According to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, Android hardware makers have turned their attention away from under-display fingerprint readers and toward 3D sensing technologies like those Apple debuted with iPhone X, a flip-flop designed to capture customer sentiment.
This guys notes get more ridiculous every day. Just a bunch of gibberish. Where is the customer sentiment for 3D sensing? Most consumers haven’t used Face ID yet and AR is in its infancy. Nobody knows yet if this is going to be the next big thing everyone has to have.
He and most everyone else who saw the keynote (consumers and OEMs) are predicting FaceID (instant secure unlock) and the technology that enables it, will be a commercial success. As Steve Jobs said “skate to where the puck is going.” You’re going to bust his balls for pointing this out, when we’re all assuming this to be the case? That’s ridiculous.
So how long will it be until retail purchases will be made with some form of 3D sensing? Do you really want credit card, banks and corporations to have a 3D image of your face on record? I have a iPhone 6s and don't plan on replacing for years to come unless it is lost or damaged. I assume iOS for iPhone X and those to follow will still allow for passcode verification.
It works now. Face ID works in place of Touch ID for Apple Pay, and any apps that allow authentication with Touch ID. In both cases, no one (merchant, bank, Apple or otherwise) gets either access to your finger print or face - these stay on your phone. Think of your of finger or face as a device specific pin, like your passcode. When the transaction is initiated the service confirms a accurate pin is entered (which remains hidden and local to the device) and the transaction occurs.
Hardly any whining about the Google Pixel 2 missing the audio jack.
I agree with most of your statements and all of your general sentiment, but one point of content I have is the whining about the Pixel 2. I've seen a lot of bemoaning over its loss. While Google's HW sales isn't even in the same ballpark as Apple, they do have plenty of mindshare.
This is the problem that Apple runs into all the time, standards that are out of date, solves it with their own particular mix of, well everything, and then media complains about "fragmentation" because Apple has created a new defacto standard, or worse, new device category. Obviously, Google wants to be able to capitalize on their own standards creation, but to do that, they are going to have to cut the lifeline to "vanilla" Android OS. I hope that Google does that!
Don't make me list all of the examples of obsolete standards that Apple has "murdered" simply because they added nothing to Apple devices
Okay, one.
FM radios.
If it was such a big deal, Google would have said something about it during the announcement of the Pixel 2, when it would have been easy to take a cheap shot at Apple. They didn't. Nobody gives a shit about FM radio anymore. Heck, I don't even know if the Pixel 2 has a working FM radio at all. It surely can't use an earphone as an antenna.
The R&D action in authentication is going to be shrinking the components of Face ID down to where they fit in wearables, and evolving it to be more robust; this is obvious. This is just as true for Android OS.
Fingerprint ID isn't dead, but it's not a path to the future.
it'd make a lot more sense to put face id in the macbooks. then they can get rid of the shiny touch id button that sticks out like a sore thumb, as well as that gimmicky touch bar.
You cannot ask both to put Face ID in the MBP and to get rid of the Touch Bar at the same time. The Facetime camera is driven by the same T1 chip behind the Touch ID and Touch Bar, so Face ID and associated sensors will be the same. Touch Bar is not a gimmick, you may think of it as a "computer inside a computer". Apple's ultimate authentication goal is multi-biometrics. Future models will have both Touch ID and Face ID to achieve multi-biometrics.
Fingerprint ID isn't dead, but it's not a path to the future.
The future is "Breath ID," if you've watched the latest episode of Star Trek: Discovery. It's also easily fooled by having someone breathe on a piece of cloth while their sleeping and then blowing compressed air through the rag onto the sensor.
it'd make a lot more sense to put face id in the macbooks. then they can get rid of the shiny touch id button that sticks out like a sore thumb, as well as that gimmicky touch bar.
You cannot ask both to put Face ID in the MBP and to get rid of the Touch Bar at the same time. The Facetime camera is driven by the same T1 chip behind the Touch ID and Touch Bar, so Face ID and associated sensors will be the same. Touch Bar is not a gimmick, you may think of it as a "computer inside a computer". Apple's ultimate authentication goal is multi-biometrics. Future models will have both Touch ID and Face ID to achieve multi-biometrics.
Quite literally. It runs a forked version of watchOS that was forked from iOS that was forked from macOS. It's pretty damn impressive to have two versions of OS X running simultaneously on the same machine so we can get this secure authentication service, and it's also damn impressive that MS, Adobe, and other developers that are very slow to update their apps were able and willing to add support for the Touch Bar and Touch ID, but that's more a testament to Apple's forward thinking and building APIs that make the inclusion surprisingly simple. If I have a gripe, it's that the Touch Bar display isn't as "crisp" looking as I wish it was, but that's easily resolved with a higher PPI.
it'd make a lot more sense to put face id in the macbooks. then they can get rid of the shiny touch id button that sticks out like a sore thumb, as well as that gimmicky touch bar.
