Apple hit with lawsuit after admitting to slowing down iPhones with depleted batteries

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  • Reply 81 of 126
    JWSC said:
    I’m not one inclined to support conspiracy theories.  And I generally give Apple the benefit of the doubt.  But this trend graph is definitely saying something.  If the raw data is real it’s hard to ignore.

    https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=2006-12-31%202017-12-21&q=iphone%20slow,android%20slow
    That tracking is corrupted by the graph including searches for "slow motion." In the case of the iPhone, it was the most common search. Second most for Android.

    For the results to tell us anything useful those results would have to be filtered out. Scientific method, controls, etc.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 82 of 126
    All the more reason to get off Li-ion batteries and onto something truly revolutionary next.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 83 of 126

    jume said:

    jume said:
    They should get sued for this. My iPhone 6 is so fucking slow at moments its barely useable. Why there just can't be a switch in settings. It's my decision if I want usable phone or if an app shuts down because of an old battery. This is bad for Apple. 

    Are you sure the slowness is due to this "feature", or could there be other factors, such as bad actors / misbehaving / poor-designed apps?
    Mostly I use top downloaded apps from big vendors like google, fb, apple, ... i doubt these are poorly designed. I started to shutdown all apps regularly because of bad responsiveness, but even this doesn't help sometimes. I am pretty sure phone is slower then it used to be.
    The only app I had open on my old iPhone was Safari with only one sheet and it still couldn't keep up with my slow typing in the search box.
    Yup. It works so hard at trying to GUESS what I'm trying to enter that it interferes with typing what I actual want. I had to turn off predictive text in Messages because of that. Now that you've reminded me, I should check if there's a way to tell Safari "DON"T TRY TO HELP!"
  • Reply 84 of 126
    SoliSoli Posts: 6,202member
    Soli said:
    [...] You can say you want the "original" clock rate in which you first bought it, but then you really shouldn't do updates as even new features can affect how fast it feels
    What you say is true, but we both know that avoiding updates runs completely counter to the messaging from both Apple and outside experts. Have you called Apple support recently? The first question they ask is whether the software is up-to-date.

    Software updates do more than just add features. They fix bugs and close security holes. Freezing software at a point that's ideal for the hardware may or may not result in a better user experience overall, as bugs in that version may be worse than increased processor load. Unfortunately bug repairs and security fixes are usually not delivered a la carte, but included with new features and functions that may make the device slower. One possible remedy is to make iOS development more similar to macOS, with important updates being made available for older operating systems without new features or hardware load.

    I honestly don't understand how the situation with phones is perceived to be any different than what we've experienced with computers for decades. Everyone knows that development marches on, and new devices gradually become old devices. As devices age their performance degrades, and as software develops its hardware demands increase. Why do we accept this with computers but not phones? This lawsuit is an example of that inconsistent thinking.
    All valid points. I'd even add that we've seen many updates, both major and minor, that have improved performance in many areas. Last year we saw APFS for all current OSes get APFS for NAND-based drives which is a huge boon for performance and security, yet we still saw people complain. I guess my point is if someone is going to bitch about new features having some potential con without any recognition of the pros then those people should do everything in their power to avoid change.
  • Reply 85 of 126
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,180member
    dws-2 said:
    In another universe, someone is suing Apple because their devices suddenly shut down.
    In another universe, someone is suing battery manufacturers because the batteries lose charge over time.

    And in a another universe (far, far, far away), no one is suing anyone about this because they realize that everything is trying to make the best product possible.
    Good point, but there is no universe where no one is suing Apple. 
  • Reply 86 of 126
    Soli said:
    [...] Last year we saw APFS for all current OSes get APFS for NAND-based drives which is a huge boon for performance and security, yet we still saw people complain.
    (Going off-topic here... @"Mike Wuerthele" please delete if you object.)

    I'm seeing conflicting reports about APFS vs. HFS+. The most recent report I read showed that encrypted APFS was slower than HFS+ reading and writing large batches of files, and a LOT slower when it's a bunch of small files. I can't remember now if it was read or write, but one of them fell to only half the speed of HFS+.

    Is this a case of the new system being better at some things but worse at others, or does APFS generally sacrifice speed to gain other benefits?
    Soli
  • Reply 87 of 126
    SoliSoli Posts: 6,202member
    Soli said:
    [...] Last year we saw APFS for all current OSes get APFS for NAND-based drives which is a huge boon for performance and security, yet we still saw people complain.
    (Going off-topic here... @"Mike Wuerthele" please delete if you object.)

