Microsoft pulls plug on Windows 10 Mobile, says userbase too small to support apps

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 55
    nhtnht Posts: 4,429member
    tmay said:
    I tried using a Windows phone and actually used it as my main driver (Nokia 1520) for over a year. It wasn't a bad experience. The problem was the lack of apps and basically offering everything iOS offers in a much rougher, clunkier form. M$ was basically throwing money at developers and IT support managers but even that couldn't convince me to stick with it, recommend it or deploy it.

    Switching back was pure joy.


    Likewise, I tried the platform for over 2 years and was getting more frustrated by the month. Perhaps the frustration came partly because the tiles interface was truly okay to work with, but the bugs jumped from app to app with every new iteration that came out. And second that the phone itself, a Nokia, was fine and, in its way, nice to see with a beautiful Oled screen and great camera (time and again people would comment on it and doing the oh and ah thing). And Microsoft kept telling how they would support this podium. Perhaps that was the big frustration, because everybody knew, felt, how untrue that was.
    Rumor has it that the Surface Platform will be "sleeping" next. It just isn't profitable enough nor necessary.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/04/surface/
    Meh.  Could happen but honestly having Lenovo and Dell execs saying MS will leave Surface seems more than a bit self-serving...
  • Reply 42 of 55
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,645member
    nht said:
    tmay said:
    I tried using a Windows phone and actually used it as my main driver (Nokia 1520) for over a year. It wasn't a bad experience. The problem was the lack of apps and basically offering everything iOS offers in a much rougher, clunkier form. M$ was basically throwing money at developers and IT support managers but even that couldn't convince me to stick with it, recommend it or deploy it.

    Switching back was pure joy.


    Likewise, I tried the platform for over 2 years and was getting more frustrated by the month. Perhaps the frustration came partly because the tiles interface was truly okay to work with, but the bugs jumped from app to app with every new iteration that came out. And second that the phone itself, a Nokia, was fine and, in its way, nice to see with a beautiful Oled screen and great camera (time and again people would comment on it and doing the oh and ah thing). And Microsoft kept telling how they would support this podium. Perhaps that was the big frustration, because everybody knew, felt, how untrue that was.
    Rumor has it that the Surface Platform will be "sleeping" next. It just isn't profitable enough nor necessary.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/04/surface/
    Meh.  Could happen but honestly having Lenovo and Dell execs saying MS will leave Surface seems more than a bit self-serving...
    Still, the link is correct about the sales.
    cornchip
  • Reply 43 of 55
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,645member
    tmay said:
    cali said:
    tmay said:
    cali said:
    hodar said:
    eightzero said:
    When is the funeral?
    That was the part I remember the most during their "Release", was the "Funeral Parade".  The sheer arrogance of MSFT, they arrive to the market 3+ years late, without any new features, and then stage a funeral on how they are going to kill Apple.  Then they released a Lumia 1020 with 41 MP camera, when the tech clearly didn't support that level of technology.  No cut and paste, when every competitor already had it.

    How many times have they done this same dance?  Surface 1, Surface 2, Surface RT, Kin1 and Kin2, Zune, Windows phones - all cancelled without support, leaving their user base suck with an unsupported platform.  You would think that people would catch on eventually.
    They didn’t arrive to the market late. They had phones years before iPhone. iPhone wasn’t the first phone in the world even though most kids think so. 
    The current market is defined by the original iPhone. If there was a market for phones before that, it died when the iPhone arrived, so yeah, MS arrived to the market late.
    You mean they arrived late to the iPhone copycat market.

    Remember Ballmer’s “we are selling millions of phones every year. Apple is selling 0.”
    It seems that you imply that Apple copied MS; surely a joke, right? Your defense actually make MS look even more incompetent.

