fastasleep said: People bring up the back button turning into the left angle arrow and text all the time, so I’m kind of using that as an example where there’s no need for it at all as we edge swipe back instead. The text labels provided context as a learning tool. It seems like that’s the general direction for a lot of major interface changes and to me swipes are infinitely better than pecking at little isolated “buttons”.
This is kind of like the debate over shortcuts or right-click. Yes, users get used to them, and then take advantage of them to speed their interaction. BUT, the UI/UX debate centers around their being required and primary. On MacOS, this would be almost similar to saying you have Apple-S, so we can just get rid of the File menu. That wouldn't be a UI advance, even if most of the user-base eventually got used to knowing they save with Apple-S.
Folks pretending to be UX experts here are full of shit. The “buttons” they are bitching being flat gray text about are tabs and not buttons and lined up on the bottom of the screen. Active text is largely blue like hyperlinks. ... There’s been quite a bit of kvetching from UX folks like Tog about Apple after they left but honestly as much as I liked his work back in the day what Apple has today is just fine and no worse than the “glory days” when Apple maintained a human factors group. There were just as many rough interaction touch points back then as today that have faded from memory.
That the interface of today may not be to your liking doesn’t make it bad.
If you're referring to me, I'm not pretending to be a UX expert. That said, I've paid a good bit of attention to it now for 30+ years. And, no, a lot of UX elements that used to be menus or buttons and are now just grey text on white background often don't give any indication. Users just get to know that were is says, say 'Done' or 'Exit' is actually something that can be touched to take action.
It gets worse in a lot of apps where it's just some symbol... and you just have to guess or try it to see what it does. And, as I mentioned earlier, colored icons are significantly better than B&W icons (proven with studies). This isn't just subjective speculation.
I agree that there have always been rough UI aspects here or there, or transitions which caused struggles (example, when Apple implemented right-click). But, it wasn't en masse like it has been since around iOS 7. And, once Apple threw UI out the window, most of the developers of the apps did the same, with even worse consistency, as they re-did the apps to match Apple's lead.
The problem with this idea that just because it's different or we don't like it, that it isn't bad.... is that a lot of Apple's claimed productivity superiority back in the 90s was based off the UI and impact on app UI. The criticism of Windows was based on how inconsistent the UI was, and a similar argument about how people just learn to deal with it.
So, now that Apple's UI isn't that much superior to Windows UI, that's another area that puts the two platforms closer together. There are other reasons to still prefer the Apple platform, but productivity due to UI isn't so much one of them any longer. Can I deal with that? I suppose. But, it is a bit disheartening to hear Apple fans saying it doesn't matter.
This seems to be turning into a discussion about maintaining “backwards” UI compatibility. But in the development pit it is a question of whether code is written to support the latest and greatest hardware. Apple has the luxury of its installed base more than willing to regularly upgrade to the latest and greatest hardware. And I am happy to be one of those willing to upgrade to the latest and greatest hardware. I feel sorry for the Android development staff who know their latest and greatest features will not be accessible/usable by the overwhelming majority of their user base.
FYI I do not own a Mac (program in Windows). I do own an iPhone X, iPad (Pro) and Watch (version 1). Have owned every version of the iPhone except for the original “E” network one. Owned the iPad original and iPad 3 (1st w Retina display). Used the 3 until earlier this year. It took all IOS upgrades to 10 (32 bit) and operated slowly but surely.
I had to bite my tongue the other day when a client brought up Apple's "planned obsolescence" the other day. You've got it exactly right. If you look at how quickly their A-series processors are improving and factor in device turnover, there's little reason to pander too heavily to the lowest common denominators out in the wild. People should maybe get clearer warnings on older devices that performance may be degraded when updating to the next major iOS version, and it'd be nice if they made it easier for people to know how to speed things back up by changing certain settings, or better yet, offer a reduced performance mode for older devices with less visual effects or whatever else eats up CPU and RAM. They continue to release security updates for previous OS versions up to a point, which helps some people stay on those older versions, at least to a point. Given how far back you *can* install new iOS/macOS versions on older hardware, I think they're the exact opposite of planned obsolescence. Maybe they just need to help people with preconceived notions figure this stuff out.
