U.S. government questions Apple over iPhone slowdown debacle

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 73
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,447administrator
    One more time on the switch.

    1) The throttling isn't permanent. It's only in-place during the active low-voltage situation.
    2) A crash because of a low-voltage condition in the middle of a write can "brick" the device, leading to a DFU reset and restore through iTunes to bring the device back to life.

    There won't be a toggle for it. There can't be a toggle for it, because of point two. I get that "we" meaning AI readers, know how to do a DFU -- but does Joe Public?
    edited January 2018 StrangeDayswonkothesanemagman1979fastasleep
  • Reply 42 of 73
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 722member
    feudalist said:
    rob53 said:
    Here we go again, someone who knows next to nothing about how rechargeable batteries work. Why is it nobody cares about all their battery operated devices needing new batteries? We hardly ever hear about those but everyone is complaining about Apple's batteries as if they expect them to last forever.
    If forever means 2-3 years usefull life out of 800 to 1000 USD priced phone, yes we are not expecting but requesting that.
    So you are yet another person that has zero idea what caused the throttling or why. All affected phones are 2 + years old, and a new battery will fix any slowdown issue. This is getting so tiresome now. Please educate yourself on the actual issue, or stop posting wanna be snarky nonsense. 

    I am "requesting" that the stupid trolling comments cease.. ASAP.
  • Reply 43 of 73
    feudalist said:

    Maybe, we should have out representative go question auto car manufacturer - It is commonly known that there are speed governors in car with electronics where it controls your max speed limit. The car can really go much more faster. Obviously the car companies do it so for the safety of the owner of the car, but also so that it doesn't destroy the engine due to prolonged running of engine at higher speed. Kind of sound familiar, doesn't it.
    electronicaly limited speed is actualy rare and it's advertised as such before purchase and clearly stated in user's manual. So, bad, very bad analogy
    Uh, I have yet to see stated in ANY automotive manuall what the top governed speed is. Maybe in Grand Theft Auto, but not in the real world.
    airnerd
  • Reply 44 of 73
    The French inquiry is being overblown in terms of the planned obsolescence part. It's the company itself that determines the expected lifespan of the product and it's components, not France. French law just says that if the company doesn't live up to it's own promises regarding lifespan then it can be held liable. That's in addition to the warranty requirements. So if Apple says the battery has a specific number of charges or level of capacity before it needs to be replaced, then as long as they're following that they can't be held liable for planned obsolescence. 
  • Reply 45 of 73
    GG1GG1 Posts: 243member
    feudalist said:

    Maybe, we should have out representative go question auto car manufacturer - It is commonly known that there are speed governors in car with electronics where it controls your max speed limit. The car can really go much more faster. Obviously the car companies do it so for the safety of the owner of the car, but also so that it doesn't destroy the engine due to prolonged running of engine at higher speed. Kind of sound familiar, doesn't it.
    electronicaly limited speed is actualy rare and it's advertised as such before purchase and clearly stated in user's manual. So, bad, very bad analogy
    Uh, I have yet to see stated in ANY automotive manuall what the top governed speed is. Maybe in Grand Theft Auto, but not in the real world.
    Don't German manufacturers limit/govern the top speed of all but their highest performance cars* to 155 MPH/250 KPH? It's more of a gentleman's agreement, I think (not a law). Can someone from Europe confirm this?

    Edit: could it be a political reason? (German Green Party)

    * all Porsche, BMW M, Audi S, MB AMG/Black Series
    edited January 2018 feudalist
  • Reply 46 of 73
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    cbcapple said:
    Most of these discussions are missing the more significant point.  How many people upgraded to a new phone because of this?  I did. Had I known that a new battery for $79 would have fixed my performance problem, I would have gone that route. People who upgraded are the real people who got burned. 

    Ignorance sure is bliss seemingly.. 

    How many of those straw man people who ONLY upgraded for that reason actually exist
    Not in your outraged head exists, or in the head of lawyers exists, but in actual factual exists.
    (I do see a lot of retro post facto justification in support of outrage culture, that sure does exists... )

    Btw, those phones with degraded batteries would have sporadically died at inopportune times at all battery discharge levels (that happens for all makers btw) otherwise which is what Apple did before (still telling them in settings their battery is crap if they want to know).

