Apple sacks iPhone X engineer after daughter posts hands-on video to YouTube

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Comments

  • Reply 161 of 286
    technotechno Posts: 737member
    ... A reasonable person might ask how much it would have really cost Apple to ensure that phones could not film without first obtaining a code number or other authorization and what precautions were taken to assist employees with authorized visitors in complying with the security policies.
    Huh? What do you mean? The video was shot by another phone. Or do you mean some magical power that makes the not-yet-released-phone invisible to cameras?

    The real person that should be focussed on is the daughter. She is the one that made the stupid decision to make this video and post it. How could she not realize this would get her dad in trouble?
    edited October 2017 baconstang
  • Reply 162 of 286
    dcgoo said:
    While we don’t know the details, sure a demotion of something could also be considered. But it’s not like Apple cut his finger off... Apple engineers can work anywhere they want. Many will sympathize with him and I doubt he’ll have much trouble finding another gig. 
    Violation of an NDA in your history, is going be a little tricky to overcome.  Let alone with all the follow-up publicity.  He can probably get a job selling tools or paint at Home Depot, but I doubt he will ever be hirable in any firm developing some new groundbreaking product.
    As I understand it an employer (Apple in this case) can only verify the fact that he was employed and the dates of his employment -- not that he was fired/quit or why.

    Any difficulty he might encounter due to publicity is of his own (or his daughter's) doing.
    Soliappleinsiderfanpscooter63magman1979
  • Reply 163 of 286
    techno said:
    ... A reasonable person might ask how much it would have really cost Apple to ensure that phones could not film without first obtaining a code number or other authorization and what precautions were taken to assist employees with authorized visitors in complying with the security policies.
    Huh? What do you mean? The video was shot by another phone. Or do you mean some magical power that makes the not-yet-released-phone invisible to cameras?

    The real person that should be focussed on is the daughter. She is the one that made the stupid decision to make this video and post it. How could she not realize this would get her dad in trouble?
    If a bank robber handed part of the money to a family member, would you then have said that if he got caught due to it we should focus on that family member stupidly spending the money?!

    Seriously; the problem isn't her not realising that this would get him in trouble, but him not realising that doing what he did would get him in trouble.

    Legally he'd basically been in the same amount of trouble even if she hadn't uploaded it to the Net.
    apple jockey
  • Reply 164 of 286

    ...Speaking of contracts...

    I was actually asked this question:  "Why can't I use the iPhone Upgrade Program to trade my iPhone 7 for a Pixel 2?"
    SoliSpamSandwichpscooter63
  • Reply 165 of 286
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    dcgoo said:
    While we don’t know the details, sure a demotion of something could also be considered. But it’s not like Apple cut his finger off... Apple engineers can work anywhere they want. Many will sympathize with him and I doubt he’ll have much trouble finding another gig. 
    Violation of an NDA in your history, is going be a little tricky to overcome.  Let alone with all the follow-up publicity.  He can probably get a job selling tools or paint at Home Depot, but I doubt he will ever be hirable in any firm developing some new groundbreaking product.
    As I understand it an employer (Apple in this case) can only verify the fact that he was employed and the dates of his employment -- not that he was fired/quit or why.

    Any difficulty he might encounter due to publicity is of his own (or his daughter's) doing.
    That's a salient point, but I think that companies often use social media when doing background checks to assess risk.


    ...Speaking of contracts...

    I was actually asked this question:  "Why can't I use the iPhone Upgrade Program to trade my iPhone 7 for a Pixel 2?"
    LOL I hope there's more to that story.
  • Reply 166 of 286
    dcgoo said:
    While we don’t know the details, sure a demotion of something could also be considered. But it’s not like Apple cut his finger off... Apple engineers can work anywhere they want. Many will sympathize with him and I doubt he’ll have much trouble finding another gig. 
    Violation of an NDA in your history, is going be a little tricky to overcome.  Let alone with all the follow-up publicity.  He can probably get a job selling tools or paint at Home Depot, but I doubt he will ever be hirable in any firm developing some new groundbreaking product.
    As I understand it an employer (Apple in this case) can only verify the fact that he was employed and the dates of his employment -- not that he was fired/quit or why.

    Any difficulty he might encounter due to publicity is of his own (or his daughter's) doing.
    If you have a reference, I would like to see it--not because I am trying to agree or disagree with you.  I would just like to have the information.

    HR departments only verify the employment.  A supervisor may provide additional information if contacted for a reference.  The company may have policies for providing references, though.  
    netmage
  • Reply 167 of 286
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    dcgoo said:
    While we don’t know the details, sure a demotion of something could also be considered. But it’s not like Apple cut his finger off... Apple engineers can work anywhere they want. Many will sympathize with him and I doubt he’ll have much trouble finding another gig. 
    Violation of an NDA in your history, is going be a little tricky to overcome.  Let alone with all the follow-up publicity.  He can probably get a job selling tools or paint at Home Depot, but I doubt he will ever be hirable in any firm developing some new groundbreaking product.
    As I understand it an employer (Apple in this case) can only verify the fact that he was employed and the dates of his employment -- not that he was fired/quit or why.

