Apple software sees disastrous, embarrassing week with iOS springboard crash, macOS root u...

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  • Reply 101 of 119
    These are the problems when a company gets as big as Apple.  The Apple of 2000-2010 was slimmed down by Steve Jobs and produced just a few excellent products.  In general, those products were very simple and did only what they were designed to do without a whole lot of superfluous code.  Now Apple is finding itself in the same predicament that Microsoft has in the past.  As capabilities become greater and the platform is opened up to more and more applications (both from within Apple and by app developers) the code is getting much more complex and interrelated.  Changes that one department makes will cascade through the entire platform with unanticipated results.

    I think things are going to get worse as Apple keeps adding systems like 3D cameras, facial recognition, and augmented reality.  The code gets bloated and you have many more people making changes.  Apple is doing the best it can, but now maybe Apple users can appreciate the problems they have criticized Microsoft for over the years when issues slip through the cracks and need to be fixed on-the-fly.
    asdasdmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 102 of 119
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,854member
    nhughes said:
    Hyperbolic piece, our week after Thanksgiving was joyous and without issue on any of our devices? What are we doing wrong??

    Guessed the byline by the headline. 
    "Major problems did not affect me, therefore they are not major problems."

    I said Apple, the company, had a week that was not joyous. By any measure it was a public relations disaster. I am genuinely glad to hear your week was joyous, though.

    That's just silly.  Yes, there were problems.  Beyond the root access issue (which was quickly corrected), none of them were major.  I don't say that just as someone who didn't experience them.  I say that as someone who understands math.  The crashing thing--this is the first I've heard of it (and I follow pretty closely).  How many people could it have affected?  The autocorrect thing is an ongoing bug they are working out---I had the "I.t." bug earlier.  It's just a bit of an annoyance.  The delay isn HomePod?  It wasn't ready.  It happens all the time.  So no, it wasn't a great week.  But it was far from a PR nightmare.  
    tmayStrangeDays
  • Reply 103 of 119
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,540member
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    osmartormenajr said:
    The macOS flaw was serious, but patched within a day almost. 
    Supposedly the flaw was publicized on Apple’s developer forums months ago, over the summer. It just didn’t get wide publicity until Tuesday. But it was not patched within a day.
    Oops, it seems I've hurt some feelings. You do realize that you started your sentence with "Supposedly", and that I finished mine with "almost". Most important, if you hadn't already convinced yourself that your piece was a bit of a hyperbole, you wouldn't be here, replying the fortieth something forum post, hours after you originally posted your piece, on a weekend...
    I can assure you that you didn’t hurt my feelings. Just trying to offer accurate information. 

    I respond to comments extensively on all of my editorials and reviews. Feel free to check my post history. It’s good to engage with readers. 
    You do have a troll problem. It seems to be really close to you right now. Church bells and lightning frighten them away.
  • Reply 104 of 119
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    Hyperbolic piece, our week after Thanksgiving was joyous and without issue on any of our devices? What are we doing wrong??

    Guessed the byline by the headline. 
    "Major problems did not affect me, therefore they are not major problems."

    I said Apple, the company, had a week that was not joyous. By any measure it was a public relations disaster. I am genuinely glad to hear your week was joyous, though.
    By the same exact token -- just because some people experienced problems doesn't mean many or most. I've been with family all thru and after Thanksgiving, all Apple devices, and none of us were in a living nightmare because none of us experienced any problems. Sure bugs exist, but the way the techie echo chamber makes it out you'd think everyone's devices were failing everywhere. They aren't. 
    If you found out that your front door lock didn't work properly, even though no actually one took advantage of it and broke into your home, would you give the lock company a pass for their mistake? The root bug in macOS is an embarrassment for Apple, and they deserve to be taken to task for it.