fastasleep said: I had to bite my tongue the other day when a client brought up Apple's "planned obsolescence" the other day. You've got it exactly right. If you look at how quickly their A-series processors are improving and factor in device turnover, there's little reason to pander too heavily to the lowest common denominators out in the wild. People should maybe get clearer warnings on older devices that performance may be degraded when updating to the next major iOS version, and it'd be nice if they made it easier for people to know how to speed things back up by changing certain settings, or better yet, offer a reduced performance mode for older devices with less visual effects or whatever else eats up CPU and RAM. They continue to release security updates for previous OS versions up to a point, which helps some people stay on those older versions, at least to a point. Given how far back you *can* install new iOS/macOS versions on older hardware, I think they're the exact opposite of planned obsolescence. Maybe they just need to help people with preconceived notions figure this stuff out.
The problem is that Apple allowed OSs to be utilized too far back on hardware they should have cut off. I can see why they did it, as they'd have gotten criticism either way... so they gave the choice. I guess that's a good thing, except as you say, maybe there should have been warnings. But, someone in marketing probably decided that wouldn't be great either.
Where I think Apple really made a mistake, though, is that instead of making a proper price-range of products, they got into this habit of continuing to make old models and sell them at reduced prices. As I said earlier, there were times when they were selling NEW products that were obsolete out of the box in terms of functionality and experience with the current OS.
fastasleep said: People bring up the back button turning into the left angle arrow and text all the time, so I’m kind of using that as an example where there’s no need for it at all as we edge swipe back instead. The text labels provided context as a learning tool. It seems like that’s the general direction for a lot of major interface changes and to me swipes are infinitely better than pecking at little isolated “buttons”.
This is kind of like the debate over shortcuts or right-click. Yes, users get used to them, and then take advantage of them to speed their interaction. BUT, the UI/UX debate centers around their being required and primary. On MacOS, this would be almost similar to saying you have Apple-S, so we can just get rid of the File menu. That wouldn't be a UI advance, even if most of the user-base eventually got used to knowing they save with Apple-S.
That's not really a good analogy. Edge-swipes to navigate in various directions is pretty intuitive, and negates the need for navigation buttons (or in the case of swiping up from the bottom, the need for a physical home button on the iPhone X). The arrows/labels can go away in a scenario where you a) are aware of context — where you are in the app, and what came before it, and b) knowing that a right swipe from the left edge is going to take you there. Not in ALL cases, but like do you need a back button in Safari when you know swiping right takes you to the previous page? No, and they're smart about how they hide those controls when they're least likely to be needed. The goals seem to be, and should be: Get the buttons out of the way when you can, and get rid of them altogether when you can.
So, now that Apple's UI isn't that much superior to Windows UI, that's another area that puts the two platforms closer together. There are other reasons to still prefer the Apple platform, but productivity due to UI isn't so much one of them any longer. Can I deal with that? I suppose. But, it is a bit disheartening to hear Apple fans saying it doesn't matter.
Circular reasoning. Your presupposition that MS's UX is on par with Apple's is your opinion, and pretty sure you'd find strong disagreement with that here. I don't spend a lot of time in Windows (via Parallels VMs mostly) but I have always found it infuriating for a multitude of reasons.
And your argument that somehow the UX hasn't maintained its superiority since the 90's, and thus productivity hasn't either... I don't even know what to say. I'm like jumping between 6 Screens and passing windows between them via Mission Control and sliding through browser windows all with a multitouch trackpad on a 7 year old MacBook Pro running the latest macOS and amazed every day at how different this is from mucking around in System 7 back in the day.
fastasleep said: People bring up the back button turning into the left angle arrow and text all the time, so I’m kind of using that as an example where there’s no need for it at all as we edge swipe back instead. The text labels provided context as a learning tool. It seems like that’s the general direction for a lot of major interface changes and to me swipes are infinitely better than pecking at little isolated “buttons”.
