…an amazing talent to cover their deficiencies up and repackage it to make them look like they are positive improvement.
Any person with some brain knows the Li batteries lose it’s charge capacities after certain number of charges…
So how is that a defect?
I buy androids only because I don't like Apple's business philosophy.
Which is?
Well, I would think if it's a premium phone and they know the limitation of the battery technology they would design their apu so that it would be robust enough to operate even when the battery level is low or charge current is low. But they didn't.
Except it is operating when the battery level and charge are low. It’s operating better than the ones that don’t throttle. How can you even say this?
I just control my use of the phone. Just use less if I need to prolong the battery time. But when I use it I want 100% performance out of it.
The problem is that we no longer live in a society where facts, reason, or rational explanations matter. Personal beliefs and perceptions, no matter how naive or subjective, are the only reality. Apple can try to explain this with sound engineering, scientific, and customer value principles and logic but it will not change the minds of those who have already decided that this incident fully confirms everything negative they already believe about Apple. There are many commenters who now attribute every perceived performance degradation on their device to be an intentional act by Apple to trick them into buying a new device, regardless of the health of their battery. Unfortunately it all starts at the top and there is no cure in sight.
Here are my facts: My wife iPhone 5S on iOS 7 after 4 years runs as smooth as my iPhone 7 on iOS 10! I was very close to update the software on her 5S recently but glad I didn't. Based on my experience I'm inclined to believe what I suspected of apple for a while: they are shameless lying hypocrites and charlatans like most if not all large corporations!
And you just proved dewme's original point. Even though you suspect that your wife's phone performance would be degraded if the OS was upgraded, it hasn't been and still performs well. Based on this non-event and some unspecified previous experience, you conclude Apple is full of 'shameless lying hypocrites and charlatans'. I suggest that you look in the mirror.
amigo, they are unscrupulous based on what they do by shamlesly slowing down older devices to make people upgrade. my wife phone wasnt upgraded because of the solid untheterd jailbreak that makes the phone usable. It alllows her to do a lot of other things including downloading youtube videos and music for offline use. As I was telling dewme, next time when you take your car to dealer hope they stuck it for you in the first gear to make you buy a newer model and tell you what roards to drive it on and who you can have as passengers. enjoy the apple philosophy..
Another very unfortunate aspect of the battery wear compensation workaround is the sudden proclamation by many that ALL system slowdown issues that have ever occurred with an iPhone are now attributable to this specific condition. Therefore, when this wildfire is finally quenched and some sort of workaround to the workaround is deployed by Apple (not sure what exactly will ever fully extinguish all the flamers), some users will absolutely still see occasional and intermittent slowdowns on their devices. What then? More backlash, did Apple lie about the "fix" or are they still engaged in nefarious plots to still trick current users into upgrading to a $1000 phone?
Nobody who's already made up their mind about Apple is going to allow themselves to look at these devices for what they really are. The iPhone is an incredibly complex integration of hardware, firmware, software, chemistry, optics, thermodynamics, physics, electromagnetics, and human factors. In other words, it's an engineered product. The performance of the iPhone at any given instant depends on a very deep stack of engineered design, integration, and trade offs all working together to deliver the greatest utility to the greatest number of users for the longest product lifetime.
When performance slowdowns, i.e., non-peak performance, occur any number of dependent processes, functions, or components anywhere in the engineered stack can be the cause. Overheating, overcooling, battery wear out, solid state memory wear out, excessive background processes/threads, stack/heap/freespace fragmentation, hung processes/threads, hot spinning processes/threads, poor cellular/wifi reception, degraded power components, physical damage, firmware bugs, kernel mode software bugs, user mode software bugs, badly implemented interprocess communication (IPC) strategies (inefficient use of locks, mutexes, semaphores, etc.), reference counting bugs, memory leaks, buffer overruns/underruns, and any one of a plethora of software implementations that is clearly "crap code" while not technically being a bug.
Everyone who contributes to the engineered stack in the iPhone, including Apple, app developers, and component suppliers, has an opportunity to upset the performance apple cart so to speak. When Apple releases a new version of iOS they often make changes in the stack to surface a new feature on the new SOC or to change existing behaviors, for example how apps behave in the background. Apple also exposes new and updated services to app developers that create additional performance related dependencies. Despite the fact that Apple takes a very stringent and engineered approach they don't always foresee every possible consequence and its impact on performance in every conceivable operational and environmental scenario. Oh, and it's a constantly moving target because everyone expects a Big New Wow every September. Plus, performance is not the only quality factor they have to be concerned with. All of the "ilities" like reliability, maintainability, modifiability, field serviceability, portability, and usability matter just as much as performance.
I know, I know, nobody wants to hear about rational technical details and complexity when the only thing that matters is that they've been cruelly and personally victimized by Apple and its evil intentions. If being a victim and seeking justice for their suffering is all that matters then they'd best enjoy the wallowing because it's never going to end. As soon as Apple figures out a way to soothe the dying battery victim's suffering some other Apple induced product flaw will undoubtedly rear its ugly head, a slowdown will occur, and once again convince them that the unrequited perfection they demand in all things and entities, outside of themselves of course, is continuing to make their own lives miserable, and for that, nothing short of a class action suit will suffice. Even if the class action ends in bitter defeat, the communal sharing of cyber grief and phony outrage has brought them all a little closer together in body and spirit, thanks to Apple.
you have a lot of free time I guess with these lengthy posts. nice apologetic try but it's all BS. this will not hold water in court
When my iPhome 6 was 18 months old and still under AppleCare it started spontaneously dying when the battery remaining was 40% and I did something like shoot a video. Apple wouldn’t replace the battery because I wasn’t on the current OS and because the battery did not “test” out of spec according to the Genius Bar. Sure enough months later when I finally gave up my jailbreak and updated iOS the sudden shutdowns stopped too, but now the phone was slow as heck.... so... I replaced it.
