The problem is that we no longer live in a society where facts, reason, or rational explanations matter. Personal beliefs and perceptions, no matter how naive or subjective, are the only reality. Apple can try to explain this with sound engineering, scientific, and customer value principles and logic but it will not change the minds of those who have already decided that this incident fully confirms everything negative they already believe about Apple. There are many commenters who now attribute every perceived performance degradation on their device to be an intentional act by Apple to trick them into buying a new device, regardless of the health of their battery. Unfortunately it all starts at the top and there is no cure in sight.
Here are my facts: My wife iPhone 5S on iOS 7 after 4 years runs as smooth as my iPhone 7 on iOS 10! I was very close to update the software on her 5S recently but glad I didn't. Based on my experience I'm inclined to believe what I suspected of apple for a while: they are shameless lying hypocrites and charlatans like most if not all large corporations!
Dude, more new software ,means more complex code, with more features & animations.Your Hardware is not upgraded, like your software. So , generally your phone will slow down with the progression of time. But personally I found little difference between iOS 6 iPhone 5 & iOS 10.3.2 iPhone 5
Why do so many older models get the latest software? So Apple can put up a slide showing most of the install base on the latest software and make fun of Google’s so-called fragmentation? What good is being on the latest software if it makes your phone experience not great? I know Apple says it’s worked on making the latest software better for older devices but every year Ars Technics tests this out and the experience is still not that great.
My iPad Mini 2 (A7) performs better under iOS 11 than your iPad Pro with almost no lag. I turned off many features, notably transparency, motion, many of background app refreshes; disabled recent apps on the dock, disabled video overlay, keeping only a couple of Safari tabs open... I always close unused apps via app switcher, closing them releases significant memory. I suggest to do the same on your iPad Pro.
What I mean, owners of older devices can optimize the operating system along with their usage patterns and can still benefit from the deeper enhancements brought by the latest versions and my iPad Mini 2 battery lasts longer under iOS 11. OS X Leopard 10.5.8 still keeps an iBook G4 (a 2005 PowerPC machine) functioning as a media server via iTunes Home Sharing. I am very glad Apple supports older devices with the new OS releases and this is one reason many people commits to Apple. And Apple doesn't force anyone to install the latest OS version. If the government would keep your five years old car out of traffic you would be enraged. That is the point.
Who wants to have to do all that? No Apple doesn’t force OS upgrades but I’m sure like my 75 year old mother a lot of people do when they get the notification. They’re not thinking oh if I do this it will slow down my device. They’re thinking if Apple is telling me new software is available I better update.
Do not bully your mother for updating, she does the right thing. Update is essential. Slowness and optimizations are secondary issues. Anyone can help your mother with optimizations, the neighbour's kid, the nearby PC dealer. Thanks to the update her device remains fully functional, without disrupting her Netflix, Facetime, WhatsApp or whatever.
What happened to it just works? If I have to do all these optimizations then iOS has just become Android.
Then don’t upgrade, that’s all. Then don’t complain if this or that site cannot display its pages on your device because of obsolete Javascript, if your calls drop haphazardly or if you cannot pair new Bluetooth devices and alike... It just works doesn’t mean unlimited functionality for an indefinite amount of time. No tech product provides that.
The problem is that we no longer live in a society where facts, reason, or rational explanations matter. Personal beliefs and perceptions, no matter how naive or subjective, are the only reality. Apple can try to explain this with sound engineering, scientific, and customer value principles and logic but it will not change the minds of those who have already decided that this incident fully confirms everything negative they already believe about Apple. There are many commenters who now attribute every perceived performance degradation on their device to be an intentional act by Apple to trick them into buying a new device, regardless of the health of their battery. Unfortunately it all starts at the top and there is no cure in sight.
Here are my facts: My wife iPhone 5S on iOS 7 after 4 years runs as smooth as my iPhone 7 on iOS 10! I was very close to update the software on her 5S recently but glad I didn't. Based on my experience I'm inclined to believe what I suspected of apple for a while: they are shameless lying hypocrites and charlatans like most if not all large corporations!