    I'm seeing conflicting reports about APFS vs. HFS+. The most recent report I read showed that encrypted APFS was slower than HFS+ reading and writing large batches of files, and a LOT slower when it's a bunch of small files. I can't remember now if it was read or write, but one of them fell to only half the speed of HFS+.

    Is this a case of the new system being better at some things but worse at others, or does APFS generally sacrifice speed to gain other benefits?
    A file copy is effectively instant because of the way the modern file system works, but there was reports that creating files under certain parameters was slower, but it's still very new so I think that's temporary. Overall APFS is a very welcome change over HFS+ which I've been wishing they'd replace for a decade or more.

    Perhaps it's time for someone to do additional testing to see if APFS has improved since it was first launched in High Sierra.
  • Reply 88 of 126
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,180member
    lkrupp said:
    So I read on other news sites that the guy who is suing has an iPhone 8 and his claim is that Apple intentionally cripples older phones in order to force people to upgrade their phones, a claim that has already been debunked by every respectable tech expert, including the founder of Geekbench who originally discovered what was going on. He was featured in an interview this morning on CNBC and was very adamant that the only thing Apple is guilty of is a lack of transparency.
    Well, damned if you, damned if you don’t. 

    If they put a warning in the OS that the battery is degrading then folk would accuse them of trying to gouge customers for battery upgrades. 

    I’m not sure why the outrage: Apple has always run their devices at less than optimum speeds to protect the electronics and make the battery last longer. 

    Should they give users the choice of slowing down the phone or having it crash completely? No, because who is going to pick option two?

    How about a diagnostic tool tool to show if the battery is failing? Possibly not:

    https://support.apple.com/en-gb/iphone/repair/battery-power

    As Apple states, it may look like a worn battery, but the underlying problem may be caused by something else that is reducing the life of the battery.  Send a message to Apple support to arrange a diagnostic test; give them the device serial number and they will test it remotely. My guess is that they’re not just testing the battery. 

    https://www.howtogeek.com/254739/how-to-check-your-iphones-battery-health/

    I had a friend who complained that he had to charge his iPhone more frequently these days. When he plugged his phone in at work, the phone flashed up a warning that he wasn’t using a certified cable. He simply tapped to dismiss it without saying a word.
    I asked him where he got the cable.
    He said he found it on eBay. Only cost him £3 + delivery
    I asked him how much was the phone. 
    He said it was free on contract. 
    I told him the cable was costing him more than £3 + delivery because the phone wasn’t free. 


    https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/fake-charger-cable-battery/

    Off-topic:

    If your Prius battery seems to be worn down then it might not be a problem with the battery:  it might be a problem with the regenerative braking system. That’s why Toyota will check the car before changing the battery (just as well at £800 a pop). 
    edited December 2017 radarthekat
  • Reply 89 of 126
    MacPro said:
    danv2 said:
    Just another person making this world muddy and messy.

    Apple doesn't owe anybody any money.
    It owes a shit load in taxes and is gonna pay up as per the EU lol. Regarding this situation: if they were transparent then they would not be getting fucked on this deal. They should have made it a feature, and left it to the consumer to decide. When you make calls like this on behalf of the customer, then they will come at you with fangs. More importantly, a prompt should pop up "its time to replace your battery for $80" instead of "lemme slow you down bro w/out telling you bro" etc.

    There is a clear cut difference here, and they made a mistake on assuming what each person would want.
    My suggestion is a message that says "Your battery is getting to near to its end, so ... do you want to keep going as you are and risk the phone dying on you or allow iOS to slow down some processes to make it last a little longer, totally up to you bro."
    Yes that would make sense, but what happened to the 1,000 cycles claim on their batteries? I do remember Apple boasting it a few years back.

    1,000 cycles is a little over 3 years if you drain your battery every single day. 
    Apple claims 500 cycles on an iPhone, which by your math puts it at 1.5 years. It’s a mac battery they claim 1000 cycles, and I think 800 for iPads.
  • Reply 90 of 126
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,069member
    ZooMigo said:
    mavemufc said:
    Does anyone think this is a big deal? Apple choose to preserve battery life over power in older models, they continually update iOS and bring new phones out every year, the way technology advances I don't see this as a big deal but thats maybe cause I'm more than happy to pay whatever for the latest phones, I certainly wouldn't expect my old iPhone 6 to work at the same speed as my new iPhone 10, regardless of how old the device is.
    This is a big deal for me. Apple crippled my device, without my consent. It is MY choice to decide when to buy a new one, not this forced obsolescence. I also wouldn't expect my iPhone 6 to perform as fast as an X, but I damn sure don't expect for the manufacturer to cripple a device I paid for either.
    Yep it's a Car Salesman move.   Phones start running slow after less than 2 years , update comes out and performance tanks, out of frustration people go in and the Apple salesmen suggest new phone as the solution.  Apple gets new sale and the trade in of a good phone that one needs a battery.   Phone gets sold in 3 Rd world country as refurbished .   Apple probably makes hundreds in both transactions.  Same as car dealerships.
  • Reply 91 of 126
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,069member
    MacPro said:
    danv2 said:
    Just another person making this world muddy and messy.