    Why would those same straw man people not believe their phone is defective then since they could not be bothered to verify this (battery health ) in any way before (according to your description of how they act) and still replace it

    By the time they figured out it slowed down under peak usage (to prevent battery related shutdowns), their phone would likely have been functioning way past the point it would have had the battery changed or changed their phones because it kept shutting down.

    For the average user not keeping everything running at the same time all the time (GPS, bluetooth, high brightness, constant background refresh) in fact what Apple had done would be a distinct advantage in the performance department (no shutdowns) and with little performance impact (since they're not close to the edge of the envelope) and increased their phones longevity A LOT.

    So, what about those people who did NOT upgrade because of this software (btw, I'm on Iphone 6s). No one is thinking about that scenario, only the "outrage scenario".

    Many people indeed keep their  phones even if the performance is slightly degraded. Why? Because it indeed cost money and most people do the math in their head (slow down in some specific circumstances vs how much in bothers them vs money)

     Why are Ipad2's all over the place despite now having both very old batteries and pretty slow performance overall (not just peak one); because people don't just replace their things because they're a bit slow under certain use.

    Many keep saying the latest Iphones have too much horsepower for most users need (which is probably truth for a huge portion of Iphone users), well those people with overpowered phones are not going to be hit with this peak usage that would trigger throttling very often or very soon (since their battery would be less quickly degraded).  For this average user, all they'll see is their phone lasts much longer before starting to wonk out.

    If it was NOT the case, every time a new IOS version comes around, everyone would just dump their phone (it has ALWAYS slowed down old phones (especially X.0 and X.1 versins) from the first versions of IOS version).

    The phone is still highly usable so people acting like its suddenly near unusable is another big straw man.

    The main reason we hear so much about this (besides need for media to have clickbait headlines) is that those most likely to be affected are very intensive Iphone users which have a big presence online that likely reached the end of their battery life before 2 years (which is very easy to do if you use your phone enough that you need to charge it fully twice a day).

    Those people indeed, being heavy users, would have the performance of their phones substantially degraded since they're closer to using its full power all the time (that's why their battery is so bad in the first place). Those users, no matter the phone used should already know they are damaging their battery and it will need to be changed quickly (and verifying their battery health accordingly) cause no matter the phone, they would have had to replace the battery in the past many times (even before Apple introduced the fix in IOS 10.2).

    So, why would those same users now do the straw man actions ... Oh, now my phone does not shut down like it used to in past years (1-2 year ago) but instead slow downs, so that must mean my phone needs replacing.... Only in idiot land... outrage land (current internet).,.. or lawyer land does such a scenario occur regularly

    edited January 2018 fastasleep
  • Reply 47 of 73
    GG1 said:
    feudalist said:

    Maybe, we should have out representative go question auto car manufacturer - It is commonly known that there are speed governors in car with electronics where it controls your max speed limit. The car can really go much more faster. Obviously the car companies do it so for the safety of the owner of the car, but also so that it doesn't destroy the engine due to prolonged running of engine at higher speed. Kind of sound familiar, doesn't it.
    electronicaly limited speed is actualy rare and it's advertised as such before purchase and clearly stated in user's manual. So, bad, very bad analogy
    Uh, I have yet to see stated in ANY automotive manuall what the top governed speed is. Maybe in Grand Theft Auto, but not in the real world.
    Don't German manufacturers limit/govern the top speed of all but their highest performance cars* to 155 MPH/250 KPH? It's more of a gentleman's agreement, I think (not a law). Can someone from Europe confirm this?
    You are right, it’s gentleman’s agreement. Great majority of their ergela is’nt capable to reach 250 km/h, anyway. Some higher trim’s are and they are limited, but performance models are not, again. 
  • Reply 48 of 73
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,782member
    Yes, Apple did one thing wrong. Not informing their customer that they are switching into that mode. Couldn't they have used the "Power Save" mode to do exactly what they were doing otherwise? 
    I agree. They should have popped up a message to the user. "ALL lithium ion batteries degrade over time. Due to age, your battery is not performing adequately. We recommend that you choose to slow your phone's speed slightly to prolong the life of your battery. Do you want to enable the battery preservation function?" If the user agrees the enabling of the slowed performance should simply expose a toggle in the settings that could be enabled or disabled at any time by the user. 

