom. That just happened, so I’m writing this.
mike, do you have any idea of bugs in the site forum software that could be the cause of any of this? The cursor problem just showed up in 11. I’m not having these problems anywhere else.
Apple had bought two small GPU design companies over the years, and has a number of their own patents they had gotten besides whatever those companies had. If Apple spoke to them in 2015, it means they must have had enough IP to know where they were going with this, and had some inkling of when it might happen. The more specific times they gave them since, is just a refinement of that timeline.
going to the reviews in Anandtech of Apple’s iOS products for the past two years, at least, shows Anandtech being suspicious that there is Apple IP in the GPU, as what they see doesn’t exactly match up with Imagination’s IP. So we’re likely seeing some of Apple’s work in present products. If, as Apple says, they haven’t been taking any new Imagination IP since 2015, that’s really a big deal, because the question becomes - what is in their GPU?
Do you know the names of the two small GPU design companies Apple has bought?
Edited at 5:47 PM EST to remove 's' from Apple. :-)))
I'm only aware of one graphics hardware company; Raycer Graphics purchased in 1999.
Thank you! After learning the Raycer Graphics name, I did a DDG search and discovered Bob Mansfield was Vice President of Engineering at Raycer. Learning this information was a "nuclear bomb" moment! The one question that struck me was, "What if Bob Mansfield returned to Apple to finish a GPU instead of a car?" If the answer to my question is, "Bob returned for a GPU", then a lot of the rumors about Project Titan are wrong, wrong, wrong!!
Autonomous driving requires object recognition and whatever neural net based decision making training for determining what to do based on objects that are identified. As has been promoted for years now, these type of functions run well on 8-bit and 16-bit GPU compete hardware. If Apple is building a system for autonomous driving, GPU style compute hardware will be part of Apple's integrated hardware, software and services solution. I wouldn't be surprised if whatever compute hardware Apple produces (Neural Engine blah blah blah) for Project Titan will be awesome at neural net algorithms, but may not be able to drive graphics and wouldn't even be called a GPU. But it'll follow many of the same design principles seen in GPUs.
Mansfield is well above engineering level these days. He's a computer hardware manager now. Cars are becoming computers too.
Note, Applieinsider is actually referenced in the article. Mike Wuerthele by name!
Quotes:
After years of recruiting graphics architects, Apple has designed its own custom GPU, which is already shipping in the A8, A9, and A10 processors that power the iPhone 6, 6S, and 7. The GPU in Apple’s processors still retains some fixed-function hardware from PowerVR, but based on publicly available evidence it is clear that the shader core in Apple’s GPU is architecturally very different from Imagination Technologies PowerVR line. This further implies that Apple wrote its own Metal and OpenGL ES compiler for its GPUs and almost certainly wrote the entire driver as well.
Going forward, Apple has three options. The status quo is licensing some or all of the fixed-function hardware from Imagination Technologies to complement internally designed components such as the shader core. In this scenario, Apple might eventually upgrade to a newer version of PowerVR, but presumably while negotiating a better deal for licensing and royalties. A second option is simply buying Imagination Technologies, although that would come with considerable extra baggage (e.g., the MIPS processor line) and Apple already passed on this opportunity earlier in 2016. On the other hand, Apple could continue to customize more and more of their GPU – eventually designing out Imagination Technologies.
Looks like Apple is now going for the 3rd option mentioned. This article was published on Oct 25, 2016. Kantar knows computer architecture better than 99.9999% (not sure I've used enough 9s) of the people commenting on the Internet.
I can't see how Imagination Tech turns out well at all in this imbroglio. There's no ifs ands or buts, they knew that Apple was moving away from PowerVR for at least 18 to 24 months now. At least. It should have been all hands on deck for Imagination Tech as soon as they saw the A8 SoC and the resultant reduction in IP fees from Apple. Maybe they did, but they didn't get anywhere and the MIPS buy probably divided their attention.
In the end, Imagination Tech's CEO blew it. PowerVR used to ship on Samsung Exynos, Intel Atom and MediaTek and HiSilicon or whatever they are called. Today, outside of Apple's half win, very few high volume wins. ARMH's Mali became the defacto GPU to license on ARM SoCs while Intel went with their own custom solution in Atoms. They went from a fairly large position in the market to now a niche of niche scraping by after Apple drops them. The CEO blew it and he should get all of the blame. Maybe the CTO should get some of the blame, but the buck stops at the CEO, right?
