Apple's $4,999 all-in-one iMac Pro launches Thursday, Dec. 14

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  • Reply 41 of 150
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,428member

    Rayz2016 said:

    Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM. 
    Am I the only person who buys machines fully loaded?


    I've only ever bough Macs that can be self upgraded so far and as tech changes a fully loaded at start could be a mistake in the long run (well not so long given the pace of change).  So I usually go for the mid range area and upgrade.  Just doubled RAM and SSD in a 2013 6 Core Mac Pro and blown away by the speed of the new MCE Tech SSD,  150% faster than the Apple supplied one.
  • Reply 42 of 150
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,428member

    quinney said:
    Rayz2016 said:

    Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM. 
    Am I the only person who buys machines fully loaded?


    I think a friend of mine was fully loaded when he bought his Dell.
    ROFL
    macxpress
  • Reply 43 of 150
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,428member
    lkrupp said:
    For me personally it would be like buying a fully loaded Ford Shelby GT just to go to the grocery store. Not that I wouldn’t like that but for home use it would be a bit overkill. I’m hoping this machine finds a home with professionals, not the faux professionals who blather on here about ports and towers and such but real professionals who would put the machine to good use.
    Why do you care who buys them and what for?  Dentists have to have hobbies you know ;)
  • Reply 44 of 150
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,190member
    Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM. 
    I don't know what you do, but I'm a software dev in household brand fortune 100 & 500 companies. I have never, ever seen any of our IT department perform component upgrades on our workstations. Never. Machines are retired and swapped out only. Corporate workstations are not DIY tinkerer toys.
    This is exactly my point. I would think anyone in the Pro field doesn't want to fuck around on the inside of the computer. The only time we hear people bitching about this are these old farts (sorry if I offend anyone) who think computers of today are the same as the computers of the 90's where they went out of date fairly quickly, and had long lives from expansion. Screwing around on the inside of computer is time lost on them. They'd much rather just use the damn thing until it doesn't suit their needs anymore and then go get something different. I can't see why something like this wouldn't last someone a minimum of 4-5yrs if you built it up properly. 
    StrangeDaysd_2dewmechiabrucemcsennen
  • Reply 45 of 150
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,190member

    lkrupp said:
    Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM. 
    Since it's probably expensive ECC ram, some users would try to throw in some cheap ram and complain to Apple when it has issues or doesn't work. Then they'll try to get a new iMac Pro with their warranty. 
    Doubtful as I suspect anyone buying this machine knows a thing or two about computers.
    And you would be wrong. As @vadimyuryev implies there are millions of users who claim to be professionals but who are, in fact, clueless. 
    Well they take pictures on the side...so they consider themselves...."Professionals" and are automatically experts in the field so whatever they say is the gold standard of what everyone else wants. 
  • Reply 46 of 150
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,190member

    Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM. 
    Since it's probably expensive ECC ram, some users would try to throw in some cheap ram and complain to Apple when it has issues or doesn't work. Then they'll try to get a new iMac Pro with their warranty. 
    Doubtful as I suspect anyone buying this machine knows a thing or two about computers.
    That doesn't mean that they'll try and cheap out getting Kingston Value RAM or something. Just because you can make good use of a computer, doesn't mean you know about computers. More often than not from my experience a software engineer doesn't know their ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to anything about the computer itself. Sure, they can make programs for it but anything IT related they don't have a clue. They may think they do, but in reality, they don't know shit. A scientist may know how to make the computer to amazing things, but that doesn't mean they know anything about the computer itself. This is why companies have IT departments. If the scientists, programmers, etc knew all about the computer and how to fix it, companies wouldn't need IT departments. 

    Soli said:
    Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM. 
    How would they give you access to RAM in this machine? It's not laptop-grade RAM (i.e.: small), it's not centered in chassis (i.e.: easier to make hatch that is hidden from view and without affecting the structural integrity of the casing), and it's split over two areas on the logic board. They'd need two separate bay doors which adds additional complexity and cost to an already expensive machine for the rare need to change the RAM with ease. It's simply not going to be top of Apple's priorities. If an AIO doesn't interest you then hold out for the new Mac Pro or go with a completely different vendor.
    The way the new cooling system was designed for this makes it harder to have expandable RAM. The core heatsink runs right down the center which is where the regular 27" iMac has the expansion slots. Apple isn't going to design an iMac that has 15,000 access panels on the rear just to have expandability like you said. I'm sure its not as simple as just cut an access door on the back panel. 