Of course it’s a gimmick because Apple invented it. /s The touchbar has a function, anything that adds function can’t be a gimmick. Do you plug in an external mouse to your MacBook to avoid the gimmicky trackpad?
reminds me of the Nintendo haters, everything Nintendo creates is a “gimmick”.
So how long will it be until retail purchases will be made with some form of 3D sensing? Do you really want credit card, banks and corporations to have a 3D image of your face on record? I have a iPhone 6s and don't plan on replacing for years to come unless it is lost or damaged. I assume iOS for iPhone X and those to follow will still allow for passcode verification.
You realize face id doesnt store 3D image of your face, right? that it’s a numeric hash and can’t be used to produce your image? (even if you had some reason to not want that)
According to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, Android hardware makers have turned their attention away from under-display fingerprint readers and toward 3D sensing technologies like those Apple debuted with iPhone X, a flip-flop designed to capture customer sentiment.
This guys notes get more ridiculous every day. Just a bunch of gibberish. Where is the customer sentiment for 3D sensing? Most consumers haven’t used Face ID yet and AR is in its infancy. Nobody knows yet if this is going to be the next big thing everyone has to have.
He and most everyone else who saw the keynote (consumers and OEMs) are predicting FaceID (instant secure unlock) and the technology that enables it, will be a commercial success. As Steve Jobs said “skate to where the puck is going.” You’re going to bust his balls for pointing this out, when we’re all assuming this to be the case? That’s ridiculous.
Yes I am. Apple’s not the first to have this technology. I highly doubt Android OEMs are scrambling now to get Face ID knockoffs into their phones. Just like I don’t think Apple scrambles to do something that Samsung, Google or anyone else announces. That’s not how companies work.
So how long will it be until retail purchases will be made with some form of 3D sensing? Do you really want credit card, banks and corporations to have a 3D image of your face on record? I have a iPhone 6s and don't plan on replacing for years to come unless it is lost or damaged. I assume iOS for iPhone X and those to follow will still allow for passcode verification.
Does the bank have a copy of your Touch ID fingerprint?, do they have your phone PIN number? Even Apple doesn’t Have this info, only the equivalent of a one way hash of the info collected from the sensor and key entry
Btw some one could eventually put those sensors everywhere so you better expand your paranoia beyond Apple
I assume iOS for iPhone X and those to follow will still allow for passcode verification.
I'm confused by your use of "assumed" when Touch ID and Face ID REQUIRE a passcode to be used as the primary security layer for all devices. These highly secure convenience features won't even work unless you have a passcode in place. Don't believe me, then try to disable iPhone Activation Lock on your iPhone, or try to update your iPhone, or restart your iPhone, or try to set up Touch ID without having a passcode, or let your iPhone sit for too long without use, or fail to access Touch ID 5x. In every single one of those cases the system wants a passcode, not Touch ID. It's the exact same for Face ID and there's nothing on the horizon that will be replacing a code stored in your memory that has to be inputted to 100% accuracy—certainly not a biometric whose purpose is to allow the lazy and less technical people to finally start using passcodes on their phones at all. I forget what Apple stated was the percentage of people that even used a simple, 4-digit PIN or better on their device when they announced Touch ID, but it is frightening low for someone that cares about security. I had been using a longer PIN as every new digit increases the complexity by a factor of 10, but when Touch ID came along I finally made the permanent* switch to alphanumerics with special characters since I had to input this complex** password infrequently.
* I say permanent, because I did try to use their full keyboard in the past but having to input it every time you unlocked it became a chore. When they first offered the QWETY keyboard option (which was only available with a Profile when using the original Apple Configurator's enterprise tool for iPhones) even using more than 4 digits for a PIN would still result in the full keyboard so you'd have to switch to the number and special character keyword and type in the digits along the top row. Only later on did they make it default to a number pad if it was just numbers, and I think it was only 2 years ago that they required the PIN to be 6-digits, which made it 100x more complex. Plus, I think that if you, say, one additional digit anyone trying to break into your phone wouldn't know if your PIN wasn't longer, which was a nice security measure to obscure its length.
** When I say complex, I don't mean that it's necessarily harder for the user. The number of options with the QWERTY keyboard give you a little over 1 billion permutations with only 4 characters. If they ever add Emoji to that it'll grow even more. I hope that we do see Emoji characters as password-compativle options, especially for Internet-facing accounts, because it would help me remember the few, very long and complex passwords I do have to remember. For instance, I can't rely on 1Password for generating a 64-character, random password for iCloud because I may have to use some device I don't own to find, lock, or erase a device in Find My iPhone.