    Any difficulty he might encounter due to publicity is of his own (or his daughter's) doing.
    If you have a reference, I would like to see it--not because I am trying to agree or disagree with you.  I would just like to have the information.

    HR departments only verify the employment.  A supervisor may provide additional information if contacted for a reference.  The company may have policies for providing references, though.  
    Yes, that is correct, which is what he's saying in regards to an employer. When it comes to references I can't imagine people not choosing individuals they at least believe will be favorable to them.

    edited October 2017 bigbillygoatgruff
  • Reply 168 of 286
    I bet the competitors can't wait to snap him up. ;)
    edited October 2017 GeorgeBMacSoundJudgment
  • Reply 169 of 286
    Soli said:
    dcgoo said:
    While we don’t know the details, sure a demotion of something could also be considered. But it’s not like Apple cut his finger off... Apple engineers can work anywhere they want. Many will sympathize with him and I doubt he’ll have much trouble finding another gig. 
    Violation of an NDA in your history, is going be a little tricky to overcome.  Let alone with all the follow-up publicity.  He can probably get a job selling tools or paint at Home Depot, but I doubt he will ever be hirable in any firm developing some new groundbreaking product.
    As I understand it an employer (Apple in this case) can only verify the fact that he was employed and the dates of his employment -- not that he was fired/quit or why.

    Any difficulty he might encounter due to publicity is of his own (or his daughter's) doing.
    If you have a reference, I would like to see it--not because I am trying to agree or disagree with you.  I would just like to have the information.

    HR departments only verify the employment.  A supervisor may provide additional information if contacted for a reference.  The company may have policies for providing references, though.  
    Yes, that is correct, which is what he's saying. People tend to use references that they believe will be favorable to them.

    Wow, you're relentless. I'll give you that. 
    magman1979radarthekat
  • Reply 170 of 286
    dcgoo said:
    While we don’t know the details, sure a demotion of something could also be considered. But it’s not like Apple cut his finger off... Apple engineers can work anywhere they want. Many will sympathize with him and I doubt he’ll have much trouble finding another gig. 
    Violation of an NDA in your history, is going be a little tricky to overcome.  Let alone with all the follow-up publicity.  He can probably get a job selling tools or paint at Home Depot, but I doubt he will ever be hirable in any firm developing some new groundbreaking product.
    As I understand it an employer (Apple in this case) can only verify the fact that he was employed and the dates of his employment -- not that he was fired/quit or why.

    Any difficulty he might encounter due to publicity is of his own (or his daughter's) doing.
    If you have a reference, I would like to see it--not because I am trying to agree or disagree with you.  I would just like to have the information.

    HR departments only verify the employment.  A supervisor may provide additional information if contacted for a reference.  The company may have policies for providing references, though.  

    Likely, I am wrong!  When I worked at IBM they had a policy about what info they would provide about past employees.

    Edit:  Tho word travels fast in Silicon Valley!
    edited October 2017 SpamSandwich
  • Reply 171 of 286
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    dysamoria said:
    Soli said:
    Did the person who lost an iPhone 4 at a bar months before it was to be unveiled get fired?
    How about the person that uploaded the HomePod firmware that contained data on other unreleased Apple products?
    I think the person that uploaded the iOS 11 GM was a disgruntled employee, and while that part can't wholly be Apple's fault it's certainly Apple's fault for allowing an employee to add internet-facing files to their servers with secret URLs. They really need better security and likely a two-key system for uploading any new content, which would also have likely saved them from the HomePod firmware debacle.

    avon b7 said:
    From the information presented, I think the decision was harsh but perhaps there is more context that hasn't come out yet.
    What about the information already presented in the article strikes you as this move on Apple's part being 'harsh'?
    Clearly he referring to the engineer being fired. I agree that it appears harsh.

    There's literally no additional information to be had from this child's iPhone X video. Let's keep in mind that it was done the week of pre-orders and about 6 weeks after the device was already demoed in vivid detail by Apple. Based on the information presented I can't imagine firing this engineer over this one issue. If you had said, "Apple has a lot more information than we do and they felt it necessary to fire the engineer so who are we to say that they are wrong. It's their company and it's likely they didn't break any laws with letting the engineer go," that would be a very different response while still agreeing with Apple's firing of the employee. Instead you made a draconian implication that rules need to followed to the letter, that there's not room for gray areas or conscious consideration of the scope of an offense, and that punishments should be as brutal as possible in your initial comment. Maybe there were other circumstances, like other lapses I judgement which made this a final strike against him, but you made zero indication that this might simply be the final straw on the camel's back in your original comment. I can't agree with such despotic ways of thinking.
    It's amazing how so many tech people side with "liberty" and slam government "control and overreach", but will still side with and promote draconian corporate policy in discussions of public issues between a company and an employee... so long as they're not the employee themselves.

