Apple software sees disastrous, embarrassing week with iOS springboard crash, macOS root u...

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  • Reply 41 of 119
    nhughesnhughes Posts: 736editor
    nhughes said:

    I've been the managing editor of AppleInsider for 8 and a half years...
    Can you explain the decline in the number of posts? Articles used to get hundreds of replies, but nowadays it seems only every now and then an article receives over 30 posts. Most articles are getting single digit posts, making this site feel like a ghost town. There used to be really great discussions on all things tech, which I always loved to read and participate in.
    I don’t know the answer for sure, but I can offer you a few educated guesses:

    - We publish more news, which pushes older stories down the page, which leads to fewer comments. Weekend content tends to receive more comments because there isn’t as much news being published.
    - We, along with every other website on the internet, have a troll problem, which stifles discussion and discourages new people from commenting.
    gatorguywelshdogmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 42 of 119
    Some of these "bugs" should never have a chance of existing. The "root" bug should never exist in a UNIX system like Mac OS.

    I suspect someone within Apple is sabotaging Apple. 

    Tim, Phil, and the other heads of Apple need to root out this infiltrator. 


  • Reply 43 of 119
    nhughes said:
    osmartormenajr said:
    The macOS flaw was serious, but patched within a day almost. 
    Supposedly the flaw was publicized on Apple’s developer forums months ago, over the summer. It just didn’t get wide publicity until Tuesday. But it was not patched within a day.
    Oops, it seems I've hurt some feelings. You do realize that you started your sentence with "Supposedly", and that I finished mine with "almost". My reckoning of a day interval may be different to yours, due to time zone differences and when I've read the news on AI.

    Most important, if you hadn't already convinced yourself that your piece was a bit of a hyperbole, you wouldn't be here, replying the fortieth something forum post, hours after you originally posted your piece, on a weekend...

    I think I'll start the #iDED on Twitter! (no, I'm not...)

    Chill out dude, I just don't agree with your overview, but your facts are sound.
    edited December 2017 randominternetperson
  • Reply 44 of 119
    nhughesnhughes Posts: 736editor
    nhughes said:
    osmartormenajr said:
    The macOS flaw was serious, but patched within a day almost. 
    Supposedly the flaw was publicized on Apple’s developer forums months ago, over the summer. It just didn’t get wide publicity until Tuesday. But it was not patched within a day.
    Oops, it seems I've hurt some feelings. You do realize that you started your sentence with "Supposedly", and that I finished mine with "almost". Most important, if you hadn't already convinced yourself that your piece was a bit of a hyperbole, you wouldn't be here, replying the fortieth something forum post, hours after you originally posted your piece, on a weekend...
    I can assure you that you didn’t hurt my feelings. Just trying to offer accurate information. 

    I respond to comments extensively on all of my editorials and reviews. Feel free to check my post history. It’s good to engage with readers. 
    edited December 2017
  • Reply 45 of 119
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,218member
    Expecting perfection from any company is idiotic.  Software is complex and that complexity is only increasing exponentially.  

    What's far more critical is how companies respond when the inevitable bugs do surface and on that front Apple's response was stellar and far better than it has been in the past.  

    They should be lauded for their response time but positive articles don't generate as many clicks as negative ones so here we are.  
    LukeCageRayz2016
  • Reply 46 of 119
    nhughesnhughes Posts: 736editor
    nhughes said:
    osmartormenajr said:
    The macOS flaw was serious, but patched within a day almost. 
    Supposedly the flaw was publicized on Apple’s developer forums months ago, over the summer. It just didn’t get wide publicity until Tuesday. But it was not patched within a day.
    you wouldn't be here, replying the fortieth something forum post, hours after you originally posted your piece, on a weekend...

    Chill out dude
    Oh, also: I get paid to be here. This is literally my job.
    asdasdgatorguybeowulfschmidtmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 47 of 119
    docno42docno42 Posts: 3,218member
    dewme said:
    There's no way to sugarcoat what has happened over the past week at Apple. Apple's software team has to bite down and swallow hard on this week's series of events. 

