Same for me: all my data on my ex MobileMe account, now iCloud, and all my purchases on another one. At least they should provide a way to transfer (i.e.: move) purchases, that is, apps and music. Then I would be happy. Or maybe some kind of tight account link in the same vein as Family Sharing but sharing both account purchases, that would be a step in the right direction. Today, the only solution is to give up your old account and re purchase everything. Crazy... "It just works" as they say...
My main problem with this situation is how will I be able to implement Family Sharing to share both purchases and iCloud Photos and storage: will I be able to use Family Sharing on both accounts, one for data and the other for purchases, or will I have to choose only one (obviously data and storage) and repurchase my stuff in the long run...?
EDIT: typo.
Same issue with me. I have several thousand $$ worth of content as well as my Apple developer account bound to my iTunes Apple ID but all my iCloud services like storage and Photos bound to my iCloud Apple ID. When I've spoken with Apple they've told me that they cannot redirect my iTunes account content to my iCloud account. They are very adamant about this.
I can't really make a full statement about Family Sharing because I haven't figured out all of the intricacies of how it is supposed to work versus how it appears to be working. I do know that App purchases that I make through the App Store do take advantage of Family Sharing. With macOS High Sierra 10.13 I am able to share my iCloud Storage with Family Sharing which is nice. In fact, when I flipped the switch on Family Sharing of my storage plan Apple refunded me the payments that were made by the other family member who had their own separate storage plan. Apple Music is not shared unless you purchase a family plan. Not sure about iTunes music purchases, but I believe they follow the same rules as App purchases and are shared. If you have the Music in the Cloud (Match) feature things get murky because there is a hard limit on the number of devices (10) that can participate. I haven't tried adding another family member's device to this service so I don't know whether it works.
Apple Photos is another story altogether. The storage of Photos content (pictures & videos) is associated with an iCloud account and not an iTunes account. However, the association of Photos content to iCloud is very "loose" compared to App Store content. Depending on your Photos optimization settings you can also have Photos content stored locally on your devices. The "loose" association of Photos content with iCloud can cause some very unexpected surprises. For example, if you decide to hand off one of your old iOS devices to a family member and want to save them from having to re-download all the sharable iCloud (and iTunes I suppose) content on the device you may try to do something like log out of your iCloud account and have them log into their iCloud account, expecting iCloud to simply figure out who "owns" what and switch everything over to their own iCloud content. Unfortunately, whether by design or due to buggy software, after flipping iCloud accounts on the device, Photos and its iCloud storage will see the locally cached Photos content on the device and associate this content with the newly activated iCloud account - to the point of merging content from two separate iCloud Photos libraries together. This can cause massive grief, especially when the new owner of the device sees tens of thousands of pictures that they didn't take suddenly dumped into their Photos library. Bad bad bad. To avoid this you should always completely wipe the data from a device you are transferring ownership of, even when the new owner is a family member. I'm not overly alarmed by this only because iOS devices are not multi-user and this behavior is an artifact of the single-user design decision. As newer iOS devices, especially the massively capable new iPad Pros, become the norm I hope Apple makes them multi-user capable by default.
First of all, thanks for your detailed answer.
I particularly liked your sentence: "I can't really make a full statement about Family Sharing because I haven't figured out all of the intricacies of how it is supposed to work versus how it appears to be working." Made me LOL, as I have a hard time figuring out those things as well.
I will soon be in a position to actually implement Family Sharing, so I would like to grasp how to do it properly, not replicating a situation like this dual account mess.
I have a last question... When you explain your app purchases take advantage of Family Sharing as expected: are these app purchases made through your iCloud account or through your other "iTunes Apple ID"? Another user above, @Bshank, seems to imply the purchases of both accounts should be available through Family Sharing but I may have misunderstood him.
I’m sure there are millions like myself who started purchasing iTunes content before getting an Apple ID, and thus are now still forced to have two separate accounts in order to keep the previous content. Which of course now means that my Apple Music ID is still a stupid Gmail account as well.
How did you purchase iTunes content without an Apple ID?