This is the key thing people are missing. Is this isn’t just 4 year old phones. Let’s talk about what an old battery is... in my case it should have been a manufactures defect under warranty replacement at 18 months and wasn’t because the software crippled it instead. .
Phones should operate normally, full power, for at least their warranty duration, don’t you think?
So my thought on your last question is: my car doesn’t throttle my engine when I am low on gas. To my knowledge, my MacBook doesn’t throttle my chips as the battery is aging. What makes the iPhone so special?
I bought a device that is expected to produce a certain level of preformance, I expect it to continue that level at all times unless otherwise told. Why cover up a failing battery? If it’s a serious problem, I will replace it, as most consumers would once it’s condition is poor. There is no defending Apple on this one.
Not sure how big of a deal this is but the iOS versions here lately have been horrid on my iPhone 7. So bad, I am restarting or hard restarting my phone at least once per day, often multiple times per day. It’s like using a beta iOS or a Samsung. Really annoying. Generally it happens when using built in Apple apps too. Anyone else having a similar experience?
No, but it may have a "limp home" mode in the event of some kind of problem. That's what this is. And, in the case of a depleted battery in at least the white plastic MacBooks, and MacBook Pros before 2010 for sure, and possibly more models, if it isn't capable of delivering enough power, or is not installed, the machine clocks itself down to properly operate.
I'm certainly not defending Apple's lack of response to the situation. However, there are chemical and physical realities associated with batteries, and the throttling in response to a depleted one is fine. Just not the lack of disclosure.
Again, the choices here are a crashing phone that shuts off randomly, or one that is slower and still works.
Where exactly those disclosures should be would be my question. There might be numerous fairly arcane situations that would need to be disclosed, if such disclosure is truly required.
In the previous article, about the first lawsuit, a commenter pointed out that the OS throttles the clock speed to prevent thermal issues. Should that be disclosed? Where, and when?
What about other issues that affect performance? Running 32-bit apps, back before they were culled? Should that have been disclosed at the time of a sale of an iPhone 5S, 6, 6S?
How about the minor difference in processor performance between the Samsung and TMSC A10’s? Should that have been printed on the back of each iPhone, like the P, (Philadelphia), D (Denver) or S (San Francisco) mint marks on old pennies?
Then there’s the Intel versus Qualcomm modem speeds. Again, print that on the back of the iPhone too? Let users make a choice?
The fact is, Apple doesn’t sell their iPhones on those specs. They don’t promise or represent that the CPU will always run at a certain clock speed. They do represent that each new CPU is faster than the previous generations, but that’s a relative comparison. If two generations of CPU are each downclocked under similar conditions (to prevent a thermal issue, for example), then the relative performance claims will remain true. The fact Apple doesn’t make a claim about absolute performance is, in my opinion, why these lawsuits will fail.
Where is it that Apple should be so transparent regarding all these esoteric device management issues?
Dialog box, the first time it happens.
"Your battery is depleted and is affecting device performance. Make an appointment at a Genius Bar for testing and possible replacement."
Done.
It already says that in the Settings app: Your battery need to be serviced. Better than a one time dialog since it is permanently there in the Settings app.
And once that notice appears, what you need is service, not transparency.
Yeah, I know, but as this issue is proving that some users can be really dumb about it, I think the main screen without delving into a menu is appropriate.
And, let's be perfectly clear about this. This isn't a binary on/off toggle. This isn't a "Well, your battery is X depleted, so we're going to constantly cripple it." This is a transient situation, and only happens when the phone is under heavy load, and the battery can't keep up the voltage.
Well, Apple doesn't design its devices and operating systems for really dumbs. There are Android and Windoze for thoze. Apple designs for the most sophisticated users.
If you're looking for a good, honest story on the iPhone throttling issue, how about this?
It's admitted that Apple throttles the clock speed on devices with older batteries when peak load is high... but all I hear is about how the phone is "slower."
Fine. But how much slower? What's the real world impact? Does my game drop from 30/fps to 29/fps? 20? 10? Does an app that took 2 seconds to launch now take 2.25? Or 10?
If the phone runs normally except at rare occasions during peak loads, just how is this an issue? If it runs slower all the time... then how much?
Facts would be good to have here, other that random comments about how my old phone is, "gawdalful slow."
When my iPhome 6 was 18 months old and still under AppleCare it started spontaneously dying when the battery remaining was 40% and I did something like shoot a video. Apple wouldn’t replace the battery because I wasn’t on the current OS and because the battery did not “test” out of spec according to the Genius Bar. Sure enough months later when I finally gave up my jailbreak and updated iOS the sudden shutdowns stopped too, but now the phone was slow as heck.... so... I replaced it.