    Apple doesn't owe anybody any money.
    It owes a shit load in taxes and is gonna pay up as per the EU lol. Regarding this situation: if they were transparent then they would not be getting fucked on this deal. They should have made it a feature, and left it to the consumer to decide. When you make calls like this on behalf of the customer, then they will come at you with fangs. More importantly, a prompt should pop up "its time to replace your battery for $80" instead of "lemme slow you down bro w/out telling you bro" etc.

    There is a clear cut difference here, and they made a mistake on assuming what each person would want.
    My suggestion is a message that says "Your battery is getting to near to its end, so ... do you want to keep going as you are and risk the phone dying on you or allow iOS to slow down some processes to make it last a little longer, totally up to you bro."
    Yes that would make sense, but what happened to the 1,000 cycles claim on their batteries? I do remember Apple boasting it a few years back.

    1,000 cycles is a little over 3 years if you drain your battery every single day. 
    Apple claims 500 cycles on an iPhone, which by your math puts it at 1.5 years. It’s a mac battery they claim 1000 cycles, and I think 800 for iPads.
    1.5 years seems pretty poor.
  • Reply 92 of 126
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,069member
    iOS 11 has not been great for me. Incredibly laggy on my iPad Pro. Phil Schiller gave an interview with the London Daily Telegraph (behind paywall). In the interview he was asked about software issues and said Apple had to do some ‘soul searching’. This is just more bad PR, which is the last thing Apple needs.
    I do thing all of Apple operating system flavors are giving the big challenges in terms of supporting existing products and moving forward.  They are:
      
    1.  iOS on IPhone X
    2.  iOS on iPhone 8 and lower
    3. iOS on iPads
    4.  Apple watchOS
    5.  tvOS
    6.  macOS
    7.  And soon homePod OS-which really needs to have a much better Siri.

    they dropped the ball on the MacPro and it looks like touchbar isn't going anywhere.  And touchbar was supposed to be their answer to the touch and mouse supported ChromeBooks and windows 10.   yep they got challenges.  They are doing much better than Microsoft when MS had windows 7 on intel and windows RT in terms of user experience but don't underestimate all the work they probably have to go through when they come out with something like the AirPods to support it in multiple environments.   That's why I think Apple has spent time on new fileOS that is used in multiple products -  updates should be easier now to that one subsystem.
    edited December 2017
  • Reply 93 of 126
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,069member
    dws-2 said:
    In another universe, someone is suing Apple because their devices suddenly shut down.
    In another universe, someone is suing battery manufacturers because the batteries lose charge over time.

    And in a another universe (far, far, far away), no one is suing anyone about this because they realize that everything is trying to make the best product possible.
    in this universe This seems to be hitting all the major news outlets .   So there's a good Chance that it would will come up a Christmas family get togethers.  So Apple legal better be prepare Tim Cook for a Grilling in front of a Congressional Committee and he will probably take shots from both Democrsts and Republicans.
  • Reply 94 of 126
    jume said:
    They should get sued for this. My iPhone 6 is so fucking slow at moments its barely useable. Why there just can't be a switch in settings. It's my decision if I want usable phone or if an app shuts down because of an old battery. This is bad for Apple. 
    The iPhone 6 is practically ancient. You either need a new battery or a new iPhone. Apple will be happy to oblige you with one or the other as long as you have the money to pay. How about getting a new iPhone X. I hear they're quite fast.
    My wife’s 6, my former phone, has a great battery and is still as fast as my 6s. 
  • Reply 95 of 126
    Funny that I read an article here a few months ago stating the exact opposite.

    I accepted that as truth at the time despite my suspicion that my current phone ( and previous phones ) had slowed beyond what I would expect from a more demanding Os and apps.