This is kind of like the debate over shortcuts or right-click. Yes, users get used to them, and then take advantage of them to speed their interaction. BUT, the UI/UX debate centers around their being required and primary. On MacOS, this would be almost similar to saying you have Apple-S, so we can just get rid of the File menu. That wouldn't be a UI advance, even if most of the user-base eventually got used to knowing they save with Apple-S.
Folks pretending to be UX experts here are full of shit. The “buttons” they are bitching being flat gray text about are tabs and not buttons and lined up on the bottom of the screen. Active text is largely blue like hyperlinks. ... There’s been quite a bit of kvetching from UX folks like Tog about Apple after they left but honestly as much as I liked his work back in the day what Apple has today is just fine and no worse than the “glory days” when Apple maintained a human factors group. There were just as many rough interaction touch points back then as today that have faded from memory.
That the interface of today may not be to your liking doesn’t make it bad.
If you're referring to me, I'm not pretending to be a UX expert. That said, I've paid a good bit of attention to it now for 30+ years. And, no, a lot of UX elements that used to be menus or buttons and are now just grey text on white background often don't give any indication. Users just get to know that were is says, say 'Done' or 'Exit' is actually something that can be touched to take action.
It gets worse in a lot of apps where it's just some symbol... and you just have to guess or try it to see what it does. And, as I mentioned earlier, colored icons are significantly better than B&W icons (proven with studies). This isn't just subjective speculation.
That’s bullshit. I just went through many of the Apple apps and important touch elements are always a highlighted color whether they are text or icons. Certain ones, like tabs, highlight the active element/page but it is obvious the others can be tapped.
Done or Exit is never gray text on white backgrounds in Mail, Safari, Calendar, Maps, Photos, etc.
Are people getting used to it? Yes, but that's besides the point. People can get used to a really horrible UI. Apple's principal on UI, though, was always that it should be as usable as possible to a brand new user, while still being powerful for the advanced user. They've been breaking that in tons of ways, from visual to operation to inconsistency.
What is missed here imo is that the alternatives to Apple's UI is what is commercially available. - With iOS iPhones/iPads, it's still true that they can be picked up, and a new user can quickly know where they are and use the device. The iOS grid is simple/consistent. The most important icons have a standard shape and design. - This UI philosophy of consistency goes back to the Lisa and the early Mac. It is a desirable feature as IS staff I worked with wanted standard/limited home page customization on Windows 7 on work PCs. * In debates the common criticism of the iOS UI is that it is boring, too simple, too basic. All those "criticisms" are a strength of iOS.
* The competition to iOS; - Windows 8/10, the phone and finger touch tablet mode; The UI approach with finger touch is customization of tile size/color location. The UI shape in finger touch Windows looks like Legos spread across the screen. This riot of color/size/location/design in finger touch Windows applies to the key concept of consistency. A stranger can pick up a touch Windows device and not know where they are.
* Android, Samsung and Pixel; - Samsung Galaxy; Samsung adds several apps which do the same task. So, the app draw is flooded with apps. - Carriers can add their own set of apps on top of the ones put in by the OEM. - Pixel; is more "Apple like". Yet, by its very nature Android allows each phone's home page to look completely different. - Stock Android and OEM Android can have different shapes / colors with the icon for the same task. Of course someone familiar with Android would know to get to the app drawer but in my experience, Android phones don't have the almost immediate recognition/understanding by a stranger compared with iPhones.
* While someone can compare the iOS UI with an imagined perfect UI, to me the choice depends on what's commercially available. iOS remains the most intuitive UI compared with the finger touch OS competition.
There is an advantage MS have in Windows 10, and it's that allows you to switch from a touch optimized UI to a desktop UI. That means that Windows 10 gives a better experience as a desktop than iOS. An iPad with keyboard forces you to use a touch UI and apps, and it's not the best experience. It's very similar as using a touchscreen notebook with desktop apps, which at one time Steve Jobs criticized.
Bad news for software. He should not have influence over software.
So you think iOS 11 was a success without him?
