U.S. government questions Apple over iPhone slowdown debacle

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 73
    I think it’s not so bad. Because if Apple can make an important technical layman understand the reasoning and he can follow, this is the best that can happen in such a situation. 
  • Reply 22 of 73
    cornchip said:
    Oh my lord. Guess I shoul have seen this one coming...
    Many of us did, when we said that the will get worse before it gets better. (This is now happening). And that Apple will have to fundamentally change the way it rolls out software updates in the future. (This will happen). To much derision here. 

    Big tech — Facebook, Alphabet, now Apple — is the new big target. It was all inevitable. But we should honestly recognize that some of it is being brought on by a combination of their own arrogance and obtuseness. 
    feudalistmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 23 of 73
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    Here we go again, someone who knows next to nothing about how rechargeable batteries work. Why is it nobody cares about all their battery operated devices needing new batteries? We hardly ever hear about those but everyone is complaining about Apple's batteries as if they expect them to last forever. People need to get a grip and realize we're not using Star Trek era power sources that last longer but also don't last forever. As for Apple being required to give people free replacement batteries, if the courts demand this then I'm suing every manufacturer of battery operated devices for a lifetime supply of batteries, starting with my rechargeable batteries in my power tools. It's the same thing and don't get me started on Apple changing software to slow their devices down a bit to extend the life of the power in their batteries. This makes sense and people should appreciate it. As for the law firms going after Apple, I think Congress should investigate them and all the other ambulance chasing lawyers. Get rid of them

    There are many potential solutions to issues like this which range from increasing the battery capacity through to offering a guarantee on battery life (as opposed to focussing on cycles) and making the battery user replaceable etc.

    Solutions have to be reasonable too so it wouldn't make sense to put a one kilo battery onto a phone.


    Well written, I’m impressed. Thank you
  • Reply 24 of 73

    foggyhill said:
    feudalist said:
    foggyhill said:
    feudalist said:
    rob53 said:
    Here we go again, someone who knows next to nothing about how rechargeable batteries work. Why is it nobody cares about all their battery operated devices needing new batteries? We hardly ever hear about those but everyone is complaining about Apple's batteries as if they expect them to last forever.
    If forever means 2-3 years usefull life out of 800 to 1000 USD priced phone, yes we are not expecting but requesting that.
    Right... I suppose you throw a away your car instead of changing the tires, or the battery in your car
    no matter the usage, no matter the conditions you used / use them in huh bud.

    I like this analogy and I will take it little further. So, if it happens that manufacturer used special bolts only accesible in manufacturer aproved service stations, of course without any warranty whatsoever but you will loose warranty for car if you make change in nearest garage, and they are prone to sudden loss of pressure unrelated to use/abuse before they are fully worn-out, what would be your expectation about longevity?

    WTF are you even hell are you talking about. Are you servicing the god damn brakes yourself, most people don't even change their own god damn oil.

    There are no special bolts, you can in fact, if you are adept enough service your own god damn phone but most people won't want to because well don't want to and paying $80 god damn bucks ($30 now) to service your phone once every 2 years is trivial when you're paying $80+ bucks /monthly already for your service plan.

    Your phone at that time is still worth $350+ dollars, double what a average Android phone would go for.

    People with expensive watches $1000+ even get watchmakers to service their expensive sealed watches regularly (or it will stop working).

    Better build something else besides a damn strawman if you want me to feed your desperate need to whine and be "outraged".
    Groan. Here we go again. With stupid automobile analogies. 

    Stop. 
    feudalistmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 25 of 73
    ivanhivanh Posts: 224member
    It’s nothing about battery. 

    If new iOS version continues  to “optimise” on newest iPhone models, the older iPhone models will always be throttled.
    It’s about putting what processes into using only single-core instead of multi-core processing.  

    A redesign of iOS could revitalise much older iPhones, like Windows 10 on older PCs, if iOS were an independent business from Apple hardware!
  • Reply 26 of 73
    ivanh said:
    It’s nothing about battery. 

    If new iOS version continues  to “optimise” on newest iPhone models, the older iPhone models will always be throttled.
    It’s about putting what processes into using only single-core instead of multi-core processing.  

    A redesign of iOS could revitalise much older iPhones, like Windows 10 on older PCs, if iOS were an independent business from Apple hardware!
    Apple can certainly figure out a way to have consumers keep the new security requirements and the prior version of iOS in earlier models (or allow people people to downgrade if the update is not working out for them, with security requirements intact).

    A great deal of the software changes are design-related trivia (iOS 11 being the prime example). 

