Most people 'interact' they don't compute... so they need an interaction device. something to communicate/interpret/assist/enhance stuff around me or far away.
People who 'compute' are the 1 percent... the truck drivers in the other Jobsian metaphor. We need them, and they need 'trucks,' but their vehicles shouldn't define my experience.
and all those who want a 'mac tablet'... you're asking for a Kenworth engine and transmission in a tesla. get over it.
macplusplus said: So what? The software/UI is specifically tailored for Touch interaction. You cannot attach a mouse to an iPad as you cannot attach a touchscreen to a Mac. This is not a matter of efficiency, this is a matter of oranges to apples.
I am typing this comment on my iPhone, you could type it faster on your Mac keyboard. But I am typing this while walking, which of us is more efficient right now?
Yes, but as a really simple example, let's run some tests to see who can more quickly select and edit text... a person on iOS, or on a Mac. That's not something crazy either, as nearly everyone does it. But, you're right in that sometimes we'll trade off inefficiency (in one manner) for mobility. Or, sometimes iOS is more efficient overall, like a doctor checking off items or something similar on a tablet while examining a patient.
For certain tasks, though I just don't see how iOS is going to be better. When I worked in a previous IT job, I used to have like 20 terminal windows, text editor, several remote-screen control sessions, and other various apps going and could quickly interact with any of them as necessary. Or, what about an architect or someone creating a 3D animation? A mobile touch interface just isn't that great for stuff like that (and I don't see how it ever will be).
Theres a a time and place for iPads but I’d move on to another platform if Apple no longer developed OS X
Exactly... if their grand scheme (and it seems like it just might be) is to move everyone to iOS and iDevices, I think a lot of us will be jumping ship.
macplusplus said: So what? The software/UI is specifically tailored for Touch interaction. You cannot attach a mouse to an iPad as you cannot attach a touchscreen to a Mac. This is not a matter of efficiency, this is a matter of oranges to apples.
I am typing this comment on my iPhone, you could type it faster on your Mac keyboard. But I am typing this while walking, which of us is more efficient right now?
Yes, but as a really simple example, let's run some tests to see who can more quickly select and edit text... a person on iOS, or on a Mac. That's not something crazy either, as nearly everyone does it. But, you're right in that sometimes we'll trade off inefficiency (in one manner) for mobility. Or, sometimes iOS is more efficient overall, like a doctor checking off items or something similar on a tablet while examining a patient.
For certain tasks, though I just don't see how iOS is going to be better. When I worked in a previous IT job, I used to have like 20 terminal windows, text editor, several remote-screen control sessions, and other various apps going and could quickly interact with any of them as necessary. Or, what about an architect or someone creating a 3D animation? A mobile touch interface just isn't that great for stuff like that (and I don't see how it ever will be).
Although you refuse to see, It already is: the Pencil.
Theres a a time and place for iPads but I’d move on to another platform if Apple no longer developed OS X
Exactly... if their grand scheme (and it seems like it just might be) is to move everyone to iOS and iDevices, I think a lot of us will be jumping ship
Which kid/youngster... hey even grandparent... who ever had a device like an iPhone / iPad as their first device and never ‘had’ to use a ‘computer’ (desktop / laptop) would actually want one of them?
They would more likely ask ‘why do you have to use the mouse etc’? And once they see what we get done with ‘computers’ they will find a way to get it done ‘without them’.
The same way ‘we’ grew up with ‘computers’ and asked... ‘why do I need a typewriter, why do I need a calculator, ...’.
These are just different methods of different generations along the path of evolution.
Granted that to get some things done a traditional computing device (with mouse etc) will yield better and faster results than what can be covered by an iPad approach. However, that is only a matter of time where the iPad style is the dominant one (actually it already is... look at how we all use iPhones, iPads etc... with our fingers and with a convergence of capabilities of previously separate devices... e.g. cameras).
The notion of a ‘computer’ is simply a relic of our own past. A past when there where no such machines and we had to give it a name. Now, the capabilities of these machines are omnipresent and our notion of ‘computer’ falls back on a couple of interface obstacles (mouse? Big-screens?...).
The traditional computer will go the way of many other things... it will be remembered... but what we use will be different. We will have kept the most useful features and converted them for better use and in many cases we simply moved on to find ways to do things differently.
Remember: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C. Clarke
Some of us are struggling with this. It is a pivotal time for ‘computing’ and ‘human computer interaction’. ... Move on... Embrace
Wow, AutoCAD Pro finally catches up to what I was doing (sans pencil) back in the late '90s? Amazing. LOL I've had that kind of functionality and more for a long, long time, and it doesn't really matter if you're using a mouse, graphics tablet, or pencil... to each their own, I guess. But, most people who do this stuff aren't going to be using pencils on 12" screens.
Well, I'm glad Apple didn't take the hybrid Surface approach. But, if their ultimate goal is to move everyone to iOS, that's also a fail approach. Different UIs with different use-cases and purposes, especially for pros. The low-end consumer market will muddle through with whatever you give them if it's simple to maintain.
Well... one answer is a device where you can have more than one document/file open in an app at the same time.
