Intel 'Titan Ridge' Thunderbolt 3 chipset allows for 8K displays, better USB-C peripheral ...

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited July 2018
A new Thunderbolt 3 chipset has arrived called "Titan Ridge" that supports not only DisplayPort 1.4, but it also provides to vendors the ability to allow peripherals to fall back on USB 3.1 speeds if not connected to a Thunderbolt 3 host.




The new Titan Ridge chipset allows for a pair of DisplayPort 1.4 signals to be embedded into the connection. At present, Alpine Ridge in the 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pro allow for a pair of DisplayPort 1.2 connections.

As a result, the new controller allows for a 8K display to run at 30Hz without compression, or at 60Hz when Display Stream Compression is used. However, the bandwidth is still limited to 40Gbit/sec, so two 5K monitors are still not able to be connected in a daisy-chain configuration.

Full use of the DisplayPort 1.4 protocol needs a discrete GPU. Integrated GPUs are limited to DisplayPort 1.2, and cannot take full advantage of the new controller.

One of the new Thunderbolt 3 controller chips available from Intel is intended for peripherals, and would allow use cases like a Thunderbolt 3 RAID to connect to a USB 3.1 type C host at the slower speed allowed by USB 3.1. At present, with Alpine Ridge, the Thunderbolt 3 RAID wouldn't connect at all.

Existing Alpine Ridge peripherals are compatible with Titan Ridge devices, and vice versa. However, a Thunderbolt 3 chain appears to be limited to the least capable chip in the chain, so features like the ability to use a Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 peripheral at USB 3.1 type C generation 2 10Gbit/sec speeds won't be supported on a mixed chain.

Intel has not published pricing of the new Titan Ridge controllers and intends to do so later in the quarter. Intel has been supporting the chipset in software since the summer of 2017, while still shipping Alpine Ridge controllers.

At present, none of Apple's computers, including the newly released iMac Pro, has a Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 controller. It is not clear if new Thunderbolt 3 cables will need to be purchased to support the DisplayPort 1.4 embed, and the USB 3.1 type C fall-back.

Intel has plans to loosen up licensing restrictions on Thunderbolt 3 in 2018, as well as make the technology royalty-free.

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 10
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,038member
    One of the new Thunderbolt 3 controller chips available from Intel is intended for peripherals, and would allow use cases like a Thunderbolt 3 RAID to connect to a USB 3.1 type C host at the slower speed allowed by USB 3.1. At present, with Alpine Ridge, the Thunderbolt 3 RAID wouldn't connect at all.

    Mike, doesn't that confirm the question I had a few days about about TB peripherals eventually being backwards compatible with USB-C devices that don't support TB?


    Reference: https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/comment/3022447/#Comment_3022447

    edited January 2018
  • Reply 2 of 10
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 3,232member
    Perhaps the 14- and 18-core iMac Pros will get it, or the yet-to-be-announced Mac Pro revision.
    I doubt new cables will be required--the interfaces are still limited to 40 Gbps of TB3.
  • Reply 3 of 10
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,922administrator
    Soli said:
    One of the new Thunderbolt 3 controller chips available from Intel is intended for peripherals, and would allow use cases like a Thunderbolt 3 RAID to connect to a USB 3.1 type C host at the slower speed allowed by USB 3.1. At present, with Alpine Ridge, the Thunderbolt 3 RAID wouldn't connect at all.

    Mike, doesn't that confirm the question I had a few days about about TB peripherals eventually being backwards compatible with USB-C devices that don't support TB?


    Reference: https://forums.appleinsider.com/discussion/comment/3022447/#Comment_3022447

    It does indeed.
  • Reply 4 of 10
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,922administrator

    cpsro said:
    Perhaps the 14- and 18-core iMac Pros will get it, or the yet-to-be-announced Mac Pro revision.
    I doubt new cables will be required--the interfaces are still limited to 40 Gbps of TB3.
    Maybe. Active TB3 cables have transceiver chips. Compatibility may be an issue, and Intel went out of its way to not answer the question at CES.
    xzudysamoria
  • Reply 5 of 10
    anomeanome Posts: 1,545member
    Full use of the DisplayPort 1.4 protocol needs a discrete GPU. Integrated GPUs are limited to DisplayPort 1.2, and cannot take full advantage of the new controller.