    As as an aside, I wonder how much of the struggle the older iPhone models are having relates to the the move to 64-bit apps with iOS 11. Can someone knowledgeable on this weigh in?
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 73

    More than anything else, I think Apple has learnt a very valuable lesson on communication here.

    People are skewering Apple for thinking about the life of their products. The whole thing could have been averted with a little open communication.

    I’d love to know exactly what was communicated to retail employees. I know I’d be pissed if I bought a new phone when all I needed was a new battery.
    muthuk_vanalingamfeudalist
  • Reply 28 of 73
    ivanh said:
    It’s nothing about battery. 

    If new iOS version continues  to “optimise” on newest iPhone models, the older iPhone models will always be throttled.
    It’s about putting what processes into using only single-core instead of multi-core processing.  

    A redesign of iOS could revitalise much older iPhones, like Windows 10 on older PCs, if iOS were an independent business from Apple hardware!
    Apple can certainly figure out a way to have consumers keep the new security requirements and the prior version of iOS in earlier models (or allow people people to downgrade if the update is not working out for them, with security requirements intact).

    A great deal of the software changes are design-related trivia (iOS 11 being the prime example). 

    As as an aside, I wonder how much of the struggle the older iPhone models are having relates to the the move to 64-bit apps with iOS 11. Can someone knowledgeable on this weigh in?
    This is what Apple should do. I’m running Windows 7 on an old(er) laptop and I still get security updates and bug fixes. Of course Apple then wouldn’t be able to put up a slide at keynotes saying look at how many people we have on the latest software (compared to Android). But honestly who cares? At the end of the day it’s about the user experience. And if newer software is a bad experience on older hardware then maybe it shouldn’t be an option or there should be an option to downgrade.
    anantksundarammuthuk_vanalingamfeudalist
  • Reply 29 of 73
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,378member
    cornchip said:
    Oh my lord. Guess I shoul have seen this one coming...
    Many of us did, when we said that the will get worse before it gets better. (This is now happening). And that Apple will have to fundamentally change the way it rolls out software updates in the future. (This will happen). To much derision here. 

    Big tech — Facebook, Alphabet, now Apple — is the new big target. It was all inevitable. But we should honestly recognize that some of it is being brought on by a combination of their own arrogance and obtuseness. 
    Apple's the biggest and most profitable company in the world.   This attention comes with the Territory.   This is a pretty light pressure.   Now if the President starts Tweeting about Apple the pressure could grow.   Fortunately for Apple and the rest of Silicon Valley the quality and depth of American journalism is quite low.   Back in the 70's Apple would have ended up be the subject of a 60 Minutes Expose.
    feudalist
  • Reply 30 of 73
    Rayz2016 said:

    feudalist said:

    I like this analogy and I will take it little further. So, if it happens that manufacturer used special bolts only accesible in manufacturer aproved service stations, of course without any warranty whatsoever but you will loose warranty for car if you make change in nearest garage, and they are prone to sudden loss of pressure unrelated to use/abuse before they are fully worn-out, what would be your expectation about longevity?

    Then I would say you’re driving a Toyota Prius because those are the conditions of their warranties.

    How do I know? 

    I drive one and I’ve actually read the warranty.

    If I take it back to the dealership (and if I take it anywhere other than a proper Toyota garage then the warranty is cancelled), I cannot tell them that the battery has failed “and it’s not related to use and abuse” and expect them to take my word for it. They will examine the car to see exactly what I have been doing with it. 


    In the United States, voiding or cancelling the automobile manufacturer's warranty for having someone besides the Toyota dealer do the maintenance is illegal.  So I presume that you don't live in the U.S.

    Now, if you have the work done elsewhere, and "elsewhere" screws it up, the manufacturer's warranty doesn't apply to that repair, but it doesn't void the entire warranty.

    edited January 10 feudalist
  • Reply 31 of 73
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,607member
    k2kw said:
    cornchip said:
    Oh my lord. Guess I shoul have seen this one coming...
    Many of us did, when we said that the will get worse before it gets better. (This is now happening). And that Apple will have to fundamentally change the way it rolls out software updates in the future. (This will happen). To much derision here. 

    Big tech — Facebook, Alphabet, now Apple — is the new big target. It was all inevitable. But we should honestly recognize that some of it is being brought on by a combination of their own arrogance and obtuseness. 
    Apple's the biggest and most profitable company in the world.   This attention comes with the Territory.   This is a pretty light pressure.   Now if the President starts Tweeting about Apple the pressure could grow.   Fortunately for Apple and the rest of Silicon Valley the quality and depth of American journalism is quite low.   Back in the 70's Apple would have ended up be the subject of a 60 Minutes Expose.
    I doubt any pressure would grow on Apple if the President tweeted about them. Nobody takes the President seriously anymore. lol. 
  • Reply 32 of 73
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,607member

    ivanh said:
    It’s nothing about battery. 