Huh?! When the iPod was introduced and iTunes and the iTunes store was created, any email address was fine to open your account. The iPhone was still a twinkle in Steve's eye. Nobody could foresee that we would eventually want to merge everything into one user ID. I'm not even sure Apple had email domains back then. (I could be wrong). Fast forward and now we are stuck with a separate user id and log in requirement for all our iTunes purchases.
Now she's upset because her friends are confused that "Messages" to her go to xx@verizon.net but email is to yy@gmail.com and they're all confused. And this is Apple's fault.
How is it Apple’s fault? She’ll just add yy@gmail.com to iMessage receiving addresses.
“Anyone who creates an AppleID as something other than "@icloud.com" is just asking for trouble.“
Maybe just the opposite is true. If you use @icloud.com as your AppleID you make it more guessable and prone to attacks.
I have a last question... When you explain your app purchases take advantage of Family Sharing as expected: are these app purchases made through your iCloud account or through your other "iTunes Apple ID"? Another user above, @Bshank, seems to imply the purchases of both accounts should be available through Family Sharing but I may have misunderstood him.
Apple knows that I have two (2) Apple IDs and consolidates the Family Sharing behind the scenes and is managed via Preferences/Settings/iCloud on my Mac. When I open the previously identified settings dialog and select Manage Family it shows me as the Organizer under my Apple ID that I created for MobileMe which later morphed into my iCloud Apple ID, which I call my iCloud Apple ID. There are two (2) tabs on this dialog: Family Members and My Apps & Services.
The Family Members tab shows the organizer (me) and family members. The Apple ID associated with me is my iCloud Apple ID. However, on the right side of the dialog the Purchases and Music section lists my Apple ID that I originally created for iTunes music/book purchases, which I call my iTunes Apple ID.
The My Apps & Services tab has four (4) sections: Purchase Sharing, Apple Music, iCloud Storage, and Location Sharing.
The Purchase Sharing section again shows my iTunes Apple ID and the checkbox to enable family sharing of apps, music, movies, and books that are purchased via iTunes, along with payment info.
The Apple Music section (apparently) shows whether you have purchased a single or family plan. In fact, mine does not show that I have a single plan but instead includes a button to allow me to purchase a family plan. Odd.
The iCloud Storage section shows my current storage plan along with usage metrics and a button to enable or disable family sharing of my iCloud storage plan. This is where you flip the switch to share a storage plan. Keep in mind that you're buying capacity and not a storage device, so flipping this over to the family setting does not involve anything physically being copied or moved.
The Location Sharing section here is just for Find My Friends and Messages, not location sharing in general. I guess they needed somewhere to stick it and putting it under your iCloud settings was as good as anywhere else.
In summary, having two Apple IDs does not hurt your family sharing in any way. You can still do everything you want to do. But it creates an oddity of having two Apple IDs that are not simple aliases. Each Apple ID is a moniker for a different set of identification scenarios that covey certain privileges/authorizations. The way Apple lays everything out in the iCloud settings configuration dialogs implies that they have very clear and distinct knowledge about the two IDs being bound and even exhibiting a certain parent-child relationship. Still, Apple will not allow these two IDs to be collapsed into a single ID or even treated as aliases. I still get periodically queried to supply an Apple ID set of credentials and I need to always discern between which one it is asking for, in addition to remembering two login ids and passwords. Not a really BFD, but still an annoyance.
No wonder I don’t remember it. Thanks. They really need to get on this. I’m happy that they’ve tried to make having two accounts as seamless as possible, but they honestly need to fix this ASAP.
I’m sure there are millions like myself who started purchasing iTunes content before getting an Apple ID, and thus are now still forced to have two separate accounts in order to keep the previous content. Which of course now means that my Apple Music ID is still a stupid Gmail account as well.
How did you purchase iTunes content without an Apple ID?
Huh?! When the iPod was introduced and iTunes and the iTunes store was created, any email address was fine to open your account. The iPhone was still a twinkle in Steve's eye. Nobody could foresee that we would eventually want to merge everything into one user ID. I'm not even sure Apple had email domains back then. (I could be wrong). Fast forward and now we are stuck with a separate user id and log in requirement for all our iTunes purchases.