    Yawn.  That's a nice sentiment but far from reality.  Microsoft did an excellent job of digging themselves out of their morass in the early 2000's with the Trustworthy computing initiative but even that didn't survive in the long term.  And at their worse Apple was never as bad off as MS was in those days. 

    Rather than "trying harder" we need substantial changes to how we approach software programming, and that's going to have to come from automation and AI.  It's beyond obvious that software complexity is well beyond what teams of humans can directly manage.  We are doing the equivalent of trying to manage a database on 3x5 index cards in old school library card catalog drawers.

    Until we come up with radically more efficient ways to manage the complexity around developing, maintaining and auditing software it's going to get a lot worse for everyone.  Our current "computer science" practices are simply not up to the task of dealing with todays integrated and networked computing environments. 
  • Reply 48 of 119
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 4,998member
    kpom said:
    I wouldn’t be surprised if we see a management shakeup after this. Perhaps a new C-suite level position over quality control. 
    I doubt it. But I wouldn’t be surprised if some engineers no longer work at the company.
    The exact wrong people to blame (unless this repeats or was deliberate). 
  • Reply 49 of 119
    I can understand Neil's dyspeptic stance in this review, and also his exasperated replies to commenters who can't seem to grasp what the problem is here. Whatever we geeks would like to think, these bugs are genuine showstoppers for what is now Apple's principal market, i.e. the non-tech-savvy consumer. On the other hand, I remember how long it took Microsoft to get a handle on the fact that the built-in insecurities in Windows XP threatened a predictable computing apocalypse.

    The level of complexity in modern software, operating not only locally, but across the distributed computing environment of the modern Internet, is literally mind-boggling. In the future, AI may help keep the cart from outrunning the horse -- assuming we can effectively monitor what AI is up to with its self-governing heuristics -- but in the meantime, pieces like Neil's will help keep the major players' feet to the fire. The truth is, we're all in too deep to back out now, so getting it right is mission-critical for all of us, regardless of our level of tech-savvy.
    edited December 2017 nhughesrandominternetperson
  • Reply 50 of 119
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 1,655member
    asdasd said:
    Here’s what I suggest. Decouple major software releases from hardware. If the new iPhone needs some new software updates then add them in a point point release. I’m
    convinced that the problems with the .0 release come from releasing to the hardware schedule. 

    Then you have time to fix bugs. 


    This bug is odd though. There’s nothing special about today’s date. It looks like somebody may have planted an issue? 
    That does not make sense. New hardware adds new features like FaceID. It warrants a major software update. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 51 of 119
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    osmartormenajr said:
    The macOS flaw was serious, but patched within a day almost. 
    Supposedly the flaw was publicized on Apple’s developer forums months ago, over the summer. It just didn’t get wide publicity until Tuesday. But it was not patched within a day.
    you wouldn't be here, replying the fortieth something forum post, hours after you originally posted your piece, on a weekend...

    Chill out dude
    Oh, also: I get paid to be here. This is literally my job.
    Is this passive-aggressive? Is it your job to pick little feuds with readers? You nitpicked on my summarization of the facts, which is an easy win for you, since I'm not a journalist (I'm assuming you are... you know, with a college degree). Although, you refrained from commenting on my most acidic perception: that the tone of the editorial was intended to boost the weekend slow news and low traffic.

    It's been published here, many times, that Apple customers are more engaged with their devices. It's also human nature that you'd dislike disparaging comments on something that not only you like, but invested thousands of dollars to have. So I'm surprised that you are "surprised" with the negative comments.