Not that you're necessarily saying this, but how do we know he had absolutely nothing to do with iOS 11? Just because he isn't sitting in his design studio in Cupertino, doesn't mean he can't have an influence on design at Apple.
Of course but if you’re going to ignore the headline and meat of this story, why are you even commenting?
I’m really just trolling here because so many people are insistent that iOS 11 is a complete disaster and also that Jony Ive hasn’t had a good contribution to Apple since Jobs died. So if you believe any ounce of this story, you would have to concede that those two things cannot truly co-exist.
What do you guys think of the design of the newest Macbook Pro?
You know, I can’t even complain about the number of ports anymore. The design is the culmination of a journey that began in January 2001 with the first titanium PowerBook G4. It’s as little computer as there can be while still providing a proper interaction experience for the content it displays. People can always complain–often rightly–about the crippling of the power with the design as is (and certainly rightly complain about soldering on all the components), but the design is quintessentially “laptop”, with no frills or adornments.
But why’d they get rid of the Kensington port? That happened years ago.
Bad news for software. He should not have influence over software.
So you think iOS 11 was a success without him?
Not that you're necessarily saying this, but how do we know he had absolutely nothing to do with iOS 11? Just because he isn't sitting in his design studio in Cupertino, doesn't mean he can't have an influence on design at Apple.
Of course but if you’re going to ignore the headline and meat of this story, why are you even commenting?
I’m really just trolling here because so many people are insistent that iOS 11 is a complete disaster and also that Jony Ive hasn’t had a good contribution to Apple since Jobs died. So if you believe any ounce of this story, you would have to concede that those two things cannot truly co-exist.
I don't think you read my post...or at least you didn't read it the why it was meant to be read. I never said you were trolling. I was just going off what you said to make my point. because your point rolled off the point I was trying to make. I certainly think you have a valid point to be honest.
What do you guys think of the design of the newest Macbook Pro?
I don't think it really matters...its selling better than any notebook Apple has ever created. Stop trying to create another pointless argument. It doesn't really matter what Apple does...people will always find something to bitch about no matter what and drag it on for weeks on end.
Bad news for software. He should not have influence over software.
I think I remember that he was in charge of the UI design not the actual software functionality. Personally, I am not a big fan of tiny, thin gray fonts on a slightly different shade of gray background. Too hard to read, especially outdoors in sunlight. It might be pleasing to his design sensibilities but it is not very practical in my opinion.
Why are you still complaining about tiny fonts? Did you not see what they did with Weather app, Calendar and other iOS apps? It is like, they developed it for partially blind which apparently includes you), and made it absolutely non-elegant, while not improving readability at all ). Making something Bold does not make it more readable. In fact it does the opposite. Now, it looks much worse than even Android UI text elements (which were never an standard for good and elegant design). Not only Apple increased font sizes by a good 1.3-1.4 factor, but on top of that, they made it Bold. And you are still complaining about fonts being small and tiny? Are you being f-g serious? Go to the Settings, change font size so it suits you and make it BOLD already, instead of supporting FONT positive movement here! The latest release of iOS UI-wise is a disgrace in terms of what they did with fonts. Over-sized, over-bold numbers that pop out everywhere they were not previously, and yet it is still not enough for you? Learn how to adjust YOUR device and make it the way you like, instead of making yourself comfortable it other people expense.
That's not really a good analogy. Edge-swipes to navigate in various directions is pretty intuitive... ... Circular reasoning. Your presupposition that MS's UX is on par with Apple's is your opinion, and pretty sure you'd find strong disagreement with that here. I don't spend a lot of time in Windows (via Parallels VMs mostly) but I have always found it infuriating for a multitude of reasons.
And your argument that somehow the UX hasn't maintained its superiority since the 90's, and thus productivity hasn't either... I don't even know what to say. I'm like jumping between 6 Screens and passing windows between them via Mission Control and sliding through browser windows all with a multitouch trackpad on a 7 year old MacBook Pro running the latest macOS and amazed every day at how different this is from mucking around in System 7 back in the day.
Yes, edge-swipes are intuitive after you're aware of them and used to them. Until then, they aren't. But, there's also a difference between edge-swipes for overall OS operations, and edge-swipes within apps.
