Apple responds to investor criticism over heavy smartphone use by children, says parental ...

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 80
    philboogiephilboogie Posts: 7,377member
    nht said:
    sflocal said:
    The excuse some parents make about the difficulty of configuring the child's iDevice to micromanage what they do on it is at the minimum, ridiculous.

    Just take the damn thing away.  It's really that easy.  Just... take it away.  Child has a tantrum?  So what.  Child screams?  So what.  Eventually they will tire.  Harping on Apple just means you lost control of your child, or better yet... your child has YOU wrapped around their finger.

    Apparently this adults forgot what they used to do as kids before iPhones are around.  I remembered playing outside, using my imagination, drawing, etc... Now, you use an iPhone as a babysitter, and blame Apple for it.

    Don't even try to conjure and excuse.  Admit it.  You failed.
    Precisely.  Even before the ‘just take it away’ comes ‘don’t simply hand it to the kid as a pacifier in the first place.’  Parents should plan their kids’ use of addictive technology. 
    Said by people without kids or in areas where teachers and schools use smartphones as part of the classroom.  Everything is online and in google docs.  Kids meet via hangouts and work on projects.  Resources are mostly online.  Teachers send emails and messages regarding homework and assignments. 

    Everything social is via social media enabled by smartphones.  Not having a phone is a negative for middle schoolers and a serious social handicap for high school kids.

    /shrug

    i use screentime which works really well on android and abysmally on iOS because Apple support for this sort of thing sucks.  I can disable apps during the school day or at night and still allow kids to message, call and other basic activities. I can track websites and app usage patterns.

    i can block problematic apps, add additional time, pause all phone activity, and reward good behavior because it provides fine grain control over the user experience and it works really really well.

    but not on iOS.  So the carrot and stick approach here is if you get good grades and don’t piss me off I get you an iPhone. Get C’s or play on your phone too much and it’s an Android for you.

    but feel free to continue to be sanctimonious asshats and judge people on things you clearly have no fucking clue about. 
    Excellent rebuttal! Cannot understand what's up with all the folks say Apple isn't to blame. Just take a look at the 'Restrictions' on iOS - it's so limited it hardly has any function at all. Well, it functions, but at the most basic level there is. And they haven't expanded or enhanced it in any way since its inception. In short, /Settings/General/Restrictions suck.
    GeorgeBMacmuthuk_vanalingamAppleUfmyIjoshbisharlomedia
  • Reply 22 of 80
    Have you looked at Apple Configurator 2?
    Unfortunately Config isn’t working reliably.
    Many issues. Also I believe many of the suggestions listed in this thead should by now be built in to iOS. 
    Curious to know more. Please elaborate.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 80
    adamcadamc Posts: 547member
    My greatest guilt is I give too much leeway to my children in how and when they use their smartphones.

    It is up to me to stop them and not the device as a parent.

    And you know what they said about guns......

    Well don't blame the manufacturers blame yourself for doing a lousy job as a parent.
    radarthekatgeorgie01edredwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 80
    adm1adm1 Posts: 638member
    love the responses from people who clearly don't have kids themselves, or are those hippy/religious/regimental types.

    it's no different to letting kids have access to an amiga/commodore in the 80s, a nintendo/sega in the 90s, or an internet-connected computer in the 00s etc. etc.
    I'd wager most parents are not as technically clued up as their kids when it comes to new technology so some would definitely benefit from greater parental controls in iOS.

    I personally have no issues with my kids usage on iPad etc. I control which apps are on it, have disabled any purchasing and have a content blocker active on it, my oldest is only 5 but he's already a year ahead of his classmates in maths and actually sees the educational apps as fun and a reward. 
    joshbishjony0
  • Reply 25 of 80
    Apple should simply tell Jana and CalSTRS to bug*** off. They’re welcome to sell their Apple holdings, if they wish. 