    The reason I visit (and read) AI daily, for more than a decade now, is that it presents what I consider a fair view of Apple, and its mistakes. Your piece deviated a little from that (my opinion), so I commented (you'll see, 'from my history', that I'm not a heavy poster, or a troll). If I had any interest in 'doom and gloom' biased Apple news and opinions, I'd be visiting TheVerge, where I could find Ina's hard on for Apple, Dieter's bullshit, and Nilay's sheer craziness!
    pscooter63randominternetpersonben20StrangeDays
  • Reply 52 of 119
    nhughesnhughes Posts: 736editor
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    osmartormenajr said:
    The macOS flaw was serious, but patched within a day almost. 
    Supposedly the flaw was publicized on Apple’s developer forums months ago, over the summer. It just didn’t get wide publicity until Tuesday. But it was not patched within a day.
    you wouldn't be here, replying the fortieth something forum post, hours after you originally posted your piece, on a weekend...

    Chill out dude
    Oh, also: I get paid to be here. This is literally my job.
    Is this passive-aggressive? Is it your job to pick little feuds with readers? You nitpicked on my summarization of the facts, which is an easy win for you, since I'm not a journalist (I'm assuming you are... you know, with a college degree). Although, you refrained from commenting on my most acidic perception: that the tone of the editorial was intended to boost the weekend slow news and low traffic.

    It's been published here, many times, that Apple customers are more engaged with their devices. It's also human nature that you'd dislike disparaging comments on something that not only you like, but invested thousands of dollars to have. So I'm surprised that you are "surprised" with the negative comments.

    The reason I visit (and read) AI daily, for more than a decade now, is that it presents what I consider a fair view of Apple, and its mistakes. Your piece deviated a little from that (my opinion), so I commented (you'll see, 'from my history', that I'm not a heavy poster, or a troll). If I had any interest in 'doom and gloom' biased Apple news and opinions, I'd be visiting TheVerge, where I could find Ina's hard on for Apple, Dieter's bullshit, and Nilay's sheer craziness!
    If you think this is a “feud,” then you’re only feuding with yourself.

    You made a (frankly condescending) comment about me engaging with commenters on my own editorial, at the website where I work — pointing out that I am here *hours* after I published, and *on a weekend.* Yeah, sometimes I work weekends, like many people do at many jobs. 

    Also, I never said I was “surprised” by negative comments. I expect readers to retort, and I am happy to engage in spirited debate. 
    gatorguy
  • Reply 53 of 119
    chasmchasm Posts: 564member
    I agree with StrangeDays that the article was more negative than was warranted, given the relative few who had any possibility of encountering most of these bugs. It was, however, a good one-article rundown of the problems, and it does rightly point out that Craig Federighi and his team have a slate of faux pas, bugs and delays (Apple Pay Cash *still* not quite working) that are tarnishing their reputation. This is what the betas are for, and hopefully Craig will get on the stick and put the discipline back into the teams. But the "techie echo chamber" StrangeDays refers to is real, and on display in the tone of Neil's piece.
    pscooter63randominternetpersonStrangeDays
  • Reply 54 of 119
    nhughesnhughes Posts: 736editor
    chasm said:
    I agree with StrangeDays that the article was more negative than was warranted, given the relative few who had any possibility of encountering most of these bugs. It was, however, a good one-article rundown of the problems, and it does rightly point out that Craig Federighi and his team have a slate of faux pas, bugs and delays (Apple Pay Cash *still* not quite working) that are tarnishing their reputation. This is what the betas are for, and hopefully Craig will get on the stick and put the discipline back into the teams. But the "techie echo chamber" StrangeDays refers to is real, and on display in the tone of Neil's piece.
    Thanks for the comment — I appreciate the level headed rebuttal. I think Craig will be fine — he’s a standout at Apple keynotes and beloved by the developer community. 
  • Reply 55 of 119
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    osmartormenajr said:
    The macOS flaw was serious, but patched within a day almost. 
    Supposedly the flaw was publicized on Apple’s developer forums months ago, over the summer. It just didn’t get wide publicity until Tuesday. But it was not patched within a day.
    you wouldn't be here, replying the fortieth something forum post, hours after you originally posted your piece, on a weekend...