Dude, more new software ,means more complex code, with more features & animations.Your Hardware is not upgraded, like your software. So , generally your phone will slow down with the progression of time. But personally I found little difference between iOS 6 iPhone 5 & iOS 10.3.2 iPhone 5
Why do so many older models get the latest software? So Apple can put up a slide showing most of the install base on the latest software and make fun of Google’s so-called fragmentation? What good is being on the latest software if it makes your phone experience not great? I know Apple says it’s worked on making the latest software better for older devices but every year Ars Technics tests this out and the experience is still not that great.
My iPad Mini 2 (A7) performs better under iOS 11 than your iPad Pro with almost no lag. I turned off many features, notably transparency, motion, many of background app refreshes; disabled recent apps on the dock, disabled video overlay, keeping only a couple of Safari tabs open... I always close unused apps via app switcher, closing them releases significant memory. I suggest to do the same on your iPad Pro.
What I mean, owners of older devices can optimize the operating system along with their usage patterns and can still benefit from the deeper enhancements brought by the latest versions and my iPad Mini 2 battery lasts longer under iOS 11. OS X Leopard 10.5.8 still keeps an iBook G4 (a 2005 PowerPC machine) functioning as a media server via iTunes Home Sharing. I am very glad Apple supports older devices with the new OS releases and this is one reason many people commits to Apple. And Apple doesn't force anyone to install the latest OS version. If the government would keep your five years old car out of traffic you would be enraged. That is the point.
Who wants to have to do all that? No Apple doesn’t force OS upgrades but I’m sure like my 75 year old mother a lot of people do when they get the notification. They’re not thinking oh if I do this it will slow down my device. They’re thinking if Apple is telling me new software is available I better update.
Do not bully your mother for updating, she does the right thing. Update is essential. Slowness and optimizations are secondary issues. Anyone can help your mother with optimizations, the neighbour's kid, the nearby PC dealer. Thanks to the update her device remains fully functional, without disrupting her Netflix, Facetime, WhatsApp or whatever.
What happened to it just works? If I have to do all these optimizations then iOS has just become Android.
Then don’t upgrade, that’s all. Then don’t complain if this or that site cannot display its pages on your device because of obsolete Javascript, if your calls drop haphazardly or if you cannot pair new Bluetooth devices and alike... It just works doesn’t mean unlimited functionality for an indefinite amount of time. No tech product provides that.
I am glad people like you don’t run Apple’s software update group.
The real issue here is that we need the right to downgrade our iOS firmware. We should have the right to return our phones to the way we first bought them. Not including all these terrible hacks, unlocks, I’m talking about with full support of Apple, and full retroactive releases of firmware. Hiding behind the scare tactic of “but but but scary vulnerabilities” just won’t cut it. Now that I took away all your lame arguments against, get going my lackies make it so. Do your job, go work. Do. Bye.
The problem is that we no longer live in a society where facts, reason, or rational explanations matter. Personal beliefs and perceptions, no matter how naive or subjective, are the only reality. Apple can try to explain this with sound engineering, scientific, and customer value principles and logic but it will not change the minds of those who have already decided that this incident fully confirms everything negative they already believe about Apple. There are many commenters who now attribute every perceived performance degradation on their device to be an intentional act by Apple to trick them into buying a new device, regardless of the health of their battery. Unfortunately it all starts at the top and there is no cure in sight.
Here are my facts: My wife iPhone 5S on iOS 7 after 4 years runs as smooth as my iPhone 7 on iOS 10! I was very close to update the software on her 5S recently but glad I didn't. Based on my experience I'm inclined to believe what I suspected of apple for a while: they are shameless lying hypocrites and charlatans like most if not all large corporations!
Dude, more new software ,means more complex code, with more features & animations.Your Hardware is not upgraded, like your software. So , generally your phone will slow down with the progression of time. But personally I found little difference between iOS 6 iPhone 5 & iOS 10.3.2 iPhone 5
Why do so many older models get the latest software? So Apple can put up a slide showing most of the install base on the latest software and make fun of Google’s so-called fragmentation? What good is being on the latest software if it makes your phone experience not great? I know Apple says it’s worked on making the latest software better for older devices but every year Ars Technics tests this out and the experience is still not that great.
