EU presses Apple for details on latest tax arrangements in wake of Paradise Papers

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 82
    abriden said:
    Amazing, not a single comment that actually condemns Apple for its morally reprehensible approach to taxation. The legalities may be contentious, but damn it, the ethics that Apple and other global companies, super-rich individuals and organised crime (what great bedfellows) use are beneath contempt.

    Bshank ...suggesting that Apple should cut and run is missing the point. Firstly, Apple are not paying enough tax so they do not have the moral high-ground here, even over the rightly despised EU; Secondly, you clearly have no idea of what the EU market is worth to Apple. 

    For those who defend the likes of Apple, think how many more teachers, hospital beds, police and firemen, carers, etc your country could afford if these organisations paid their way properly and honestly.
    Amazing. Someone who registered and made their first post just to assert that Apple is “morally reprehensible” because they are organizing their finances to reduce the taxes they are obliged to pay.  If you’re in the US, I hope you are morally consistent and don’t put any money in tax-favored investments or take advantage of tax deductions. 
    I fail to see how the number of posts I've made is relevant. What is morally wrong is that these companies are failing to pay tax on massive profits by using secret mechanisms to obscure profits and offset them against unspecified fees that are completely unsubstantiated.
    gatorguyfrankie
  • Reply 22 of 82

    abriden said:
    Amazing, not a single comment that actually condemns Apple for its morally reprehensible approach to taxation. The legalities may be contentious, but damn it, the ethics that Apple and other global companies, super-rich individuals and organised crime (what great bedfellows) use are beneath contempt.


    That's because they have a moral and legal obligation to their shareholders which supersedes any imaginary obligation to pay taxes that they aren't required to pay.

    If you want to blame someone, blame your lawmakers.  They're the ones who created the loopholes, mostly for the benefit of their friends and cronies.  Now, when someone they don't like takes advantage of those same loopholes, they get all high horsed.

    The tax avoidance schemes are based on the dishonest manipulation of profits between 'legal entities' with barely more than a business-address offshore rather than 'real businesses' with infrastructure and genuine costs — that only remains legal because the companies in question are allowed to lie about the costs they are offsetting.
    frankie
  • Reply 23 of 82
    American voters should understand that Congress will always find a way to spend every last dollar sent to Washington.
    American voters should also understand that economic growth = increased spending into the economy. If the government doesn't spend the tax revenue collected and the private sector hoards profit, stagnates wage growth, and cuts benefits...that's a significant drag on growth. Look at China. They didn't tax cut their way to growth. They committed gigantic amounts of money to infrastructure spending for multiple decades. Infrastructure spending delivers far more bang for the buck than tax cuts. 
    edited November 2017 gatorguyfrankie
  • Reply 24 of 82
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,305member
    fred1 said:
    So much EU bashing, and why?  Do you live in the EU? (Have you ever even been to an EU country?). Did you say that the US shouldn’t exist when Congress was supposedly investigating where Aplle stashes its profits?

    These EU officials are doing their job: enforcing the tax laws. Why does this seem so strange to you?
    Yes. You are right. I commented in another thread on exactly what the commissioner has said now someone tried to claim I was using 'weasel' words. LOL.

    All of this is being investigated as we speak. The amount of documents in this leak is vast, so vast that the work will take time to be carried out. We have already seen some prickly documents.

    While all the information is verified and cross referenced, the commissioners and ministers of member states will formerly require the individuals and companies to 'fill in any gaps' on previous declarations in the cases of open investigations. 

    We will see, much further down the line, just how legal the actions of those involved is, but in the case of Apple they have taken a battering in public opinion through the revelations in the press. That is precisely why Apple made a statement in the first place.

    Some people seem to be having trouble accepting this, others just hate the EU.

    I would be worried if the EU didn't do anything. You can be sure the US is also perusing the documents too.