    Chill out dude
    Oh, also: I get paid to be here. This is literally my job.
    Is this passive-aggressive? Is it your job to pick little feuds with readers? You nitpicked on my summarization of the facts, which is an easy win for you, since I'm not a journalist (I'm assuming you are... you know, with a college degree). Although, you refrained from commenting on my most acidic perception: that the tone of the editorial was intended to boost the weekend slow news and low traffic.

    It's been published here, many times, that Apple customers are more engaged with their devices. It's also human nature that you'd dislike disparaging comments on something that not only you like, but invested thousands of dollars to have. So I'm surprised that you are "surprised" with the negative comments.

    The reason I visit (and read) AI daily, for more than a decade now, is that it presents what I consider a fair view of Apple, and its mistakes. Your piece deviated a little from that (my opinion), so I commented (you'll see, 'from my history', that I'm not a heavy poster, or a troll). If I had any interest in 'doom and gloom' biased Apple news and opinions, I'd be visiting TheVerge, where I could find Ina's hard on for Apple, Dieter's bullshit, and Nilay's sheer craziness!
    If you think this is a “feud,” then you’re only feuding with yourself.

    You made a (frankly condescending) comment about me engaging with commenters on my own editorial, at the website where I work — pointing out that I am here *hours* after I published, and *on a weekend.* Yeah, sometimes I work weekends, like many people do at many jobs. 

    Also, I never said I was “surprised” by negative comments. I expect readers to retort, and I am happy to engage in spirited debate. 
    Well, now I know this is passive-aggressive. You still insist on the preamble, while avoiding the meat of the matter. You have no fact wrong in your piece, and most of your conclusions are common sense (and were published before on AI). But your piece, its heading, and all of this on the forums, are good indicatives (to say the least) of clickbait, "Apple's doom is approaching". Yeah, they messed up, and they'll know better from now (one hopes!), but not because they read your piece.

    The fact that this is the fourth exchange you have, with an anonymous reader, in a discussion that appears to be escalating (over nothing), is just weird! The first one or two could be chalked up to a spirited exchange, but the others don't. I'm not working today, woke up late and all, but I am already tired of this argument, since it gains me nothing.

    Feel free (oh, was that condescending, because this is like, "your job") to answer this last to your heart's content, because I won't visit this thread anymore. I'm getting out to play with my boys!

    Nice weekend to everyone who enjoyed (or not, most likely) this odd exchange.
  • Reply 56 of 119
    danielmunozdanielmunoz Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    I would never understand an Apple apologist or have empathy for them. Apple software quality is clearly declining since a few years. iOS and macOS have embarrassing bugs affecting everyday quality of life and use with Apple devices. If you deny this, you are not objetive and you think what you want to think. Apple needs to severely improve their software quality.
  • Reply 57 of 119
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 1,657member
    Thank you, AI, for taking Apple to task on its spiraling software reliability issues. I'm actually surprised to see this article. I expect lots of negativity toward the author, here in comments, but this issue needs to be pushed into the spotlight. Apple's quality control has clearly suffered under their "push more versions, new devices, faster" business model. It's not just that though. It's the whole product design mindset that has gone wrong at Apple since 2013. I like my iPad Pro, but I hate the GUI on iOS. Bugs introduced in iOS 7 still aren't dealt with five major versions later. Useless junk features are added to push new sales while existing software is crippled to squeeze it into iOS. macOS is falling, too, right along side iOS, mostly to make macOS promote iOS features and appearances.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 58 of 119
    Not 100% sure here ... the MacOS root issue could only occur if the Guest User account was enabled ?

    Answer my own post here :# ... disabling the Guest User account was part of a remediation advised by Apple prior to the release of the security patch.
    edited December 2017
  • Reply 59 of 119
    nhughesnhughes Posts: 736editor
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    osmartormenajr said:
    The macOS flaw was serious, but patched within a day almost. 
    Supposedly the flaw was publicized on Apple’s developer forums months ago, over the summer. It just didn’t get wide publicity until Tuesday. But it was not patched within a day.
    you wouldn't be here, replying the fortieth something forum post, hours after you originally posted your piece, on a weekend...