    My iPhone X was not affected by the iOS 11.1.2 bug, but my wife's was. Took multiple attempts to install the 11.2 update because the springboard kept repeatedly crashing. On any week, that would be a bad bug. On this week, it's the capstone for an unfortunate series of self-inflicted wounds.
    I'm not denying there are bugs here. But the impact has been minimal due to the speedy response. I don't know anyone who had intruders from this zero-day exploit.

    In my mind, a true PR disaster -- having your product burn down cars and catch fire on planes, prompting every single domestic flight to cite it by name, triggering multiple recalls. That's a disaster, with real-world impact. This wasn't that. That's why I say it's hyperbolic to equate these relatively low-impact bugs to true disasters.
    Comparing Apple's PR disasters to Samsung's is pointless. I expect Apple to be better than Samsung. Should we give Apple points for living up to the lowest possible standard?

    And your conspiracy theory about balancing out other editorials is laughable. Let it go.
    Er, Apple is better than Samsung -- which is why iPhone not burning down cars, banned on all domestic flights, or recalled, and the only "disasters" cited are a minor text annoyance and a zero-day exploit with no known uses. 

    But I get it -- the Techie Echo Chamber of Doom, Worry, and Concern (tm) is in effect.
  • Reply 105 of 119
    nhughes said:
    tzeshan said:
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    Hyperbolic piece, our week after Thanksgiving was joyous and without issue on any of our devices? What are we doing wrong??

    Guessed the byline by the headline. 
    "Major problems did not affect me, therefore they are not major problems."

    I said Apple, the company, had a week that was not joyous. By any measure it was a public relations disaster. I am genuinely glad to hear your week was joyous, though.
    By the same exact token -- just because some people experienced problems doesn't mean many or most. I've been with family all thru and after Thanksgiving, all Apple devices, and none of us were in a living nightmare because none of us experienced any problems. Sure bugs exist, but the way the techie echo chamber makes it out you'd think everyone's devices were failing everywhere. They aren't. 
    If you found out that your front door lock didn't work properly, even though no actually one took advantage of it and broke into your home, would you give the lock company a pass for their mistake? The root bug in macOS is an embarrassment for Apple, and they deserve to be taken to task for it.

    My iPhone X was not affected by the iOS 11.1.2 bug, but my wife's was. Took multiple attempts to install the 11.2 update because the springboard kept repeatedly crashing. On any week, that would be a bad bug. On this week, it's the capstone for an unfortunate series of self-inflicted wounds.
    I'm not denying there are bugs here. But the impact has been minimal due to the speedy response. I don't know anyone who had intruders from this zero-day exploit.

    In my mind, a true PR disaster -- having your product burn down cars and catch fire on planes, prompting every single domestic flight to cite it by name, triggering multiple recalls. That's a disaster, with real-world impact. This wasn't that. That's why I say it's hyperbolic to equate these relatively low-impact bugs to true disasters.
    But but it does affect goodwill toward Apple. Apple earn most profits on smartphone sales because people trust the high quality of Apple products. 
    Which is exactly why the first section of this editorial is about customer satisfaction, and not the bugs themselves. This guy gets it.
    That guy's posting history speaks for itself. That you give him the gold star speaks volumes as well.
  • Reply 106 of 119
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 4,881member
    sdw2001 said:
    nhughes said:
    Hyperbolic piece, our week after Thanksgiving was joyous and without issue on any of our devices? What are we doing wrong??

    Guessed the byline by the headline. 
    "Major problems did not affect me, therefore they are not major problems."

    I said Apple, the company, had a week that was not joyous. By any measure it was a public relations disaster. I am genuinely glad to hear your week was joyous, though.

    That's just silly.  Yes, there were problems.  Beyond the root access issue (which was quickly corrected), none of them were major.  I don't say that just as someone who didn't experience them.  I say that as someone who understands math.  The crashing thing--this is the first I've heard of it (and I follow pretty closely).  How many people could it have affected?  The autocorrect thing is an ongoing bug they are working out---I had the "I.t." bug earlier.  It's just a bit of an annoyance.  The delay isn HomePod?  It wasn't ready.  It happens all the time.  So no, it wasn't a great week.  But it was far from a PR nightmare.  
    The crashing bug would have affected hundreds of millions but I think the fix got out in time. 