    I guess slowing phones to prevent unexpected problems is not an unreasonable thing to do but a little more transparency would be nice...and perhaps a little better reporting.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 96 of 126
    adm1adm1 Posts: 638member
    skaduusch said:
    Not telling consumers about this behavior has nothing to do with "transparency." If Apple were to point out every little detail about how iOS works it would be too long for anyone to actually read. This isn't a "feature" nor is it a fault. Electronic devices in general are not going to function as optimally when their power source weakens. That's the way electronics work. The fact that they had to make this compromise in order to keep the phone running smoothly (even if a little slower) is a much better solution than just letting the phone crash all the time. My car battery weakens over time too and eventually can't start my car any more. At that point I have to get a new battery, that's just life.
    Personally I would much prefer the phone completely crashing because then I would know there is a real issue that I could get repaired. Instead of dealing with the more ambiguous problem of it lagging for the simplest tasks like typing in a word to search for in Safari where I have no idea if the cause is the iOS version or whether I need to do something special to clear the app or whatever.
    +1 This!

    My 6S used to drive me nuts with the shutdowns but at least I knew it would only happen when my battery was below 50% so if I kept it above that everything was golden. This generic slowdown is worse imho - try to take a photo and the camera takes up to 10seconds to react, the keyboard now has lag. A little continual slowness is much more frustrating than the odd shutdown under known conditions in my opinion. Apple should make it a toggle switch in settings.
  • Reply 97 of 126
    The case has no merit. Once Apple references a bona fide safety issue in connection with this the lawsuit is dead in the water.

    https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/apple-iphone-battery-slow

    The most they can be nailed on is a lack of transparency, but that would depend on whether the user experience might be impacted drastically notwithstanding the safety component, which I suspect is negligible given other factors that would contribute to slower performance of older phones anyway. 
    radarthekat
  • Reply 98 of 126
    For all those transparency freaks:

    Apple notifies you that your battery needs to be serviced. That appears in the Settings application, under Battery tab. It is permanent, it does not go away. You can see it whenever you check your battery within the Settings app.

    Then what is the course of action? There is only one thing to do:  Service your battery, dude... !!

    At this point what you need is not transparency, what you need is service !!!

    If Apple still keeps your iPhone functioning instead of leaving it shut down unexpectedly it is benevolence not obligation.


    edited December 2017
  • Reply 99 of 126
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,127moderator
    skaduusch said:
    Not telling consumers about this behavior has nothing to do with "transparency." If Apple were to point out every little detail about how iOS works it would be too long for anyone to actually read. This isn't a "feature" nor is it a fault. Electronic devices in general are not going to function as optimally when their power source weakens. That's the way electronics work. The fact that they had to make this compromise in order to keep the phone running smoothly (even if a little slower) is a much better solution than just letting the phone crash all the time. My car battery weakens over time too and eventually can't start my car any more. At that point I have to get a new battery, that's just life.
    Personally I would much prefer the phone completely crashing because then I would know there is a real issue that I could get repaired. Instead of dealing with the more ambiguous problem of it lagging for the simplest tasks like typing in a word to search for in Safari where I have no idea if the cause is the iOS version or whether I need to do something special to clear the app or whatever.
    So you’d prefer, at a time when a user might be doing something important, like retrieving notes and browsing a map on his/her way to an important business meeting, to have the phone shut down and after restarting, have the same thing happen again as those apps are fired back up?  Nope, I’d much prefer to just get a bit slower map update, but that’s just me.  
    edited December 2017 Soli
  • Reply 100 of 126
    jume said:
    They should get sued for this. My iPhone 6 is so fucking slow at moments its barely useable. Why there just can't be a switch in settings. It's my decision if I want usable phone or if an app shuts down because of an old battery. This is bad for Apple. 
    The iPhone 6 is practically ancient. You either need a new battery or a new iPhone. Apple will be happy to oblige you with one or the other as long as you have the money to pay. How about getting a new iPhone X. I hear they're quite fast.
    Indiana Jones and the Legend of the iPhone 6
    I have 2 iPhone 6 Pluses and 2 iPhone Xs.  Before suffering from the Apple throttling, the iPhone 6 Pluses did screenshots within a second. During 10th - 15th December 2017, they took 10 seconds to do a single screenshot.  Using coconutBattery app on a Mac, I can see their battery capacities are still well, at 92.5% (8 months old) and 88.9% (31 months old); my spare iPhone 3GS still has 79.1% of their design capacity. My iPhone 3GS is running iOS 6.1.6, but it takes a screenshot in a fraction of a second!  Much faster than my iPhone 6 Plus, which took 10 seconds a week ago, now returned to within 2-3 seconds.  

    Just download the coconutBattery from www.coconut-favour.com. It's free and save you $79+ for a new battery.  Does Apple stock up old battery for sale?  Why AppleInsider helps Apple to sell batteries?  
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