    Chill out dude
    Oh, also: I get paid to be here. This is literally my job.
    Is this passive-aggressive? Is it your job to pick little feuds with readers? You nitpicked on my summarization of the facts, which is an easy win for you, since I'm not a journalist (I'm assuming you are... you know, with a college degree). Although, you refrained from commenting on my most acidic perception: that the tone of the editorial was intended to boost the weekend slow news and low traffic.

    It's been published here, many times, that Apple customers are more engaged with their devices. It's also human nature that you'd dislike disparaging comments on something that not only you like, but invested thousands of dollars to have. So I'm surprised that you are "surprised" with the negative comments.

    The reason I visit (and read) AI daily, for more than a decade now, is that it presents what I consider a fair view of Apple, and its mistakes. Your piece deviated a little from that (my opinion), so I commented (you'll see, 'from my history', that I'm not a heavy poster, or a troll). If I had any interest in 'doom and gloom' biased Apple news and opinions, I'd be visiting TheVerge, where I could find Ina's hard on for Apple, Dieter's bullshit, and Nilay's sheer craziness!
    If you think this is a “feud,” then you’re only feuding with yourself.

    You made a (frankly condescending) comment about me engaging with commenters on my own editorial, at the website where I work — pointing out that I am here *hours* after I published, and *on a weekend.* Yeah, sometimes I work weekends, like many people do at many jobs. 

    Also, I never said I was “surprised” by negative comments. I expect readers to retort, and I am happy to engage in spirited debate. 
    Well, now I know this is passive-aggressive. You still insist on the preamble, while avoiding the meat of the matter. You have no fact wrong in your piece, and most of your conclusions are common sense (and were published before on AI). But your piece, its heading, and all of this on the forums, are good indicatives (to say the least) of clickbait, "Apple's doom is approaching". Yeah, they messed up, and they'll know better from now (one hopes!), but not because they read your piece.

    The fact that this is the fourth exchange you have, with an anonymous reader, in a discussion that appears to be escalating (over nothing), is just weird! The first one or two could be chalked up to a spirited exchange, but the others don't. I'm not working today, woke up late and all, but I am already tired of this argument, since it gains me nothing.

    Feel free (oh, was that condescending, because this is like, "your job") to answer this last to your heart's content, because I won't visit this thread anymore. I'm getting out to play with my boys!

    Nice weekend to everyone who enjoyed (or not, most likely) this odd exchange.
    Funny side note: Steve Jobs once emailed one of my articles to Eddy Cue, about some deal Apple had signed with book publishers, because Steve himself did not know about it. I know about the exchange between the two of them because it was revealed in a lawsuit court filing. Do I think my editorial is going to be the impetus for some sort of change at Apple? Of course not. But I do know they read (and sometimes get news about their own company from) us, and I think that’s pretty cool. 

    I didnt respond to your “low” weekend traffic and clickbait theories because they’re nonsense. But you can choose to believe whatever you wish. Happy to debate, just not a fan of attempts at personal insults. 

    Enjoy your weekend!
    edited December 2017 welshdog
  • Reply 60 of 119
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 1,657member
    tzeshan said:
    I have alerted on AI multiple times that Apple quality is degrading under Cook.  He is trying to play as a nice person and paying too much attention on political issues. It seems the problem is getting worse. 
    Oh look, this illogical complaint again. No, Cook's social politics have nothing to do with Apple product quality. You're just looking to scapegoat the social issues you don't value (or feel threatened by).

    Tim Cook's social politics are the only thing about him that I like anymore, since his leadership of Apple has proven to be without vision and focused on MBA CEO/Wall Street pathology.
    randominternetpersonmuthuk_vanalingam
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