  • Reply 107 of 119
    cyclonuscyclonus Posts: 2unconfirmed, member
    nhughes said:

    Which is exactly why the first section of this editorial is about customer satisfaction, and not the bugs themselves. This guy gets it.
    I think it's pretty fair to say that there have been a number of equally "disastrous" situations in Apple software history with far more widespread and serious damage done to data and some cases hardware.  I'm looking at you 10.5 data loss bug.  Oh and the 10.6 guest user data loss bug.  Completely lose your data forever simply by copying and pasting or signing into a guest account.  How about iPhone OS 2 launch where simply launching the AIM app would totally brick an iPhone?  MobileMe iPocalypse anyone?  Don't even get me started with iTunes and it's track record for abominable horrors in it's time.  Oh how about Apple Music's disappearing libraries?  iTunes Music Match kidnapping songs?  I think you get it.  

    All of these incredibly public software meltdowns followed by...consistently top-line customer sat scores.  Having followed Apple and their customers as long as you have, I think you could agree with me when I say that Apple's overall user experience is fantastic enough to negate minor irritations like what you've written about here.  Apple always responds, repairs and learns quickly.  

    In terms of sample size - I spent the entire week with literally hundreds of people using Apple hardware and never encountered a single soul complaining about respringing.  Most definitely never heard anyone fretting about compromised root accounts.  
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 108 of 119
    welshdogwelshdog Posts: 1,540member
    vmarks said:
    I know people will think I'm making more out of this bug than there is. 
    This bug was very serious and if it truly was around for more than a month, then there are surely compromised systems out there. When I was facility/IT manager at a video post house full of Macs we ran the systems with admin logins, but not root.  We gave editors and others admin access because they often needed to install things in the course of their daily work. With a client sitting in the room paying hundreds of dollars an hour, they could not wait for me to appear (if I was available), log in and install a font or plug-in or app or whatever.  And you know what? We never had any problems because my editors were responsible people and didn't do stupid things with their computers.

    But root? Yeah no way did anyone but me have root access. Of course back then, there was no root access bug.
  • Reply 109 of 119
    vmarks said:
    nhughes said:

    I've been the managing editor of AppleInsider for 8 and a half years...
    Can you explain the decline in the number of posts? Articles used to get hundreds of replies, but nowadays it seems only every now and then an article receives over 30 posts. Most articles are getting single digit posts, making this site feel like a ghost town. There used to be really great discussions on all things tech, which I always loved to read and participate in.
    Apple became successful. 8 years ago, Apple was still the underdog. The iPhone was beginning to get popular, Macs were becoming more prevalent, and Apple fans would congregate at their favorite sites to discuss Apple and all things tech. With Apple's success, the need to have specific places to gather has diminished. You could just as well ask why the MacWorld conference ended, why MacWorld magazine closed up print operations, why MacUser is gone, why MacFixIt is gone, why MacNN is gone, and others I can't recall right now. 
    Only problem with that hypothesis is the comment counts on MR have blown up, not down.
  • Reply 110 of 119
    holyone said:
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:

    I've been the managing editor of AppleInsider for 8 and a half years...
    Can you explain the decline in the number of posts? Articles used to get hundreds of replies, but nowadays it seems only every now and then an article receives over 30 posts. Most articles are getting single digit posts, making this site feel like a ghost town. There used to be really great discussions on all things tech, which I always loved to read and participate in.
    I don’t know the answer for sure, but I can offer you a few educated guesses:

    - We publish more news, which pushes older stories down the page, which leads to fewer comments. Weekend content tends to receive more comments because there isn’t as much news being published.
    - We, along with every other website on the internet, have a troll problem, which stifles discussion and discourages new people from commenting.
    @nhughes also when unpopular or Apple critical opinion or thought gets quickly get derailed by the strangedays of this forum, it goes a long way to stifling discussion, this article to me is fair and just but coz its not Apple praising he was the first to reply with personalized snit with little relevance to the core issues raised. That entire back and forth was just tiresome to read, I mean honestly can Apple do no wrong and be called on it ?.
    Nonsense. First, it wasn't a derailment to state my opinion of the very topic of the editorial. Second, it doesn't stifle anything -- as noted by the 100+ comment count on this thread, which is among the higher. 