    Ballmer wasn't bright enough to realize that the iPhone was a disruption in the mobile market, but then, neither did most to the existing leaders. Samsung is one of the few profitable survivors. I can't think of another offhand.
    No, I think cali is saying that MS was indeed in the market of smart-phones (remember Windows CE?) and thus not late to the market, but that they just failed to do what everybody else did and copy Apple.
    I could agree with that; it was, though, Windows Mobile when the iPhone arrived, and most of the devices looked like Blackberry's.
    edited October 2017 watto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 55
    calicali Posts: 3,495member
    anome said:
    cali said:
    hodar said:
    eightzero said:
    When is the funeral?
    That was the part I remember the most during their "Release", was the "Funeral Parade".  The sheer arrogance of MSFT, they arrive to the market 3+ years late, without any new features, and then stage a funeral on how they are going to kill Apple.  Then they released a Lumia 1020 with 41 MP camera, when the tech clearly didn't support that level of technology.  No cut and paste, when every competitor already had it.

    How many times have they done this same dance?  Surface 1, Surface 2, Surface RT, Kin1 and Kin2, Zune, Windows phones - all cancelled without support, leaving their user base suck with an unsupported platform.  You would think that people would catch on eventually.
    They didn’t arrive to the market late. They had phones years before iPhone. iPhone wasn’t the first phone in the world even though most kids think so. 

    No, they weren't late to the market, but they were late to realise that the market had changed, and they had to adapt. MS were arguably at the top of the "smartphone" market prior to 2007, and mistakenly believed that meant they understood it. They failed to realise that, rather than having the best platform, they just had the least bad platform available. They were completely unprepared for anyone to bring something better to market, and for users to start buying it. Then they relied way too much on people sticking with the familiar - people know Windows, so let's run Windows on everything - rather than trying to innovate.

    It would be trite to say it was all Ballmer's fault. There were a lot of people involved in a series of bad decisions, but as CEO at the time, Ballmer does have to take a lot of the blame.

    Apple was late to the market.

    No it wasn’t ballmers fault, it was Apple’s fault. The iPhone destroyed everything. As much of a monkey that Ballmer was, no one could have saved MS from iPhone. Remember Windows and blackberry were doing GREAT. The only reason android is around is because Eric and others had inside info and their goal was to make cheap knockoffs for...cheap. Had Google been in MS’ shoes too, iPhone would have ruled both market share and profit share. iPod anyone?

    The problem was Steve thinking MS was the enemy when the bigger snake was lying with him the whole time. 
    watto_cobracornchip
  • Reply 45 of 55
    anomeanome Posts: 1,266member
    anome said:
    cali said:
    hodar said:
    eightzero said:
    When is the funeral?
    That was the part I remember the most during their "Release", was the "Funeral Parade".  The sheer arrogance of MSFT, they arrive to the market 3+ years late, without any new features, and then stage a funeral on how they are going to kill Apple.  Then they released a Lumia 1020 with 41 MP camera, when the tech clearly didn't support that level of technology.  No cut and paste, when every competitor already had it.

    How many times have they done this same dance?  Surface 1, Surface 2, Surface RT, Kin1 and Kin2, Zune, Windows phones - all cancelled without support, leaving their user base suck with an unsupported platform.  You would think that people would catch on eventually.
    They didn’t arrive to the market late. They had phones years before iPhone. iPhone wasn’t the first phone in the world even though most kids think so. 

    No, they weren't late to the market, but they were late to realise that the market had changed, and they had to adapt. MS were arguably at the top of the "smartphone" market prior to 2007, and mistakenly believed that meant they understood it. They failed to realise that, rather than having the best platform, they just had the least bad platform available. They were completely unprepared for anyone to bring something better to market, and for users to start buying it. Then they relied way too much on people sticking with the familiar - people know Windows, so let's run Windows on everything - rather than trying to innovate.

    It would be trite to say it was all Ballmer's fault. There were a lot of people involved in a series of bad decisions, but as CEO at the time, Ballmer does have to take a lot of the blame.


    Don't go easy on Ballmer.  Even when the iPhone came out, he still refused to see the way forward.

    He certainly has a lot of responsibility as I said, but there have to have been others at MS who could have set him straight. It's not like it's the first time he made such a mistake. See his comments on the World Wide Web in 1995, or pretty much any public statement he made while at MS.