     Depending on the model of iPhone they could optionally state in the message that battery replacements are available at authorized Apple service centers for $29.
    edited January 2018
  • Reply 49 of 73
    feudalist said:

    Maybe, we should have out representative go question auto car manufacturer - It is commonly known that there are speed governors in car with electronics where it controls your max speed limit. The car can really go much more faster. Obviously the car companies do it so for the safety of the owner of the car, but also so that it doesn't destroy the engine due to prolonged running of engine at higher speed. Kind of sound familiar, doesn't it.
    electronicaly limited speed is actualy rare and it's advertised as such before purchase and clearly stated in user's manual. So, bad, very bad analogy
    Uh, I have yet to see stated in ANY automotive manuall what the top governed speed is. Maybe in Grand Theft Auto, but not in the real world.
    This, page 17
    https://m.bmw.de/content/dam/bmw/common/cs/Topics/pricelists-brochures/brochures/BMW_Catalogue_3_Series_Sedan.pdf.asset.1476434365131.pdf
  • Reply 50 of 73
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,782member
    feudalist said:
    GG1 said:
    Don't German manufacturers limit/govern the top speed of all but their highest performance cars* to 155 MPH/250 KPH? It's more of a gentleman's agreement, I think (not a law). Can someone from Europe confirm this?
    You are right, it’s gentleman’s agreement. Great majority of their ergela is’nt capable to reach 250 km/h, anyway. Some higher trim’s are and they are limited, but performance models are not, again. 
    One example is the Nissan GT-R. The top performance mode is only enabled when on a certified race course. They use GPS to determine that, although that function was quickly bypassed by the hot rod enthusiasts.
    feudalistGG1
  • Reply 51 of 73
    One more time on the switch.

    1) The throttling isn't permanent. It's only in-place during the active low-voltage situation.
    Little correction, sir. 
    This is official apple statement: “This power management works by looking at a combination of the device temperature, battery state of charge, and battery impedance.”

    they are mantioning higher voltage drop because of high(er) impedance but not low voltage situation at all. 
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208387
    airnerd
  • Reply 52 of 73
    feudalist said:
    rob53 said:
    Here we go again, someone who knows next to nothing about how rechargeable batteries work. Why is it nobody cares about all their battery operated devices needing new batteries? We hardly ever hear about those but everyone is complaining about Apple's batteries as if they expect them to last forever.
    If forever means 2-3 years usefull life out of 800 to 1000 USD priced phone, yes we are not expecting but requesting that.
    You never answered my question on your other ill informed posts -- do you have similar fits when your aging car battery fails to provide the needed peak power draw necessary to crank a car in the winter or hot summer? Because that's when a sane person says, "Oops, time to change my battery!" and moves on with his life in a normal fashion.

    Do you not do that too? Sincerely want to know.
  • Reply 53 of 73
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,447administrator
    feudalist said:
    One more time on the switch.

    1) The throttling isn't permanent. It's only in-place during the active low-voltage situation.
    Little correction, sir. 
    This is official apple statement: “This power management works by looking at a combination of the device temperature, battery state of charge, and battery impedance.”

    they are mantioning higher voltage drop because of high(er) impedance but not low voltage situation at all. 
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208387
    I'm aware, and you're right, this is a very little correction.

    We're saying the same thing. All those things lead to lower voltage.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 54 of 73
    I'd like to see the test results of a two year old iPhone compared to a brand new and a two year old android phone.

    Should not be difficult to produce such a report.  The iPhones literally crushed android performance when new.  Even throttled, I bet the iPhone compares favorably to the others.

    http://bgr.com/2014/09/22/iphone-6-vs-android-performance-tests/
    http://bgr.com/2016/11/15/iphone-vs-android-iphone-7-google-pixel/

    Show us the test results.

  • Reply 55 of 73
    feudalist said:
    rob53 said:
    Here we go again, someone who knows next to nothing about how rechargeable batteries work. Why is it nobody cares about all their battery operated devices needing new batteries? We hardly ever hear about those but everyone is complaining about Apple's batteries as if they expect them to last forever.
    If forever means 2-3 years usefull life out of 800 to 1000 USD priced phone, yes we are not expecting but requesting that.
    You never answered my question on your other ill informed posts -- do you have similar fits when your aging car battery fails to provide the needed peak power draw necessary to crank a car in the winter or hot summer? Because that's when a sane person says, "Oops, time to change my battery!" and moves on with his life in a normal fashion.