    As as an aside, I wonder who is worse for kids: some of the union teachers in CA, or Apple? Jana Partners with their money-grubbing ways, or Apple?
  • Reply 26 of 80
    Apple has done a great job of providing these tools for a long time. And if you want even further help, there are tools for that. Internet filtering? There's really only one good way to do it - monitored filtering through a third party. 

    Parents need to PARENT. Apple can't do that for them. Set rules. Actually take the time to teach your kids and instill proper values - heck, MODEL those values for them! And then take the time to enforce the rules you set in a firm and loving manner. Taking the time to set iOS restrictions is a small part, but it's available and works well. 
    radarthekat2old4funwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 27 of 80
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 3,179member
    A friend of mine keeps the iPads locked away until the homework’s done, and the kids are only allowed to use them in the living room, not their bedrooms. 

    I asked him if he’d heard of parental controls, and he said, “Yes, you’re talking to them.”

    He then asked me if any other parental control could prevent his kids being bullied on line, or prevent them from being involved in the bullying of other kids. 

    I said, “Probably not.”

    He asked if another parental control could tell if the person they’re chatting to online is a really a fourteen-year-old, or a thirty-eight-year-old pervert. 

    “Er, no.”

    “So, I’m probably the best parental control money can buy.”

    He did have a point. 

    Parental controls on devices are okay to a point, but the problem isn’t usually the site url: it’s the content and the people on it. Reading some of the posts here, I’m wondering if people are relying on parental controls too much. 

    radarthekatanantksundaramphilboogiewatto_cobrajony0badmonk
  • Reply 28 of 80
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 1,731member
    This is for homes where kids call the shots. Parents who can not control their kids should be ashamed to call themselves parents.
    Any parent who claims they have total control of their kid is a foolish parent suffering from self inflicted delusion, not a good one.
    nhtmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 29 of 80
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 1,731member
    sirozha said:
    This is absolutely crucial. Apple has done very little in this area. Apple got out of the router game, but even when they did actively develop AirPort Extreme, there was no way to limit internet usage by the total number of hours for each user. You could set the time periods for access but not the total number of hours. However, kids could just switch to LTE and bypass all the restrictions. 

    Apple should definitely come up with parental controls that encompass all of its devices and allow parents to administer controls from one web-based portal. Additionally, content filtering should be an option. Maybe all children’s internet activity should be proxied via the Apple’s servers that carry out filtering. Maybe the filtering rules should be pushed to end devices. Either way, there should be a way to restrict where kids can go on the web if Apple’s devices are used. 

    You won’t get this if you are still living in your parents’ basement, so don’t bother to respond. Get back to me when your kids start reaching the age of Internet use if Apple hasn’t developed content filtering tools by then.  
    'content filtering should be an option"
    ... It has been for quite awhile.   Screen shots are provided in the article.  

    Admittedly it is far, real far, from bulletproof.  But, that has less to do with Apple than it does the media industry....  YouTube is a prime example:  it has a ton of stuff that appeal to pre-school and grade school aged kids, but it also has R and X rated stuff.   Apple's only choice for that app is a "Yes or No" for the app itself...
    radarthekat
  • Reply 30 of 80
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 1,731member
    sflocal said:
    The excuse some parents make about the difficulty of configuring the child's iDevice to micromanage what they do on it is at the minimum, ridiculous.

    Just take the damn thing away.  It's really that easy.  Just... take it away.  Child has a tantrum?  So what.  Child screams?  So what.  Eventually they will tire.  Harping on Apple just means you lost control of your child, or better yet... your child has YOU wrapped around their finger.

    Apparently this adults forgot what they used to do as kids before iPhones are around.  I remembered playing outside, using my imagination, drawing, etc... Now, you use an iPhone as a babysitter, and blame Apple for it.

    Don't even try to conjure and excuse.  Admit it.  You failed.
    That's a very simple solution.   Actually, over-simplified.   And, like all over-simplified solutions it sounds good and makes good sound-bites, but fails to deal with reality.
    muthuk_vanalingamAI_lias
  • Reply 31 of 80
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 1,731member
    Why is it that people blame the firms, that make the products, they purchase for their kids, when they don’t like the way their kids use them?  Why is it always the others’ fault win your kids misbehave?