    As to your claim, it's quite wrong. My impetus for commenting was not on the existence of bugs or lack of praise -- but rather the hyperbolic tone of the piece, which is akin to that on non-Apple sites, the doom-and-gloom crowd who believe Apple is failing left and right. I think the conclusion (Apple = disaster) is not proven by the the week's past bug fixes. I think "disaster" is having your product burn down vehicles and threaten to down aircraft. But since this is a discussion forum I logged in to discuss it.

    I realize this stance is unpopular with those with an axe to grind, but what can ya do. 
    edited December 2017
  • Reply 111 of 119

    Quite frankly - Tim Cook is doing a piss fucking poor job

    Instead of wanting on about social issues he needs to get his fucking head in the game

    The patch to macOS has fucked my alias's icons - so fuck knows what they have done to fix it

    And this on top of some of the worst design decisions ever - a phone made of glass - fuck me - just because some fucking virgin nerds want wireless charging...retardation at its greatest

    And no fucking home button - because we always want to pick up the fucking phone and look at it to get it to authenticate...someone at Apple is fucking retarded
    Hmm yeah don't remember the world ending with the iPhone 4 models, which were incredibly popular despite a real glass panel. Still have mine in the drawer as a backup, in fact (after loaning it out to family for a time). How did it not turn to dust thru the years of use!?

    Clearly you've not used the X. Looking at it is not a problem since, unless youre blind, you always you know, look at your phone. Dur.
  • Reply 112 of 119
    Bacillus3 said:
    nhughes said:
    Hyperbolic piece, our week after Thanksgiving was joyous and without issue on any of our devices? What are we doing wrong??

    Guessed the byline by the headline. 
    "Major problems did not affect me, therefore they are not major problems."

    I said Apple, the company, had a week that was not joyous. By any measure it was a public relations disaster. I am genuinely glad to hear your week was joyous, though.
    By the same exact token -- just because some people experienced problems doesn't mean many or most. I've been with family all thru and after Thanksgiving, all Apple devices, and none of us were in a living nightmare because none of us experienced any problems. Sure bugs exist, but the way the techie echo chamber makes it out you'd think everyone's devices were failing everywhere. They aren't. 
    So we should be thankful that 10 years of high-tech at 300.000 computations per second have brought you to the wisdom that unaffected users remained unaffected
    You failed to understand the post so I'll try to make it simpler for you. Not very many people were affected by the iOS bugs relative to the user base. It was not a disaster and really nobody in the world cares or is as upset about it as the haters are.
  • Reply 113 of 119

    I'm not denying there are bugs here. But the impact has been minimal due to the speedy response. I don't know anyone who had intruders from this zero-day exploit.

    In my mind, a true PR disaster -- having your product burn down cars and catch fire on planes, prompting every single domestic flight to cite it by name, triggering multiple recalls. That's a disaster, with real-world impact. This wasn't that. That's why I say it's hyperbolic to equate these relatively low-impact bugs to true disasters.
    Comparatively speaking, a major security flaw and constant reboots of a device most people seem to use throughout the day are, in fact PR disasters for Apple.  I expect crap from Samsung, I don't expect it from Apple, so when something like this does happen, even with speedy and recovery, it's relatively major.  I'm not saying it's objectively on the same level as Samsung's failures, that would be absurd, but Apple is so much better than Samsung that it doesn't take as much for people to express "whisky tango foxtrot, over" about it.
    They're only disasters if they cast a wide net on the user base. Other than us discussing it on a techie rumors site, nobody else in the world is talking about these bugs. It just didn't affect that many users. Autocorrecting to a[?] was a disaster? No. It happened to some people, it was fixed, and the world moved on without a second thought.
  • Reply 114 of 119

    asdasd said:
    sdw2001 said:
    nhughes said:
    Hyperbolic piece, our week after Thanksgiving was joyous and without issue on any of our devices? What are we doing wrong??