This is the key thing people are missing. Is this isn’t just 4 year old phones. Let’s talk about what an old battery is... in my case it should have been a manufactures defect under warranty replacement at 18 months and wasn’t because the software crippled it instead. .
Phones should operate normally, full power, for at least their warranty duration, don’t you think?
So my thought on your last question is: my car doesn’t throttle my engine when I am low on gas. To my knowledge, my MacBook doesn’t throttle my chips as the battery is aging. What makes the iPhone so special?
I bought a device that is expected to produce a certain level of preformance, I expect it to continue that level at all times unless otherwise told. Why cover up a failing battery? If it’s a serious problem, I will replace it, as most consumers would once it’s condition is poor. There is no defending Apple on this one.
Not sure how big of a deal this is but the iOS versions here lately have been horrid on my iPhone 7. So bad, I am restarting or hard restarting my phone at least once per day, often multiple times per day. It’s like using a beta iOS or a Samsung. Really annoying. Generally it happens when using built in Apple apps too. Anyone else having a similar experience?
No, but it may have a "limp home" mode in the event of some kind of problem. That's what this is. And, in the case of a depleted battery in at least the white plastic MacBooks, and MacBook Pros before 2010 for sure, and possibly more models, if it isn't capable of delivering enough power, or is not installed, the machine clocks itself down to properly operate.
I'm certainly not defending Apple's lack of response to the situation. However, there are chemical and physical realities associated with batteries, and the throttling in response to a depleted one is fine. Just not the lack of disclosure.
Again, the choices here are a crashing phone that shuts off randomly, or one that is slower and still works.
Where exactly those disclosures should be would be my question. There might be numerous fairly arcane situations that would need to be disclosed, if such disclosure is truly required.
In the previous article, about the first lawsuit, a commenter pointed out that the OS throttles the clock speed to prevent thermal issues. Should that be disclosed? Where, and when?
What about other issues that affect performance? Running 32-bit apps, back before they were culled? Should that have been disclosed at the time of a sale of an iPhone 5S, 6, 6S?
How about the minor difference in processor performance between the Samsung and TMSC A10’s? Should that have been printed on the back of each iPhone, like the P, (Philadelphia), D (Denver) or S (San Francisco) mint marks on old pennies?
Then there’s the Intel versus Qualcomm modem speeds. Again, print that on the back of the iPhone too? Let users make a choice?
The fact is, Apple doesn’t sell their iPhones on those specs. They don’t promise or represent that the CPU will always run at a certain clock speed. They do represent that each new CPU is faster than the previous generations, but that’s a relative comparison. If two generations of CPU are each downclocked under similar conditions (to prevent a thermal issue, for example), then the relative performance claims will remain true. The fact Apple doesn’t make a claim about absolute performance is, in my opinion, why these lawsuits will fail.
Where is it that Apple should be so transparent regarding all these esoteric device management issues?
Dude...esoteric? Get real.This isn't a minor variance in battery or processor performance, as we've seen in the past. This is Apple deliberately slowing down older phones, ostensibly to preserve battery life. They did it without telling anyone until now. This means that people experienced slowdowns and didn't know why. How many people upgraded to a new phone when they may not have needed to?
This is a big deal, and Apple is going to take a real hit from it. Mark my words.
While we're being precise:
This is Apple deliberately slowing down a phone to prevent random shutdown and keep it functional in the case of an expendable component reaching the end of its operational life.
Low-voltage situations happen on Android too. You know what happens? The device crashes.
Yeah, It's a big deal. But, not for the reasons you want it to be.
I don't "want" it to be anything. The point is not that Apple is preserving battery life by throttling older devices. That's a reasonable "feature," if it is transparent. Like it or not, this is a PR debacle. In fact, AI just used that word in the headlines. Apple has long been suspected of slowing down older devices (for which there has not been evidence). Do you honestly think the general public will understand what's actually happening here? To Joe Six Pack, Apple just confirmed what he and many others believe. And they admitted it was deliberate, and secret for a time. Readers here get what they are doing. But readers here are not most people.
I have never said that it wasn't a PR issue. But, it's being fueled by other venues catering to a populace who doesn't actually want to be informed about it, with verbatim headlines such as "We knew it! Apple slows down older phones," "Apple admits it slows down old iPhones," and "Apple says slower performance of older iPhones is intentional."
One is a tech-centric venue. One is an Apple-specific site. The other is mainstream media. While none of them are a lie -- the headlines as such lack accuracy and precision and because they do, they fuel fires that shouldn't exist in the first place.
Speaking of Joe Six-Pack, who probably wasn't noticing the issue in the first place, which is worse -- a phone that shuts down seemingly at random, or a phone that might be slower but still works?
Well, I agree...but I that really has nothing to do with me. That's the media for you. As for the consumer, I'm not arguing it's a terrible feature. I'm saying the implementation and lack of transparency are major problems.
When my iPhome 6 was 18 months old and still under AppleCare it started spontaneously dying when the battery remaining was 40% and I did something like shoot a video. Apple wouldn’t replace the battery because I wasn’t on the current OS and because the battery did not “test” out of spec according to the Genius Bar. Sure enough months later when I finally gave up my jailbreak and updated iOS the sudden shutdowns stopped too, but now the phone was slow as heck.... so... I replaced it.