    When did personal responsibility stop being ours, and belong to someone else?
    There is a difference between "blaming" and saying "You can do better"  or, "You need to do better".

    Unfortunately, in today's black and white world, that distinction is often ignored...
    beowulfschmidtmuthuk_vanalingamjony0
  • Reply 32 of 80
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 1,731member
    rob53 said:
    It's about time parents take back the responsibility in raising their kids from all the people they dumped it on, like teachers and now, computer companies. People are too quick to label anything detrimental to kids. All the other things that are detrimental to kids, like tobacco, alcohol, drugs, guns, are discussed then tossed aside because they all require parental control to implement properly and parents just aren't willing to do this anymore. I grew up in a time where we had to respect our parents and what they said. Now, kids just blow parents and other adults off without even thinking about it. To blame this on iPhones and iPads is simply passing the buck and ignoring where the real fault lies--with parents who aren't willing to discuss things with their kids with the goal of compromising to allow the kid to learn things while also enjoying life. The bigger problem is parents who hate their life because they no longer get to do what they'd like to do and have just given up on helping their children grow into respectful adults.

    Yes, smartphone use is out of control in K-12 schools but instead of complaining about Apple I suggest you look in the mirror and see where the real problem lies. As for those of you who are responsible, keep it up.

    Even assuming that all of that is true, it still misses the mark because:   the combination of internet, social media and always-connected mobile devices have created a new danger to kids that didn't exist "back in the day" that you reminisce about.

    Calling for new tools to better deal with new threats is just common sense.
    muthuk_vanalingamAI_lias
  • Reply 33 of 80
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 1,731member
    JinTech said:
    Wait a minute...so parents are not doing their jobs to supervise their kids and the kids are using their devices and now they are suing Apple?
    Uhhh, no....
    .... But nice try!
    muthuk_vanalingamAI_lias
  • Reply 34 of 80
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,125moderator
    nht said:
    sflocal said:
    The excuse some parents make about the difficulty of configuring the child's iDevice to micromanage what they do on it is at the minimum, ridiculous.

    Just take the damn thing away.  It's really that easy.  Just... take it away.  Child has a tantrum?  So what.  Child screams?  So what.  Eventually they will tire.  Harping on Apple just means you lost control of your child, or better yet... your child has YOU wrapped around their finger.

    Apparently this adults forgot what they used to do as kids before iPhones are around.  I remembered playing outside, using my imagination, drawing, etc... Now, you use an iPhone as a babysitter, and blame Apple for it.

    Don't even try to conjure and excuse.  Admit it.  You failed.
    Precisely.  Even before the ‘just take it away’ comes ‘don’t simply hand it to the kid as a pacifier in the first place.’  Parents should plan their kids’ use of addictive technology. 
    Said by people without kids or in areas where teachers and schools use smartphones as part of the classroom.  Everything is online and in google docs.  Kids meet via hangouts and work on projects.  Resources are mostly online.  Teachers send emails and messages regarding homework and assignments. 

    Everything social is via social media enabled by smartphones.  Not having a phone is a negative for middle schoolers and a serious social handicap for high school kids.

    /shrug

    i use screentime which works really well on android and abysmally on iOS because Apple support for this sort of thing sucks.  I can disable apps during the school day or at night and still allow kids to message, call and other basic activities. I can track websites and app usage patterns.

    i can block problematic apps, add additional time, pause all phone activity, and reward good behavior because it provides fine grain control over the user experience and it works really really well.

    but not on iOS.  So the carrot and stick approach here is if you get good grades and don’t piss me off I get you an iPhone. Get C’s or play on your phone too much and it’s an Android for you.

    but feel free to continue to be sanctimonious asshats and judge people on things you clearly have no fucking clue about. 
    I’m pretty happy being a childless asshat with no clue.  Well, except the clue about not having kids I’m not willing to supervise and require technology to do that for me.  I got that clue a long time ago.  
    SpamSandwich
  • Reply 35 of 80
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 1,731member
    adamc said:
    My greatest guilt is I give too much leeway to my children in how and when they use their smartphones.