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 55
    anomeanome Posts: 1,266member
    cali said:
    anome said:
    cali said:
    hodar said:
    eightzero said:
    When is the funeral?
    That was the part I remember the most during their "Release", was the "Funeral Parade".  The sheer arrogance of MSFT, they arrive to the market 3+ years late, without any new features, and then stage a funeral on how they are going to kill Apple.  Then they released a Lumia 1020 with 41 MP camera, when the tech clearly didn't support that level of technology.  No cut and paste, when every competitor already had it.

    How many times have they done this same dance?  Surface 1, Surface 2, Surface RT, Kin1 and Kin2, Zune, Windows phones - all cancelled without support, leaving their user base suck with an unsupported platform.  You would think that people would catch on eventually.
    They didn’t arrive to the market late. They had phones years before iPhone. iPhone wasn’t the first phone in the world even though most kids think so. 

    No, they weren't late to the market, but they were late to realise that the market had changed, and they had to adapt. MS were arguably at the top of the "smartphone" market prior to 2007, and mistakenly believed that meant they understood it. They failed to realise that, rather than having the best platform, they just had the least bad platform available. They were completely unprepared for anyone to bring something better to market, and for users to start buying it. Then they relied way too much on people sticking with the familiar - people know Windows, so let's run Windows on everything - rather than trying to innovate.

    It would be trite to say it was all Ballmer's fault. There were a lot of people involved in a series of bad decisions, but as CEO at the time, Ballmer does have to take a lot of the blame.

    Apple was late to the market.

    No it wasn’t ballmers fault, it was Apple’s fault. The iPhone destroyed everything. As much of a monkey that Ballmer was, no one could have saved MS from iPhone. Remember Windows and blackberry were doing GREAT. The only reason android is around is because Eric and others had inside info and their goal was to make cheap knockoffs for...cheap. Had Google been in MS’ shoes too, iPhone would have ruled both market share and profit share. iPod anyone?

    The problem was Steve thinking MS was the enemy when the bigger snake was lying with him the whole time. 

    I disagree. MS was felled by its own complacency. Not so much by Apple releasing the iPhone, as by believing that nothing could possibly dislodge their loyal user base. This was because they misunderstood "Well, this works better than the other thing" was not the same as "This is an enjoyable experience."

    Apple then completely disrupted the market, and MS, as is their wont, assumed they'd be able to ride it out and play catch up at their leisure. They didn't count on Google shifting Android to better copy the iPhone as quickly as they did. They probably didn't even think of Android as being serious competition. They also didn't believe that people might actually prefer the iPhone experience to Windows.

    watto_cobraStrangeDays
  • Reply 47 of 55
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,564member
    thanx_al said:
    How many times have they done this same dance?  Surface 1, Surface 2, Surface RT, Kin1 and Kin2, Zune, Windows phones - all cancelled without support, leaving their user base suck with an unsupported platform.  
    And MAN are those three people ever mad!!!
    Actually did laugh out loud. :smiley: 


    edited October 2017
  • Reply 48 of 55
    dewmedewme Posts: 2,019member
    hodar said:
    eightzero said:
    When is the funeral?
    That was the part I remember the most during their "Release", was the "Funeral Parade".  The sheer arrogance of MSFT, they arrive to the market 3+ years late, without any new features, and then stage a funeral on how they are going to kill Apple.  Then they released a Lumia 1020 with 41 MP camera, when the tech clearly didn't support that level of technology.  No cut and paste, when every competitor already had it.