My iPad Mini 2 (A7) performs better under iOS 11 than your iPad Pro with almost no lag. I turned off many features, notably transparency, motion, many of background app refreshes; disabled recent apps on the dock, disabled video overlay, keeping only a couple of Safari tabs open... I always close unused apps via app switcher, closing them releases significant memory. I suggest to do the same on your iPad Pro.
What I mean, owners of older devices can optimize the operating system along with their usage patterns and can still benefit from the deeper enhancements brought by the latest versions and my iPad Mini 2 battery lasts longer under iOS 11. OS X Leopard 10.5.8 still keeps an iBook G4 (a 2005 PowerPC machine) functioning as a media server via iTunes Home Sharing. I am very glad Apple supports older devices with the new OS releases and this is one reason many people commits to Apple. And Apple doesn't force anyone to install the latest OS version. If the government would keep your five years old car out of traffic you would be enraged. That is the point.
Who wants to have to do all that? No Apple doesn’t force OS upgrades but I’m sure like my 75 year old mother a lot of people do when they get the notification. They’re not thinking oh if I do this it will slow down my device. They’re thinking if Apple is telling me new software is available I better update.
Do not bully your mother for updating, she does the right thing. Update is essential. Slowness and optimizations are secondary issues. Anyone can help your mother with optimizations, the neighbour's kid, the nearby PC dealer. Thanks to the update her device remains fully functional, without disrupting her Netflix, Facetime, WhatsApp or whatever.
What happened to it just works? If I have to do all these optimizations then iOS has just become Android.
Then don’t upgrade, that’s all. Then don’t complain if this or that site cannot display its pages on your device because of obsolete Javascript, if your calls drop haphazardly or if you cannot pair new Bluetooth devices and alike... It just works doesn’t mean unlimited functionality for an indefinite amount of time. No tech product provides that.
If Apple offers the software upgrade to my device I should be able to upgrade without having to do all these tweaks. Otherwise don’t offer the upgrade. Now I have an old Windows PC running Windows 7 and I still get critical software updates. Why couldn’t Apple provide critical updates to the previous version of iOS and push those to devices running it? For certain older devices they could also offer the latest OS but maybe with a disclaimer about performance. Then people could choose if they want new features and are willing to accept the performance/battery life trade offs or if they don’t really care about the new features because their device is running well and gets decent battery life.
When my iPhome 6 was 18 months old and still under AppleCare it started spontaneously dying when the battery remaining was 40% and I did something like shoot a video. Apple wouldn’t replace the battery because I wasn’t on the current OS and because the battery did not “test” out of spec according to the Genius Bar. Sure enough months later when I finally gave up my jailbreak and updated iOS the sudden shutdowns stopped too, but now the phone was slow as heck.... so... I replaced it.
This is the key thing people are missing. Is this isn’t just 4 year old phones. Let’s talk about what an old battery is... in my case it should have been a manufactures defect under warranty replacement at 18 months and wasn’t because the software crippled it instead. .
Phones should operate normally, full power, for at least their warranty duration, don’t you think?
Phones should operate normally, full power, for the lifetime of the product. Period. When the battery dies, you swap it. Just like every other device. That's not as profitable though.
I just swapped my 6S' battery today, the difference in speed between it and my friend's 7 is negligible now. This is incredible.
Nothing is as mesmerizing as watching some die-hard Apple users attempt to prop up the company's lack of transparency knowing that if this had been Alphabet or Microsoft (or anyone else that ISN'T Apple), those same people would be verbally slicing and dicing their way to holiday bliss in this forum.
Oh...and before you claim I'm a Windows plant or a Google apologist...I typed this while wearing an Apple Watch and posted it from a Mac mini sitting inches from an iPhone 7 Plus in a home with a 2015 MacBook Pro, three Apple TV's with a bunch of old, spent Apple boxes in the corner of the basement. I love the company...but I HATE that a third party and customers ALWAYS have to drag out of them an admission of being too secretive, of producing a substandard product or of being just plain wrong.
May you have a Merry Christmas and the happiest 2018 possible.
Maybe Apple should be transparent about how they’re actually extending battery life and helping people use their old iPhones even longer by doing this.
But they didn't do that because the batteries in lots of phones are probably lemons and they did not want to fix them.