    Do you not do that too? Sincerely want to know.

    The normal life of a car battery is 60 months.  Some may last longer while others may fail sooner but overall it is reasonable to expect a car battery to perform adequately for five years unless you have an extreme use case like living in Alaska or the Sahara.  I've had batteries fail after three years and I get pissed because my expectations weren't met.  I change the battery and move on because sometimes you just have bad luck and get that one battery that wasn't quite as good as usual.  However, to relate it to Apple's situation, imagine if I found out a much higher than normal percentage of consumers' batteries were failing at the two-to-three year mark.  Then I am going to rightfully blame the manufacturer for putting out a product that is lower in quality than typical.

    Same thing with phone batteries.  A two or three year old battery may be out of warranty, but given other devices' tendency to simply experience reduced runtime as opposed to crashing or throttling as the batteries age, it is reasonable to expect Apple products to perform similarly.  Battery failures in older iPhones up through the 5S were quite rare as customers regularly got many years out of their devices without crashing.  They knew to replace their battery when they couldn't get through the day without their battery meter running down to 0% which may have been only 2-3 years for heavy users or 5+ years for light users.

    Suddenly with the iPhone 6 the devices weren't stable and began unexpectedly crashing even with more than 50% battery level indicated as the battery aged moderately.  That behavior is not acceptable.  Apple's band-aid fix of throttling performance by up to 60% isn't acceptable either, but it was the only choice they had to regain stability.  Changing the battery may fix it initially, but to expect it to be normal for even light users to be required to replace their batteries every two years or face severe performance degradation is quite ill informed as to what other devices and even Apple's previous devices will do.

    Ultimately though, this is likely not a battery issue.  Unless Apple has some unique specification for the batteries used since the iPhone 6 they should be performing and degrading the same as every other Li-ion battery on the market.  The problem is in the power requirements of Apple's design which is simply drawing more power than the battery can supply after moderate use.  There is no way Apple's engineers shouldn't have known this was going to be an issue as the charge-cycle/power output curve of a Li-ion battery is a known variable.

    Whether you like it or not Apple's products are not performing up to consumer expectations that are based on real-world performance of typical battery powered devices.
    feudalistzimmermannmuthuk_vanalingamavon b7
  • Reply 56 of 73
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,447administrator
    78Bandit said:
    feudalist said:
    rob53 said:
    Here we go again, someone who knows next to nothing about how rechargeable batteries work. Why is it nobody cares about all their battery operated devices needing new batteries? We hardly ever hear about those but everyone is complaining about Apple's batteries as if they expect them to last forever.
    If forever means 2-3 years usefull life out of 800 to 1000 USD priced phone, yes we are not expecting but requesting that.
    You never answered my question on your other ill informed posts -- do you have similar fits when your aging car battery fails to provide the needed peak power draw necessary to crank a car in the winter or hot summer? Because that's when a sane person says, "Oops, time to change my battery!" and moves on with his life in a normal fashion.

    Do you not do that too? Sincerely want to know.

    The normal life of a car battery is 60 months.  Some may last longer while others may fail sooner but overall it is reasonable to expect a car battery to perform adequately for five years unless you have an extreme use case like living in Alaska or the Sahara.  I've had batteries fail after three years and I get pissed because my expectations weren't met.  I change the battery and move on because sometimes you just have bad luck and get that one battery that wasn't quite as good as usual.  However, to relate it to Apple's situation, imagine if I found out a much higher than normal percentage of consumers' batteries were failing at the two-to-three year mark.  Then I am going to rightfully blame the manufacturer for putting out a product that is lower in quality than typical.

    Same thing with phone batteries.  A two or three year old battery may be out of warranty, but given other devices' tendency to simply experience reduced runtime as opposed to crashing or throttling as the batteries age, it is reasonable to expect Apple products to perform similarly.  Battery failures in older iPhones up through the 5S were quite rare as customers regularly got many years out of their devices without crashing.  They knew to replace their battery when they couldn't get through the day without their battery meter running down to 0% which may have been only 2-3 years for heavy users or 5+ years for light users.