    If new iOS version continues  to “optimise” on newest iPhone models, the older iPhone models will always be throttled.
    It’s about putting what processes into using only single-core instead of multi-core processing.  

    A redesign of iOS could revitalise much older iPhones, like Windows 10 on older PCs, if iOS were an independent business from Apple hardware!
    You honestly think Apple is purposely holding back old phones in newer versions of iOS? Seriously!? So is Apple also purposely holding back older Macs in new versions of macOS? Is Microsoft purposely making it so older PC's don't work with new versions of Windows? Is Blue Hole Studios purposely making PUBG not work on older hardware? 

    Do you have black helicopters over your house right now? Better go check!

    Of course a new iPhone is going to run really well on the newest version of iOS. However, its not like all of a sudden iPhone 7 runs like shit on iOS 11. Even my old iPhone 6s ran fine on iOS 11. 
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 33 of 73
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,318member
    foggyhill said:
    More grandstanding from political shitheads, but in another country. That is something that unites the world: technical idiocy.
    Meanwhile in China...
  • Reply 34 of 73
    airnerdairnerd Posts: 569member
    rob53 said:
    Here we go again, someone who knows next to nothing about how rechargeable batteries work. Why is it nobody cares about all their battery operated devices needing new batteries? We hardly ever hear about those but everyone is complaining about Apple's batteries as if they expect them to last forever. People need to get a grip and realize we're not using Star Trek era power sources that last longer but also don't last forever. As for Apple being required to give people free replacement batteries, if the courts demand this then I'm suing every manufacturer of battery operated devices for a lifetime supply of batteries, starting with my rechargeable batteries in my power tools. It's the same thing and don't get me started on Apple changing software to slow their devices down a bit to extend the life of the power in their batteries. This makes sense and people should appreciate it. As for the law firms going after Apple, I think Congress should investigate them and all the other ambulance chasing lawyers. Get rid of them. 
    You should restrict your lawsuit to every manufacturer that has a battery which can't be easily changed and that they are intentionally degrading service based on the age of the battery.  Power tools are the perfect example.  Yeah the Lithium batteries wear out but I can swap a new one pretty darn easily, and as the battery holds less and less charge the thing still spins at the same RPM.  That is what happens with old batteries and everyone knows it.  But I'm in complete control of my user experience, something Apple hasn't given me. 

    Now if they release a new iOS which allows me to turn that "slowdown for old battery" option, all is well.  To me the biggest issue is the underhanded way they rolled this out knowing full well what they were doing and not alerting anyone.  Not until they got caught did they have a nameless drone put some "yeah, we do this and sorry we got caught" letter on their website.  As far as I have seen the man at the top has still yet to be on record with an apology or explanation.  The more and more I think about this the more shady it looks.  
    feudalist
  • Reply 35 of 73
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,607member

    More than anything else, I think Apple has learnt a very valuable lesson on communication here.

    People are skewering Apple for thinking about the life of their products. The whole thing could have been averted with a little open communication.

    Yes, Apple could have been a little more transparent about this, but it wouldn't have stopped anyone from doing what they're doing today. People would still be completely misunderstanding the issue and thinking Apple is just throttling phones to sell more new iPhones. Countries would still be investigating Apple and potentially suing them. None of this really would have stopped. 

    Unless there's a smoking gun somewhere that pops out, I can't see where Apple wouldn't prevail in the end. However, this could mean that Apple's reputation is tarnished a little for some. Others, again unless there's a smoking gun, will just blow it off like were currently doing. The very worst thing that could happen for Apple is some sort of memo or something that come leak out from Apple about if we do this we can sell more phones and we'll use battery physics as a cover up or something like that. If that ever leaks out Apple is done and they're gonna have to spend a shitload of their bank accounts to defend themselves. I hope this day never arrives. 

    On the flip side, one of the best things that could happen to Apple is a memo gets leaked about how we see an issue and this is how were going to fix it, but "temporarily" throttling the phone "only" when necessary. This would I think at least stop or slow the class action lawsuits, the investigations from different countries and organizations, etc. However this won't stop folks, including some in this very forum from thinking Apple is out to scam them. Some people you just can't please in that fashion. 
  • Reply 36 of 73
    macxpress said:

    More than anything else, I think Apple has learnt a very valuable lesson on communication here.