    Things are rarely so black and white as "you broke the rule and deserve whatever punishment is dealt", but these guys seem to be comfortable with nothing but. The second someone suggests that an employee's mistake might be better handled with grace and kindness instead of abrupt dismissal, the corporate fascists start using phrases like "victim card", "rules are rules", and demonstrating a callousness that suggests that they might make horrible vindictive employers themselves (or hoping to see everyone else treated with as much callous disregard as they themselves have been treated somewhere in their own personal histories). 
    Insightful -- and well spoken!
    Soli
  • Reply 172 of 286
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    I wonder how many of the fools here claiming:  "Rules is rules -- Fire his ass!" have gotten warnings instead of a ticket from a cop after breaking a rule?

    For these people, rules generally only apply to those "other" people who break rules.....
    Nice try.  I doubt anyone considers all rules to be of equal importance with equal penalties.  If safeguarding sensitive information is a condition of your employment and you demonstrate an inability or an unwillingness to do so, you are not employable.

    You can still feel empathy for the guy while believing his termination was reasonable.  He is a human being with feelings.  It hurts to lose a job no matter what the circumstances. 
    Good Excuse!   Very good!
    ...  I wonder which one you would have chosen had it been your kid?
  • Reply 173 of 286
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    dysamoria said:
    Soli said:
    Did the person who lost an iPhone 4 at a bar months before it was to be unveiled get fired?
    How about the person that uploaded the HomePod firmware that contained data on other unreleased Apple products?
    I think the person that uploaded the iOS 11 GM was a disgruntled employee, and while that part can't wholly be Apple's fault it's certainly Apple's fault for allowing an employee to add internet-facing files to their servers with secret URLs. They really need better security and likely a two-key system for uploading any new content, which would also have likely saved them from the HomePod firmware debacle.

    avon b7 said:
    From the information presented, I think the decision was harsh but perhaps there is more context that hasn't come out yet.
    What about the information already presented in the article strikes you as this move on Apple's part being 'harsh'?
    Clearly he referring to the engineer being fired. I agree that it appears harsh.

    There's literally no additional information to be had from this child's iPhone X video. Let's keep in mind that it was done the week of pre-orders and about 6 weeks after the device was already demoed in vivid detail by Apple. Based on the information presented I can't imagine firing this engineer over this one issue. If you had said, "Apple has a lot more information than we do and they felt it necessary to fire the engineer so who are we to say that they are wrong. It's their company and it's likely they didn't break any laws with letting the engineer go," that would be a very different response while still agreeing with Apple's firing of the employee. Instead you made a draconian implication that rules need to followed to the letter, that there's not room for gray areas or conscious consideration of the scope of an offense, and that punishments should be as brutal as possible in your initial comment. Maybe there were other circumstances, like other lapses I judgement which made this a final strike against him, but you made zero indication that this might simply be the final straw on the camel's back in your original comment. I can't agree with such despotic ways of thinking.
    It's amazing how so many tech people side with "liberty" and slam government "control and overreach", but will still side with and promote draconian corporate policy in discussions of public issues between a company and an employee... so long as they're not the employee themselves.

    Things are rarely so black and white as "you broke the rule and deserve whatever punishment is dealt", but these guys seem to be comfortable with nothing but. The second someone suggests that an employee's mistake might be better handled with grace and kindness instead of abrupt dismissal, the corporate fascists start using phrases like "victim card", "rules are rules", and demonstrating a callousness that suggests that they might make horrible vindictive employers themselves (or hoping to see everyone else treated with as much callous disregard as they themselves have been treated somewhere in their own personal histories). 
    Rule of law = "corporate fascists"? Wow. 'Nuff said. 

    /rolleyes 
    Yes!  He said it very well!
    ...  Sorry you feel it doesn't apply to you.  But, the people he was talking about tend to live under delusions like yours...
    Soli
  • Reply 174 of 286
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tomhq said:
    MicDorsey said:
    Of course, I am not privy to the details of the fathers error beyond the article. But, all parties could come out ahead by making this incident a teachable moment where this apparently well respected employee could continue in some capacity at Apple. All employees, management and the public in general would benefit from witnessing Apple again as an entity with a compassionate corporate ethos and yet would reaffirm and strengthen their policy against this breach internally.  Being that it is a public problem now, the family is contrite, remorseful and apologetic and are still clearly Apple boosters, all parties can gain in an Apple PR sensitive move. The Public beyond Apple will be watching this in hopes of slinging arrows at Apple, as always.
    Teachable moment? Are you kidding me?? Oh wait, you're confusing "slings and arrows" with "slinging arrows," so you don't really have a clue anyway.
    It is very much a teachable moment - violating a signed contract and showing irresponsible behavior will cost you your job.  ;)
    Yep!   Isn't that why Apple fired that jerk Steve Jobs too?   He was the epitome being irresponsible and incapable of adhering to rules...  
    Soli
  • Reply 175 of 286
    baconstangbaconstang Posts: 1,130member
    Dcgoo said:  " He can probably get a job selling tools or paint at Home Depot, but I doubt he will ever be hirable in any firm developing some new groundbreaking product."

