Ditching Touch ID in 'iPhone 8' wasn't Apple's first choice, was forced by technical restr...

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 45
    Yeah, I don't believe it. "Face unlock" might be an additional level of security, but it sure as heck won't replace Touch ID.
    beowulfschmidt
  • Reply 22 of 45
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 4,053member
    sog35 said:
    This is bullshit.

    Even if touch ID was possible behind the glass, that would still be dumb.

    Its like having a virtual click wheel on the iPhone just like the iPod.

    The home button is dead.  Its been 10 years.  Its time for something new.
    No one gives the shit about Home button. We're talking about Touch ID. It happens that the Touch ID was build under the Home button but doesn't mean Touch ID is a Home button.
    fastasleepboltsfan17libertykrsbobby88waverboynetmage
  • Reply 23 of 45
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    sog35 said:
    This is bullshit.

    Even if touch ID was possible behind the glass, that would still be dumb.

    Its like having a virtual click wheel on the iPhone just like the iPod.

    The home button is dead.  Its been 10 years.  Its time for something new.
    The best selling models since ten years are "dead" ? You dismiss all iPhone history in one stroke by defining hundreds of millions of iPhones sold to date "dead" !!! Good luck with your stock gambling.
    Just block him.
    SpamSandwichwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 45
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    This is bullshit.

    Even if touch ID was possible behind the glass, that would still be dumb.

    Its like having a virtual click wheel on the iPhone just like the iPod.

    The home button is dead.  Its been 10 years.  Its time for something new.
    The best selling models since ten years are "dead" ? You dismiss all iPhone history in one stroke by defining hundreds of millions of iPhones sold to date "dead" !!! Good luck with your stock gambling.
    its called progress.

    Do you want your iphone to have a rotary dial? 
    Remember "can't innovate, my ass"? We saw how that "innovation" ended up. I sincerely believe that that was truly an innovation, thermal core, highly parallel double GPU. Those were true innovation. It just didn't sell.

    What they have to learn after Steve Jobs is that innovation is not enough to convert to sales. True progress is the one that sells. No one would give a shit to a progress that doesn't sell. The most innovative are Chinese now. But they have a long journey to learn how to convert those innovations to business success.
  • Reply 25 of 45

    I believe we will continue to have Touch ID in the new iPhone.  Think about Apple Pay.  How would that process work?  Standing at the register:  Step 1)  Hold phone near credit card reader to initiate Apple Pay payment, Step 2)  Hold phone to face for facial recognition, Step 3)  Hold phone back to credit card reader to confirm identify was verified, Step 4)  Payment is processed.

    There is no way Apple will allow this.  It's way too complicated and not a good user experience, plus, Apple customers will look like idiots moving their phone all around at the register.  That will be worse than when people say "do I swipe or is it the chip?"  Touch ID will be part of all new iPhones this year.

  • Reply 26 of 45
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    This is bullshit.

    Even if touch ID was possible behind the glass, that would still be dumb.

    Its like having a virtual click wheel on the iPhone just like the iPod.

    The home button is dead.  Its been 10 years.  Its time for something new.
    The best selling models since ten years are "dead" ? You dismiss all iPhone history in one stroke by defining hundreds of millions of iPhones sold to date "dead" !!! Good luck with your stock gambling.
    its called progress.

    Do you want your iphone to have a rotary dial? 
    Remember "can't innovate, my ass"? We saw how that "innovation" ended up. I sincerely believe that that was truly an innovation, thermal core, highly parallel double GPU. Those were true innovation. It just didn't sell.

    What they have to learn after Steve Jobs is that innovation is not enough to convert to sales. True progress is the one that sells. No one would give a shit to a progress that doesn't sell. The most innovative are Chinese now. But they have a long journey to learn how to convert those innovations to business success.
    I may be taking your comment out of context, but I would not equate innovation (or "true progress") to sales. I think innovation should be measured by gauging how much you "move the needle." That is, how much change you create.
    netmage
  • Reply 27 of 45
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,243member
    sog35 said:
    sog35 said:
    This is bullshit.

    Even if touch ID was possible behind the glass, that would still be dumb.

    Its like having a virtual click wheel on the iPhone just like the iPod.

    The home button is dead.  Its been 10 years.  Its time for something new.
    The best selling models since ten years are "dead" ? You dismiss all iPhone history in one stroke by defining hundreds of millions of iPhones sold to date "dead" !!! Good luck with your stock gambling.
    its called progress.

    Do you want your iphone to have a rotary dial? 
    Remember "can't innovate, my ass"? We saw how that "innovation" ended up. I sincerely believe that that was truly an innovation, thermal core, highly parallel double GPU. Those were true innovation. It just didn't sell.