    Trying to make out this hasn't been a PR nightmare is frankly difficult to understand.

    edited November 2017 singularity
  • Reply 25 of 82
    Margrethe Vestager”? You mean that’s not a picture of George Clooney in drag?
  • Reply 26 of 82
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,984member
    avon b7 said:
    fred1 said:
    So much EU bashing, and why?  Do you live in the EU? (Have you ever even been to an EU country?). Did you say that the US shouldn’t exist when Congress was supposedly investigating where Aplle stashes its profits?

    These EU officials are doing their job: enforcing the tax laws. Why does this seem so strange to you?
    Yes. You are right. I commented in another thread on exactly what the commissioner has said now someone tried to claim I was using 'weasel' words. LOL.

    All of this is being investigated as we speak. The amount of documents in this leak is vast, so vast that the work will take time to be carried out. We have already seen some prickly documents.

    While all the information is verified and cross referenced, the commissioners and ministers of member states will formerly require the individuals and companies to 'fill in any gaps' on previous declarations in the cases of open investigations. 

    We will see, much further down the line, just how legal the actions of those involved is, but in the case of Apple they have taken a battering in public opinion through the revelations in the press. That is precisely why Apple made a statement in the first place.

    Some people seem to be having trouble accepting this, others just hate the EU.

    I would be worried if the EU didn't do anything. You can be sure the US is also perusing the documents too.

    Trying to make out this hasn't been a PR nightmare is frankly difficult to understand.

    It's not a surprise, its not a PR nightmare, it's completely legal, the U.S. isn't going to do anything about this, but thanks to you, as usual, for pumping up the FUD. 

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/07/report-apple-revamped-overseas-ops-to-find-new-tax-havens.html

    "The company said that it told regulators in the U.S. and European Commission of the reorganization of its Irish subsidiaries in 2015 and said the moves did not reduce its tax payments in any country."
  • Reply 27 of 82
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,305member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    fred1 said:
    So much EU bashing, and why?  Do you live in the EU? (Have you ever even been to an EU country?). Did you say that the US shouldn’t exist when Congress was supposedly investigating where Aplle stashes its profits?

    These EU officials are doing their job: enforcing the tax laws. Why does this seem so strange to you?
    Yes. You are right. I commented in another thread on exactly what the commissioner has said now someone tried to claim I was using 'weasel' words. LOL.

    All of this is being investigated as we speak. The amount of documents in this leak is vast, so vast that the work will take time to be carried out. We have already seen some prickly documents.

    While all the information is verified and cross referenced, the commissioners and ministers of member states will formerly require the individuals and companies to 'fill in any gaps' on previous declarations in the cases of open investigations. 

    We will see, much further down the line, just how legal the actions of those involved is, but in the case of Apple they have taken a battering in public opinion through the revelations in the press. That is precisely why Apple made a statement in the first place.

    Some people seem to be having trouble accepting this, others just hate the EU.

    I would be worried if the EU didn't do anything. You can be sure the US is also perusing the documents too.

    Trying to make out this hasn't been a PR nightmare is frankly difficult to understand.

    It's not a surprise, its not a PR nightmare, it's completely legal, the U.S. isn't going to do anything about this, but thanks to you, as usual, for pumping up the FUD. 

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/07/report-apple-revamped-overseas-ops-to-find-new-tax-havens.html

    "The company said that it told regulators in the U.S. and European Commission of the reorganization of its Irish subsidiaries in 2015 and said the moves did not reduce its tax payments in any country."
    I'm sure it didn't reduce Apple's tax payments. It would be really difficult to get them even lower. The move was obviously meant as a way to maintain and continue the same tax avoidance structure that the Irish began closing the door on in 2015 following the EU expose'. I would have been more surprised if the EU Commission did NOT want more details on it since the intent was to stop the practice going forward. 
    edited November 2017 cropr
  • Reply 28 of 82
    avon b7 said:
    fred1 said:
    So much EU bashing, and why?  Do you live in the EU? (Have you ever even been to an EU country?). Did you say that the US shouldn’t exist when Congress was supposedly investigating where Aplle stashes its profits?

    These EU officials are doing their job: enforcing the tax laws. Why does this seem so strange to you?
    Yes. You are right. I commented in another thread on exactly what the commissioner has said now someone tried to claim I was using 'weasel' words. LOL.