I imagine that Apple is hoping this will blow over and its back to business as usual. Otherwise we would have heard from Cook, Schiller, Ive ,Riccio, or Federighi.
Im dropping a message at my Congressman and Senators complaining about this . While politicians are blowhards, Cook would have to tell the truth in a Congressional committee hearing.
Nothing is as mesmerizing as watching some die-hard Apple users attempt to prop up the company's lack of transparency knowing that if this had been Alphabet or Microsoft (or anyone else that ISN'T Apple), those same people would be verbally slicing and dicing their way to holiday bliss in this forum.
Oh...and before you claim I'm a Windows plant or a Google apologist...I typed this while wearing an Apple Watch and posted it from a Mac mini sitting inches from an iPhone 7 Plus in a home with a 2015 MacBook Pro, three Apple TV's with a bunch of old, spent Apple boxes in the corner of the basement. I love the company...but I HATE that a third party and customers ALWAYS have to drag out of them an admission of being too secretive, of producing a substandard product or of being just plain wrong.
May you have a Merry Christmas and the happiest 2018 possible.
Maybe Apple should be transparent about how they’re actually extending battery life and helping people use their old iPhones even longer by doing this.
But they didn't do that because the batteries in lots of phones are probably lemons and they did not want to fix them.
You just invented that. If you have a bad battery under warranty you can replace it. But now you’re making up a story that these are lemons. Absurd.
“Not noted in the filing is that the update prevented unexpected shutdowns with a chemically depleted battery in the case of the iPhone 5s, iPhone 6, and iPhone SE. Batteries are considered consumables, with users responsible for condition of the battery after Apple's one-year warranty expires, or after two years if AppleCare+ is purchased for the device.”
Bingo. Decline of Li batteries is simple chemistry.
But hey, add an authorization warning with a “yes I’d like to avoid shutdowns” or “no, I’d like to risk shutdowns”.
When my iPhome 6 was 18 months old and still under AppleCare it started spontaneously dying when the battery remaining was 40% and I did something like shoot a video. Apple wouldn’t replace the battery because I wasn’t on the current OS and because the battery did not “test” out of spec according to the Genius Bar. Sure enough months later when I finally gave up my jailbreak and updated iOS the sudden shutdowns stopped too, but now the phone was slow as heck.... so... I replaced it.
This is the key thing people are missing. Is this isn’t just 4 year old phones. Let’s talk about what an old battery is... in my case it should have been a manufactures defect under warranty replacement at 18 months and wasn’t because the software crippled it instead. .
Phones should operate normally, full power, for at least their warranty duration, don’t you think?
So my thought on your last question is: my car doesn’t throttle my engine when I am low on gas. To my knowledge, my MacBook doesn’t throttle my chips as the battery is aging. What makes the iPhone so special?
I bought a device that is expected to produce a certain level of preformance, I expect it to continue that level at all times unless otherwise told. Why cover up a failing battery? If it’s a serious problem, I will replace it, as most consumers would once it’s condition is poor. There is no defending Apple on this one.
Not sure how big of a deal this is but the iOS versions here lately have been horrid on my iPhone 7. So bad, I am restarting or hard restarting my phone at least once per day, often multiple times per day. It’s like using a beta iOS or a Samsung. Really annoying. Generally it happens when using built in Apple apps too. Anyone else having a similar experience?
My iPhone 7 Plus works flawlessly. The classic issue is app incompatibility when there’s OS updates, I’ve over 200 and odds are there are developers who’ve not quite got it right. Just like with desktop OS upgrades though there’s so much less numbers of application software involved it’s easier to keep up.
Thst many restarts is intolerable: were that me I’d have been in to a repair center long ago. Get it checked and repaired or replaced, though doing a full system restore from your backup could address the issue. Sometimes code just gets corrupted.
They were artifficially slowing down old devices for real after all.
No they actually aren’t. Read the article. Devices with FAILING batteries get slowed. It’s not the age of the device, it’s the performance state of the installed battery. Which is inevitable chemistry.
Nobody and no jury is going to believe this steaming pile of bullshit from Apple, and rightly so. They would be well served to state the truth from here on - rather than keep feeding this bullshit narrative.