And, I didn't say MS and Apple UIs are on-par, but that they are closer than they used to be. And, I said the 90s were kind of the peak of the productivity difference between the platforms, and probably somewhat held through the mid-2000s. Windows has been closing the gap, and then IMO, Apple has been degrading (especially if 3rd party apps are considered, which used to be much more consistent). So, the productivity difference between platforms - due to UI - isn't that big any longer.
nht said: That’s bullshit. I just went through many of the Apple apps and important touch elements are always a highlighted color whether they are text or icons. Certain ones, like tabs, highlight the active element/page but it is obvious the others can be tapped.
Done or Exit is never gray text on white backgrounds in Mail, Safari, Calendar, Maps, Photos, etc.
I'll start paying more attention again, as I don't use that many Apple apps anymore, but it used to be that way. I see they've colored them in some places I just checked... but they've colored them all (ie: all the words are red in Calendar, for example). Or, all the icons are grey except for the selected one (which is an improvement). However, a lot of apps followed Apple's lead, so we (user base) are still fighting with some devs to at least bring back the option for colored tool-bars and such.
Soooo glad to hear this. The hardware designs have taken s step back in some ways.
And Ive Revolutionized iOS with a perfect minimalist UI THAT WAS THOROUGH.
THE current iteration can use a thorough going over. Keep it minimal and consistent.
I was thinking when Ive got involved was when it went downhill.
How so?
iOS has improved leaps and bounds since iOS 6.
Jony started with iOS 7 - which totally redesigned the UI and UX - for the better.
It also brought Apple to the forefront of UI again. Prior, forstall had been stuck in a skeuomorphic past with a paper shredder animation for deleting files being his major contribution to iOS.
IT was also under Forstall that Maps launched poorly (and Maps should have been a huge win at that time).
Ive was great at what he did (which wasn't writing code - so not sure how he could make software go "downhill") and the UI and UX have vastly improved.
It was when he sort of obersaw everything that the understudy guys had a chance to prove themselves. And they did OK. But there's only one Ive.
The new guys guys will get it sooner or later (looking at you, Watch team).
Bot iOS and macOS look and function much better than better than before jony got involved.
software guys who code under the hood usually aren't the best at presentation. That's where IVE comes in. And he rocks the house with presentation.
Looking foreard to seeing the fruit of his labors again.
Soooo glad to hear this. The hardware designs have taken s step back in some ways.
And Ive Revolutionized iOS with a perfect minimalist UI THAT WAS THOROUGH.
THE current iteration can use a thorough going over. Keep it minimal and consistent.
I was thinking when Ive got involved was when it went downhill.
Yeah everyone loved that felt and fake wood interface...
Why does every god damn article turn into this constant negativity and results into this I know how to run Apple better than Apple?
because it is a discussion forum? By not having debates, by arguing that we cant criticise Apple because we couldnt run it, all debate is curtailed. Tim Cook could get out of the hardware and software game and turn Apple into a fast food competitor to MacDonalds and we couldnt say anything because we dont run Apple.
This argument, however, only applies to Apple. We can criticise other CEOs
nht said: That’s bullshit. I just went through many of the Apple apps and important touch elements are always a highlighted color whether they are text or icons. Certain ones, like tabs, highlight the active element/page but it is obvious the others can be tapped.
Done or Exit is never gray text on white backgrounds in Mail, Safari, Calendar, Maps, Photos, etc.
I'll start paying more attention again, as I don't use that many Apple apps anymore, but it used to be that way. I see they've colored them in some places I just checked... but they've colored them all (ie: all the words are red in Calendar, for example). Or, all the icons are grey except for the selected one (which is an improvement). However, a lot of apps followed Apple's lead, so we (user base) are still fighting with some devs to at least bring back the option for colored tool-bars and such.
No, they didn’t “colored them all”. The only words that are red are the clickable ones.
The iOS HIG has stated that color should be used to identify touchable elements.
It has been this way since ios7 so it has NEVER been the way you describe. It’s absolute total bullshit. The screen shots of the calendar app have red text for touchable elements JUST LIKE TODAY.