    How many times have they done this same dance?  Surface 1, Surface 2, Surface RT, Kin1 and Kin2, Zune, Windows phones - all cancelled without support, leaving their user base suck with an unsupported platform.  You would think that people would catch on eventually.
    That's the very first thing I thought when I read the title of this article ... will Microsoft employees stage a similar, but now very real, funeral for Windows Mobile that they mocked for iPhone? Hopefully they still have all the costumes and props laying around. I'll have to check with a colleague of mine who had a prominent role in the fake funeral. As far as the Microsoft death spiral dance is concerned, the pattern is unfortunately recurring and predictable. I just wonder how many great engineers and designers were wasted over the last decade trying to patch up the stinking and derelict hulk of their failed mobile platform. Balmer certainly didn't drive the final nail in the coffin, but he contributed a great deal towards building the coffin itself and ensuring that there was plenty of room inside it to hold a lot of doomed Microsoft employees, industry partners, and customers who bought into his grand schemes, most of which were driven by Apple envy rather than clear vision or opportunities to contribute to customer value.  
    cornchip
  • Reply 49 of 55
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,564member
    cali said:
    anome said:
    cali said:
    hodar said:
    eightzero said:
    When is the funeral?
    That was the part I remember the most during their "Release", was the "Funeral Parade".  The sheer arrogance of MSFT, they arrive to the market 3+ years late, without any new features, and then stage a funeral on how they are going to kill Apple.  Then they released a Lumia 1020 with 41 MP camera, when the tech clearly didn't support that level of technology.  No cut and paste, when every competitor already had it.

    How many times have they done this same dance?  Surface 1, Surface 2, Surface RT, Kin1 and Kin2, Zune, Windows phones - all cancelled without support, leaving their user base suck with an unsupported platform.  You would think that people would catch on eventually.
    They didn’t arrive to the market late. They had phones years before iPhone. iPhone wasn’t the first phone in the world even though most kids think so. 

    No, they weren't late to the market, but they were late to realise that the market had changed, and they had to adapt. MS were arguably at the top of the "smartphone" market prior to 2007, and mistakenly believed that meant they understood it. They failed to realise that, rather than having the best platform, they just had the least bad platform available. They were completely unprepared for anyone to bring something better to market, and for users to start buying it. Then they relied way too much on people sticking with the familiar - people know Windows, so let's run Windows on everything - rather than trying to innovate.

    It would be trite to say it was all Ballmer's fault. There were a lot of people involved in a series of bad decisions, but as CEO at the time, Ballmer does have to take a lot of the blame.

    Apple was late to the market.

    No it wasn’t ballmers fault, it was Apple’s fault. The iPhone destroyed everything. As much of a monkey that Ballmer was, no one could have saved MS from iPhone. Remember Windows and blackberry were doing GREAT. The only reason android is around is because Eric and others had inside info and their goal was to make cheap knockoffs for...cheap. Had Google been in MS’ shoes too, iPhone would have ruled both market share and profit share. iPod anyone?

    The problem was Steve thinking MS was the enemy when the bigger snake was lying with him the whole time. 
    When people trot out that tired “This wouldn’t have happened under Steve” meme then they should also try to remember that his mistake brought about the rise of Android, a drawn out legal battle that brought very little in return, and possibly the employment of Gatorguy. 


    edited October 2017 bestkeptsecretStrangeDayscornchip
  • Reply 50 of 55
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,564member
    The problem with Microsoft is that they often mistake necessity for popularity. You see this all the time when they tell The IT press how “popular” Office365 subscriptions are. 

    What then happens is that a competitor comes along and you see little need to change course, or even take that competitor seriously. So you laugh, point fingers, hold fake funerals, and then by the time you realise you’re not actually popular, you also discover you’re no longer necessary. 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯





    edited October 2017 cornchip
  • Reply 51 of 55
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 2,055member
    Three words in and you have a typo.

    "Stuggled" indeed...
  • Reply 52 of 55
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    cali said:
    tmay said:
    cali said:
    hodar said:
    eightzero said:
    When is the funeral?
    That was the part I remember the most during their "Release", was the "Funeral Parade".  The sheer arrogance of MSFT, they arrive to the market 3+ years late, without any new features, and then stage a funeral on how they are going to kill Apple.  Then they released a Lumia 1020 with 41 MP camera, when the tech clearly didn't support that level of technology.  No cut and paste, when every competitor already had it.

    How many times have they done this same dance?  Surface 1, Surface 2, Surface RT, Kin1 and Kin2, Zune, Windows phones - all cancelled without support, leaving their user base suck with an unsupported platform.  You would think that people would catch on eventually.
    They didn’t arrive to the market late. They had phones years before iPhone. iPhone wasn’t the first phone in the world even though most kids think so. 
    The current market is defined by the original iPhone. If there was a market for phones before that, it died when the iPhone arrived, so yeah, MS arrived to the market late.
    You mean they arrived late to the iPhone copycat market.