Another answer is a device where you can create the apps that people use on iPads and iPhones.
Actually, there are a lot of answers like those.
Having said that, though, I love my iPad Pro and I appreciate Apple’s approach with the iPad of starting simple and then only adding complexity as needed. More complexity needs to be added, but I like the approach. Eventually Apple will (hopefully) arrive at a device (or family of devices) that meets the needs of 99% of users with noticeably less unnecessary complexity than a Mac or PC.
Old PCs of both the DOS and Mac persuasion couldn’t open more than one file at a time. They were still computers. Pretty sure it’s the computing that makes a tool a computer, not file management.
Steve whiffed on this analogy - in 2017 the top 3 selling vehicles are pick-up trucks.
Nope, you’re whiffing. He said in the beginning they were all trucks. Now they aren’t. And most people don’t need trucks.
Even Mac user has iPhones and/or iPads. That means that by Jobs' analogy all of us Mac users have trucks and cars, which just increases the car market no matter how much "we" want better trucks.
StrangeDays said: Nope, you’re whiffing. He said in the beginning they were all trucks. Now they aren’t. And most people don’t need trucks.
Or, more accurately... most people who need them, get by with renting them from time to time, or depending on others to do their dirty work.
Soli said: Even Mac user have iPhones and/or iPads. That means that by Jobs' analogy all us Mac users have trucks and cars, which just increases the car market no matter how much "we" want better trucks.
And... in sticking with the analogy, as I mentioned above... very few people actually get by without trucks, they might just not personally own/need one. But, they are dependent on them, and that isn't going to change any time soon. I think that applies to computers as well. The question is whether Apple is going to stay in that game, or whether the content creators, scientists, artists, etc. need to find another company. And, whether Apple is going to ditch their 'think different' history and affiliations, etc. Will they instead become the 'crowd think' company making candy for the masses.
StrangeDays said: Nope, you’re whiffing. He said in the beginning they were all trucks. Now they aren’t. And most people don’t need trucks.
Or, more accurately... most people who need them, get by with renting them from time to time, or depending on others to do their dirty work.
Soli said: Even Mac user have iPhones and/or iPads. That means that by Jobs' analogy all us Mac users have trucks and cars, which just increases the car market no matter how much "we" want better trucks.
And... in sticking with the analogy, as I mentioned above... very few people actually get by without trucks, they might just not personally own/need one. But, they are dependent on them, and that isn't going to change any time soon. I think that applies to computers as well. The question is whether Apple is going to stay in that game, or whether the content creators, scientists, artists, etc. need to find another company. And, whether Apple is going to ditch their 'think different' history and affiliations, etc. Will they instead become the 'crowd think' company making candy for the masses.
If you believe non-desktops are “candy” (or the more common phrase “just toys!”) then you haven’t been paying attention, to real life or the analogy. Cars are less capable than trucks but still not toys. Whether Apple stays in the desktop computing business is a separate conversation, but there is nothing shameful about mobile devices as a product or a business.
StrangeDays said: If you believe non-desktops are “candy” (or the more common phrase “just toys!”) then you haven’t been paying attention, to real life or the analogy. Cars are less capable than trucks but still not toys. Whether Apple stays in the desktop computing business is a separate conversation, but there is nothing shameful about mobile devices as a product or a business.
No, I don't think iOS devices are 'candy' or 'toys' at all. But, many of Apple's 'advances' aside from the hardware, recently, have been.
Oh look... here's an example in the headlines today, "'Hey Siri' may come to iMac Pro with rumored inclusion of A10 Fusion co-processor" Again, nothing against this... but it uses resources they desperately need to be putting into useful stuff.
A computer can compile, run and submit apps... (?)
The iPad Pro is great. I loved this short film. I found it touching. I think everyone wants a creative smart and independent kid like that. But the film also leaves a bitter aftertaste with me. I can't help but thinking "rich people's kids".. It'd be great if Apple could really help people who can never dream of affording an iPad Pro for themselves or their kids. I'd love to see that commercial..
Like that girl says what’s a computer? I guess the point is the world is moving away from the traditional desktop systems. And being more mobile and it’s showing that the iPad can do just as well as some laptops for things.
palegolas said: ... But the film also leaves a bitter aftertaste with me. I can't help but thinking "rich people's kids"..
It'd be great if Apple could really help people who can never dream of affording an iPad Pro for themselves or their kids. I'd love to see that commercial..
Given the price-range of the rest of Apple's product line, I suppose it makes sense, especially if you could do a bunch of that with the base iPad. That's a lot cheaper than any of their Macs. But, yes, it also isn't a Chromebook, or even a nourishing meal. That's not really Apple's market though.
Like that girl says what’s a computer? I guess the point is the world is moving away from the traditional desktop systems. And being more mobile and it’s showing that the iPad can do just as well as some laptops for things.
More like it can do just as well for some things. My young son pretty much lives on an iPad and has spent just minutes here and there on a Mac. But, since he's getting into video editing and other more advanced stuff, even he quickly realizes the iPad isn't going to cut it.