According to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, Android hardware makers have turned their attention away from under-display fingerprint readers and toward 3D sensing technologies like those Apple debuted with iPhone X, a flip-flop designed to capture customer sentiment.
This guys notes get more ridiculous every day. Just a bunch of gibberish. Where is the customer sentiment for 3D sensing? Most consumers haven’t used Face ID yet and AR is in its infancy. Nobody knows yet if this is going to be the next big thing everyone has to have.
He and most everyone else who saw the keynote (consumers and OEMs) are predicting FaceID (instant secure unlock) and the technology that enables it, will be a commercial success. As Steve Jobs said “skate to where the puck is going.” You’re going to bust his balls for pointing this out, when we’re all assuming this to be the case? That’s ridiculous.
Yes I am. Apple’s not the first to have this technology. I highly doubt Android OEMs are scrambling now to get Face ID knockoffs into their phones. Just like I don’t think Apple scrambles to do something that Samsung, Google or anyone else announces. That’s not how companies work.
Yes Apple is the first to have this technology. The proof is coming November 3d. It is the next big thing and it is Apple who launched it first. If you think that Samsung’s cartoonish face recognition ridiculed enough with a dumb photo is the same as Face ID then you should better go acquire some information instead of pushing hopeless uninformed opinions here.
According to well-connected analyst Ming-Chi Kuo, Android hardware makers have turned their attention away from under-display fingerprint readers and toward 3D sensing technologies like those Apple debuted with iPhone X, a flip-flop designed to capture customer sentiment.
This guys notes get more ridiculous every day. Just a bunch of gibberish. Where is the customer sentiment for 3D sensing? Most consumers haven’t used Face ID yet and AR is in its infancy. Nobody knows yet if this is going to be the next big thing everyone has to have.
He and most everyone else who saw the keynote (consumers and OEMs) are predicting FaceID (instant secure unlock) and the technology that enables it, will be a commercial success. As Steve Jobs said “skate to where the puck is going.” You’re going to bust his balls for pointing this out, when we’re all assuming this to be the case? That’s ridiculous.
Yes I am. Apple’s not the first to have this technology. I highly doubt Android OEMs are scrambling now to get Face ID knockoffs into their phones. Just like I don’t think Apple scrambles to do something that Samsung, Google or anyone else announces. That’s not how companies work.
I agree that Apple wasn't the first to have this technology, but they are first with implementing it on a production device, in volume, as primary identification.
You make me laugh.
The few others that are working on this have likely secured some bit of the the available supply chain; the rest, not so much. Do you really think that Apple skimming off the cream of the supply chain production is just chance? It's monopsony behavior, no less than Samsung's hold on "proper" OLED's.
Scrambling is absolutely the correct term for what the others are doing.
Fingerprint ID isn't dead, but it's not a path to the future.
The future is "Breath ID," if you've watched the latest episode of Star Trek: Discovery. It's also easily fooled by having someone breathe on a piece of cloth while their sleeping and then blowing compressed air through the rag onto the sensor.
The future is Poop ID. Dogs already use it. They have the exquisite olfactory sensors necessary.
Qualcomm, on August 15th 2017, announced that their next generation Spectra ISP was going to have depth sensing capabilities and was to be integrated into flagship Snapdragon chips in 2018. So I don't see this coming as a surprise given it will be in the majority of Android flagships next year (of course, the OEMs still need to implement the required hardware).
Today we’re unveiling our 2nd generation Qualcomm Spectra ISP. It features a completely new architecture that is engineered to increase image quality and speed, but more importantly, it’s designed for depth sensing in high-resolution and high accuracy — at very low-power.
The power of Apple's current and future SoC's are going to become ever more apparent as Android running phones struggle to implement innovations with under powered Snapdragons. Hell, they can't even manage 1080p at 240 fps, how are they going to run heavy duty 3D sensing.
And how many people need 1080p at 240fps?
Way to miss a point. You may as well say, how many people need to shoot 1080p rather than 720p. I would say a good proportion of people who shoot slo mo currently at 720p would rather shoot it at 1080p given the choice.
I think the Face ID hardware is a first step towards creating a true AR solution for future AR shades. I could see the next generation of sensors and emitters and stuff being built for seeing the world around you.
So if this report is true and the reports of production bottlenecks for the 3D imaging assemblies are also true we could be in for some major shortages. I hope Apple has locked in their supply contracts!
Hardly any whining about the Google Pixel 2 missing the audio jack.