This is the key thing people are missing. Is this isn’t just 4 year old phones. Let’s talk about what an old battery is... in my case it should have been a manufactures defect under warranty replacement at 18 months and wasn’t because the software crippled it instead. .
Phones should operate normally, full power, for at least their warranty duration, don’t you think?
So my thought on your last question is: my car doesn’t throttle my engine when I am low on gas. To my knowledge, my MacBook doesn’t throttle my chips as the battery is aging. What makes the iPhone so special?
I bought a device that is expected to produce a certain level of preformance, I expect it to continue that level at all times unless otherwise told. Why cover up a failing battery? If it’s a serious problem, I will replace it, as most consumers would once it’s condition is poor. There is no defending Apple on this one.
Not sure how big of a deal this is but the iOS versions here lately have been horrid on my iPhone 7. So bad, I am restarting or hard restarting my phone at least once per day, often multiple times per day. It’s like using a beta iOS or a Samsung. Really annoying. Generally it happens when using built in Apple apps too. Anyone else having a similar experience?
No, but it may have a "limp home" mode in the event of some kind of problem. That's what this is. And, in the case of a depleted battery in at least the white plastic MacBooks, and MacBook Pros before 2010 for sure, and possibly more models, if it isn't capable of delivering enough power, or is not installed, the machine clocks itself down to properly operate.
I'm certainly not defending Apple's lack of response to the situation. However, there are chemical and physical realities associated with batteries, and the throttling in response to a depleted one is fine. Just not the lack of disclosure.
Again, the choices here are a crashing phone that shuts off randomly, or one that is slower and still works.
Where exactly those disclosures should be would be my question. There might be numerous fairly arcane situations that would need to be disclosed, if such disclosure is truly required.
In the previous article, about the first lawsuit, a commenter pointed out that the OS throttles the clock speed to prevent thermal issues. Should that be disclosed? Where, and when?
What about other issues that affect performance? Running 32-bit apps, back before they were culled? Should that have been disclosed at the time of a sale of an iPhone 5S, 6, 6S?
How about the minor difference in processor performance between the Samsung and TMSC A10’s? Should that have been printed on the back of each iPhone, like the P, (Philadelphia), D (Denver) or S (San Francisco) mint marks on old pennies?
Then there’s the Intel versus Qualcomm modem speeds. Again, print that on the back of the iPhone too? Let users make a choice?
The fact is, Apple doesn’t sell their iPhones on those specs. They don’t promise or represent that the CPU will always run at a certain clock speed. They do represent that each new CPU is faster than the previous generations, but that’s a relative comparison. If two generations of CPU are each downclocked under similar conditions (to prevent a thermal issue, for example), then the relative performance claims will remain true. The fact Apple doesn’t make a claim about absolute performance is, in my opinion, why these lawsuits will fail.
Where is it that Apple should be so transparent regarding all these esoteric device management issues?
Dialog box, the first time it happens.
"Your battery is depleted and is affecting device performance. Make an appointment at a Genius Bar for testing and possible replacement."
Done.
It already says that in the Settings app: Your battery need to be serviced. Better than a one time dialog since it is permanently there in the Settings app.
And once that notice appears, what you need is service, not transparency.
Why not both? How many people know to look in the settings app? Heck prior to this week how many people thought/knew their device slow down was due to the battery?
Why not both? Because this is Apple's benevolence not your right.
Because Apple doesn't slow down a crippled battery device every time. That happens when you push the processor or radio to its limits, when it is expected that they draw peak power and the battery is expected to not supply that peak power. Do not push your processor to its limits and you won't notice any slowdown. So why bother the user with a temporary and cautionary technique? The user is already alerted with the battery notice in the Settings app. That is all the user should be concerned with: servicing his battery.
I can verify the shutting-down behavior. Here in MN when the the weather’s cold if I have my phone out too long and it gets cold, it will suddenly shut off, saying the battery died. Once it warms up, the battery’s fine. The situation’s a bit different, but essentially the same mechanism - the battery can’t put out as much current when it’s cold and the phone thinks it’s dead.
It’s amazing how quickly the lawyers get involved, though. Apple could have avoided all of this if they were more transparent and up front when they implemented it. Now they’re open to the argument that they were crippling the phones and they just created a plausible explanation.
The problem is that we no longer live in a society where facts, reason, or rational explanations matter. Personal beliefs and perceptions, no matter how naive or subjective, are the only reality. Apple can try to explain this with sound engineering, scientific, and customer value principles and logic but it will not change the minds of those who have already decided that this incident fully confirms everything negative they already believe about Apple. There are many commenters who now attribute every perceived performance degradation on their device to be an intentional act by Apple to trick them into buying a new device, regardless of the health of their battery. Unfortunately it all starts at the top and there is no cure in sight.
Here are my facts: My wife iPhone 5S on iOS 7 after 4 years runs as smooth as my iPhone 7 on iOS 10! I was very close to update the software on her 5S recently but glad I didn't. Based on my experience I'm inclined to believe what I suspected of apple for a while: they are shameless lying hypocrites and charlatans like most if not all large corporations!