    It is up to me to stop them and not the device as a parent.

    And you know what they said about guns......

    Well don't blame the manufacturers blame yourself for doing a lousy job as a parent.
    Yes, if you're a "Good" parent, you don't need tools.   Instead, you should sit beside him 24x7 to make sure that he isn't misusing his device.  It's what any "Good" parent would do...   /s


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 36 of 80
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 1,731member
    Apple has done a great job of providing these tools for a long time. And if you want even further help, there are tools for that. Internet filtering? There's really only one good way to do it - monitored filtering through a third party. 

    Parents need to PARENT. Apple can't do that for them. Set rules. Actually take the time to teach your kids and instill proper values - heck, MODEL those values for them! And then take the time to enforce the rules you set in a firm and loving manner. Taking the time to set iOS restrictions is a small part, but it's available and works well. 
    "Apple has done a great job of providing these tools for a long time."
    Uhhh, no.
    As others have pointed out, Android and Windows are far ahead of Apple in this area.   Apple dropped the ball and needs to bring their product up to modern standards....

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 37 of 80
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 1,731member
    Rayz2016 said:
    A friend of mine keeps the iPads locked away until the homework’s done, and the kids are only allowed to use them in the living room, not their bedrooms. 

    I asked him if he’d heard of parental controls, and he said, “Yes, you’re talking to them.”

    He then asked me if any other parental control could prevent his kids being bullied on line, or prevent them from being involved in the bullying of other kids. 

    I said, “Probably not.”

    He asked if another parental control could tell if the person they’re chatting to online is a really a fourteen-year-old, or a thirty-eight-year-old pervert. 

    “Er, no.”

    “So, I’m probably the best parental control money can buy.”

    He did have a point. 

    Parental controls on devices are okay to a point, but the problem isn’t usually the site url: it’s the content and the people on it. Reading some of the posts here, I’m wondering if people are relying on parental controls too much. 

    You are right... Parental controls cannot take the place of a knowledgeable, caring, responsible parent.   But that doesn't mean that that same parent would not be able to do a better job with the right tools. 

    As others have pointed out, Apple has fallen behind in providing those tools.  Both Windows and Android have passed them by...

    That's not to nail Apple.  They never claimed to be perfect and they aren't.   But, they can do better and this open letter to the board is just a gentle kick in the pants to get moving...

    (BTW, the examples you site are good examples, but they only pertain to younger kids.  They become less and less applicable as the child gets older and more independent)
    muthuk_vanalingamAI_liasarlomediajony0
  • Reply 38 of 80
    This is for homes where kids call the shots. Parents who can not control their kids should be ashamed to call themselves parents.
    Any parent who claims they have total control of their kid is a foolish parent suffering from self inflicted delusion, not a good one.
    Stop exaggerating or taking things literally. 

    “Control their kids” =/= “total control”.
    georgie01tallest skiljony0
  • Reply 39 of 80
    very simple solution if you cant control your kids dont buy them an iphone or ipad
  • Reply 40 of 80
    nhtnht Posts: 4,005member
    This is for homes where kids call the shots. Parents who can not control their kids should be ashamed to call themselves parents.
    Any parent who claims they have total control of their kid is a foolish parent suffering from self inflicted delusion, not a good one.
    OMG that is so true.  

    Either the “control” is illusory or the enforcement draconian because at certain ages pushing the envelope is part of growing up.  

    Unless you live in a commune or restrict their friends there is only so much “control” you can enforce as opposed to provide parental influence in a hopefully positive way.

    And, as my wife hasn’t figured out, the more you oppose something the more that activity occurs when you aren’t looking.  Whether that’s video games, sex, drugs or music that annoys you...and of that set, video games and iPhone use is the least harmful unless you get hit by a car while not paying attention.
    muthuk_vanalingamGeorgeBMac
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