    So, Samsung sounds like a good fit.
  • Reply 176 of 286
    His phone reportedly blow up after Samsung called him repeatedly.
  • Reply 177 of 286
    pscooter63pscooter63 Posts: 1,080member
    dysamoria said:
    It's amazing how so many tech people side with "liberty" and slam government "control and overreach", but will still side with and promote draconian corporate policy in discussions of public issues between a company and an employee... so long as they're not the employee themselves.

    Things are rarely so black and white as "you broke the rule and deserve whatever punishment is dealt", but these guys seem to be comfortable with nothing but.
    Clearly, you’ve never been in a position to sign an NDA.  I have, they ARE black and white, and for very good reasons already articulated far better than I could hope to

    All the emotionalism and hand-wringing on display here is simply ill-informed.
    baconstangbigbillygoatgruffnetmagemacseekerradarthekat
  • Reply 178 of 286
    Apple has reportedly fired an engineer who worked on iPhone X after his daughter posted a hands-on video of the device to YouTube, breaking the company's non-disclosure agreement policies.




    Last week, Brooke Amelia Peterson posted a short hands-on video of Apple's hotly anticipated smartphone to her YouTube channel, showing off Apple Pay and a few iPhone X exclusive user interface features.

    Thanks to hype leading up to the phone's release, the "in the wild" clip shot in the Caffe Macs restaurant on Apple's campus, quickly garnered media attention. Apple subsequently called for its removal, a request with which Peterson complied, but not before the footage went viral.

    In a post to her YouTube channel on Saturday, Peterson claims Apple was forced to fire her father over the incident. Company rules strictly prohibit the documenting of unreleased hardware, whether it be photos, video or descriptions of device features. Unauthorized filming on Apple property is also verboten.

    "Apple let him go," Peterson said. "At the end of the day, when you work for Apple, it doesn't matter how good of a person you are, if you break a rule they just have no tolerance."

    Apple's strict NDA policy is in place not only to ensure the security of proprietary technology, but also for employee safety.


    image


    The device in question was an internal development unit that carried sensitive information like employee QR codes, product codenames and internal software, including a Text Edit app.

    According to The Verge, the elder Peterson worked on iPhone RF and wireless circuit design prior to his dismissal. Prior reports claim the engineer was scheduled to make the move to Apple's new Apple Park campus in December.

    Apple has not responded to requests for comment.

    Peterson said her father takes full responsibility for the turn of events, adding that her family holds no animosity toward the company.
    No stupid chick..don’t blame Apple...YOU and only YOU caused your father to get fired.  Be glad they didn’t sue him to boot.  Are you going to drive an Uber to make up the family financial deficit because you wanted to be popular and/or get hits?
    baconstangmacseekerappleinsiderfanksec
  • Reply 179 of 286
    techno said:
    ... A reasonable person might ask how much it would have really cost Apple to ensure that phones could not film without first obtaining a code number or other authorization and what precautions were taken to assist employees with authorized visitors in complying with the security policies.
    Huh? What do you mean? The video was shot by another phone. Or do you mean some magical power that makes the not-yet-released-phone invisible to cameras?

    The real person that should be focussed on is the daughter. She is the one that made the stupid decision to make this video and post it. How could she not realize this would get her dad in trouble?
    Because she is a self ansorbed fool.
    baconstangmacseeker
  • Reply 180 of 286
    I wonder how many of the fools here claiming:  "Rules is rules -- Fire his ass!" have gotten warnings instead of a ticket from a cop after breaking a rule?

    For these people, rules generally only apply to those "other" people who break rules.....
    Nice try.  I doubt anyone considers all rules to be of equal importance with equal penalties.  If safeguarding sensitive information is a condition of your employment and you demonstrate an inability or an unwillingness to do so, you are not employable.

    You can still feel empathy for the guy while believing his termination was reasonable.  He is a human being with feelings.  It hurts to lose a job no matter what the circumstances. 
    Good Excuse!   Very good!
    ...  I wonder which one you would have chosen had it been your kid?
    What does that even mean?  I would be an unloving father for not violating the terms of my agreement for my adult daughter?  This was not a life safety situation. 
    netmagemagman1979SpamSandwich
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