    All of this is being investigated as we speak. The amount of documents in this leak is vast, so vast that the work will take time to be carried out. We have already seen some prickly documents.

    While all the information is verified and cross referenced, the commissioners and ministers of member states will formerly require the individuals and companies to 'fill in any gaps' on previous declarations in the cases of open investigations. 

    We will see, much further down the line, just how legal the actions of those involved is, but in the case of Apple they have taken a battering in public opinion through the revelations in the press. That is precisely why Apple made a statement in the first place.

    Some people seem to be having trouble accepting this, others just hate the EU.

    I would be worried if the EU didn't do anything. You can be sure the US is also perusing the documents too.

    Trying to make out this hasn't been a PR nightmare is frankly difficult to understand.

    Actually I can guess why people in this forum think that this is NOT a PR nightmare, but you think otherwise. I got time to read only Apple's statement on this issue and I must add - it looked fairly reasonable to me (with my limited knowledge on this topic of taxation of international companies like Apple). I have NOT gone through even a SINGLE article yet on Paradise papers, what information was leaked into public domain etc. Since I have not gone through the actual story but has read only Apple's version, I have not commented on this thread yet. I can easily imagine others in this forum NOT having gone through even a single article on Paradise papers but only Apple's statement. And still comment on the topic based on their prior wealth of knowledge on taxation (which I don't have). It could be possible that only you and very few others have gone through the story from both sides while commenting.
  • Reply 29 of 82
    mike1 said:
    abriden said:
    Amazing, not a single comment that actually condemns Apple for its morally reprehensible approach to taxation. The legalities may be contentious, but damn it, the ethics that Apple and other global companies, super-rich individuals and organised crime (what great bedfellows) use are beneath contempt.

    Bshank ...suggesting that Apple should cut and run is missing the point. Firstly, Apple are not paying enough tax so they do not have the moral high-ground here, even over the rightly despised EU; Secondly, you clearly have no idea of what the EU market is worth to Apple. 

    For those who defend the likes of Apple, think how many more teachers, hospital beds, police and firemen, carers, etc your country could afford if these organisations paid their way properly and honestly.
    So, you're a socialist arguing for yet more government employees paid for by taxpayers.
    I'm not a socialist. I wasn't thinking public employees as such, rather I was thinking better public services. Use your imagination, there's no end to the potential good that could be done if everyone paid tax on the basis of moral obligation, rather than secrecy and the size of their respective legal budgets.
    frankie
  • Reply 30 of 82
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,305member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    fred1 said:
    So much EU bashing, and why?  Do you live in the EU? (Have you ever even been to an EU country?). Did you say that the US shouldn’t exist when Congress was supposedly investigating where Aplle stashes its profits?

    These EU officials are doing their job: enforcing the tax laws. Why does this seem so strange to you?
    Yes. You are right. I commented in another thread on exactly what the commissioner has said now someone tried to claim I was using 'weasel' words. LOL.

    All of this is being investigated as we speak. The amount of documents in this leak is vast, so vast that the work will take time to be carried out. We have already seen some prickly documents.

    While all the information is verified and cross referenced, the commissioners and ministers of member states will formerly require the individuals and companies to 'fill in any gaps' on previous declarations in the cases of open investigations. 

    We will see, much further down the line, just how legal the actions of those involved is, but in the case of Apple they have taken a battering in public opinion through the revelations in the press. That is precisely why Apple made a statement in the first place.

    Some people seem to be having trouble accepting this, others just hate the EU.

    I would be worried if the EU didn't do anything. You can be sure the US is also perusing the documents too.

    Trying to make out this hasn't been a PR nightmare is frankly difficult to understand.

    It's not a surprise, its not a PR nightmare, it's completely legal, the U.S. isn't going to do anything about this, but thanks to you, as usual, for pumping up the FUD. 