They throttled performance to encourage upgrading. They wrote this code as a narrative in case they were ever found out. Never because they wanted to prolong the period of people buying new phones and hurting profits. They deceived everyone because they wanted a better customer experience??? What kind of drooling morons do they take us for?
They are going to get absolutely destroyed in courts all over the globe and in the US congress.
The problem is, again, that it is not suported by evidence. All slowing down that I was able to see on my old iphone 5c, 6 was about 1-2 percent max (tested via geekbench) and was due to ios updates having more code to run. You dont really slow down a phone by 2 percent to have customers switch. They wont event notice it.
Here are some facts. Each time a new iOS is released, people come here and complain about their devices being slow, and decreased battery life. This is already something that happens every time a new iOS major version comes out, and has become just another part of the Apple experience. I don't think anyone can deny this. iOS features are being added which slow down older iPhones and drain their batteries faster than the old iOS version it replaced. Then, when some people want to go back to the prior version, Apple stops signing it, so they can boast about how many people are on the new iOS version. Now, the reasons behind this slowing down, and decreased battery life, are not clearly known. But that does not take a way from the fact that this happens, and is not a good experience in the Apple ecosystem. That's why the rumors of planned obsolescence started, based on this. And that is why Apple does not get the benefit of the doubt now when they made a mistake, by some people.
This is why I don't like Apple. They think they know what's best for their customers and also they have an amazing talent to cover their deficiencies up and repackage it to make them look like they are positive improvement. I gotta give a big applause to their PR team. Amazing people who can sell ice to Eskimos.
Any person with some brain knows the Li batteries lose it's charge capacities after certain number of charges, like 500 times or so then slowly after that it only charges up to 90 80 70 and so on then at some point if you can't stand less battery capacities then you get new batteries. Same with any rechargeable tools or electronic devices. It's a given fact.
I buy androids only because I don't like Apple's business philosophy. Regardless I understand both Iphones and Android phones will face the same battery degradation over time.
I had HTC, LG V20, GS3, Note 2, ZTE, 5 of GS7 Edges, and several tablets and notebooks from different manufacturers. Some removable batteries and some built in. My biggest worry about GS7 Edge was that when the battery gets old it is not as easy as the previous phones where I could simply replace the battery on my own besides the convenience of swapping batteries when the batteries dead.
Apple charges quite more than it's competitors because they claim it's premium phone. And they list many things as it's features but the thing they boast most is it's faster apu and their customers buy the phones for that reason among the others.
Well, I would think if it's a premium phone and they know the limitation of the battery technology they would design their apu so that it would be robust enough to operate even when the battery level is low or charge current is low. But they didn't.
So now customers complain that the phone shuts off at 40% battery level after using a couple of years or so then they throttle the apu speed so it does not shut off as frequent yet somewhat usable for most tasks just slower. "To protect the components and for the better user experience"
And they didn't let their customers know what's going on until they cannot keep it quiet anymore.
I don't know about the owners of other products but with me I never once had issues with phone shutting off until the battery level is 2 or even 1 percent especially with Samsungs. The screen might be really really dim below 5% battery level but kept going at full throttle. Yes the battery was draining faster than if it was throttled down but I wouldn't like it even if it had throttle down mode. I just control my use of the phone. Just use less if I need to prolong the battery time. But when I use it I want 100% performance out of it.
Many times I used my phones until the battery level gets down to zero over and over when I charge the phones then none of them stopped working! They always get charged back to 100% and so far there isn't a phone that became unusable because I used them until battery drains completely.
So I was kind of scratching my head "Iphone shuts down to protect the phone itself at 40% or so? So they slow down the apu if the battery gets old and hold less charge?" So what's the point of paying extra $$$ for fast apu phone if you don't get that full throttle speed after a while. To me regardless of how you want to look at it if it shuts off at 40% then it should say 0% because the phone does not work anymore at that point.
Well, if the Apple disclosed that after a couple of years of use their phones will shut off at 40% battery level to save the phones then far less people would buy them and that also a proof that there is a serious design flaw that low battery/voltage level can damage the phone whereas other phones don't.