    If you can't wait for the new Mac Pro, whenever it happens to arrive....I'd just get the iMac Pro, use it and when Apple releases the Mac Pro see if it better suits your needs. If so, then sell the iMac Pro for 85-90% of what you paid for it, probably more and then get the Mac Pro with a display of your choice. If the iMac Pro suits your needs fine, then you already have the computer you need and you can keep working as is. I don't see a loss here for anyone. 
    edited December 2017 StrangeDayspatchythepiratechiaroundaboutnow
  • Reply 47 of 150
    macxpress said:
    brucemc said:
    Thank god!  Hopefully this means less complaining from the hard core Mac side of the house, and stalls any further "Apple can't deliver" talk on the forums.
    You and me both. That said, there are already posts here, in this thread that heavily lean in that direction.
    I’m not a pro user. Just curious the reason for completely sealing the machine. Apple wants to force pro users to pay their upgrade pricing? If it’s an engineering reason then does that signal bad design descisions? As we saw with the trash can Mac Pro Apple sometimes gets it wrong. Why do you think Apple made this decision?
    I believe Apple knows what its doing here. They see a market and they go after it. I'm not a pro either, but I'm gonna assume a lot are going to not just buy the $4999 model, but rather spec it out as much as they can afford as from what I see, is what a typical Professional user will do. As I've said in the past, I think most Professionals don't care if they can get inside it. They just want to do work and not screw around with messing with the insides, being their own IT support, etc. They buy as much as they can afford, and use it until its no longer useful for their work and then they sell it for a high price (value of owning a Mac), and go get something newer. 

    The RAM slots are full sized RAM slots so if you take that along with the completely redesigned cooling system the RAM is not accessible from the same spot as the regular 27" iMac. it doesn't use SODIMMs like the regular iMac does. I think Apple would rather have a Mac that suits their needs rather than sit there and try and make it designed so the back cover(s) come off, etc, etc. This is what the Mac Pro is for. 
    I get it but not for a pro level machine like this. Seems to me it’s a niche machine maybe not as bad as the trash can Mac Pro. I suppose Apple is counting on pros to buy this anyway since who knows when the Mac Pro will be released. Could be 2019.
  • Reply 48 of 150
    macxpress said:
    Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM. 
    I don't know what you do, but I'm a software dev in household brand fortune 100 & 500 companies. I have never, ever seen any of our IT department perform component upgrades on our workstations. Never. Machines are retired and swapped out only. Corporate workstations are not DIY tinkerer toys.
    This is exactly my point. I would think anyone in the Pro field doesn't want to fuck around on the inside of the computer. The only time we hear people bitching about this are these old farts (sorry if I offend anyone) who think computers of today are the same as the computers of the 90's where they went out of date fairly quickly, and had long lives from expansion. Screwing around on the inside of computer is time lost on them. They'd much rather just use the damn thing until it doesn't suit their needs anymore and then go get something different. I can't see why something like this wouldn't last someone a minimum of 4-5yrs if you built it up properly. 
    For sure. In my big corporate gigs they upgrade everyone every 3-4 years, but those are usually Dell laptops and generally suck. At home, my personal dev desktop is a 2011 iMac -- 7 years (speedy due to loaded SSD, RAM, VRAM). I imagine an iMac Pro would last me even longer.
  • Reply 49 of 150
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,190member
    macxpress said:
    brucemc said:
    Thank god!  Hopefully this means less complaining from the hard core Mac side of the house, and stalls any further "Apple can't deliver" talk on the forums.
    You and me both. That said, there are already posts here, in this thread that heavily lean in that direction.
    I’m not a pro user. Just curious the reason for completely sealing the machine. Apple wants to force pro users to pay their upgrade pricing? If it’s an engineering reason then does that signal bad design descisions? As we saw with the trash can Mac Pro Apple sometimes gets it wrong. Why do you think Apple made this decision?
    I believe Apple knows what its doing here. They see a market and they go after it. I'm not a pro either, but I'm gonna assume a lot are going to not just buy the $4999 model, but rather spec it out as much as they can afford as from what I see, is what a typical Professional user will do. As I've said in the past, I think most Professionals don't care if they can get inside it. They just want to do work and not screw around with messing with the insides, being their own IT support, etc. They buy as much as they can afford, and use it until its no longer useful for their work and then they sell it for a high price (value of owning a Mac), and go get something newer. 

    The RAM slots are full sized RAM slots so if you take that along with the completely redesigned cooling system the RAM is not accessible from the same spot as the regular 27" iMac. it doesn't use SODIMMs like the regular iMac does. I think Apple would rather have a Mac that suits their needs rather than sit there and try and make it designed so the back cover(s) come off, etc, etc. This is what the Mac Pro is for. 
    I get it but not for a pro level machine like this. Seems to me it’s a niche machine maybe not as bad as the trash can Mac Pro. I suppose Apple is counting on pros to buy this anyway since who knows when the Mac Pro will be released. Could be 2019.
    Why do you assume Pros want to upgrade the RAM, or anything inside it in the major industry? Why are you so stuck on this topic? People are telling you this is a non issue and you're not listening! Were not talking about the person who takes photographs on the side and has a small business here. Were talking major studios, science labs, etc. They don't upgrade anything inside the computer. They replace! 