Dude, more new software ,means more complex code, with more features & animations.Your Hardware is not upgraded, like your software. So , generally your phone will slow down with the progression of time. But personally I found little difference between iOS 6 iPhone 5 & iOS 10.3.2 iPhone 5
Why do so many older models get the latest software? So Apple can put up a slide showing most of the install base on the latest software and make fun of Google’s so-called fragmentation? What good is being on the latest software if it makes your phone experience not great? I know Apple says it’s worked on making the latest software better for older devices but every year Ars Technics tests this out and the experience is still not that great.
My iPad Mini 2 (A7) performs better under iOS 11 than your iPad Pro with almost no lag. I turned off many features, notably transparency, motion, many of background app refreshes; disabled recent apps on the dock, disabled video overlay, keeping only a couple of Safari tabs open... I always close unused apps via app switcher, closing them releases significant memory. I suggest to do the same on your iPad Pro.
What I mean, owners of older devices can optimize the operating system along with their usage patterns and can still benefit from the deeper enhancements brought by the latest versions and my iPad Mini 2 battery lasts longer under iOS 11. OS X Leopard 10.5.8 still keeps an iBook G4 (a 2005 PowerPC machine) functioning as a media server via iTunes Home Sharing. I am very glad Apple supports older devices with the new OS releases and this is one reason many people commits to Apple. And Apple doesn't force anyone to install the latest OS version. If the government would keep your five years old car out of traffic you would be enraged. That is the point.
Who wants to have to do all that? No Apple doesn’t force OS upgrades but I’m sure like my 75 year old mother a lot of people do when they get the notification. They’re not thinking oh if I do this it will slow down my device. They’re thinking if Apple is telling me new software is available I better update.
Do not bully your mother for updating, she does the right thing. Update is essential. Slowness and optimizations are secondary issues. Anyone can help your mother with optimizations, the neighbour's kid, the nearby PC dealer. Thanks to the update her device remains fully functional, without disrupting her Netflix, Facetime, WhatsApp or whatever.
Nothing is as mesmerizing as watching some die-hard Apple users attempt to prop up the company's lack of transparency knowing that if this had been Alphabet or Microsoft (or anyone else that ISN'T Apple), those same people would be verbally slicing and dicing their way to holiday bliss in this forum.
Oh...and before you claim I'm a Windows plant or a Google apologist...I typed this while wearing an Apple Watch and posted it from a Mac mini sitting inches from an iPhone 7 Plus in a home with a 2015 MacBook Pro, three Apple TV's with a bunch of old, spent Apple boxes in the corner of the basement. I love the company...but I HATE that a third party and customers ALWAYS have to drag out of them an admission of being too secretive, of producing a substandard product or of being just plain wrong.
May you have a Merry Christmas and the happiest 2018 possible.
So many questions: Why didn't Apple mention the intentional slowdown when the iPhones were announced at their lavish rollout? Why didn't Apple release their iPhones pre-throttled so that they always ran at the same rate? Does Samsung or other cell phone makers throttle their phones over time? Was that giant speed chart they always show when they roll out a new iPhone completely BS? What does it look like when the phone is throttled? Exactly how much does the iPhone get throttled over time by percent? Does it still get throttled when plugged into a power supply and if so, why? How much of Apple's sales are due to their puffed up, fake performance numbers?
When my iPhome 6 was 18 months old and still under AppleCare it started spontaneously dying when the battery remaining was 40% and I did something like shoot a video. Apple wouldn’t replace the battery because I wasn’t on the current OS and because the battery did not “test” out of spec according to the Genius Bar. Sure enough months later when I finally gave up my jailbreak and updated iOS the sudden shutdowns stopped too, but now the phone was slow as heck.... so... I replaced it.
This is the key thing people are missing. Is this isn’t just 4 year old phones. Let’s talk about what an old battery is... in my case it should have been a manufactures defect under warranty replacement at 18 months and wasn’t because the software crippled it instead. .
Phones should operate normally, full power, for at least their warranty duration, don’t you think?
So my thought on your last question is: my car doesn’t throttle my engine when I am low on gas. To my knowledge, my MacBook doesn’t throttle my chips as the battery is aging. What makes the iPhone so special?
I bought a device that is expected to produce a certain level of preformance, I expect it to continue that level at all times unless otherwise told. Why cover up a failing battery? If it’s a serious problem, I will replace it, as most consumers would once it’s condition is poor. There is no defending Apple on this one.
Not sure how big of a deal this is but the iOS versions here lately have been horrid on my iPhone 7. So bad, I am restarting or hard restarting my phone at least once per day, often multiple times per day. It’s like using a beta iOS or a Samsung. Really annoying. Generally it happens when using built in Apple apps too. Anyone else having a similar experience?
No, but it may have a "limp home" mode in the event of some kind of problem. That's what this is. And, in the case of a depleted battery in at least the white plastic MacBooks, and MacBook Pros before 2010 for sure, and possibly more models, if it isn't capable of delivering enough power, or is not installed, the machine clocks itself down to properly operate.
I'm certainly not defending Apple's lack of response to the situation. However, there are chemical and physical realities associated with batteries, and the throttling in response to a depleted one is fine. Just not the lack of disclosure.
Again, the choices here are a crashing phone that shuts off randomly, or one that is slower and still works.
Where exactly those disclosures should be would be my question. There might be numerous fairly arcane situations that would need to be disclosed, if such disclosure is truly required.
In the previous article, about the first lawsuit, a commenter pointed out that the OS throttles the clock speed to prevent thermal issues. Should that be disclosed? Where, and when?
