Apple's Tim Cook to talk with French President Macron on Oct. 9

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in General Discussion
Apple CEO Tim Cook will meet with French President Emmanuel Macron on Monday, according to an official agenda item, marking just his second official visit to France as CEO.




The event will take place at 4:15 p.m. local time, or 10:15 a.m. Eastern. No discussion topics have been made public.

Cook could use the opportunity to pressure Macron on taxes, since the French and German governments have been spearheading efforts to close European loopholes used by multinational corporations. Apple in particular has exploited Irish rules to pay taxes as low as 0.005 percent, despite funneling billions of dollars in international revenue through the country.

The Irish government has been ordered to collect at least $15 billion in back taxes from Apple, compensating for what the European Commission has ruled was illegal state aid. The country's slow pace recently resulted in the Commission deciding to take Ireland to court.

Cook will likely address other topics he commonly raises with international leaders, such as educational initiatives and the company's future investments, if any.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 39
    christophbchristophb Posts: 1,482member
    Why wouldn’t Apple want to pay its fair share?
  • Reply 2 of 39
    Because Tim's compassion with social issues is only a facade. His pokerface hides a mere supercapitalist ego. I wouldn't know what Macron has to discuss with him (both seem excellent in vacuum talk) unless he pays a fair share of taxes. Cancel his flight back and put him in a prison for a couple of weeks ("Wellcumme zoo ze Baztillje, ze bhest place ien Frahnce veur yuu")
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 3 of 39
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,112member
    Why wouldn’t Apple want to pay its fair share?
    Uh, why wouldn’t Apple sell its products for cost plus, say, a 10% profit?

  • Reply 4 of 39
    JanNLJanNL Posts: 327member
    Bacillus3 said:
    Because Tim's compassion with social issues is only a facade. His pokerface hides a mere supercapitalist ego. I wouldn't know what Macron has to discuss with him (both seem excellent in vacuum talk) unless he pays a fair share of taxes. Cancel his flight back and put him in a prison for a couple of weeks ("Wellcumme zoo ze Baztillje, ze bhest place ien Frahnce veur yuu")
    What a strong comment, not...

    If there is one aspect Tim Cook is clear and honest about (in my opinion sometimes a little too much as a CEO of a tech company/Apple), it's certain social issues. As far as I can assess, he really wants to make a difference in a lot of fields. Also outside the strict technical scope.
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 5 of 39
    Why wouldn’t Apple want to pay its fair share?
    Wtf is 'fair'? And what makes you think Apple is isn't paying that?

    C'mon, be specific. 
    JWSC
  • Reply 6 of 39
    Bacillus3 said:
    Because Tim's compassion with social issues is only a facade. His pokerface hides a mere supercapitalist ego. I wouldn't know what Macron has to discuss with him (both seem excellent in vacuum talk) unless he pays a fair share of taxes. Cancel his flight back and put him in a prison for a couple of weeks ("Wellcumme zoo ze Baztillje, ze bhest place ien Frahnce veur yuu")
    Yeah, I'll bet you want free computers and phones too. 

    I don't know where you live, but where I do, Tim Cook as CEO is responsible to his shareholders first. Not 'compassion with social issues.' He can run for office if he wants to do that, or start a charity with his own money. 
    JWSC
  • Reply 7 of 39
    badmonkbadmonk Posts: 1,285member
    Why wouldn’t Apple want to pay its fair share?
    AAPL is the largest tax-payer in the USA.
    anantksundaramRayz2016StrangeDaysJWSCjony0
  • Reply 8 of 39
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,112member
    badmonk said:
    Why wouldn’t Apple want to pay its fair share?
    AAPL is the largest tax-payer in the USA.
    Somehow I don’t think M. Macron invited Mr. Cook to talk about how much Apple pays in US taxes. 
  • Reply 9 of 39
    This Monday morning Tim Cook visited in Normandy to a small French company Eldim, 42 employees, which provides one of the technologies for the iPhone X. Also Apple could settle in Station F, the incubator funded by Xavier Niel (Free provider), a giant start-up campus open in early summer in Paris. Apple would then join Microsoft and Facebook who already accompany young startups. The subjects of discussion are not lacking apart from the problems of taxation which will certainly be evoked.
    tmayjony0
  • Reply 10 of 39
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,686member

    As corpoate law now stand Apple owes France nothing, except tax due on net profit from retail stores. Corporate tax generated from wholesale profits made outside the US  is either owed in Ireland or the US ( if repatriated). If it isnt paid in Ireland, it is due in the US when repatriated. If it is paid in Ireland, double taxation laws will mean the US gets less when repatriated but not nothing as the tax rate is higher in the US. 