    Suddenly with the iPhone 6 the devices weren't stable and began unexpectedly crashing even with more than 50% battery level indicated as the battery aged moderately.  That behavior is not acceptable.  Apple's band-aid fix of throttling performance by up to 60% isn't acceptable either, but it was the only choice they had to regain stability.  Changing the battery may fix it initially, but to expect it to be normal for even light users to be required to replace their batteries every two years or face severe performance degradation is quite ill informed as to what other devices and even Apple's previous devices will do.

    Ultimately though, this is likely not a battery issue.  Unless Apple has some unique specification for the batteries used since the iPhone 6 they should be performing and degrading the same as every other Li-ion battery on the market.  The problem is in the power requirements of Apple's design which is simply drawing more power than the battery can supply after moderate use.  There is no way Apple's engineers shouldn't have known this was going to be an issue as the charge-cycle/power output curve of a Li-ion battery is a known variable.

    Whether you like it or not Apple's products are not performing up to consumer expectations that are based on real-world performance of typical battery powered devices.
    The performance characteristics, chemistry, and reactant volume between a lead-acid car battery and a lithium-ion battery are so far removed, that there is no comparison that can be made between the two.

    Consumer expectations and realities driven by physics can be two entirely different things. Your assumption relies on this not happening in other Li-ion powered devices, when in actuality the voltage drop and crashing does and always has -- and the other device manufacturers do literally nothing about it. The only thing that's new here is slowing down the phone in cases of a chemically worn battery.
    edited January 2018 fastasleep
  • Reply 57 of 73
    GG1 said:
    feudalist said:

    Maybe, we should have out representative go question auto car manufacturer - It is commonly known that there are speed governors in car with electronics where it controls your max speed limit. The car can really go much more faster. Obviously the car companies do it so for the safety of the owner of the car, but also so that it doesn't destroy the engine due to prolonged running of engine at higher speed. Kind of sound familiar, doesn't it.
    electronicaly limited speed is actualy rare and it's advertised as such before purchase and clearly stated in user's manual. So, bad, very bad analogy
    Uh, I have yet to see stated in ANY automotive manuall what the top governed speed is. Maybe in Grand Theft Auto, but not in the real world.
    Don't German manufacturers limit/govern the top speed of all but their highest performance cars* to 155 MPH/250 KPH? It's more of a gentleman's agreement, I think (not a law). Can someone from Europe confirm this?

    Edit: could it be a political reason? (German Green Party)

    * all Porsche, BMW M, Audi S, MB AMG/Black Series
    I can confirm this. As well, almost any model where the speed is “voluntarily” limited to 250 km/h (which if you ever drove this is quite fast anyway and it’s not so often you actually have enough free road and no speed limits - roundabout 60-70% due to temporary limits due to e.g traffic or weather) can be ordered with an optional removal of that limit. 

    Edit: and btw, your statement “all” is actually not true. You can check on the individual manufacturers’ pages. 
    edited January 2018
  • Reply 58 of 73
    GG1GG1 Posts: 243member
    GG1 said:
    feudalist said:

    Maybe, we should have out representative go question auto car manufacturer - It is commonly known that there are speed governors in car with electronics where it controls your max speed limit. The car can really go much more faster. Obviously the car companies do it so for the safety of the owner of the car, but also so that it doesn't destroy the engine due to prolonged running of engine at higher speed. Kind of sound familiar, doesn't it.
    electronicaly limited speed is actualy rare and it's advertised as such before purchase and clearly stated in user's manual. So, bad, very bad analogy
    Uh, I have yet to see stated in ANY automotive manuall what the top governed speed is. Maybe in Grand Theft Auto, but not in the real world.
    Don't German manufacturers limit/govern the top speed of all but their highest performance cars* to 155 MPH/250 KPH? It's more of a gentleman's agreement, I think (not a law). Can someone from Europe confirm this?

    Edit: could it be a political reason? (German Green Party)

    * all Porsche, BMW M, Audi S, MB AMG/Black Series
    I can confirm this. As well, almost any model where the speed is “voluntarily” limited to 250 km/h (which if you ever drove this is quite fast anyway and it’s not so often you actually have enough free road and no speed limits - roundabout 60-70% due to temporary limits due to e.g traffic or weather) can be ordered with an optional removal of that limit. 

    Edit: and btw, your statement “all” is actually not true. You can check on the individual manufacturers’ pages. 
    Thanks for confirming. I just checked, and in the USA some AMG's have the 155/250 limit, others have a higher limit.
  • Reply 59 of 73
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:

    More than anything else, I think Apple has learnt a very valuable lesson on communication here.