    People are skewering Apple for thinking about the life of their products. The whole thing could have been averted with a little open communication.

    Yes, Apple could have been a little more transparent about this, but it wouldn't have stopped anyone from doing what they're doing today. People would still be completely misunderstanding the issue and thinking Apple is just throttling phones to sell more new iPhones. Countries would still be investigating Apple and potentially suing them. None of this really would have stopped. 

    Unless there's a smoking gun somewhere that pops out, I can't see where Apple wouldn't prevail in the end. However, this could mean that Apple's reputation is tarnished a little for some. Others, again unless there's a smoking gun, will just blow it off like were currently doing. The very worst thing that could happen for Apple is some sort of memo or something that come leak out from Apple about if we do this we can sell more phones and we'll use battery physics as a cover up or something like that. If that ever leaks out Apple is done and they're gonna have to spend a shitload of their bank accounts to defend themselves. I hope this day never arrives. 

    On the flip side, one of the best things that could happen to Apple is a memo gets leaked about how we see an issue and this is how were going to fix it, but "temporarily" throttling the phone "only" when necessary. This would I think at least stop or slow the class action lawsuits, the investigations from different countries and organizations, etc. However this won't stop folks, including some in this very forum from thinking Apple is out to scam them. Some people you just can't please in that fashion. 
    Oh yeah, you can predict a counterfactual. 

    Then, I claim that this would have NOT happened if Apple had been more transparent. Prove me wrong. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 37 of 73
    Most of these discussions are missing the more significant point.  How many people upgraded to a new phone because of this?  I did. Had I known that a new battery for $79 would have fixed my performance problem, I would have gone that route. People who upgraded are the real people who got burned. 
    muthuk_vanalingamairnerd
  • Reply 38 of 73
    feudalist said:
    foggyhill said:
    feudalist said:
    rob53 said:
    Here we go again, someone who knows next to nothing about how rechargeable batteries work. Why is it nobody cares about all their battery operated devices needing new batteries? We hardly ever hear about those but everyone is complaining about Apple's batteries as if they expect them to last forever.
    If forever means 2-3 years usefull life out of 800 to 1000 USD priced phone, yes we are not expecting but requesting that.
    Right... I suppose you throw a away your car instead of changing the tires, or the battery in your car
    no matter the usage, no matter the conditions you used / use them in huh bud.

    I like this analogy and I will take it little further. So, if it happens that manufacturer used special bolts only accesible in manufacturer aproved service stations, of course without any warranty whatsoever but you will loose warranty for car if you make change in nearest garage, and they are prone to sudden loss of pressure unrelated to use/abuse before they are fully worn-out, what would be your expectation about longevity?

    You really are clueless I see. I was going to say more about you but that seems to be complete.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 39 of 73
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,607member
    macxpress said:

    More than anything else, I think Apple has learnt a very valuable lesson on communication here.

    People are skewering Apple for thinking about the life of their products. The whole thing could have been averted with a little open communication.

    Yes, Apple could have been a little more transparent about this, but it wouldn't have stopped anyone from doing what they're doing today. People would still be completely misunderstanding the issue and thinking Apple is just throttling phones to sell more new iPhones. Countries would still be investigating Apple and potentially suing them. None of this really would have stopped. 

    Unless there's a smoking gun somewhere that pops out, I can't see where Apple wouldn't prevail in the end. However, this could mean that Apple's reputation is tarnished a little for some. Others, again unless there's a smoking gun, will just blow it off like were currently doing. The very worst thing that could happen for Apple is some sort of memo or something that come leak out from Apple about if we do this we can sell more phones and we'll use battery physics as a cover up or something like that. If that ever leaks out Apple is done and they're gonna have to spend a shitload of their bank accounts to defend themselves. I hope this day never arrives. 

    On the flip side, one of the best things that could happen to Apple is a memo gets leaked about how we see an issue and this is how were going to fix it, but "temporarily" throttling the phone "only" when necessary. This would I think at least stop or slow the class action lawsuits, the investigations from different countries and organizations, etc. However this won't stop folks, including some in this very forum from thinking Apple is out to scam them. Some people you just can't please in that fashion. 
    Oh yeah, you can predict a counterfactual. 

    Then, I claim that this would have NOT happened if Apple had been more transparent. Prove me wrong. 
    Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?

    I guess we can't have opinions on this forum anymore...
    airnerd
  • Reply 40 of 73
    “My battery is dying and there’s nothing that can be done to save me now, except for an endless supply of free batteries... and my elected representative in Washington will help save the day!”
    StrangeDays
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