What about other issues that affect performance? Running 32-bit apps, back before they were culled? Should that have been disclosed at the time of a sale of an iPhone 5S, 6, 6S?
How about the minor difference in processor performance between the Samsung and TMSC A10’s? Should that have been printed on the back of each iPhone, like the P, (Philadelphia), D (Denver) or S (San Francisco) mint marks on old pennies?
Then there’s the Intel versus Qualcomm modem speeds. Again, print that on the back of the iPhone too? Let users make a choice?
The fact is, Apple doesn’t sell their iPhones on those specs. They don’t promise or represent that the CPU will always run at a certain clock speed. They do represent that each new CPU is faster than the previous generations, but that’s a relative comparison. If two generations of CPU are each downclocked under similar conditions (to prevent a thermal issue, for example), then the relative performance claims will remain true. The fact Apple doesn’t make a claim about absolute performance is, in my opinion, why these lawsuits will fail.
Where is it that Apple should be so transparent regarding all these esoteric device management issues?
Dialog box, the first time it happens.
"Your battery is depleted and is affecting device performance. Make an appointment at a Genius Bar for testing and possible replacement."
Done.
It already says that in the Settings app: Your battery need to be serviced. Better than a one time dialog since it is permanently there in the Settings app.
And once that notice appears, what you need is service, not transparency.
Yeah, I know, but as this issue is proving that some users can be really dumb about it, I think the main screen without delving into a menu is appropriate.
And, let's be perfectly clear about this. This isn't a binary on/off toggle. This isn't a "Well, your battery is X depleted, so we're going to constantly cripple it." This is a transient situation, and only happens when the phone is under heavy load, and the battery can't keep up the voltage.
Well, Apple doesn't design its devices and operating systems for really dumbs. There are Android and Windoze for thoze. Apple designs for the most sophisticated users.
Of course Apple's iPhones are designed for dummies. That's part of the attraction, they are supposed to be so simple to use that any Grandma or 6 year old can use 'em straight out'a the box. It's those Android techies with the rootable phones with the supposedly hard to understand and use devices. Apple's iPhones are touted as near idiot-proof..."They Just Work"
If you're looking for a good, honest story on the iPhone throttling issue, how about this?
It's admitted that Apple throttles the clock speed on devices with older batteries when peak load is high... but all I hear is about how the phone is "slower."
Fine. But how much slower? What's the real world impact? Does my game drop from 30/fps to 29/fps? 20? 10? Does an app that took 2 seconds to launch now take 2.25? Or 10?
If the phone runs normally except at rare occasions during peak loads, just how is this an issue? If it runs slower all the time... then how much?
Facts would be good to have here, other that random comments about how my old phone is, "gawdalful slow."
The best evidence available right now is benchmarks which show the performance of the phones drop in ranges from 10% to 60%. Actual real-world impact is going to vary significantly from user-to-user depending on a variety of factors including temperature, background apps, network connection quality, screen brightness, caching, etc. Opening the same app or playing the same game may take 2 seconds on one phone and 10 seconds on another.
The argument the phone runs normally except during peak loads is a little misleading. Effectively the throttling is putting a cap on what the phone is allowed do that is less than what it was designed for. If the phone is operating at or below what it artificially thinks it is capable of then naturally the user won't see any difference. It is when the user needs all the performance that they run into the cap. It is an issue because it either takes the user longer to accomplish the same task as before or even possibly the performance is degraded enough where the app doesn't work as needed at all. For example, users are complaining it is taking an extremely long time to load the camera app and they are missing photo opportunities because of it.
Well, Apple doesn't design its devices and operating systems for really dumbs. There are Android and Windoze for thoze. Apple designs for the most sophisticated users.
Uh, whether you want to admit it or not, most Apple operating systems are to computing devices what America Online was to the Internet. Whether the user is "sophisticated" enough to use the device has nothing to do with it. Apple users don't want computers; they want toasters. They want simple. That simplicity is part of their appeal. If you can't admit that, then you're gonna have a real hard time keeping up in a discussion about what makes Apple successful or not.
Nothing is as mesmerizing as watching some die-hard Apple users attempt to prop up the company's lack of transparency knowing that if this had been Alphabet or Microsoft (or anyone else that ISN'T Apple), those same people would be verbally slicing and dicing their way to holiday bliss in this forum.
Oh...and before you claim I'm a Windows plant or a Google apologist...I typed this while wearing an Apple Watch and posted it from a Mac mini sitting inches from an iPhone 7 Plus in a home with a 2015 MacBook Pro, three Apple TV's with a bunch of old, spent Apple boxes in the corner of the basement. I love the company...but I HATE that a third party and customers ALWAYS have to drag out of them an admission of being too secretive, of producing a substandard product or of being just plain wrong.
May you have a Merry Christmas and the happiest 2018 possible.
As soon as some Apple users buy Apple stock, they turn into a$$holes who would support Apple doing anything, regardless of the resulting user experience. Hard to understand how people can get like that. I guess they also overreact to Android trolls. If they had their way, you'd reboot your iPhone daily, restore to factory settings each time an update comes out, and be grateful for the privilege, without as much as a complaint. It's a shameful display. Ironically, if it was for them, the company would devolve into another Microsoft Windows experience in the 90s. It's already starting to, anyway. Regardless of the reasons behind it, this whole thing with iOS updates slowing phones down and messing up the battery life of previous devices is getting old and tired, and unless we the users make noise about it, it won't get any better.