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/07/report-apple-revamped-overseas-ops-to-find-new-tax-havens.html

    "The company said that it told regulators in the U.S. and European Commission of the reorganization of its Irish subsidiaries in 2015 and said the moves did not reduce its tax payments in any country."
    It's not a PR nightmare?

    https://projekte.sueddeutsche.de/paradisepapers/politik/dear-tim-cook-e322998/?autologin=true


  • Reply 31 of 82
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 21,305member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    fred1 said:
    So much EU bashing, and why?  Do you live in the EU? (Have you ever even been to an EU country?). Did you say that the US shouldn’t exist when Congress was supposedly investigating where Aplle stashes its profits?

    These EU officials are doing their job: enforcing the tax laws. Why does this seem so strange to you?
    Yes. You are right. I commented in another thread on exactly what the commissioner has said now someone tried to claim I was using 'weasel' words. LOL.

    All of this is being investigated as we speak. The amount of documents in this leak is vast, so vast that the work will take time to be carried out. We have already seen some prickly documents.

    While all the information is verified and cross referenced, the commissioners and ministers of member states will formerly require the individuals and companies to 'fill in any gaps' on previous declarations in the cases of open investigations. 

    We will see, much further down the line, just how legal the actions of those involved is, but in the case of Apple they have taken a battering in public opinion through the revelations in the press. That is precisely why Apple made a statement in the first place.

    Some people seem to be having trouble accepting this, others just hate the EU.

    I would be worried if the EU didn't do anything. You can be sure the US is also perusing the documents too.

    Trying to make out this hasn't been a PR nightmare is frankly difficult to understand.

    It's not a surprise, its not a PR nightmare, it's completely legal, the U.S. isn't going to do anything about this, but thanks to you, as usual, for pumping up the FUD. 

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/07/report-apple-revamped-overseas-ops-to-find-new-tax-havens.html

    "The company said that it told regulators in the U.S. and European Commission of the reorganization of its Irish subsidiaries in 2015 and said the moves did not reduce its tax payments in any country."
    It's not a PR nightmare?

    https://projekte.sueddeutsche.de/paradisepapers/politik/dear-tim-cook-e322998/?autologin=true


    Good short read too. Thanks!
  • Reply 32 of 82
    BluntBlunt Posts: 224member
    Apple, Google and other compagnies need to step up. In the Netherlands for example Google made a construction which allowed them to pay millions of dollars less with no benifit for our country at all. Apple is using similar methods which is a shame.
    edited November 2017
  • Reply 33 of 82
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 4,305member
    avon b7 said:
    fred1 said:
    So much EU bashing, and why?  Do you live in the EU? (Have you ever even been to an EU country?). Did you say that the US shouldn’t exist when Congress was supposedly investigating where Aplle stashes its profits?

    These EU officials are doing their job: enforcing the tax laws. Why does this seem so strange to you?
    Yes. You are right. I commented in another thread on exactly what the commissioner has said now someone tried to claim I was using 'weasel' words. LOL.

    All of this is being investigated as we speak. The amount of documents in this leak is vast, so vast that the work will take time to be carried out. We have already seen some prickly documents.

    While all the information is verified and cross referenced, the commissioners and ministers of member states will formerly require the individuals and companies to 'fill in any gaps' on previous declarations in the cases of open investigations. 

    We will see, much further down the line, just how legal the actions of those involved is, but in the case of Apple they have taken a battering in public opinion through the revelations in the press. That is precisely why Apple made a statement in the first place.

    Some people seem to be having trouble accepting this, others just hate the EU.

    I would be worried if the EU didn't do anything. You can be sure the US is also perusing the documents too.

    Trying to make out this hasn't been a PR nightmare is frankly difficult to understand.

    Actually I can guess why people in this forum think that this is NOT a PR nightmare, but you think otherwise. I got time to read only Apple's statement on this issue and I must add - it looked fairly reasonable to me (with my limited knowledge on this topic of taxation of international companies like Apple). I have NOT gone through even a SINGLE article yet on Paradise papers, what information was leaked into public domain etc. Since I have not gone through the actual story but has read only Apple's version, I have not commented on this thread yet. I can easily imagine others in this forum NOT having gone through even a single article on Paradise papers but only Apple's statement. And still comment on the topic based on their prior wealth of knowledge on taxation (which I don't have). It could be possible that only you and very few others have gone through the story from both sides while commenting.
    That is definitely feasible. However, the reality is there for all to see.