You have never “paid attention” so there is no “again” and there isn’t any reason to accept your criticisms on apple’s UI as valid. None of them are based on reality and provably false just by looking st iOS7 screenshots.
Any app that did what you describe should have failed the app approval process for not adhering to the HIG. Could any have slipped through? Maybe, but the dev wasn’t “following Apple’s lead” so there wouldn’t have been “lots”.
So find one fucking app designed as you state that you are “still” fighting with and post a fucking screen shot. Should be easy for someone who has claims to have “paid attention for 30+ years”.
Are people getting used to it? Yes, but that's besides the point. People can get used to a really horrible UI. Apple's principal on UI, though, was always that it should be as usable as possible to a brand new user, while still being powerful for the advanced user. They've been breaking that in tons of ways, from visual to operation to inconsistency.
What is missed here imo is that the alternatives to Apple's UI is what is commercially available. - With iOS iPhones/iPads, it's still true that they can be picked up, and a new user can quickly know where they are and use the device. The iOS grid is simple/consistent. The most important icons have a standard shape and design. - This UI philosophy of consistency goes back to the Lisa and the early Mac. It is a desirable feature as IS staff I worked with wanted standard/limited home page customization on Windows 7 on work PCs. * In debates the common criticism of the iOS UI is that it is boring, too simple, too basic. All those "criticisms" are a strength of iOS.
* The competition to iOS; - Windows 8/10, the phone and finger touch tablet mode; The UI approach with finger touch is customization of tile size/color location. The UI shape in finger touch Windows looks like Legos spread across the screen. This riot of color/size/location/design in finger touch Windows applies to the key concept of consistency. A stranger can pick up a touch Windows device and not know where they are.
* Android, Samsung and Pixel; - Samsung Galaxy; Samsung adds several apps which do the same task. So, the app draw is flooded with apps. - Carriers can add their own set of apps on top of the ones put in by the OEM. - Pixel; is more "Apple like". Yet, by its very nature Android allows each phone's home page to look completely different. - Stock Android and OEM Android can have different shapes / colors with the icon for the same task. Of course someone familiar with Android would know to get to the app drawer but in my experience, Android phones don't have the almost immediate recognition/understanding by a stranger compared with iPhones.
* While someone can compare the iOS UI with an imagined perfect UI, to me the choice depends on what's commercially available. iOS remains the most intuitive UI compared with the finger touch OS competition.
There is an advantage MS have in Windows 10, and it's that allows you to switch from a touch optimized UI to a desktop UI. That means that Windows 10 gives a better experience as a desktop than iOS. An iPad with keyboard forces you to use a touch UI and apps, and it's not the best experience. It's very similar as using a touchscreen notebook with desktop apps, which at one time Steve Jobs criticized.
As others have stated here in the past, and as well on many other sites, iPad/iPhone/AppleTV would benefit from an accessory keyboard with an integrated touchpad; Apple is surely aware of this, and would be able to add the necessary minor update to UI and API"s to make it work.
Why haven't they? Likely it doesn't fit, yet anyway, with Apple's marketing plans. I'd expect an iOS analog to the Mac Book before I would expect to see that keyboard.
Soooo glad to hear this. The hardware designs have taken s step back in some ways.
And Ive Revolutionized iOS with a perfect minimalist UI THAT WAS THOROUGH.
THE current iteration can use a thorough going over. Keep it minimal and consistent.
I was thinking when Ive got involved was when it went downhill.
Yeah everyone loved that felt and fake wood interface...
Why does every god damn article turn into this constant negativity and results into this I know how to run Apple better than Apple?
because it is a discussion forum? By not having debates, by arguing that we cant criticise Apple because we couldnt run it, all debate is curtailed. Tim Cook could get out of the hardware and software game and turn Apple into a fast food competitor to MacDonalds and we couldnt say anything because we dont run Apple.
This argument, however, only applies to Apple. We can criticise other CEOs
A valid “debate” involves both sides “debating” in good faith and not making random shit up and presenting them as “truth” as the basis of their “criticism”.