My wife probably uses the iPad the most in the family, and she does a lot of stuff on it that I tend to reach for the laptop/desktop. But, when it comes time to do more serious stuff, she also heads for the laptop/desktop. As nice as iOS and mobile devices are, if you have a *choice* for more advanced workflows, I think most will still pick the Mac. More screen space and better (for most things) input control are huge, regardless of how fast, feature-rich, etc. iOS ever becomes. Some of that could be addressed (i.e.: external keyboard/trackpad) but much of it just is what it is.
I get the feeling that eventually the iPad or tablet will take over and wipeout the traditional computer.
Just like the computer has wiped out paper... or do you see how writing on paper and printing material on paper still has a place in the world despite the success of digital media?
Comments
Theres a a time and place for iPads but I’d move on to another platform if Apple no longer developed OS X
Lil Shithead: “what’s a computer?”
Me:
For certain tasks, though I just don't see how iOS is going to be better. When I worked in a previous IT job, I used to have like 20 terminal windows, text editor, several remote-screen control sessions, and other various apps going and could quickly interact with any of them as necessary. Or, what about an architect or someone creating a 3D animation? A mobile touch interface just isn't that great for stuff like that (and I don't see how it ever will be).
Exactly... if their grand scheme (and it seems like it just might be) is to move everyone to iOS and iDevices, I think a lot of us will be jumping ship.
https://youtu.be/0fUr9sxx0xs
This is just why Apple won’t make a Surface.
Which kid/youngster... hey even grandparent... who ever had a device like an iPhone / iPad as their first device and never ‘had’ to use a ‘computer’ (desktop / laptop) would actually want one of them?
They would more likely ask ‘why do you have to use the mouse etc’? And once they see what we get done with ‘computers’ they will find a way to get it done ‘without them’.
The same way ‘we’ grew up with ‘computers’ and asked... ‘why do I need a typewriter, why do I need a calculator, ...’.
These are just different methods of different generations along the path of evolution.
Granted that to get some things done a traditional computing device (with mouse etc) will yield better and faster results than what can be covered by an iPad approach. However, that is only a matter of time where the iPad style is the dominant one (actually it already is... look at how we all use iPhones, iPads etc... with our fingers and with a convergence of capabilities of previously separate devices... e.g. cameras).
The notion of a ‘computer’ is simply a relic of our own past. A past when there where no such machines and we had to give it a name. Now, the capabilities of these machines are omnipresent and our notion of ‘computer’ falls back on a couple of interface obstacles (mouse? Big-screens?...).
The traditional computer will go the way of many other things... it will be remembered... but what we use will be different. We will have kept the most useful features and converted them for better use and in many cases we simply moved on to find ways to do things differently.
Remember: “Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. - Arthur C. Clarke
Some of us are struggling with this. It is a pivotal time for ‘computing’ and ‘human computer interaction’. ... Move on... Embrace
I've had that kind of functionality and more for a long, long time, and it doesn't really matter if you're using a mouse, graphics tablet, or pencil... to each their own, I guess. But, most people who do this stuff aren't going to be using pencils on 12" screens.
Well, I'm glad Apple didn't take the hybrid Surface approach. But, if their ultimate goal is to move everyone to iOS, that's also a fail approach. Different UIs with different use-cases and purposes, especially for pros. The low-end consumer market will muddle through with whatever you give them if it's simple to maintain.
Nope, you’re whiffing. He said in the beginning they were all trucks. Now they aren’t. And most people don’t need trucks.
And... in sticking with the analogy, as I mentioned above... very few people actually get by without trucks, they might just not personally own/need one. But, they are dependent on them, and that isn't going to change any time soon. I think that applies to computers as well. The question is whether Apple is going to stay in that game, or whether the content creators, scientists, artists, etc. need to find another company. And, whether Apple is going to ditch their 'think different' history and affiliations, etc. Will they instead become the 'crowd think' company making candy for the masses.
Oh look... here's an example in the headlines today, "'Hey Siri' may come to iMac Pro with rumored inclusion of A10 Fusion co-processor"
The iPad Pro is great. I loved this short film. I found it touching. I think everyone wants a creative smart and independent kid like that.
But the film also leaves a bitter aftertaste with me. I can't help but thinking "rich people's kids"..
It'd be great if Apple could really help people who can never dream of affording an iPad Pro for themselves or their kids. I'd love to see that commercial..
More like it can do just as well for some things. My young son pretty much lives on an iPad and has spent just minutes here and there on a Mac. But, since he's getting into video editing and other more advanced stuff, even he quickly realizes the iPad isn't going to cut it.
My wife probably uses the iPad the most in the family, and she does a lot of stuff on it that I tend to reach for the laptop/desktop. But, when it comes time to do more serious stuff, she also heads for the laptop/desktop. As nice as iOS and mobile devices are, if you have a *choice* for more advanced workflows, I think most will still pick the Mac. More screen space and better (for most things) input control are huge, regardless of how fast, feature-rich, etc. iOS ever becomes. Some of that could be addressed (i.e.: external keyboard/trackpad) but much of it just is what it is.