Report highlights 3D facial recognition, camera tech as Apple's original efforts in 'iPhon...

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in iPhone
While there are many anticipated features for this fall's "iPhone 8," only a handful of them will actually be novel within the smartphone world, a report pointed out on Tuesday.




The centerpiece is a 3D facial recognition system, which should replace Touch ID for both Apple Pay and unlocking the phone, Bloomberg wrote. An infrared sensor should allow recognition even in the dark.

Other innovations are said to include vertically-mounted rear cameras configured for augmented reality, and "SmartCam" technology, able to identify objects and scenes on the fly, presumably for better photography.

Other devices -- like the Samsung Galaxy S8 and Essential Phone -- are already using edge-to-edge displays with virtual home buttons, and both OLED screens and inductive wireless charging have appeared on phones dating as far back as 2009. "Tap to wake" has been in Android products for years.

Bloomberg suggested that Apple's work at perfecting features will be the "iPhone 8's" distinguishing factor. Instead of just a home button and other basic controls, for instance, the phone may have a more advanced virtual control area.

Apple may not enter mass production until mid-September, which could leave very few units available that month, assuming the phone doesn't launch in October or November instead of Apple's usual timeframe. In the meantime the company is expected to ship the "iPhone 7s" and "7s Plus," which should use 4.7- and 5.5-inch LCDs like their predecessors, but with some "8" upgrades like wireless charging.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 24
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,963member
    But but but people said it wouldn't work in the dark!
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 24
    Thanks for the weekly update of the same story.
    SnickersMagoodoozydozenRacerhomieX
  • Reply 3 of 24
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    Thanks for the weekly update of the same story.
    Starting to feel a bit pathetic!    All the guestimation about ship dates is very tiring.   
  • Reply 4 of 24
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    I have no idea how IT pundits get any job satisfaction: read an article, think of six words, publish same article + six words…

    It must be soul-destroying.  
    edited August 2017 doozydozenpscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 24
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,655member
    So what happens to the banking and other apps that use fingerprints to access?  This is what pisses developers off.  Apple adopts a technology and then arbitrarily drops it.  That leads to a lack of trust in Apple and an unwillingness to invest.  

    That all assumes they're dropping Touch ID, which I still doubt. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 24
    I just cannot seem to figure out how Face ID will work with Shades, Hats, Beards,....When a simple finger touch does the trick.....It's got to work in milliseconds or it will be a PITA!!!
  • Reply 7 of 24
    zoetmb said:
    So what happens to the banking and other apps that use fingerprints to access?  This is what pisses developers off.  Apple adopts a technology and then arbitrarily drops it.  That leads to a lack of trust in Apple and an unwillingness to invest.  

    That all assumes they're dropping Touch ID, which I still doubt. 
    If Apple switches to face identification it will likely take little effort on a developers part to switch from TouchID, if any.  The bank and other apps that utilize TouchID aren't really accessing the sensor or verifying any fingerprints, they're getting confirmation from the Secure Enclave that the person authenticating is the authorized person.  I think any face identification method would just take over those duties.
    StrangeDaysdoozydozenfastasleeppscooter63RacerhomieXtmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 24
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,963member
    zoetmb said:
    So what happens to the banking and other apps that use fingerprints to access?  This is what pisses developers off.  Apple adopts a technology and then arbitrarily drops it.  That leads to a lack of trust in Apple and an unwillingness to invest.  

    That all assumes they're dropping Touch ID, which I still doubt. 
    This is nonsense. Touch ID code will remain for Touch ID devices. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Apple APIs for biometric authentication abstract away the actual device-level details of how authentication was performed on the particular device, since thats how well designed software works. 

    To claim this is what pisses devs off tells me you’re not a developer and just want to fit the facts to your narrative. 
    edited August 2017 fastasleepRacerhomieXtmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 24
    zoetmb said:
    That all assumes they're dropping Touch ID, which I still doubt. 
    This year Apple will release iPhone 7s and 7s Plus, next spring an updated SE and possibly more MacBooks all featuring Touch ID. STOP ASSUMING FOR STUPID REASONS Apple is dropping Touch ID this Fall.
    Your shit logic makes me think you're a troll just trolling to annoy people and illicit responses, just like mine.
    edited August 2017 fastasleep2old4funRacerhomieXtmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 10 of 24
    zoetmb said:
    So what happens to the banking and other apps that use fingerprints to access?  This is what pisses developers off.  Apple adopts a technology and then arbitrarily drops it.  That leads to a lack of trust in Apple and an unwillingness to invest.  

    That all assumes they're dropping Touch ID, which I still doubt. 
    How have you not figured this out yet?

    Touch ID and Face ID will be one-in-the-same for the BioAPI. Any app that supports Touch ID will support Face ID out of the box. What developers will have to do is spend time reworking their UI assets that reference Touch ID. But that won't get in the way of users' w/ iPhone 8 and Face ID on day one.

    Oh, and fuck developers if they don't want to keep up with new technology.
    fastasleep2old4funtmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 24
    zoetmb said:
    That all assumes they're dropping Touch ID, which I still doubt. 
    This year Apple will release iPhone 7s and 7s Plus, next spring an updated SE and possibly more MacBooks all featuring Touch ID. STOP ASSUMING FOR STUPID REASONS Apple is dropping Touch ID this Fall.
    This year Apple is releasing the 7s and 7s Plus with inductive charging and Touch ID, along with iPhone "x" yet-to-be named with a host of new technologies, including Face ID, a replacement for Touch ID. 