So it's still an Apple ID, it just uses a name that reflects a non-Apple email address.
I’m sure there are millions like myself who started purchasing iTunes content before getting an Apple ID, and thus are now still forced to have two separate accounts in order to keep the previous content. Which of course now means that my Apple Music ID is still a stupid Gmail account as well.
How did you purchase iTunes content without an Apple ID?
Huh?! When the iPod was introduced and iTunes and the iTunes store was created, any email address was fine to open your account. The iPhone was still a twinkle in Steve's eye. Nobody could foresee that we would eventually want to merge everything into one user ID. I'm not even sure Apple had email domains back then. (I could be wrong). Fast forward and now we are stuck with a separate user id and log in requirement for all our iTunes purchases.
Exactly. It's ridiculous. It almost makes sense though if you think about who the person in charge of seeing that this gets done is. Hmm, who is the person in charge of Apple services...?
No wonder I don’t remember it. Thanks. They really need to get on this. I’m happy that they’ve tried to make having two accounts as seamless as possible, but they honestly need to fix this ASAP.
Agreed. This is incredibly neglectful on Apple's part, and very frustrating. I really thought the change in file system was the key, and so I patiently waited (to be disappointed again).
I dug up an article from 2011 (yes, 2011) where Apple has been working on this, and had even been emailing users about it. I think the original source was MR.
I’m sure there are millions like myself who started purchasing iTunes content before getting an Apple ID, and thus are now still forced to have two separate accounts in order to keep the previous content. Which of course now means that my Apple Music ID is still a stupid Gmail account as well.
How did you purchase iTunes content without an Apple ID?
Huh?! When the iPod was introduced and iTunes and the iTunes store was created, any email address was fine to open your account. The iPhone was still a twinkle in Steve's eye. Nobody could foresee that we would eventually want to merge everything into one user ID. I'm not even sure Apple had email domains back then. (I could be wrong). Fast forward and now we are stuck with a separate user id and log in requirement for all our iTunes purchases.
When you change your Apple ID to an @icloud.com, @me.com, or @mac.com account, you can't change it back to a third-party email account. Your former Apple ID that ends with a third-party email, becomes an additional email address for your Apple ID account.
The change should be a boon for users, especially platform switchers, who used a non-Apple email address to set up their Apple ID account before transitioning to Apple's suite of services.
This sounds like a covert way to retain customers to stick with Apple’s devices and services forever and ever.
Apple must hate email. I wish they made a revolutionary email service. Email feels so old and outdated, I know someone can innovate in this space.
A Messages account could be a suitable substitute for email. Services probably don't like to use phone messaging as it needs a cell number, which is fairly permanent and can be used to call and video message people. This is easily overcome using additional IDs so someone with a Messages account would generate a forwarding ID and give that to people. If they don't want the messages any more, they just cancel the forwarder and the sender/service would only store the forwarding address, which Apple would use to direct the messages. The ID could be anything but it can use regional codes to help avoid odd numbering after names. They can prevent the use of @ to allow validated email addresses to be used as the ID. The apps are limited to Apple devices but it's just a service so they can offer an API to allow this to work on anything. 3rd party developers will implement it. This also means it can work transparently when you change phone number.
The ID would have options to allow calling/video or not. This means instead of needing a Skype account for video, a WhatsApp account for messaging, an email address for work/personal, you just have one service with IDs for each purpose. Businesses would likely use email addresses as the generated ID. When you start working at a company, they can just give you one email and you can use this ID to setup every communication channel. There would have to be an optional special setup for businesses as they tend to want to keep records of messages, this would just need an admin account on the business side.
Email likely won't ever go away because it offers self-hosted messaging where people can control everything themselves to maintain confidentiality. Apple uses end-to-end encryption so it's secure but the delivery is out of people's hands. If Apple's messaging goes down, so does their communication channel. It's the easiest option for Apple IDs (for people in the Apple ecosystem) and developers can register accounts under the same root ID so no need to have separate emails for developer logins and iTunes logins. Multiple store accounts can be registered under the same root ID too so that purchases from international stores work ok.