Well duh, your battery is going to lose potency after a few years, and that will affect your iPhone's performance. But wait, since Apple has tons of cash and you can't scrape together $79 for a battery replacement, the obvious answer is to sue. And of course, Apple is in a no-win situation regardless of what it does.
Scenario 1: Apple does not slow down performance on a 5-year-old battery, and your iPhone shuts down periodically. LAWSUIT!
Scenario 2: Apple does slow down performance so your iPhone does not shut down. LAWSUIT!
Scenario 3: Users apply some common sense (so you know already this ain't gonna happen) and replace their old battery. Problem solved.
This is why I don't like Apple. They think they know what's best for their customers and also they have an amazing talent to cover their deficiencies up and repackage it to make them look like they are positive improvement. I gotta give a big applause to their PR team. Amazing people who can sell ice to Eskimos.
Any person with some brain knows the Li batteries lose it's charge capacities after certain number of charges, like 500 times or so then slowly after that it only charges up to 90 80 70 and so on then at some point if you can't stand less battery capacities then you get new batteries. Same with any rechargeable tools or electronic devices. It's a given fact.
I buy androids only because I don't like Apple's business philosophy. Regardless I understand both Iphones and Android phones will face the same battery degradation over time.
I had HTC, LG V20, GS3, Note 2, ZTE, 5 of GS7 Edges, and several tablets and notebooks from different manufacturers. Some removable batteries and some built in. My biggest worry about GS7 Edge was that when the battery gets old it is not as easy as the previous phones where I could simply replace the battery on my own besides the convenience of swapping batteries when the batteries dead.
Apple charges quite more than it's competitors because they claim it's premium phone. And they list many things as it's features but the thing they boast most is it's faster apu and their customers buy the phones for that reason among the others.
Well, I would think if it's a premium phone and they know the limitation of the battery technology they would design their apu so that it would be robust enough to operate even when the battery level is low or charge current is low. But they didn't.
So now customers complain that the phone shuts off at 40% battery level after using a couple of years or so then they throttle the apu speed so it does not shut off as frequent yet somewhat usable for most tasks just slower. "To protect the components and for the better user experience"
And they didn't let their customers know what's going on until they cannot keep it quiet anymore.
I don't know about the owners of other products but with me I never once had issues with phone shutting off until the battery level is 2 or even 1 percent especially with Samsungs. The screen might be really really dim below 5% battery level but kept going at full throttle. Yes the battery was draining faster than if it was throttled down but I wouldn't like it even if it had throttle down mode. I just control my use of the phone. Just use less if I need to prolong the battery time. But when I use it I want 100% performance out of it.
Many times I used my phones until the battery level gets down to zero over and over when I charge the phones then none of them stopped working! They always get charged back to 100% and so far there isn't a phone that became unusable because I used them until battery drains completely.
So I was kind of scratching my head "Iphone shuts down to protect the phone itself at 40% or so? So they slow down the apu if the battery gets old and hold less charge?" So what's the point of paying extra $$$ for fast apu phone if you don't get that full throttle speed after a while. To me regardless of how you want to look at it if it shuts off at 40% then it should say 0% because the phone does not work anymore at that point.
Well, if the Apple disclosed that after a couple of years of use their phones will shut off at 40% battery level to save the phones then far less people would buy them and that also a proof that there is a serious design flaw that low battery/voltage level can damage the phone whereas other phones don't.
Back to their marketing. Apple is the master of positioning of their products. They are genius at marketing and PRs. But I think they reach the point where those cannot carry them any farther. Like all the other big companies Apple is following Nokia's footstep and it's ironic that it was Apple who brought down Nokia.
It would have been fine if they admitted that with the older batteries the performance can be degraded and gave the choice to the customers full throttle all the way or less throttle for longer usage per battery charge instead of made that choice and shoved it down their customers throats. Pure arrogance......
But seriously the Iphones did shut off at 40% battery level?????? smh I don't see any premium-ness in it.
Android phones will never have this problem. Because you can’t update to the next major revision of the OS, and the phones are useless before the battery gets old. How convenient, eh?
My Android phone is stuck on Android 6 but the battery, after two years of nightly fast charging and occasional RAV Power top ups is giving me absolutely stellar performance. Amazing.
On the other hand, my iPad Mini 2 is stuck on iOS 8 for Apple hardware, OS and ITunes reasons. Battery life is again stellar.
My wife has an iPad air 2, iOS 11 (which Stealth updated itself) and has utterly abysmal battery life.
The timing of this issue is terrible for Apple. In a little over two weeks Huawei is going to formally announce it is landing officially in the US with its latest SuperCharge laden, reverse charge capable, TüV Rheinland certified, AI controlled mega batteries on its latest flagships.
I would imagine Huawei marketing will have a field day with the battery related problems Apple has right now.
Once the cause of the issues was determined, I think Apple's response (short of a recall if there really is some kind of defect) was correct but this has already made it onto national prime-time news and once that happens you are on a hiding to nothing.