    People are skewering Apple for thinking about the life of their products. The whole thing could have been averted with a little open communication.

    Yes, Apple could have been a little more transparent about this, but it wouldn't have stopped anyone from doing what they're doing today. People would still be completely misunderstanding the issue and thinking Apple is just throttling phones to sell more new iPhones. Countries would still be investigating Apple and potentially suing them. None of this really would have stopped. 

    Unless there's a smoking gun somewhere that pops out, I can't see where Apple wouldn't prevail in the end. However, this could mean that Apple's reputation is tarnished a little for some. Others, again unless there's a smoking gun, will just blow it off like were currently doing. The very worst thing that could happen for Apple is some sort of memo or something that come leak out from Apple about if we do this we can sell more phones and we'll use battery physics as a cover up or something like that. If that ever leaks out Apple is done and they're gonna have to spend a shitload of their bank accounts to defend themselves. I hope this day never arrives. 

    On the flip side, one of the best things that could happen to Apple is a memo gets leaked about how we see an issue and this is how were going to fix it, but "temporarily" throttling the phone "only" when necessary. This would I think at least stop or slow the class action lawsuits, the investigations from different countries and organizations, etc. However this won't stop folks, including some in this very forum from thinking Apple is out to scam them. Some people you just can't please in that fashion. 
    Oh yeah, you can predict a counterfactual. 

    Then, I claim that this would have NOT happened if Apple had been more transparent. Prove me wrong. 
    Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?

    I guess we can't have opinions on this forum anymore...
    Quote: "..Apple could have been a little more transparent about this, but it wouldn't have stopped anyone from doing what they're doing today.." /Unquote.

    That's not an opinion.
  • Reply 60 of 73
    toddzrxtoddzrx Posts: 194member
    This is incredibly stupid.

    rob53 said:
    Here we go again, someone who knows next to nothing about how rechargeable batteries work. Why is it nobody cares about all their battery operated devices needing new batteries? We hardly ever hear about those but everyone is complaining about Apple's batteries as if they expect them to last forever. People need to get a grip and realize we're not using Star Trek era power sources that last longer but also don't last forever. As for Apple being required to give people free replacement batteries, if the courts demand this then I'm suing every manufacturer of battery operated devices for a lifetime supply of batteries, starting with my rechargeable batteries in my power tools. It's the same thing and don't get me started on Apple changing software to slow their devices down a bit to extend the life of the power in their batteries. This makes sense and people should appreciate it. As for the law firms going after Apple, I think Congress should investigate them and all the other ambulance chasing lawyers. Get rid of them. 

    cornchip said:
    Oh my lord. Guess I shoul have seen this one coming...

    foggyhill said:
    More grandstanding from political shitheads, but in another country. That is something that unites the world: technical idiocy.

    Rayz2016 said:
    Apple needs to send him the explanation as a picture book. 

    This is really getting ridiculous! First of, I do feel what Apple did, slowing down the phone, was to provide better value for the customer. It allows them to push their buying decision for new phone further down the line. Rechargeable batteries do have some end of life. As far as the speed goes, let's get real - Phones are communication and utility device, they are not solving some mission critical problem where a slowness is impacting the owners need. Yes, Apple did one thing wrong. Not informing their customer that they are switching into that mode. Couldn't they have used the "Power Save" mode to do exactly what they were doing otherwise? 

    In any case, Apple apologized and I think they have provided a generous deal for battery replacement. What I don't like is some French government action prompted this administration to question Apple and that too from an official who doesn't understand technology. Maybe, we should have out representative go question auto car manufacturer - It is commonly known that there are speed governors in car with electronics where it controls your max speed limit. The car can really go much more faster. Obviously the car companies do it so for the safety of the owner of the car, but also so that it doesn't destroy the engine due to prolonged running of engine at higher speed. Kind of sound familiar, doesn't it.
    To all of you: your outrage and criticism is just about as silly as the outrage and criticism aimed at Apple over all of this.  If you bothered to look at the original WSJ article, you'll see that Thune's questions are more related to how Apple is handling the issue with consumers and not directly with the battery and software issues themselves.  Good grief.
    fastasleepfeudalistairnerd
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