Apple must hate email. I wish they made a revolutionary email service. Email feels so old and outdated, I know someone can innovate in this space.
A Messages account could be a suitable substitute for email. Services probably don't like to use phone messaging as it needs a cell number, which is fairly permanent and can be used to call and video message people. This is easily overcome using additional IDs so someone with a Messages account would generate a forwarding ID and give that to people. If they don't want the messages any more, they just cancel the forwarder and the sender/service would only store the forwarding address, which Apple would use to direct the messages. The ID could be anything but it can use regional codes to help avoid odd numbering after names. They can prevent the use of @ to allow validated email addresses to be used as the ID. The apps are limited to Apple devices but it's just a service so they can offer an API to allow this to work on anything. 3rd party developers will implement it. This also means it can work transparently when you change phone number.
The ID would have options to allow calling/video or not. This means instead of needing a Skype account for video, a WhatsApp account for messaging, an email address for work/personal, you just have one service with IDs for each purpose. Businesses would likely use email addresses as the generated ID. When you start working at a company, they can just give you one email and you can use this ID to setup every communication channel. There would have to be an optional special setup for businesses as they tend to want to keep records of messages, this would just need an admin account on the business side.
Email likely won't ever go away because it offers self-hosted messaging where people can control everything themselves to maintain confidentiality. Apple uses end-to-end encryption so it's secure but the delivery is out of people's hands. If Apple's messaging goes down, so does their communication channel. It's the easiest option for Apple IDs (for people in the Apple ecosystem) and developers can register accounts under the same root ID so no need to have separate emails for developer logins and iTunes logins. Multiple store accounts can be registered under the same root ID too so that purchases from international stores work ok.
Hey Marvin, maybe AI could do a ‘how to’ report on changing Apple ID email addresses.
Doea anyone know if you have to create a whole new @icloud address or if you can just add your existing one?
dewme said: I still get periodically queried to supply an Apple ID set of credentials and I need to always discern between which one it is asking for, in addition to remembering two login ids and passwords. Not a really BFD, but still an annoyance.
Knock on wood, but after fighting with this for a year or two, it seems to have finally cleared up. I'm not sure if it's something I did, or updates to iOS/macOS. I did quite a bit... resetting it anywhere I could... deleting and re-syncing apps like Calendar and Contacts (nervously), etc. The problem for me, was that it had an old email-address/password combo stuck in it somewhere that wasn't available any longer. So, when it popped up one of those dialogs, I had to cancel (if I could) and then try to fix it. But, that old email seemed baked into various apps and settings instead of referencing the main settings. If I were to guess... it probably cost me several dozen hours of messing around, let alone the inconvenience.
I just tried to change my gmail account to my iCloud account and the system will not allow it. I get an error message stating I can’t use iCloud addresses.
you can't switch a gmail etc to an existing iCloud because that would require merging existing accounts which still can't be done
Apple must hate email. I wish they made a revolutionary email service. Email feels so old and outdated, I know someone can innovate in this space.
A Messages account could be a suitable substitute for email. Services probably don't like to use phone messaging as it needs a cell number, which is fairly permanent and can be used to call and video message people. This is easily overcome using additional IDs so someone with a Messages account would generate a forwarding ID and give that to people. If they don't want the messages any more, they just cancel the forwarder and the sender/service would only store the forwarding address, which Apple would use to direct the messages. The ID could be anything but it can use regional codes to help avoid odd numbering after names. They can prevent the use of @ to allow validated email addresses to be used as the ID. The apps are limited to Apple devices but it's just a service so they can offer an API to allow this to work on anything. 3rd party developers will implement it. This also means it can work transparently when you change phone number.
The ID would have options to allow calling/video or not. This means instead of needing a Skype account for video, a WhatsApp account for messaging, an email address for work/personal, you just have one service with IDs for each purpose. Businesses would likely use email addresses as the generated ID. When you start working at a company, they can just give you one email and you can use this ID to setup every communication channel. There would have to be an optional special setup for businesses as they tend to want to keep records of messages, this would just need an admin account on the business side.