    What they have to learn after Steve Jobs is that innovation is not enough to convert to sales. True progress is the one that sells. No one would give a shit to a progress that doesn't sell. The most innovative are Chinese now. But they have a long journey to learn how to convert those innovations to business success.
    I may be taking your comment out of context, but I would not equate innovation (or "true progress") to sales. I think innovation should be measured by gauging how much you "move the needle." That is, how much change you create.
    The process of translating an idea or invention into a good or service that creates value or for which customers will pay.

    Read more: http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/innovation.html
  • Reply 28 of 45
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,088member
    TouchID is such an important factor in security for the iPhone that I find it really difficult to believe that Apple ditched it for the iP8 (or whatever it's called).

    I'd rather Apple bring back the home button than ditch it.  Does that mean there's a different way of authentication ApplePay transactions?

  • Reply 29 of 45
    It's funny how there have been so many articles going back and forth between release times, yet in the end it seems like there will be a very sensible, slightly staggered release. In typical Apple fashion, the perception of the product is an essential component, and so the way it's presented is hugely significant. Apple can't just release three phones at the same time; that'd be too confusing for people. There needs to be the comfortable status quo launch, then this extra thing that's also an option if you've thought it through enough to want it. If Apple didn't make an effort to distinctly separate the iPhone Pro/X (it's not going to be called Edition), then the geniuses in the main stream media and typical tech bloggers will just neglect the 7s/7s+ and brush off the iPhone Pro/X as 'Apple just wants you to buy the more expensive version' and they'll just focus on whining and hand-wringing over the changes (e.g. lack of touch ID, too delicate, needs more bezel, etc etc).
  • Reply 30 of 45
    Regarding the possible absence of touch ID, I think it was someone else here on AI that pointed out that Apple's camera scanning in iOS 11 Notes works very well, even at an angle, even with just a basic camera. Add dual IR sensor depth mapping to that and it isn't hard to see how face recognition has the potential to be even more convenient and reliable than touch ID:

    -Can use with gloves on
    -Easier to use when placed in a dock (esp vs the option of having fingerprint ID on the back).
    -With accelerator-triggered scanning you wouldn't even need to press a button, just lift the phone up and it's unlocked.
    -No need to adjust your grip to activate touch ID when logging into apps or authorizing payments.
    -If reliable, it seems like it'd be a lot harder to spoof than touch ID (which of course is already very secure, and hasn't been given the credit its due, for example: purchase limits, need for additional signing at registers, etc).

    Edit: just listened to grubers latest podcast, and I'm even more confident now with this assessment. 
    edited September 2017 netmage
  • Reply 31 of 45
    @Sog35: That assumes quite a few things. First off, while I am certainly not married to TouchID, a facial recognition system has tons of issues. The biggest of which is that I often need to unlock my phone when I am not looking at it or when my face is out of range of the camera. Examples include when I need to access my phone under a conference table discreetly at a meeting, or when I need to change songs when I am driving. Additionally, there might be issues (we'll see how it functions in practice) using facial recognition at night -- and I use my iPhone for reading at night and for sending out middle-of-the-night work e-mails. The TouchID home button had two things going for it: 1) You could find it by touch even when you weren't looking at the phone and/or the room was dark; and 2) You could unlock your phone without looking at it and without entering a password. Unless the new iPhone 8 has both of these capabilities, for my uses, it will be a step backward.
    netmagelikethesky
  • Reply 32 of 45
    sflocal said:
    Does that mean there's a different way of authentication ApplePay transactions?

    I think you can absolutely guarantee that.  If they have done away with TouchID, Apple Pay would not be practical unless there was something equally secure and very convenient.

    I'm intrigued by the rumours that Apple's forthcoming 3D facial recognition is incredibly fast.  There would be no need to be blindingly fast if all it needs to do is to look at a face and check if it looks like you. I suspect that the amazing speed is a fundamental requirement for it's intended purpose. It could be that it needs to see a user's face while they do something specific and dynamic, like speaking or mouthing a password or maybe making a complex gesture such as drawing a symbol in the air.
  • Reply 33 of 45
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    alanaudio said:
    sflocal said:
    Does that mean there's a different way of authentication ApplePay transactions?

    I think you can absolutely guarantee that.  If they have done away with TouchID, Apple Pay would not be practical unless there was something equally secure and very convenient.