The sort of “debate” we’re having on Apple’s UX Design isn’t worth having but yes, this is an internet discussion forum so given that all the “debaters” can fog a mirror the minimum criteria is met.
I’ll point out that my opinion must be entirely correct as I have 50+ years of experience in fogging a mirror...
Comments
If you're referring to me, I'm not pretending to be a UX expert. That said, I've paid a good bit of attention to it now for 30+ years.
And, no, a lot of UX elements that used to be menus or buttons and are now just grey text on white background often don't give any indication. Users just get to know that were is says, say 'Done' or 'Exit' is actually something that can be touched to take action.
It gets worse in a lot of apps where it's just some symbol... and you just have to guess or try it to see what it does. And, as I mentioned earlier, colored icons are significantly better than B&W icons (proven with studies). This isn't just subjective speculation.
I agree that there have always been rough UI aspects here or there, or transitions which caused struggles (example, when Apple implemented right-click). But, it wasn't en masse like it has been since around iOS 7. And, once Apple threw UI out the window, most of the developers of the apps did the same, with even worse consistency, as they re-did the apps to match Apple's lead.
The problem with this idea that just because it's different or we don't like it, that it isn't bad.... is that a lot of Apple's claimed productivity superiority back in the 90s was based off the UI and impact on app UI. The criticism of Windows was based on how inconsistent the UI was, and a similar argument about how people just learn to deal with it.
So, now that Apple's UI isn't that much superior to Windows UI, that's another area that puts the two platforms closer together. There are other reasons to still prefer the Apple platform, but productivity due to UI isn't so much one of them any longer. Can I deal with that? I suppose. But, it is a bit disheartening to hear Apple fans saying it doesn't matter.
Where I think Apple really made a mistake, though, is that instead of making a proper price-range of products, they got into this habit of continuing to make old models and sell them at reduced prices. As I said earlier, there were times when they were selling NEW products that were obsolete out of the box in terms of functionality and experience with the current OS.
That's not really a good analogy. Edge-swipes to navigate in various directions is pretty intuitive, and negates the need for navigation buttons (or in the case of swiping up from the bottom, the need for a physical home button on the iPhone X). The arrows/labels can go away in a scenario where you a) are aware of context — where you are in the app, and what came before it, and b) knowing that a right swipe from the left edge is going to take you there. Not in ALL cases, but like do you need a back button in Safari when you know swiping right takes you to the previous page? No, and they're smart about how they hide those controls when they're least likely to be needed. The goals seem to be, and should be: Get the buttons out of the way when you can, and get rid of them altogether when you can.
Circular reasoning. Your presupposition that MS's UX is on par with Apple's is your opinion, and pretty sure you'd find strong disagreement with that here. I don't spend a lot of time in Windows (via Parallels VMs mostly) but I have always found it infuriating for a multitude of reasons. And your argument that somehow the UX hasn't maintained its superiority since the 90's, and thus productivity hasn't either... I don't even know what to say. I'm like jumping between 6 Screens and passing windows between them via Mission Control and sliding through browser windows all with a multitouch trackpad on a 7 year old MacBook Pro running the latest macOS and amazed every day at how different this is from mucking around in System 7 back in the day.
Done or Exit is never gray text on white backgrounds in Mail, Safari, Calendar, Maps, Photos, etc.
There is an advantage MS have in Windows 10, and it's that allows you to switch from a touch optimized UI to a desktop UI. That means that Windows 10 gives a better experience as a desktop than iOS. An iPad with keyboard forces you to use a touch UI and apps, and it's not the best experience. It's very similar as using a touchscreen notebook with desktop apps, which at one time Steve Jobs criticized.
http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-jobs-touch-screen-mac-2010-10
I’m really just trolling here because so many people are insistent that iOS 11 is a complete disaster and also that Jony Ive hasn’t had a good contribution to Apple since Jobs died. So if you believe any ounce of this story, you would have to concede that those two things cannot truly co-exist.
But why’d they get rid of the Kensington port? That happened years ago.