    I work in IT...we don't upgrade computers (Macs or PCs)...we buy what we can afford. We use them as long as they're useful (4-6yrs). When they become not useful anymore, we dispose of them properly and get new computers (Macs or PCs) to replace them if necessary. This notion that everything needs to be upgradable is complete nonsense!
    edited December 2017 StrangeDaysmacpluspluschiacharlesgressennenfastasleepargonaut
  • Reply 50 of 150
    matrix077 said:
    What's the purpose? Just mac Mac Pro with processing power like this. No Apple displays is even near to EIZO or NEC professional graphic design monitors. That is top shelf above average pocket. We need processing unit with solid system - nothing else. That is not prosumer or regular consumer.
    Think it’s for coders (scientific & architecture too. Basically any groups that want to crunch number). Too many of them at Apple, Google, Facebook etc. what you said about monitor is irrelevant to this group. 
    I've seen Youtube's creator studios out in California.  All of their editing labs have 2013 Mac Pros.  This (and the future Mac Pro) is an obvious upgrade for then.
    patchythepiratechiaargonaut
  • Reply 51 of 150
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    quinney said:
    Rayz2016 said:

    Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM. 
    Am I the only person who buys machines fully loaded?


    I think a friend of mine was fully loaded when he bought his Dell.
    👍🏾🤣👍🏾
  • Reply 52 of 150
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,946member
    Still blows my mind that this is a pro machine but you can’t get inside of it. I can understand most of Apple’s portable products being sealed but professional workstations? Why? Even the 27” iMac allows upgrades to the RAM. 
    I don't know what you do, but I'm a software dev in household brand fortune 100 & 500 companies. I have never, ever seen any of our IT department perform component upgrades on our workstations. Never. Machines are retired and swapped out only. Corporate workstations are not DIY tinkerer toys.
    Yep. Many large companies have also outsourced or subcontracted their IT support to organizations that are somewhat detached from the business and tactical execution priorities of the company itself. This can result in bulk purchases of workstations prioritized on minimizing acquisition and/or leasing costs. The resulting machines are not tinker toys but they are often not well suited for at least some of the company employees who must use them. This is a problem and sometimes companies will have an "exception" acquisition path to allow individual who need specific configurations to obtain exactly what they need.

    The iMac Pro should be able to fit into these acquisition patterns with standard and build-to-order options, but the main inhibitor will still be the overall cost. Getting the corporate bean counters to open up the wallet for the iMac Pro versus a standard iMac is going to require some arm twisting especially since the TCO on a brand new product is hard to estimate. Even as a software developer or manager I would always look at lower cost options and the best bang for the buck. It always depends on the actual work you're doing, and your mileage may vary, but the biggest improvement and bang for the buck that I've seen in the past few years for software dev machines was a result of moving strictly to SSD storage and away from spinning hard drives, both on desktop and mobile computers, and having multiple monitors on every workstation. Before buying an iMac Pro I would also consider what a full-SSD iMac with a second 4K monitor costs.

    Finally, I hesitate to put too much emphasis on looking at the iMac Pro through the lens of how it fits into software development organizations because I don't believe that SW dev is really the target for this machine. In fact Apple is currently rather weak across the board for supporting the full spectrum of modern SW dev operations like DevOps, Ci/CD, Agile, SAFe, cloud computing, etc. It's just not Apple's focus at this time. They are going after the high intensity creatives who need massive computing power sitting right there in front of them on their desk.