    Either way, France isnt, as it now stands, due any corporate tax. 
    edited October 2017 StrangeDaysjony0
  • Reply 11 of 39
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,834member
    Bacillus3 said:
    Because Tim's compassion with social issues is only a facade. His pokerface hides a mere supercapitalist ego. I wouldn't know what Macron has to discuss with him (both seem excellent in vacuum talk) unless he pays a fair share of taxes. Cancel his flight back and put him in a prison for a couple of weeks ("Wellcumme zoo ze Baztillje, ze bhest place ien Frahnce veur yuu")
    Wait, who says you can't be both a capitalist and concerned with social issues? How is that determined? So confused.
  • Reply 12 of 39
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,834member

    Why wouldn’t Apple want to pay its fair share?
    Apple is already the largest US taxpayer, unlike other mega corps who cheated their way to paying 0 and in fact getting a credit (GE, famously in 2010). 

    As for international taxes all Apple has to do is pay a local tax rate then repatriate foreign earnings back to the US, but the tax law doesn't give a time frame on when you have to do this, thus the offshore holdings while paying (low) taxes in Ireland.
  • Reply 13 of 39
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,801member
    Why wouldn’t Apple want to pay its fair share?
    Show us where Apple isn't paying its fair share....go ahead! I love how people like you like to say this and then nothing more. 
    StrangeDaysjony0
  • Reply 14 of 39
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,203member
    fred1 said:
    Somehow I don’t think M. Macron invited Mr. Cook to talk about how much Apple pays in US taxes. 
    Perhaps not.  But it certainly is pertinent.  If Apple loses its appeal, it will ultimately be the US Government’s own IRS that foots the Irish tax bill.
  • Reply 15 of 39
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    JWSC said:
    fred1 said:
    Somehow I don’t think M. Macron invited Mr. Cook to talk about how much Apple pays in US taxes. 
    Perhaps not.  But it certainly is pertinent.  If Apple loses its appeal, it will ultimately be the US Government’s own IRS that foots the Irish tax bill.
    Only if Apple had intentions of repatriating and paying US corporate taxes on all of their foreign profits. According to Apple financials there is no foreseeable circumstance where Apple would do so with the majority of their foreign held cash, stating it is permanently invested overseas with no plans and to "bring it home".

    In any event the EU is not accusing Apple of breaking any tax law in the first place, so any taxes they may have to pay is not a penalty. Apple knew the possibility was coming too, mentioning several years ago in their financial footnotes that it could be as much as $30B IIRC, so they certainly were not shocked and surprised that this is an issue.

    Common sense tells you that the more aggressively a company (or a  person) puts effort into avoiding taxation the higher the likelihood that some of it doesn't pass muster and back taxes might be due. 
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 16 of 39
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    asdasd said:

    As corpoate law now stand Apple owes France nothing, except tax due on net profit from retail stores. Corporate tax generated from wholesale profits made outside the US  is either owed in Ireland or the US ( if repatriated). If it isnt paid in Ireland, it is due in the US when repatriated. If it is paid in Ireland, double taxation laws will mean the US gets less when repatriated but not nothing as the tax rate is higher in the US. 

    Either way, France isnt, as it now stands, due any corporate tax. 
    I believe that would be one of the issues they might discuss. Apple has been able to actually book paper losses in some of the EU countries where they operate stores in part by charging IP royalty payments due to Apple Sales International(I think that's the proper subsidiary), topped off with brand and copyright licensing to skim off much if not all the profits that would typically be realized when a French or German citizen purchases an iDevice from their respective local Apple Store.