    If Apple has made a formal statement mere hours after this went public it should be clear that this is a major issue.

    The Paradise Papers have been handed over to over 100 respected news outlets for study and documentary style reports have already been aired. 

    It doesn't even matter if Apple is innocent of course. The fact that documents like the questionnaire, however normal they may be among multinationals, have reached the public domain is of paramount concern to Apple PR. The risk of some damaging mails being found among the data is also there.

    I have yet to see a news piece of this subject that doesn't mention Apple and I am sure that that is a situation Apple is very worried about in its PR department which must be a hive of activity right now.

    You only have to dip into the comments sections of press outlets to gauge opinion.


  • Reply 34 of 82
    BluntBlunt Posts: 224member
    abriden said:
    Amazing, not a single comment that actually condemns Apple for its morally reprehensible approach to taxation. The legalities may be contentious, but damn it, the ethics that Apple and other global companies, super-rich individuals and organised crime (what great bedfellows) use are beneath contempt.

    Bshank ...suggesting that Apple should cut and run is missing the point. Firstly, Apple are not paying enough tax so they do not have the moral high-ground here, even over the rightly despised EU; Secondly, you clearly have no idea of what the EU market is worth to Apple. 

    For those who defend the likes of Apple, think how many more teachers, hospital beds, police and firemen, carers, etc your country could afford if these organisations paid their way properly and honestly.

    I love Apple but this is a bloody shame. You are completely right about this.
    frankie
  • Reply 35 of 82
    jbdragonjbdragon Posts: 2,192member
    tshapi said:
    foggyhill said:
    Even if it were true, which Apple is disputing, It's legal, so WTF is it to them.
    Close up your fracked up laws and live with the consequences of that, or shut the hell up about your mock consternation. I'm not fooled by this though this grandstanding my impress the peanut gallery.
    This kind of double talk were those guys (in the EU and abroad) are all amazed that tax paradise exist when most of them have all their money there is sounds pretty hollow.
    This is akin to the Claude Rains character being disturbed gambling is going on in that place while collecting his winnings in the film Casablanca.

    It’s not “legal” it’s a back door deal. Why would anyone want to build there company in any other country If Ireland is providing a tax shelter? So the eu get compelled to kill it. 
    Who created those back doors? The Politicians did!!! They are legal until such time as the law is changed to close them.
    tallest skil
  • Reply 36 of 82
    abriden said:
    Amazing, not a single comment that actually condemns Apple for its morally reprehensible approach to taxation.
    Let me offer you my definition of “social justice”: I keep what I earn and you keep what you earn. Do you disagree? Well, then tell me how much of what I earn belongs to you and why. I’ll wait.
    The legalities may be contentious
    So fix the law. That’s all that matters here.
    Apple are not paying enough tax
    You have absolutely no right or ability to say that.
    so they do not have the moral high-ground here
    “Paying more tax” ≠ moral.
    think how many more teachers, hospital beds, police and firemen, carers, etc your country could afford if these organisations paid their way properly and honestly.
    You have no idea where taxes go or why. You have no idea how the global economy works and what is responsible for the complete destruction of the value of a dollar. This is why you are a communist.
    xbit said:
    Yes, we do. The last European elections were held in 2014.
    Yes, apologies; I didn’t want to drag things too far off the topic. You don’t vote for your representation or your laws. The European Commission is unelected and unmonitored, making all the laws. The Parliament simply votes on the laws (if you can call blind acceptance ‘voting’). You do vote for the Parliament.
    abriden said:
    unspecified fees that are completely unsubstantiated.
    This is what modern taxes are. How about you stop whining about wealth redistribution (marxism) and campaign for taxation equality and economic reorganization instead? You know, something that would actually fix the problems you have.
    Look at China. They didn't tax cut their way to growth.
    Correct; genocide isn’t taxation.
     They committed gigantic amounts of money to infrastructure spending for multiple decades.
    And when that motherfucker of a bubble comes crashing down (just like the ghost cities and their buildings made of sand, garbage, and styrofoam made during this bubble), every surviving nation will pass a law that prevents such a thing from ever being implemented again under penalty of death. If your goal is a short period of unsustainable success, laud China!
    Infrastructure spending delivers far more bang for the buck than tax cuts.
    Is this statement based on your understanding of, say, the New Deal, or of some other event somewhere else that actually gives evidence to that point?
    abriden said:
    I’m not a socialist. …there’s no end to the potential good that could be done if everyone paid tax on the basis of moral obligation…
    Ah, enforcing, at gunpoint, your own brand of morality–based on moral relativism–for the purpose of funding a government. Socialism, in other words. Heteronomous culture.
    Blunt said:
    Apple, Google and other compagnies need to step up. In the Netherlands for example Google made a construction which allowed them to pay millions of dollars less with no benifit for our country at all. Apple is using similar methods which is a shame.
    Yeah, it sure is Apple’s fault that THE NETHERLANDS has a law which allows someone to do something.
    edited November 2017 bshank
  • Reply 37 of 82
    I think it's fair for a company (and an individual) to try to pay less taxes, but only to a certain point. When the ways of paying less involve such complicated and borderline methods, paying less taxes is not fair anymore, but purely greedy and unfair. 