I agree with most of your statements and all of your general sentiment, but one point of content I have is the whining about the Pixel 2. I've seen a lot of bemoaning over its loss. While Google's HW sales isn't even in the same ballpark as Apple, they do have plenty of mindshare.
This is the problem that Apple runs into all the time, standards that are out of date, solves it with their own particular mix of, well everything, and then media complains about "fragmentation" because Apple has created a new defacto standard, or worse, new device category. Obviously, Google wants to be able to capitalize on their own standards creation, but to do that, they are going to have to cut the lifeline to "vanilla" Android OS. I hope that Google does that!
Don't make me list all of the examples of obsolete standards that Apple has "murdered" simply because they added nothing to Apple devices
Okay, one.
FM radios.
If it was such a big deal, Google would have said something about it during the announcement of the Pixel 2, when it would have been easy to take a cheap shot at Apple. They didn't. Nobody gives a shit about FM radio anymore. Heck, I don't even know if the Pixel 2 has a working FM radio at all. It surely can't use an earphone as an antenna.
Nilay is a moron. I don’t know how he became a tech writer. The headphone jack is gone the way of floppy drives, optical drives, and every other obsolete tech. Honeslty, I can’t wait until wireless charging is as fast as wired charging so we can get rid of all ports on iPhones.
Comments
It works now. Face ID works in place of Touch ID for Apple Pay, and any apps that allow authentication with Touch ID. In both cases, no one (merchant, bank, Apple or otherwise) gets either access to your finger print or face - these stay on your phone. Think of your of finger or face as a device specific pin, like your passcode. When the transaction is initiated the service confirms a accurate pin is entered (which remains hidden and local to the device) and the transaction occurs.
Btw, Google and merchants had been testing a more cumbersome version of this. Check it out: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2017/2/2/14483758/google-hands-free-payment-app-shut-down-android-pay
https://www.theverge.com/2017/10/5/16426754/pixel-2-headphone-jack-bluetooth-walled-garden
This is the problem that Apple runs into all the time, standards that are out of date, solves it with their own particular mix of, well everything, and then media complains about "fragmentation" because Apple has created a new defacto standard, or worse, new device category. Obviously, Google wants to be able to capitalize on their own standards creation, but to do that, they are going to have to cut the lifeline to "vanilla" Android OS. I hope that Google does that!
Don't make me list all of the examples of obsolete standards that Apple has "murdered" simply because they added nothing to Apple devices
Okay, one.
FM radios.
If it was such a big deal, Google would have said something about it during the announcement of the Pixel 2, when it would have been easy to take a cheap shot at Apple. They didn't. Nobody gives a shit about FM radio anymore. Heck, I don't even know if the Pixel 2 has a working FM radio at all. It surely can't use an earphone as an antenna.
The R&D action in authentication is going to be shrinking the components of Face ID down to where they fit in wearables, and evolving it to be more robust; this is obvious. This is just as true for Android OS.
Fingerprint ID isn't dead, but it's not a path to the future.
The touchbar has a function, anything that adds function can’t be a gimmick. Do you plug in an external mouse to your MacBook to avoid the gimmicky trackpad?
reminds me of the Nintendo haters, everything Nintendo creates is a “gimmick”.
Btw some one could eventually put those sensors everywhere so you better expand your paranoia beyond Apple
* I say permanent, because I did try to use their full keyboard in the past but having to input it every time you unlocked it became a chore. When they first offered the QWETY keyboard option (which was only available with a Profile when using the original Apple Configurator's enterprise tool for iPhones) even using more than 4 digits for a PIN would still result in the full keyboard so you'd have to switch to the number and special character keyword and type in the digits along the top row. Only later on did they make it default to a number pad if it was just numbers, and I think it was only 2 years ago that they required the PIN to be 6-digits, which made it 100x more complex. Plus, I think that if you, say, one additional digit anyone trying to break into your phone wouldn't know if your PIN wasn't longer, which was a nice security measure to obscure its length.
** When I say complex, I don't mean that it's necessarily harder for the user. The number of options with the QWERTY keyboard give you a little over 1 billion permutations with only 4 characters. If they ever add Emoji to that it'll grow even more. I hope that we do see Emoji characters as password-compativle options, especially for Internet-facing accounts, because it would help me remember the few, very long and complex passwords I do have to remember. For instance, I can't rely on 1Password for generating a 64-character, random password for iCloud because I may have to use some device I don't own to find, lock, or erase a device in Find My iPhone.
You make me laugh.
The few others that are working on this have likely secured some bit of the the available supply chain; the rest, not so much. Do you really think that Apple skimming off the cream of the supply chain production is just chance? It's monopsony behavior, no less than Samsung's hold on "proper" OLED's.
Scrambling is absolutely the correct term for what the others are doing.