    Guessed the byline by the headline. 
    "Major problems did not affect me, therefore they are not major problems."

    I said Apple, the company, had a week that was not joyous. By any measure it was a public relations disaster. I am genuinely glad to hear your week was joyous, though.

    That's just silly.  Yes, there were problems.  Beyond the root access issue (which was quickly corrected), none of them were major.  I don't say that just as someone who didn't experience them.  I say that as someone who understands math.  The crashing thing--this is the first I've heard of it (and I follow pretty closely).  How many people could it have affected?  The autocorrect thing is an ongoing bug they are working out---I had the "I.t." bug earlier.  It's just a bit of an annoyance.  The delay isn HomePod?  It wasn't ready.  It happens all the time.  So no, it wasn't a great week.  But it was far from a PR nightmare.  
    The crashing bug would have affected hundreds of millions but I think the fix got out in time. 
    Or maybe it just wasn't that big of a deal -- it certainly didn't affect every non-patched user because many of my circle haven't run any recent updates. I'd never even heard about it until reading it here.

    Citing parallel universes where it affected hundreds of millions of people is pretty silly.
    edited December 2017
  • Reply 115 of 119
    Thanks for the recap/overview, Mr. Hughes.
    edited December 2017 nhughesjSnively
  • Reply 116 of 119
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:

    I've been the managing editor of AppleInsider for 8 and a half years...
    Can you explain the decline in the number of posts? Articles used to get hundreds of replies, but nowadays it seems only every now and then an article receives over 30 posts. Most articles are getting single digit posts, making this site feel like a ghost town. There used to be really great discussions on all things tech, which I always loved to read and participate in.
    I don’t know the answer for sure, but I can offer you a few educated guesses:

    - We publish more news, which pushes older stories down the page, which leads to fewer comments. Weekend content tends to receive more comments because there isn’t as much news being published.
    - We, along with every other website on the internet, have a troll problem, which stifles discussion and discourages new people from commenting.
    This reads like valid reasons. A pity with the trolls, for sure. I guess I need to put the troll alert cap on, and refrain from responding.

    Anyway, here's hoping for technical discussions, Apple related and beyond!
  • Reply 117 of 119
    vmarks said:
    Can you explain the decline in the number of posts?
    Apple became successful. 8 years ago, Apple was still the underdog. The iPhone was beginning to get popular, Macs were becoming more prevalent, and Apple fans would congregate at their favorite sites to discuss Apple and all things tech. With Apple's success, the need to have specific places to gather has diminished. You could just as well ask why the MacWorld conference ended, why MacWorld magazine closed up print operations, why MacUser is gone, why MacFixIt is gone, why MacNN is gone, and others I can't recall right now. 
    Well I guess that's true as well. Things do indeed change. I would love to see a website, this or any other for that matter, to be troll-free. Just people discussing all thing tech, not just limited to Apple. We used to do just that at this site, but alas, trolls. I guess there's no way to ban them back and every time as that would require an army of moderators.

    Oh well, such is life.

  • Reply 118 of 119
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,377member

    Quite frankly - Tim Cook is doing a piss fucking poor job

    Instead of wanting on about social issues he needs to get his fucking head in the game

    The patch to macOS has fucked my alias's icons - so fuck knows what they have done to fix it

    And this on top of some of the worst design decisions ever - a phone made of glass - fuck me - just because some fucking virgin nerds want wireless charging...retardation at its greatest

    And no fucking home button - because we always want to pick up the fucking phone and look at it to get it to authenticate...someone at Apple is fucking retarded
    Hmm yeah don't remember the world ending with the iPhone 4 models, which were incredibly popular despite a real glass panel. Still have mine in the drawer as a backup, in fact (after loaning it out to family for a time). How did it not turn to dust thru the years of use!?