    I'm intrigued by the rumours that Apple's forthcoming 3D facial recognition is incredibly fast.  There would be no need to be blindingly fast if all it needs to do is to look at a face and check if it looks like you. I suspect that the amazing speed is a fundamental requirement for it's intended purpose. It could be that it needs to see a user's face while they do something specific and dynamic, like speaking or mouthing a password or maybe making a complex gesture such as drawing a symbol in the air.
    Anything that requires its user to look weird in public is an immediate fail. 
    netmage
  • Reply 34 of 45
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member
    Blunt said:
    Am i the only one who is sick and tired of all these reports?
    Wrong website for you then. 
    gatorguynetmage
  • Reply 35 of 45
    I know this is undoubtably wishful thinking, but I REALLY hope that Apple on Tuesday will reveal that not only is the disturbing notch design at the top of the phone a hoax, but also that Touch-ID is in fact integrated directly in the screen. That - in my mind - is the phone that Jobs envisioned when he presented the first iPhone in 2007. I'm worried however, that as usual all the rumours we have seen are true .. hardly any surprises left anymore when the keynotes take place, which is a bit sad.
  • Reply 36 of 45
    Yeah, I don't believe it. "Face unlock" might be an additional level of security, but it sure as heck won't replace Touch ID.
    Agreed.  Despite all the rumors, I have yet to be convinced that Touch ID is going away.  I'm prepared to be wrong, like I have been before, but I'll be surprised if it's just gone.
  • Reply 37 of 45
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,074member

    Remember "can't innovate, my ass"? We saw how that "innovation" ended up. I sincerely believe that that was truly an innovation, thermal core, highly parallel double GPU. Those were true innovation. It just didn't sell.


    The real problem with the Mac Pro was that they didn't keep it up to date and their innovation didn't keep up with the rest of the PC word in terms of processing power.

    Hopefully they will come up with something more "Future Proof" with the next Mac Pro in 2019.
  • Reply 38 of 45
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 2,074member
    sog35 said:
    This is bullshit.

    Even if touch ID was possible behind the glass, that would still be dumb.

    Its like having a virtual click wheel on the iPhone just like the iPod.

    The home button is dead.  Its been 10 years.  Its time for something new.
    Of course they wanted to do finger print recognition through the phone. There were rumors here on AI for at least two years that they were working on it. I think it was expected or wanted last year. That's part of why the design of the iPhone 7 didn't change much from the iPhone 6/6S design. FaceID may be great or users may be disappointed that there is no TouchID button. (I know I don't want my phone watching my every move like big brother) . If they get it working next year it will be offered as a new feature on the iPhonePro2 and I'm sure you will celebrate it.
    markiezyy said:
    "users will unlock the phone using either an old-fashioned password or what is expected to be a new facial-recognition feature" Wow this is so pathetic. I wasn't a fan of the touch ID on the back but i'd prefer that over not having it at all.

    I think that touch ID built into the Logo on the back would be fine. So much better than the crappy way Samsung put it right next to the Camera (Total Fail).
  • Reply 39 of 45
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Yeah, I don't believe it. "Face unlock" might be an additional level of security, but it sure as heck won't replace Touch ID.
    Agreed.  Despite all the rumors, I have yet to be convinced that Touch ID is going away.  I'm prepared to be wrong, like I have been before, but I'll be surprised if it's just gone.
    Folks here claiming that TouchId is gone studiously ignores answering why the power button is larger now and why they assume TouchId is gone when Apple just got a patent for putting the TouchId...in the power button.

  • Reply 40 of 45
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,454member
    alanaudio said:
    sflocal said:
    Does that mean there's a different way of authentication ApplePay transactions?

    I think you can absolutely guarantee that.  If they have done away with TouchID, Apple Pay would not be practical unless there was something equally secure and very convenient.

    I'm intrigued by the rumours that Apple's forthcoming 3D facial recognition is incredibly fast.  There would be no need to be blindingly fast if all it needs to do is to look at a face and check if it looks like you. I suspect that the amazing speed is a fundamental requirement for it's intended purpose. It could be that it needs to see a user's face while they do something specific and dynamic, like speaking or mouthing a password or maybe making a complex gesture such as drawing a symbol in the air.
    Not only secure, and convenient, but also reliable -- extremely reliable. Touch ID works perfectly 98% of the time for me. If it didn't I'm not sure how much I would use it.

    That's one of the reasons why Apple Pay can be frustrating -- not so much Touch ID, but the POST, which can be unreliable requiring multiple attempts to get it to accept the transaction. There's nothing worse than trying to get Apple Pay to work for a minute or two, holding up the check out line, trying different fingers and phone positions, not knowing what's at fault, only to have to whip out a credit card as the clerk tells you they don't know what's wrong, and it usually works. If Touch ID worked like that, I wouldn't use it. If they take away Touch ID and the new paradigm doesn't work as well, it could be a non-starter for many.
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