    What's more embarrassing for Apple is that the "certain point" when fair becomes outrageous is particularly low because Apple has almost always, and even more recently, placed itself on the moral ground : Apple tries to be the good guy in a lot of different fields and Tim Cook never misses an occasion to tell us how good, fair and examplary his company is : race, gender, environment, immigration, sexual harassment... on all these subjects, Apple loves to present itself as the model. And suddenly in the taxes field, Apple could be the greedy guy who would do anything to pay less ? 

    I think that one day all these companies, and Apple first precisely because of its role model, will have to accept to play fair tax-wise, because the public will soon consider tax evasion as morally unacceptable as sending wastes in the oceans because some tiny island in the Pacific said it was legal, according to their law. 
    avon b7
  • Reply 38 of 82
    To those who have so far defended Apple's tax avoidance and blame the laws rather than those abusing them, it is by no means certain that Apple have operated legally at all — by all accounts the arrangement with the Irish government was illegal and the subject of an EU investigation. Secrecy is the reason these tax avoidance schemes have thus far been allowed to happen unchallenged, but hopefully the so-called Paradise Papers will prompt reforms (though I won't hold my breath).

    There is a reason why private and public companies have to publish their accounts for transparency — hiding the money in countries with greater secrecy does not make it legal.
    frankieavon b7
  • Reply 39 of 82
    abriden said:
    Amazing, not a single comment that actually condemns Apple for its morally reprehensible approach to taxation.
    Let me offer you my definition of “social justice”: I keep what I earn and you keep what you earn. Do you disagree? Well, then tell me how much of what I earn belongs to you and why. I’ll wait.
    The legalities may be contentious
    So fix the law. That’s all that matters here.
    Apple are not paying enough tax
    You have absolutely no right or ability to say that.
    so they do not have the moral high-ground here
    “Paying more tax” ≠ moral. Holy fucking shit.
    think how many more teachers, hospital beds, police and firemen, carers, etc your country could afford if these organisations paid their way properly and honestly.
    You have no idea where taxes go or why. You have no idea how the global economy works and what is responsible for the complete destruction of the value of a dollar. This is why you are a communist.
    xbit said:
    Yes, we do. The last European elections were held in 2014.
    Yes, apologies; I didn’t want to drag things too far off the topic. You don’t vote for your representation or your laws. The European Commission is unelected and unmonitored, making all the laws. The Parliament simply votes on the laws (if you can call blind acceptance ‘voting’). You do vote for the Parliament.
    abriden said:
    unspecified fees that are completely unsubstantiated.
    This is what modern taxes are. How about you stop whining about wealth redistribution (marxism) and campaign for taxation equality and economic reorganization instead? You know, something that would actually fix the problems you have.
    Look at China. They didn't tax cut their way to growth.
    Correct; genocide isn’t taxation.
     They committed gigantic amounts of money to infrastructure spending for multiple decades.
    And when that motherfucker of a bubble comes crashing down (just like the ghost cities and their buildings made of sand, garbage, and styrofoam made during this bubble), every surviving nation will pass a law that prevents such a thing from ever being implemented again under penalty of death. If your goal is a short period of unsustainable success, laud China!
    Infrastructure spending delivers far more bang for the buck than tax cuts.
    Is this statement based on your understanding of, say, the New Deal, or of some other event somewhere else that actually gives evidence to that point?