     
  • Reply 53 of 150
    sevenfeet said:
    matrix077 said:
    What's the purpose? Just mac Mac Pro with processing power like this. No Apple displays is even near to EIZO or NEC professional graphic design monitors. That is top shelf above average pocket. We need processing unit with solid system - nothing else. That is not prosumer or regular consumer.
    Think it’s for coders (scientific & architecture too. Basically any groups that want to crunch number). Too many of them at Apple, Google, Facebook etc. what you said about monitor is irrelevant to this group. 
    I've seen Youtube's creator studios out in California.  All of their editing labs have 2013 Mac Pros.  This (and the future Mac Pro) is an obvious upgrade for then.
    Yeah.. I’m in video field too and come to think about it the one who care about monitor could be a minority. We do color correction in post house & don’t give an F about it when we do editing for example. 
  • Reply 54 of 150
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,602member
    brucemc said:
    Thank god!  Hopefully this means less complaining from the hard core Mac side of the house, and stalls any further "Apple can't deliver" talk on the forums.
    You and me both. That said, there are already posts here, in this thread that heavily lean in that direction.
    I’m not a pro user. Just curious the reason for completely sealing the machine. Apple wants to force pro users to pay their upgrade pricing? If it’s an engineering reason then does that signal bad design descisions? As we saw with the trash can Mac Pro Apple sometimes gets it wrong. Why do you think Apple made this decision?
    Because they've gotten away with it on the MacBook Pros and other machines.   My late 2008 MBP was great - you could easily change battery, memory and drive and I did so several times.  I can't upgrade anything on my late 2016 MBP and it's already a problem in regards to storage.  I bought it with a 1TB drive and that was expensive enough, but I really needed 2TB.   I know I can buy an external drive, but the idea of a laptop is to have everything in the machine in one place.    Part of this is so Apple can have more density to the components inside the machine and to have the battery spread throughout.   But I have to believe part of it is quite cynical - getting consumers to buy a new machine because they can't easily upgrade the old one.   Quite hypocritical for a company that markets itself as being environmentally astute.  I think it's quite insane that I have to deliver the machine to Apple for a few days just to have the battery replaced at some point.   And the SSD couldn't have been on a socket or plug?   Ridiculous.  As I've said a few times before, this just might be my last Mac.  It's become unaffordable for average people and its non-serviceability is a problem for me.   Mostly probably because of Ive's obsession with thinness and having no seams in the case.   

    I'm glad Apple never went ahead with full production on an Apple car.   You'd probably have to bring it back to them to change a light bulb.  
  • Reply 55 of 150
    Finally they will start making their own displays! Not happy with any options on the market currently. If they can drop a 27" 5K TB3 monitor for <=$1000 this would be awesome.
  • Reply 56 of 150
    Another Glued Shut throwaway iToi from Tim Cook's Apple.

    No thank you.
    A Xeon CPU and GPU bump with space gray case does not equal $5k.
    VRing
  • Reply 57 of 150
    lkrupp said:
    For me personally it would be like buying a fully loaded Ford Shelby GT just to go to the grocery store. Not that I wouldn’t like that but for home use it would be a bit overkill. I’m hoping this machine finds a home with professionals, not the faux professionals who blather on here about ports and towers and such but real professionals who would put the machine to good use.
    Professionals will not use Apple display - it is below quality and precision required by professional publishing and design. We run design shop.
    You get the largest color gamut. 

    You calibrated your “professional” display then what? Were you able to reproduce the same colors on print? Did Quark Xpress use your “expert calibration”? Those are old urban legends. We’re not in the late 90s. That iMac display is overkill for a “design shop”. 
    edited December 2017 tenthousandthingschiacorradokidsennenfastasleeproundaboutnow
  • Reply 58 of 150
    Another Glued Shut throwaway iToi from Tim Cook's Apple.

    No thank you.
    A Xeon CPU and GPU bump with space gray case does not equal $5k.
    Umm.. yes, someone compare parts for home built PC and it end up at $5,000 too. And it doesn’t even has space grey. 
    edited December 2017 StrangeDaysroundaboutnow
  • Reply 59 of 150
    This appears to be a machine destined to make no one truly happy. "Pro" covers a very diverse set of users. Some require super high-end monitors - but not a lot of CPU or RAM; others need all the RAM & CPU power they can get, but don't care about the monitor. This machine seems "good-enough" for a wide variety of users, but not optimized for any specific user. As has been mentioned, purchasing departments from large organizations will probably be satisfied - it has "Pro" stamped on it, and offers some configurability, but not too much. But I don't see many people who prefer to spec out a machine optimized for their specific use case to be happy - especially, smaller pros & semi-pros who are cost conscious.
    rogifan_new
  • Reply 60 of 150

    brucemc said:
    Thank god!  Hopefully this means less complaining from the hard core Mac side of the house, and stalls any further "Apple can't deliver" talk on the forums.
    You and me both. That said, there are already posts here, in this thread that heavily lean in that direction.
    I’m not a pro user. Just curious the reason for completely sealing the machine. Apple wants to force pro users to pay their upgrade pricing? If it’s an engineering reason then does that signal bad design descisions? As we saw with the trash can Mac Pro Apple sometimes gets it wrong. Why do you think Apple made this decision?
    The trash can Mac Pro is still ahead of its time. Simply the industry couldn’t catch up with highly parallel processing on dual GPU. I don’t think Apple will abandon the “thermal core” design. They may just attach an empty box with some empty slots to come up with something like a keyhole shape extending the cylindrical shape.
    tenthousandthings
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