    The new iPhone was designed from the ground up without a Home Button, or Touch ID. If you don't know this by now, you haven't been paying attention.
    2old4funtmay
  • Reply 12 of 24
    I just cannot seem to figure out how Face ID will work with Shades, Hats, Beards,....When a simple finger touch does the trick.....It's got to work in milliseconds or it will be a PITA!!!
    You said it yourself. It has to work. If it didn't work, it wouldn't be about to replace Touch ID on the flagship iPhone next month. But it does work, so it is going to.

    Face ID is going to use hundreds, possibly thousands of unique data points from your head, and it will continue to learn (just like Touch ID does) with each new successful scan. Things like glasses, beards, hats are a drop in the bucket. Even a full ski mask wouldn't be enough to trick it since it will still be comparison measurements and dimensions that you can't hide.

    This level of detail and sophistication is (clearly) way beyond the thought capacity of people.

    fastasleep2old4funStrangeDays
  • Reply 13 of 24
    lets be sophisticated here ppl. Face ID in addition to in addition to T-ID thats it. has to be. how can this work w/ apple pay etc? 7s frag. not gonna happen w/o t-id. BMan out
  • Reply 14 of 24
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,963member
    lets be sophisticated here ppl. Face ID in addition to in addition to T-ID thats it. has to be. how can this work w/ apple pay etc? 7s frag. not gonna happen w/o t-id. BMan out
    Nope. There is nothing special to Apple Pay that requires a fingerprint biometric authentication over a face biometric authentication. The banks and merchants don’t have any involvement in that and only know that they were given a credit card payment token to authorize against, issued by the device which met its own requirements for authenticating the user of the device. 

    This is the principle of software abstraction, or “separation of duties”.
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 24
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,441member
    sog35 said:
    I just cannot seem to figure out how Face ID will work with Shades, Hats, Beards,....When a simple finger touch does the trick.....It's got to work in milliseconds or it will be a PITA!!!
    You said it yourself. It has to work. If it didn't work, it wouldn't be about to replace Touch ID on the flagship iPhone next month. But it does work, so it is going to.

    Face ID is going to use hundreds, possibly thousands of unique data points from your head, and it will continue to learn (just like Touch ID does) with each new successful scan. Things like glasses, beards, hats are a drop in the bucket. Even a full ski mask wouldn't be enough to trick it since it will still be comparison measurements and dimensions that you can't hide.

    This level of detail and sophistication is (clearly) way beyond the thought capacity of people.

    I don't understand why you are so against having both FaceID and TouchID
    "why you are so against having FaceID and TouchId?.

    For the same reason that there aren't corded, wireless headphones from Apple, or anyone else for that matter; one obsoletes the other.


  • Reply 16 of 24
    jd_in_sbjd_in_sb Posts: 1,600member
    zoetmb said:
    That all assumes they're dropping Touch ID, which I still doubt. 
    This year Apple will release iPhone 7s and 7s Plus, next spring an updated SE and possibly more MacBooks all featuring Touch ID. STOP ASSUMING FOR STUPID REASONS Apple is dropping Touch ID this Fall.
    Your shit logic makes me think you're a troll just trolling to annoy people and illicit responses, just like mine.
    Your swearing is as bad as trolling. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 24
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,389member
    I just cannot seem to figure out how Face ID will work with Shades, Hats, Beards,....When a simple finger touch does the trick.....It's got to work in milliseconds or it will be a PITA!!!
    How TID prevents you from figuring out how FID will work puzzles me.

    Regardless, TID needs to be trained to recognize you as the owner. FID would need the same training. I don't see why it couldn't be trained to recognize you with shades, hats, and beards, etc. None of these separately, would be enough to fool sophisticated FID systems. Would Apple be up to the task? And most users wouldn't use all three and expect FID to work. Or shouldn't anyway. In this respect FID might train them.


  • Reply 18 of 24
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,389member

    The new iPhone was designed from the ground up without a Home Button, or Touch ID. If you don't know this by now, you haven't been paying attention.
    Paying attention to who? Analysts? Leakers? While you may be guessing correctly, I don't see how you can support that as a certainty.
  • Reply 19 of 24
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,389member
    tmay said:
    For the same reason that there aren't corded, wireless headphones from Apple, or anyone else for that matter; one obsoletes the other.
    Really? At this point it's pure supposition, in the context of Apple's implementation., which we haven't seen as yet.

    It wouldn't bother me if Apple did both, but from an economic standpoint, Apple wouldn't bother. If FID is up to the task, they'd drop TID. Space and money would dictate.

    I like TID but it's been a little problematic for me on my 5s. I haven't used anything later so the newer sensor might have eliminated that. Performance is better on my iPad Air 2 but I think the sensors are the same, but don't know.

    On occasion just activating the Home button to see the Lock Screen has unlocked my phone seamlessly. Sometimes there's been a delay. Also one digit doesn't seem to work reliably after a short time. Repeated training hasn't helped. Still I like the deliberate action required to unlock the phone.

    FID could/may in fact be more reliable. I wonder how discerning it will be about incidental unlocking. The Apple Watch is designed to activate its display with a certain movement. But it lights up when not needed, with random movement. (This is why Apple included the Theater mode). Would the same occur with an iPhone using FID? I hope not. At this point I don't even know if there will be FID or the absence of TID.


    edited August 2017
  • Reply 20 of 24
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,389member

    sog35 said:
    I 100% guarantee the new iPhone will have TouchID
    An absolutely worthless guarantee, but I admire your confidence, and somewhat your bravado.
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