    What Apple and Google and Amazon and other big techs wish to avoid is the current EU proposal that revenues be subject to corporate taxation in the countries where the sale was made or the service rendered, neutering the use of IP and other transfer pricing strategies to shift profits to very low or even 100% non-taxable subsidiaries. With most EU countries in the 20%-30% tax range it would be a significant cost if the law were put into effect. 
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 17 of 39
    gatorguy said:
    asdasd said:

    As corpoate law now stand Apple owes France nothing, except tax due on net profit from retail stores. Corporate tax generated from wholesale profits made outside the US  is either owed in Ireland or the US ( if repatriated). If it isnt paid in Ireland, it is due in the US when repatriated. If it is paid in Ireland, double taxation laws will mean the US gets less when repatriated but not nothing as the tax rate is higher in the US. 

    Either way, France isnt, as it now stands, due any corporate tax. 
    ...Apple has been able to actually book paper losses in some of the EU countries where they operate stores in part by charging IP royalty payments due to Apple Sales International(I think that's the proper subsidiary), topped off with brand and copyright licensing to skim off much if not all the profits that would typically be realized when a French or German citizen purchases an iDevice from their respective local Apple Store.

    What Apple and Google and Amazon and other big techs wish to avoid is the current EU proposal that revenues be subject to corporate taxation in the countries where the sale was made or the service rendered, neutering the use of IP and other transfer pricing strategies to shift profits to very low or even 100% non-taxable subsidiaries....
    This is the frickin' law. They follow the law. Unless it is proved otherwise.

    Get used to the fact that companies are not charities.
    edited October 2017 JWSC
  • Reply 18 of 39
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 24,176member
    gatorguy said:
    asdasd said:

    As corpoate law now stand Apple owes France nothing, except tax due on net profit from retail stores. Corporate tax generated from wholesale profits made outside the US  is either owed in Ireland or the US ( if repatriated). If it isnt paid in Ireland, it is due in the US when repatriated. If it is paid in Ireland, double taxation laws will mean the US gets less when repatriated but not nothing as the tax rate is higher in the US. 

    Either way, France isnt, as it now stands, due any corporate tax. 
    ...Apple has been able to actually book paper losses in some of the EU countries where they operate stores in part by charging IP royalty payments due to Apple Sales International(I think that's the proper subsidiary), topped off with brand and copyright licensing to skim off much if not all the profits that would typically be realized when a French or German citizen purchases an iDevice from their respective local Apple Store.

    What Apple and Google and Amazon and other big techs wish to avoid is the current EU proposal that revenues be subject to corporate taxation in the countries where the sale was made or the service rendered, neutering the use of IP and other transfer pricing strategies to shift profits to very low or even 100% non-taxable subsidiaries....
    This is the frickin' law. They follow the law. Unless it is proved otherwise.

    Get used to the fact that companies are not charities.
    Who is claiming Apple broke the law? That's not what this is about, and you knew that.
    edited October 2017
  • Reply 19 of 39
    Why wouldn’t Apple want to pay its fair share?
    I hope this comment was sarcastic...
    JWSC
  • Reply 20 of 39
    gatorguy said:
    gatorguy said:
    asdasd said:

    As corpoate law now stand Apple owes France nothing, except tax due on net profit from retail stores. Corporate tax generated from wholesale profits made outside the US  is either owed in Ireland or the US ( if repatriated). If it isnt paid in Ireland, it is due in the US when repatriated. If it is paid in Ireland, double taxation laws will mean the US gets less when repatriated but not nothing as the tax rate is higher in the US. 

    Either way, France isnt, as it now stands, due any corporate tax. 
    ...Apple has been able to actually book paper losses in some of the EU countries where they operate stores in part by charging IP royalty payments due to Apple Sales International(I think that's the proper subsidiary), topped off with brand and copyright licensing to skim off much if not all the profits that would typically be realized when a French or German citizen purchases an iDevice from their respective local Apple Store.

    What Apple and Google and Amazon and other big techs wish to avoid is the current EU proposal that revenues be subject to corporate taxation in the countries where the sale was made or the service rendered, neutering the use of IP and other transfer pricing strategies to shift profits to very low or even 100% non-taxable subsidiaries....
    This is the frickin' law. They follow the law. Unless it is proved otherwise.

    Get used to the fact that companies are not charities.
    Who is claiming Apple broke the law? That's not what this is about, and you knew that.
    You ignored the second para.
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