Email likely won't ever go away because it offers self-hosted messaging where people can control everything themselves to maintain confidentiality. Apple uses end-to-end encryption so it's secure but the delivery is out of people's hands. If Apple's messaging goes down, so does their communication channel. It's the easiest option for Apple IDs (for people in the Apple ecosystem) and developers can register accounts under the same root ID so no need to have separate emails for developer logins and iTunes logins. Multiple store accounts can be registered under the same root ID too so that purchases from international stores work ok.
That's essentially a technical solution to a sociological problem...
For myself, I would resist: I already keep a home phone line for a single purpose: to take spam/junk calls -- and as such it rings several times a day -- with about one out of ten even leaving a message and even fewer that I have any interest in. Likewise, I have been forced to use two separate email accounts: one for spam/junk messages and the other for meaningful messages that I need to see. The junk account receives close to 100 junk messages a day.
I don't want that scenario to transfer over to my cell phone -- either in the form of audio calls, video calls or messages. As such I am very careful who I give my cell number to and I sincerely hope it doesn't become another channel to distribute junk and spam....
Apple must hate email. I wish they made a revolutionary email service. Email feels so old and outdated, I know someone can innovate in this space.
A Messages account could be a suitable substitute for email. Services probably don't like to use phone messaging as it needs a cell number, which is fairly permanent and can be used to call and video message people. This is easily overcome using additional IDs so someone with a Messages account would generate a forwarding ID and give that to people. If they don't want the messages any more, they just cancel the forwarder and the sender/service would only store the forwarding address, which Apple would use to direct the messages. The ID could be anything but it can use regional codes to help avoid odd numbering after names. They can prevent the use of @ to allow validated email addresses to be used as the ID. The apps are limited to Apple devices but it's just a service so they can offer an API to allow this to work on anything. 3rd party developers will implement it. This also means it can work transparently when you change phone number.
The ID would have options to allow calling/video or not. This means instead of needing a Skype account for video, a WhatsApp account for messaging, an email address for work/personal, you just have one service with IDs for each purpose. Businesses would likely use email addresses as the generated ID. When you start working at a company, they can just give you one email and you can use this ID to setup every communication channel. There would have to be an optional special setup for businesses as they tend to want to keep records of messages, this would just need an admin account on the business side.
Email likely won't ever go away because it offers self-hosted messaging where people can control everything themselves to maintain confidentiality. Apple uses end-to-end encryption so it's secure but the delivery is out of people's hands. If Apple's messaging goes down, so does their communication channel. It's the easiest option for Apple IDs (for people in the Apple ecosystem) and developers can register accounts under the same root ID so no need to have separate emails for developer logins and iTunes logins. Multiple store accounts can be registered under the same root ID too so that purchases from international stores work ok.
That's essentially a technical solution to a sociological problem...
For myself, I would resist: I already keep a home phone line for a single purpose: to take spam/junk calls -- and as such it rings several times a day -- with about one out of ten even leaving a message and even fewer that I have any interest in. Likewise, I have been forced to use two separate email accounts: one for spam/junk messages and the other for meaningful messages that I need to see. The junk account receives close to 100 junk messages a day.
I don't want that scenario to transfer over to my cell phone -- either in the form of audio calls, video calls or messages. As such I am very careful who I give my cell number to and I sincerely hope it doesn't become another channel to distribute junk and spam....
If that’s the only reason, there are free phone numbers out there that could save you whatever your landline costs. You even get email transcripts so you don’t have to listen to whatever voicemail is being left
Comments
I particularly liked your sentence: "I can't really make a full statement about Family Sharing because I haven't figured out all of the intricacies of how it is supposed to work versus how it appears to be working." Made me LOL, as I have a hard time figuring out those things as well.
I will soon be in a position to actually implement Family Sharing, so I would like to grasp how to do it properly, not replicating a situation like this dual account mess.
I have a last question... When you explain your app purchases take advantage of Family Sharing as expected: are these app purchases made through your iCloud account or through your other "iTunes Apple ID"? Another user above, @Bshank, seems to imply the purchases of both accounts should be available through Family Sharing but I may have misunderstood him.