    abriden said:
    I’m not a socialist. …there’s no end to the potential good that could be done if everyone paid tax on the basis of moral obligation…
    Ah, enforcing, at gunpoint, your own brand of morality–based on moral relativism–for the purpose of funding a government. Socialism, in other words. Heteronomous culture.
    Blunt said:
    Apple, Google and other compagnies need to step up. In the Netherlands for example Google made a construction which allowed them to pay millions of dollars less with no benifit for our country at all. Apple is using similar methods which is a shame.
    Yeah, it sure is Apple’s fault that THE NETHERLANDS has a law which allows someone to do something. Fuck’s sake…
    FFS this isn't an issue about socialism. It's about justice, and the principle that we all play by the same rules. These so-called tax avoidance schemes are NOT necessarily legal as the secrecy and mechanisms used to hide profits and present non-existent fees have not been open to scrutiny. Apple believed their Irish arrangement to be legal, presumably on advice, however, the EU have demonstrated that it was preferential and therefore illegal, thus they are pursuing both Apple and the Irish government for unpaid taxes. Dress this up however you like, it's still immoral.
    frankiesingularity
  • Reply 40 of 82
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,984member
    gatorguy said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    fred1 said:
    So much EU bashing, and why?  Do you live in the EU? (Have you ever even been to an EU country?). Did you say that the US shouldn’t exist when Congress was supposedly investigating where Aplle stashes its profits?

    These EU officials are doing their job: enforcing the tax laws. Why does this seem so strange to you?
    Yes. You are right. I commented in another thread on exactly what the commissioner has said now someone tried to claim I was using 'weasel' words. LOL.

    All of this is being investigated as we speak. The amount of documents in this leak is vast, so vast that the work will take time to be carried out. We have already seen some prickly documents.

    While all the information is verified and cross referenced, the commissioners and ministers of member states will formerly require the individuals and companies to 'fill in any gaps' on previous declarations in the cases of open investigations. 

    We will see, much further down the line, just how legal the actions of those involved is, but in the case of Apple they have taken a battering in public opinion through the revelations in the press. That is precisely why Apple made a statement in the first place.

    Some people seem to be having trouble accepting this, others just hate the EU.

    I would be worried if the EU didn't do anything. You can be sure the US is also perusing the documents too.

    Trying to make out this hasn't been a PR nightmare is frankly difficult to understand.

    It's not a surprise, its not a PR nightmare, it's completely legal, the U.S. isn't going to do anything about this, but thanks to you, as usual, for pumping up the FUD. 

    https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/07/report-apple-revamped-overseas-ops-to-find-new-tax-havens.html

    "The company said that it told regulators in the U.S. and European Commission of the reorganization of its Irish subsidiaries in 2015 and said the moves did not reduce its tax payments in any country."
    I'm sure it didn't reduce Apple's tax payments. It would be really difficult to get them even lower. The move was obviously meant as a way to maintain and continue the same tax avoidance structure that the Irish began closing the door on in 2015 following the EU expose'. I would have been more surprised if the EU Commission did NOT want more details on it since the intent was to stop the practice going forward. 
    Yet, that's Apple's statement, that they provided the details to the EU. Pretty easy to verify that I would think.
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