    Does this include the AMD GPUs on the previously announced G-Series processors? I would expect those to support DisplayPort 1.4, but you never know.

    [EDIT] Never mind, on another reading of the story about the G-Series processors, I see that the AMD GPUs don't replace the Intel graphics, so presumably they will be able to have DisplayPort 1.4.

    edited January 2018
  • Reply 6 of 10
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    Though it shouldn't surprise me, I'm a bit surprised that there are currently royalties involved. I missed that somewhere. It can't be helping with the adoption of the format... We really need what this does. They shouldn't make it any more expensive to include than USB. I thought they wanted the latest version of thunderbolt to basically become a standard pipe that everything else, including USB, is to be passed through.
    1983
  • Reply 7 of 10
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,930member
    dysamoria said:
    Though it shouldn't surprise me, I'm a bit surprised that there are currently royalties involved. I missed that somewhere. It can't be helping with the adoption of the format... We really need what this does. They shouldn't make it any more expensive to include than USB. I thought they wanted the latest version of thunderbolt to basically become a standard pipe that everything else, including USB, is to be passed through.
    Yeah I think Intel was just trying to cash in when really all it did was keep companies from making TB3 peripherals. Hopefully now you'll see the market explode. TB3 is a great technology. 
    watto_cobra1983
  • Reply 8 of 10
    evilutionevilution Posts: 1,399member
    Isn't it about time we ditched high speed copper transfer cables and finally move to multi-parallel optical cables?
    Thunderbolt was originally conceived as an optical connection and was called LightPeak but was reduced to copper only to save money and allow a power run.

    You could run a dedicated copper power connection alongside the optical and have the best of both worlds.

    Thunderbolt 3 is claiming 40 Gbits a second which is already too slow for some people using multiple 5K monitors and external storage/RAID.

    Consider then that a Dutch team moved 255 Tbits a second over a single optical cable back in 2014. Way over 5,500 times faster than TB3.

    500 Gbits over 3 parallel optical cables would be very easy and would set us on the right path for the next 20 years.
  • Reply 9 of 10
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,475member
    anome said:
    Full use of the DisplayPort 1.4 protocol needs a discrete GPU. Integrated GPUs are limited to DisplayPort 1.2, and cannot take full advantage of the new controller.

    Does this include the AMD GPUs on the previously announced G-Series processors? I would expect those to support DisplayPort 1.4, but you never know.

    [EDIT] Never mind, on another reading of the story about the G-Series processors, I see that the AMD GPUs don't replace the Intel graphics, so presumably they will be able to have DisplayPort 1.4.

    Speaking of the G-series I wonder why Intel couldn't do the same graft with Thunderbolt controller and AMD GPU for an in monitor eGPU solution. Sure make an interest option for Thunderbolt display pro in iMacPro matching space grey.

  • Reply 10 of 10
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 6,922administrator
    evilution said:
    Isn't it about time we ditched high speed copper transfer cables and finally move to multi-parallel optical cables?
    Thunderbolt was originally conceived as an optical connection and was called LightPeak but was reduced to copper only to save money and allow a power run.

    You could run a dedicated copper power connection alongside the optical and have the best of both worlds.

    Thunderbolt 3 is claiming 40 Gbits a second which is already too slow for some people using multiple 5K monitors and external storage/RAID.

    Consider then that a Dutch team moved 255 Tbits a second over a single optical cable back in 2014. Way over 5,500 times faster than TB3.

    500 Gbits over 3 parallel optical cables would be very easy and would set us on the right path for the next 20 years.
    I think this has more to do with consumers than anything else. The bend radius before breakage on optical is no joke, and they won't survive cable drawers or bins.
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