Somewhere, the licensing situation between Mali and PowerVR switched 180. Maybe Imagination Tech was asking for too much. Or maybe ARMH was giving a combo deal for CPU+GPU licensing. Who knows. It's hard to ignore their fortunes crumbling as soon as Mali became viable.
I'd argue convenience for ARM + Mali design. Probably wasn't enough performance benefit for using PowerVR over Mali. Those with an ARM architectural license would like to customize or roll their own GPU, so their wasn't a whole lot of market left for Imagination Technologies after Apple moved on.
I'm very much suspicious that Imagine Tech's CEO thought he was hot shit and overplayed his hand. He wanted too much for what PowerVR was offering. If Vivante could survive as a 3rd party GPU vendor for ARM SoC, what's wrong with Imagine Tech? The rumor is that Apple was able to hire low tens (25?) of Imagine Tech engineers. They are a small company. 25 engineers could have been half their engineering force. That doesn't happen unless Imagine Tech was a crummy place to work for.
Buying MIPS now seems like a CEO ego driven panic buy after they figured out Apple was going to go custom GPU. Apple going custom GPU should have been something they should have been suspicious of as soon as the A6 SoC came out. Apple will produce custom LTE modems too. I digress. In what way did Imagine Tech think they could carve out a niche using a non-ARM SoC? Really. What additional value over ARM SoCs would MIPS have given? They would have been better off going the 3rd party ARM SoC route like MediaTek (Helio SoCs) or HiSilicon (Kirin SoCs). At least then, they could have laid claim to having the SoC with the best GPU in the market, and maybe compute with Nvidia in the automotive space or sell tens of million of licenses in China.
But, I don't think they would have been able to do it as the CEO didn't seem to know what he was doing.
Apple had bought two small GPU design companies over the years, and has a number of their own patents they had gotten besides whatever those companies had. If Apple spoke to them in 2015, it means they must have had enough IP to know where they were going with this, and had some inkling of when it might happen. The more specific times they gave them since, is just a refinement of that timeline.
going to the reviews in Anandtech of Apple’s iOS products for the past two years, at least, shows Anandtech being suspicious that there is Apple IP in the GPU, as what they see doesn’t exactly match up with Imagination’s IP. So we’re likely seeing some of Apple’s work in present products. If, as Apple says, they haven’t been taking any new Imagination IP since 2015, that’s really a big deal, because the question becomes - what is in their GPU?
Do you know the names of the two small GPU design companies Apple has bought?
Edited at 5:47 PM EST to remove 's' from Apple. :-)))
I’m lucky to remember my own name, much less names from years previously.
I'm trying to find this info, but it’s difficult, as it goes back years. But for now, I did find this article from 2013, that shows Apple was hiring and deploying GPU engineers in a GPU group. I’ll keep looking as I find time.
Notice that as you get further along in the article that he says that Apple already has components of their own for the GPU, and have been substituting them for the Imagination parts. As it takes years to get to this point, the article from 2013, about the hires, which mentions that they are joining a GPU group that Apple ALREADY HAD, shows that Apple had been working on GPU IP since before 2013. Kanter is well known, by the way.
there are tweets from Apple people about hiring GPU people going back to 2012, but I can’t get the entire thing here.
Apple had bought two small GPU design companies over the years, and has a number of their own patents they had gotten besides whatever those companies had. If Apple spoke to them in 2015, it means they must have had enough IP to know where they were going with this, and had some inkling of when it might happen. The more specific times they gave them since, is just a refinement of that timeline.
going to the reviews in Anandtech of Apple’s iOS products for the past two years, at least, shows Anandtech being suspicious that there is Apple IP in the GPU, as what they see doesn’t exactly match up with Imagination’s IP. So we’re likely seeing some of Apple’s work in present products. If, as Apple says, they haven’t been taking any new Imagination IP since 2015, that’s really a big deal, because the question becomes - what is in their GPU?
Do you know the names of the two small GPU design companies Apple has bought?
Edited at 5:47 PM EST to remove 's' from Apple. :-)))
I'm only aware of one graphics hardware company; Raycer Graphics purchased in 1999.