I think Apple just has to be transparent about the battery lifespan and tell users that on one hand they can expect updates for up to 5 years and on the other hand to expect the device to slow down as the battery gets older and the OS acts to maximize battery life. Being up front about it would have helped. Now Apple has to do damage control and the haters out there will just say that Apple wants people to buy a new phone. Offering battery replacement more obviously would help.
Battery replacement has been available for some time for $79.
Agree about more transparency, though.
Apple should do what they did with the Mac OS on the MacBook Pro where it monitors the battery cycle and apply that to the iOS. Have a software that is integrated into the iOS where it can monitor the health, cycle of charge and discharge of the battery. I think a class action law suit is a bit extreme, but Apple could have made more aware of the matter before people found out on their own, where as then Apple had to confessed to the situation when it was to late and made them look bad even though that may have not been their attention. Technology is expensive for anyone so I personally feel that whatever the hardware is that it should have software that can tell us the health of the device and give as warnings when something is wrong.
Tech news sites, infected with mostly trolls these days, run around with their hair on fire with their reporting. Some start to see dollar signs and file lawsuits. In a few days this will all go away and on we will go on to the next trumped up scandal. A few more months or years down the road we will hear the lawsuits were dismissed with prejudice because there was no ‘crime’ committed by Apple. By then no one will care and it will be just a mention in a blog somewhere. You know you’ve seen these scenarios before. Anybody talking about Samsung’s Note 7 scandal these days? Any news on the lawsuits filed over that? What ever happened to the lawsuits filed over Antenna-gate? Will this time be any different? Many are rambling on about Apple’s reputation and transparency and how this is the end,,, finally the end of Apple. Trolls are having wet dreams over this just like Apple fanboys did over the Samsung Note 7 explosions.
I don't think that this will blow over so quickly. Android fans will be bringing it up at the Christmas table this holiday and fan the flames with more people.
Apple has already fallen behind Amazon as the most Trusted Company in America. This is just going to weaken Apple's public standing further. I'm sure Jeff Bezos is thinking about making an Alexa phone right now if it hasn't been already started (as much to compete with Google as Apple).
This won't blow over until Cook appears in front of a Congressional Committee and say's Apple is sorry and will make everyone good.
LOL it won’t go that far, but you never know... Congress wastes time on so many baffling things they don’t even bother reading their own ‘tax reform bill’.
Apple handled this like a purely technical problem. If the reboot problem was a result max performance drawing to much power from an aging battery, then reducing performance fixes the problem. That’s true, but also so wrong. I wonder if the battery decision ever made it up to Cooks level. I have to much respect for Cook to assume he’d make such a stupid decision...
Comments
Which is?
Except it is operating when the battery level and charge are low. It’s operating better than the ones that don’t throttle. How can you even say this?
And probably damage the battery further.
Well, I agree...but I that really has nothing to do with me. That's the media for you. As for the consumer, I'm not arguing it's a terrible feature. I'm saying the implementation and lack of transparency are major problems.
Why not both? Because this is Apple's benevolence not your right.
Because Apple doesn't slow down a crippled battery device every time. That happens when you push the processor or radio to its limits, when it is expected that they draw peak power and the battery is expected to not supply that peak power. Do not push your processor to its limits and you won't notice any slowdown. So why bother the user with a temporary and cautionary technique? The user is already alerted with the battery notice in the Settings app. That is all the user should be concerned with: servicing his battery.
It’s amazing how quickly the lawyers get involved, though. Apple could have avoided all of this if they were more transparent and up front when they implemented it. Now they’re open to the argument that they were crippling the phones and they just created a plausible explanation.
Oh...and before you claim I'm a Windows plant or a Google apologist...I typed this while wearing an Apple Watch and posted it from a Mac mini sitting inches from an iPhone 7 Plus in a home with a 2015 MacBook Pro, three Apple TV's with a bunch of old, spent Apple boxes in the corner of the basement. I love the company...but I HATE that a third party and customers ALWAYS have to drag out of them an admission of being too secretive, of producing a substandard product or of being just plain wrong.
May you have a Merry Christmas and the happiest 2018 possible.
The argument the phone runs normally except during peak loads is a little misleading. Effectively the throttling is putting a cap on what the phone is allowed do that is less than what it was designed for. If the phone is operating at or below what it artificially thinks it is capable of then naturally the user won't see any difference. It is when the user needs all the performance that they run into the cap. It is an issue because it either takes the user longer to accomplish the same task as before or even possibly the performance is degraded enough where the app doesn't work as needed at all. For example, users are complaining it is taking an extremely long time to load the camera app and they are missing photo opportunities because of it.
On the other hand, my iPad Mini 2 is stuck on iOS 8 for Apple hardware, OS and ITunes reasons. Battery life is again stellar.
My wife has an iPad air 2, iOS 11 (which Stealth updated itself) and has utterly abysmal battery life.
The timing of this issue is terrible for Apple. In a little over two weeks Huawei is going to formally announce it is landing officially in the US with its latest SuperCharge laden, reverse charge capable, TüV Rheinland certified, AI controlled mega batteries on its latest flagships.
I would imagine Huawei marketing will have a field day with the battery related problems Apple has right now.
Once the cause of the issues was determined, I think Apple's response (short of a recall if there really is some kind of defect) was correct but this has already made it onto national prime-time news and once that happens you are on a hiding to nothing.