I don't think it really matters...its selling better than any notebook Apple has ever created. Stop trying to create another pointless argument. It doesn't really matter what Apple does...people will always find something to bitch about no matter what and drag it on for weeks on end.
Not only Apple increased font sizes by a good 1.3-1.4 factor, but on top of that, they made it Bold. And you are still complaining about fonts being small and tiny?
Are you being f-g serious?
Go to the Settings, change font size so it suits you and make it BOLD already, instead of supporting FONT positive movement here! The latest release of iOS UI-wise is a disgrace in terms of what they did with fonts. Over-sized, over-bold numbers that pop out everywhere they were not previously, and yet it is still not enough for you? Learn how to adjust YOUR device and make it the way you like, instead of making yourself comfortable it other people expense.
And, I didn't say MS and Apple UIs are on-par, but that they are closer than they used to be. And, I said the 90s were kind of the peak of the productivity difference between the platforms, and probably somewhat held through the mid-2000s. Windows has been closing the gap, and then IMO, Apple has been degrading (especially if 3rd party apps are considered, which used to be much more consistent). So, the productivity difference between platforms - due to UI - isn't that big any longer.
I'll start paying more attention again, as I don't use that many Apple apps anymore, but it used to be that way. I see they've colored them in some places I just checked... but they've colored them all (ie: all the words are red in Calendar, for example). Or, all the icons are grey except for the selected one (which is an improvement). However, a lot of apps followed Apple's lead, so we (user base) are still fighting with some devs to at least bring back the option for colored tool-bars and such.
How so?
iOS has improved leaps and bounds since iOS 6.
Jony started with iOS 7 - which totally redesigned the UI and UX - for the better.
It also brought Apple to the forefront of UI again. Prior, forstall had been stuck in a skeuomorphic past with a paper shredder animation for deleting files being his major contribution to iOS.
IT was also under Forstall that Maps launched poorly (and Maps should have been a huge win at that time).
Ive was great at what he did (which wasn't writing code - so not sure how he could make software go "downhill") and the UI and UX have vastly improved.
It was when he sort of obersaw everything that the understudy guys had a chance to prove themselves. And they did OK. But there's only one Ive.
The new guys guys will get it sooner or later (looking at you, Watch team).
Bot iOS and macOS look and function much better than better than before jony got involved.
software guys who code under the hood usually aren't the best at presentation. That's where IVE comes in. And he rocks the house with presentation.
Looking foreard to seeing the fruit of his labors again.
This argument, however, only applies to Apple. We can criticise other CEOs
The iOS HIG has stated that color should be used to identify touchable elements.
https://developer.apple.com/ios/human-interface-guidelines/visual-design/color/
It has been this way since ios7 so it has NEVER been the way you describe. It’s absolute total bullshit. The screen shots of the calendar app have red text for touchable elements JUST LIKE TODAY.
https://www.slideshare.net/mobile/evgenybelyaev16/mobile-hig-22784587
And darken colors has been part of iOS since 7.1 if you have issues with contrast.
http://osxdaily.com/2014/03/17/darken-colors-ios/
You have never “paid attention” so there is no “again” and there isn’t any reason to accept your criticisms on apple’s UI as valid. None of them are based on reality and provably false just by looking st iOS7 screenshots.
Any app that did what you describe should have failed the app approval process for not adhering to the HIG. Could any have slipped through? Maybe, but the dev wasn’t “following Apple’s lead” so there wouldn’t have been “lots”.
So find one fucking app designed as you state that you are “still” fighting with and post a fucking screen shot. Should be easy for someone who has claims to have “paid attention for 30+ years”.
A lot of apps my ass.
Why haven't they? Likely it doesn't fit, yet anyway, with Apple's marketing plans. I'd expect an iOS analog to the Mac Book before I would expect to see that keyboard.
The sort of “debate” we’re having on Apple’s UX Design isn’t worth having but yes, this is an internet discussion forum so given that all the “debaters” can fog a mirror the minimum criteria is met.
I’ll point out that my opinion must be entirely correct as I have 50+ years of experience in fogging a mirror...