Thank you! After learning the Raycer Graphics name, I did a DDG search and discovered Bob Mansfield was Vice President of Engineering at Raycer. Learning this information was a "nuclear bomb" moment! The one question that struck me was, "What if Bob Mansfield returned to Apple to finish a GPU instead of a car?" If the answer to my question is, "Bob returned for a GPU", then a lot of the rumors about Project Titan are wrong, wrong, wrong!!
Ah ha. That sounds right. There’s one more that they bought in the 2000’s, but I can’t find that.
Apple had bought two small GPU design companies over the years, and has a number of their own patents they had gotten besides whatever those companies had. If Apple spoke to them in 2015, it means they must have had enough IP to know where they were going with this, and had some inkling of when it might happen. The more specific times they gave them since, is just a refinement of that timeline.
going to the reviews in Anandtech of Apple’s iOS products for the past two years, at least, shows Anandtech being suspicious that there is Apple IP in the GPU, as what they see doesn’t exactly match up with Imagination’s IP. So we’re likely seeing some of Apple’s work in present products. If, as Apple says, they haven’t been taking any new Imagination IP since 2015, that’s really a big deal, because the question becomes - what is in their GPU?
Apple used its own 'Imagination' and miniaturized some Disney technology that was shared.
Apple had bought two small GPU design companies over the years, and has a number of their own patents they had gotten besides whatever those companies had. If Apple spoke to them in 2015, it means they must have had enough IP to know where they were going with this, and had some inkling of when it might happen. The more specific times they gave them since, is just a refinement of that timeline.
going to the reviews in Anandtech of Apple’s iOS products for the past two years, at least, shows Anandtech being suspicious that there is Apple IP in the GPU, as what they see doesn’t exactly match up with Imagination’s IP. So we’re likely seeing some of Apple’s work in present products. If, as Apple says, they haven’t been taking any new Imagination IP since 2015, that’s really a big deal, because the question becomes - what is in their GPU?
Apple used its own 'Imagination' and miniaturized some Disney technology that was shared.
Oh man, that’s one of my favorite exhibits! I even like the song they use. What was that about again? Oh yeah, imagination.
If Apple no longer needs Imagination's IP why would they be in talks to acquire the company?
If Apple was able to acquire the company they can get the company to design specifically for them, which is clearly what Apple needs moving forward with machine learning and AR.
Based on Apple's public statement that they have no plans to make an offer for Imagination it's clear how they'll approach this. Rather than acquire the company they're taking the cheaper route and acquiring the best of their engineering talent. Apple has very recently opened a new graphics processing unit design office just a couple of blocks from Imaginations offices in St. Alban's, effectively putting up a "Now Hiring" banner in front of their employees.
Comments
Edited at 5:47 PM EST to remove 's' from Apple. :-)))
A Look Inside Apple’s Custom GPU for the iPhone David Kanter
Note, Applieinsider is actually referenced in the article. Mike Wuerthele by name!
Quotes:
Looks like Apple is now going for the 3rd option mentioned. This article was published on Oct 25, 2016. Kantar knows computer architecture better than 99.9999% (not sure I've used enough 9s) of the people commenting on the Internet.
I can't see how Imagination Tech turns out well at all in this imbroglio. There's no ifs ands or buts, they knew that Apple was moving away from PowerVR for at least 18 to 24 months now. At least. It should have been all hands on deck for Imagination Tech as soon as they saw the A8 SoC and the resultant reduction in IP fees from Apple. Maybe they did, but they didn't get anywhere and the MIPS buy probably divided their attention.
In the end, Imagination Tech's CEO blew it. PowerVR used to ship on Samsung Exynos, Intel Atom and MediaTek and HiSilicon or whatever they are called. Today, outside of Apple's half win, very few high volume wins. ARMH's Mali became the defacto GPU to license on ARM SoCs while Intel went with their own custom solution in Atoms. They went from a fairly large position in the market to now a niche of niche scraping by after Apple drops them. The CEO blew it and he should get all of the blame. Maybe the CTO should get some of the blame, but the buck stops at the CEO, right?
Somewhere, the licensing situation between Mali and PowerVR switched 180. Maybe Imagination Tech was asking for too much. Or maybe ARMH was giving a combo deal for CPU+GPU licensing. Who knows. It's hard to ignore their fortunes crumbling as soon as Mali became viable.
truthfully, it’s difficult to evaluate the worth of IP. There are different measures with which to do that. Apple paid a high of $85 million in one year in licensing fees. Is that the worth, one year in fees? Is it worth multiple years in fees? How do each year’s fees get determined? After all, new IP will be developed, and older IP will be devalued, and later unused. The new IP owes something to past IP, but less as time goes on. If Apple is, as they said, moving in a new direction, that IP would be worth even less.
its why Apple didn’t buy the company a long time ago when they were worth less. It’s cheaper to let them do the work, and then license it. Additionally, if Apple sees IP somewhere else that it thinks more appropriate, it can change suppliers easily. Not so when you’re doing you’re own work.