Back to their marketing. Apple is the master of positioning of their products. They are genius at marketing and PRs. But I think they reach the point where those cannot carry them any farther. Like all the other big companies Apple is following Nokia's footstep and it's ironic that it was Apple who brought down Nokia.
It would have been fine if they admitted that with the older batteries the performance can be degraded and gave the choice to the customers full throttle all the way or less throttle for longer usage per battery charge instead of made that choice and shoved it down their customers throats. Pure arrogance......
But seriously the Iphones did shut off at 40% battery level?????? smh I don't see any premium-ness in it.
Thanks for visiting. You can now return to your android forums and declare trolling mission accomplished.
Here are some facts. Each time a new iOS is released, people come here and complain about their devices being slow, and decreased battery life. This is already something that happens every time a new iOS major version comes out, and has become just another part of the Apple experience. I don't think anyone can deny this. iOS features are being added which slow down older iPhones and drain their batteries faster than the old iOS version it replaced. Then, when some people want to go back to the prior version, Apple stops signing it, so they can boast about how many people are on the new iOS version. Now, the reasons behind this slowing down, and decreased battery life, are not clearly known. But that does not take a way from the fact that this happens, and is not a good experience in the Apple ecosystem. That's why the rumors of planned obsolescence started, based on this. And that is why Apple does not get the benefit of the doubt now when they made a mistake, by some people.
1. Perception is not the same as what is really happening. 2. Numbers do not support 1)
not everything people say is a fact. When people allege something is a fact because they said so, the only fact that is there, is that they indeed said something.
I think Apple just has to be transparent about the battery lifespan and tell users that on one hand they can expect updates for up to 5 years and on the other hand to expect the device to slow down as the battery gets older and the OS acts to maximize battery life. Being up front about it would have helped. Now Apple has to do damage control and the haters out there will just say that Apple wants people to buy a new phone. Offering battery replacement more obviously would help.
Battery replacement has been available for some time for $79.
Agree about more transparency, though.
Apple should do what they did with the Mac OS on the MacBook Pro where it monitors the battery cycle and apply that to the iOS. Have a software that is integrated into the iOS where it can monitor the health, cycle of charge and discharge of the battery. I think a class action law suit is a bit extreme, but Apple could have made more aware of the matter before people found out on their own, where as then Apple had to confessed to the situation when it was to late and made them look bad even though that may have not been their attention. Technology is expensive for anyone so I personally feel that whatever the hardware is that it should have software that can tell us the health of the device and give as warnings when something is wrong.
Apple does monitor the life of a devices battery. You can go into any Apple Store and they'll run a diagnostic on it which will tell them (and you) how far depleted the battery is inside your device. They can also tell you the cycle count on your battery as well. Mine for example is 39 as I happen to have access to AST2 so I can run the diagnostics on an iOS device.
I understand what you are saying, but it would be nice if the iOS could show us a live update of hardware status or health of the device without having to go to a Apple Store to have it checked. That is why I brought up the MacBooks because they can show us the status without having to take it to a Apple Store. Sorry for my ignorance but I do not know what AST2 is. Is it hardware that does diagnostics on Apple devices or is it a software that is used to diagnose through the internet or is it something entirely something else? Again sorry for the lack of knowledge in some of this. Thank you for informing of something I did not know.
Comments
Wait...
I just swapped my 6S' battery today, the difference in speed between it and my friend's 7 is negligible now. This is incredible.
I imagine that Apple is hoping this will blow over and its back to business as usual. Otherwise we would have heard from Cook, Schiller, Ive ,Riccio, or Federighi.
Im dropping a message at my Congressman and Senators complaining about this . While politicians are blowhards, Cook would have to tell the truth in a Congressional committee hearing.
Bingo. Decline of Li batteries is simple chemistry.
But hey, add an authorization warning with a “yes I’d like to avoid shutdowns” or “no, I’d like to risk shutdowns”.
Thst many restarts is intolerable: were that me I’d have been in to a repair center long ago. Get it checked and repaired or replaced, though doing a full system restore from your backup could address the issue. Sometimes code just gets corrupted.
2. Numbers do not support 1)
not everything people say is a fact. When people allege something is a fact because they said so, the only fact that is there, is that they indeed said something.
https://youtu.be/gf_Bb6ygwKc