“Anyone who creates an AppleID as something other than "@icloud.com" is just asking for trouble.“
Maybe just the opposite is true. If you use @icloud.com as your AppleID you make it more guessable and prone to attacks.
The Family Members tab shows the organizer (me) and family members. The Apple ID associated with me is my iCloud Apple ID. However, on the right side of the dialog the Purchases and Music section lists my Apple ID that I originally created for iTunes music/book purchases, which I call my iTunes Apple ID.
The My Apps & Services tab has four (4) sections: Purchase Sharing, Apple Music, iCloud Storage, and Location Sharing.
The Purchase Sharing section again shows my iTunes Apple ID and the checkbox to enable family sharing of apps, music, movies, and books that are purchased via iTunes, along with payment info.
The Apple Music section (apparently) shows whether you have purchased a single or family plan. In fact, mine does not show that I have a single plan but instead includes a button to allow me to purchase a family plan. Odd.
The iCloud Storage section shows my current storage plan along with usage metrics and a button to enable or disable family sharing of my iCloud storage plan. This is where you flip the switch to share a storage plan. Keep in mind that you're buying capacity and not a storage device, so flipping this over to the family setting does not involve anything physically being copied or moved.
The Location Sharing section here is just for Find My Friends and Messages, not location sharing in general. I guess they needed somewhere to stick it and putting it under your iCloud settings was as good as anywhere else.
In summary, having two Apple IDs does not hurt your family sharing in any way. You can still do everything you want to do. But it creates an oddity of having two Apple IDs that are not simple aliases. Each Apple ID is a moniker for a different set of identification scenarios that covey certain privileges/authorizations. The way Apple lays everything out in the iCloud settings configuration dialogs implies that they have very clear and distinct knowledge about the two IDs being bound and even exhibiting a certain parent-child relationship. Still, Apple will not allow these two IDs to be collapsed into a single ID or even treated as aliases. I still get periodically queried to supply an Apple ID set of credentials and I need to always discern between which one it is asking for, in addition to remembering two login ids and passwords. Not a really BFD, but still an annoyance.
Agreed. This is incredibly neglectful on Apple's part, and very frustrating. I really thought the change in file system was the key, and so I patiently waited (to be disappointed again).
I dug up an article from 2011 (yes, 2011) where Apple has been working on this, and had even been emailing users about it. I think the original source was MR.
http://https//www.cultofmac.com/114106/apple-to-introduce-account-merging-for-multiple-apple-ids/
iTunes Music Store — 28 April 2003
It also sounds with so many reporting the same thing that there is more to this story....
The ID would have options to allow calling/video or not. This means instead of needing a Skype account for video, a WhatsApp account for messaging, an email address for work/personal, you just have one service with IDs for each purpose. Businesses would likely use email addresses as the generated ID. When you start working at a company, they can just give you one email and you can use this ID to setup every communication channel. There would have to be an optional special setup for businesses as they tend to want to keep records of messages, this would just need an admin account on the business side.
Email likely won't ever go away because it offers self-hosted messaging where people can control everything themselves to maintain confidentiality. Apple uses end-to-end encryption so it's secure but the delivery is out of people's hands. If Apple's messaging goes down, so does their communication channel. It's the easiest option for Apple IDs (for people in the Apple ecosystem) and developers can register accounts under the same root ID so no need to have separate emails for developer logins and iTunes logins. Multiple store accounts can be registered under the same root ID too so that purchases from international stores work ok.
Doea anyone know if you have to create a whole new @icloud address or if you can just add your existing one?
For myself, I would resist:
I already keep a home phone line for a single purpose: to take spam/junk calls -- and as such it rings several times a day -- with about one out of ten even leaving a message and even fewer that I have any interest in.
Likewise, I have been forced to use two separate email accounts: one for spam/junk messages and the other for meaningful messages that I need to see. The junk account receives close to 100 junk messages a day.
I don't want that scenario to transfer over to my cell phone -- either in the form of audio calls, video calls or messages. As such I am very careful who I give my cell number to and I sincerely hope it doesn't become another channel to distribute junk and spam....