I can see why Apple now wants to do this on their own. They’ve built up a massive chip team. They’re producing specialized chips for iOS and macOS machines. What else is left that could make a major improvement in the line? Well, the GPU, of course.
and here we go.
the second biggest customer, which I never see mentioned, is Intel. Intel still owns, or did last I checked, about 10% of Imagination. Intel’s IG (Integrated Graphics) uses, at least in part, Imagination’s IP. So, we might as well ask why Intel doesn’t buy them.
when I go to reply, sometimes I can’t get the keyboard to call up. When I can, after that problem, the cursor shows up in the comment I’m replying to, rather than the reply area at the bottom. That just happened, so I’m writing this.
mike, do you have any idea of bugs in the site forum software that could be the cause of any of this? The cursor problem just showed up in 11. I’m not having these problems anywhere else.
they've been trying all right. But it’s been a hard road. There are several other GPU designs out there, including those from ARM itself. Qualcomm has designs, etc. It’s probably cheaper to license the GPU from the chip maker, or from ARM if you’re producing a reference design, then to go for a third party. It’s likely also much easier, as you don’t need to do as much design work yourself to get everything working together.
imagination has bought other companies, such as MIPS, to get further into SoC design work, but it hasn’t gone as well as they thought.
Mansfield is well above engineering level these days. He's a computer hardware manager now. Cars are becoming computers too.
I'm very much suspicious that Imagine Tech's CEO thought he was hot shit and overplayed his hand. He wanted too much for what PowerVR was offering. If Vivante could survive as a 3rd party GPU vendor for ARM SoC, what's wrong with Imagine Tech? The rumor is that Apple was able to hire low tens (25?) of Imagine Tech engineers. They are a small company. 25 engineers could have been half their engineering force. That doesn't happen unless Imagine Tech was a crummy place to work for.
Buying MIPS now seems like a CEO ego driven panic buy after they figured out Apple was going to go custom GPU. Apple going custom GPU should have been something they should have been suspicious of as soon as the A6 SoC came out. Apple will produce custom LTE modems too. I digress. In what way did Imagine Tech think they could carve out a niche using a non-ARM SoC? Really. What additional value over ARM SoCs would MIPS have given? They would have been better off going the 3rd party ARM SoC route like MediaTek (Helio SoCs) or HiSilicon (Kirin SoCs). At least then, they could have laid claim to having the SoC with the best GPU in the market, and maybe compute with Nvidia in the automotive space or sell tens of million of licenses in China.
But, I don't think they would have been able to do it as the CEO didn't seem to know what he was doing.
I'm trying to find this info, but it’s difficult, as it goes back years. But for now, I did find this article from 2013, that shows Apple was hiring and deploying GPU engineers in a GPU group. I’ll keep looking as I find time.
https://www.bit-tech.net/news/apple-gpu/1/
There is also this, and don’t worry about any warnings about the site, it’s perfectly fine if you do see them. I’ve verified it already.
https://www.fonow.com/view/182263.html
Notice that as you get further along in the article that he says that Apple already has components of their own for the GPU, and have been substituting them for the Imagination parts. As it takes years to get to this point, the article from 2013, about the hires, which mentions that they are joining a GPU group that Apple ALREADY HAD, shows that Apple had been working on GPU IP since before 2013. Kanter is well known, by the way.
there are tweets from Apple people about hiring GPU people going back to 2012, but I can’t get the entire thing here.
still looking.
http://www.domain-b.com/companies/companies_a/Apple/20160929_graphics.html
paints a picture that possibly Apple could be getting some IP from Nvidia.
Possibly?
https://hothardware.com/news/nvidia-white-paper-projects-mcm-gpu-future-will-outrun-moores-law
and, back to 2013 again. It seems people were convinced back then that an Apple GPU was inevitable. That’s five years ago people! Plenty of time.
https://www.aol.com/article/finance/2013/11/18/why-is-apple-building-its-own-graphics-chip/20770898/