    Clearly you've not used the X. Looking at it is not a problem since, unless youre blind, you always you know, look at your phone. Dur.
    He should’ve written it as fuçk; then we could’ve said: “Pardon your French!”
  • Reply 119 of 119
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    nhughes said:
    osmartormenajr said:
    The macOS flaw was serious, but patched within a day almost. 
    Supposedly the flaw was publicized on Apple’s developer forums months ago, over the summer. It just didn’t get wide publicity until Tuesday. But it was not patched within a day.
    you wouldn't be here, replying the fortieth something forum post, hours after you originally posted your piece, on a weekend...

    Chill out dude
    Oh, also: I get paid to be here. This is literally my job.
    Is this passive-aggressive? Is it your job to pick little feuds with readers? You nitpicked on my summarization of the facts, which is an easy win for you, since I'm not a journalist (I'm assuming you are... you know, with a college degree). Although, you refrained from commenting on my most acidic perception: that the tone of the editorial was intended to boost the weekend slow news and low traffic.

    It's been published here, many times, that Apple customers are more engaged with their devices. It's also human nature that you'd dislike disparaging comments on something that not only you like, but invested thousands of dollars to have. So I'm surprised that you are "surprised" with the negative comments.

    The reason I visit (and read) AI daily, for more than a decade now, is that it presents what I consider a fair view of Apple, and its mistakes. Your piece deviated a little from that (my opinion), so I commented (you'll see, 'from my history', that I'm not a heavy poster, or a troll). If I had any interest in 'doom and gloom' biased Apple news and opinions, I'd be visiting TheVerge, where I could find Ina's hard on for Apple, Dieter's bullshit, and Nilay's sheer craziness!
    If you think this is a “feud,” then you’re only feuding with yourself.

    You made a (frankly condescending) comment about me engaging with commenters on my own editorial, at the website where I work — pointing out that I am here *hours* after I published, and *on a weekend.* Yeah, sometimes I work weekends, like many people do at many jobs. 

    Also, I never said I was “surprised” by negative comments. I expect readers to retort, and I am happy to engage in spirited debate. 
    Well, now I know this is passive-aggressive. You still insist on the preamble, while avoiding the meat of the matter. You have no fact wrong in your piece, and most of your conclusions are common sense (and were published before on AI). But your piece, its heading, and all of this on the forums, are good indicatives (to say the least) of clickbait, "Apple's doom is approaching". Yeah, they messed up, and they'll know better from now (one hopes!), but not because they read your piece.

    The fact that this is the fourth exchange you have, with an anonymous reader, in a discussion that appears to be escalating (over nothing), is just weird! The first one or two could be chalked up to a spirited exchange, but the others don't. I'm not working today, woke up late and all, but I am already tired of this argument, since it gains me nothing.

    Feel free (oh, was that condescending, because this is like, "your job") to answer this last to your heart's content, because I won't visit this thread anymore. I'm getting out to play with my boys!

    Nice weekend to everyone who enjoyed (or not, most likely) this odd exchange.
    Funny side note: Steve Jobs once emailed one of my articles to Eddy Cue, about some deal Apple had signed with book publishers, because Steve himself did not know about it. I know about the exchange between the two of them because it was revealed in a lawsuit court filing. Do I think my editorial is going to be the impetus for some sort of change at Apple? Of course not. But I do know they read (and sometimes get news about their own company from) us, and I think that’s pretty cool. 

    I didnt respond to your “low” weekend traffic and clickbait theories because they’re nonsense. But you can choose to believe whatever you wish. Happy to debate, just not a fan of attempts at personal insults. 

    Enjoy your weekend!
    I've never seen an author engage this much with readers.  It's actually kind of cool.  And entertaining.  LOL
    asdasd
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