    Remember Ballmer’s “we are selling millions of phones every year. Apple is selling 0.”
    It seems that you imply that Apple copied MS; surely a joke, right? Your defense actually make MS look even more incompetent.

    Ballmer wasn't bright enough to realize that the iPhone was a disruption in the mobile market, but then, neither did most to the existing leaders. Samsung is one of the few profitable survivors. I can't think of another offhand.
    No, I think cali is saying that MS was indeed in the market of smart-phones (remember Windows CE?) and thus not late to the market, but that they just failed to do what everybody else did and copy Apple.
    I could agree with that; it was, though, Windows Mobile when the iPhone arrived, and most of the devices looked like Blackberry's.
    No disagreement there. MS had the opportunity to create the future, but they failed. Apple is the one that questioned everything and made the future.
  • Reply 53 of 55
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,165member
    Thanks for the memories, Microsoft.

    You beat me to it.  LOL.   Schadenfreude at it's very best, served cold.  Yet Mr. Rip off everything Apple to get rich Gates insists he and his family can't use Apple products due to his (what... conscience?) and uses  Android.  Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face.
    edited October 2017 tmay
  • Reply 54 of 55
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,165member

    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    I tried using a Windows phone and actually used it as my main driver (Nokia 1520) for over a year. It wasn't a bad experience. The problem was the lack of apps and basically offering everything iOS offers in a much rougher, clunkier form. M$ was basically throwing money at developers and IT support managers but even that couldn't convince me to stick with it, recommend it or deploy it.

    Switching back was pure joy.


    Likewise, I tried the platform for over 2 years and was getting more frustrated by the month. Perhaps the frustration came partly because the tiles interface was truly okay to work with, but the bugs jumped from app to app with every new iteration that came out. And second that the phone itself, a Nokia, was fine and, in its way, nice to see with a beautiful Oled screen and great camera (time and again people would comment on it and doing the oh and ah thing). And Microsoft kept telling how they would support this podium. Perhaps that was the big frustration, because everybody knew, felt, how untrue that was.
    Rumor has it that the Surface Platform will be "sleeping" next. It just isn't profitable enough nor necessary.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/04/surface/
    highly doubt it. Tablet computing is one area where MS is actually giving Apple a run for its money.
    Not much of a "run for the money". For the most part, Surface stuff competes with potential Mac Book / Mac Book Pro buyers, not the iPad Pro. which is a pure mobile execution of tablet. Windows Phone being dead doesn't advance that at all.

    Now, I might agree that a Surface on ARM in a similar form factor would likely compete with the iPad Pro, but, still awaiting a rebirth. 

    Yep, Apple should at least send flowers.  😥
  • Reply 55 of 55
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,868member
    tmay said:
    nht said:
    tmay said:
    I tried using a Windows phone and actually used it as my main driver (Nokia 1520) for over a year. It wasn't a bad experience. The problem was the lack of apps and basically offering everything iOS offers in a much rougher, clunkier form. M$ was basically throwing money at developers and IT support managers but even that couldn't convince me to stick with it, recommend it or deploy it.

    Switching back was pure joy.


    Likewise, I tried the platform for over 2 years and was getting more frustrated by the month. Perhaps the frustration came partly because the tiles interface was truly okay to work with, but the bugs jumped from app to app with every new iteration that came out. And second that the phone itself, a Nokia, was fine and, in its way, nice to see with a beautiful Oled screen and great camera (time and again people would comment on it and doing the oh and ah thing). And Microsoft kept telling how they would support this podium. Perhaps that was the big frustration, because everybody knew, felt, how untrue that was.
    Rumor has it that the Surface Platform will be "sleeping" next. It just isn't profitable enough nor necessary.

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/04/surface/
    Meh.  Could happen but honestly having Lenovo and Dell execs saying MS will leave Surface seems more than a bit self-serving...
    Still, the link is correct about the sales.
    The PC / tablet market is where MS still has strength.  They're not dropping Surface

    https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/141190/microsoft-no-not-killing-surface
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