It's another sign Apple have lost their bearing when it comes to the importance of building ecosystem for and around the Mac. It will also be a loss for small business wanting independence from Microsoft and cloud hosting solutions.
It is also a telltale that whatever new Pro and "mini" configurations are planned for 2018 and beyond will have no server class capabilities.
cpsro said: Apple's involvement in both client and server guaranteed compatibility. Standardizing on one platform (macOS) in house for servers and workstations also reduced management costs.
It doesn't really reduce management costs in the long run because the technical resource pool is so limited. If something goes wrong and you are not around to fix it, virtually no one else knows how to work on it. Sort of like a web designer who codes in Ruby, Coldfusion or Django. Bad idea. Unlike Linux or Windows, for macOS Server there is no help available.
It's another sign Apple have lost their bearing when it comes to the importance of building ecosystem for and around the Mac. It will also be a loss for small business wanting independence from Microsoft and cloud hosting solutions.
It is also a telltale that whatever new Pro and "mini" configurations are planned for 2018 and beyond will have no server class capabilities.
There is only the server admin utility which honestly is just a crutch. You can add Apache to any version of macOS (OS X) and the system automatically identifies itself as macOS server there after. It is up to you to administer it anyway you want. For anyone familiar with UNIX that would probably be by command line. The main difference between macOS and regular UNIX is that Apple puts config files and executables in odd places by default, which is why most UNIX server professionals shy away from it.
The only people using these features anyways are hobbyists in my opinion. Any company who was relying on most of these services that are being discontinued is playing with fire.
That's pure "Monday morning quarterbacking". Going forward, users of Server will naturally migrate away. The job won't be easy or cheap though, which is why many people still haven't made the move despite the signals Apple has been sending for a couple years already. If you'd made the investment years ago, you wouldn't want to abandon it for something else soon either.
Far from a monday morning quarterback statement. I'm a certified Apple Consultant who is also certified in the Server app and has supported for a long time. You talk to any professional Apple consultant who has any experience with the server app and they will tell you run far away from it (minus using it for file sharing, open directory, and essentially everything that Apple is leaving behind).
In my years of experience, the only people running this software at a small business are " do it your selfers" and people who love to tinker with stuff like that. Of course there are exceptions, but I stand by my statements.
Apple doesn't like to support services or products that are not mainstream consumer items. Almost no one uses macOS server however you can maintain virtually all of those services that you mentioned all by yourself on just about any platform you want because they are standard open source protocols. If you really want to focus on earning $$$, I would suggest you bail on macOS server -- it is obsolete, just like Xserve.
The only people using these features anyways are hobbyists in my opinion. Any company who was relying on most of these services that are being discontinued is playing with fire. Good riddance and glad Apple is focusing on the more useful services of the Server app, even it it is becoming a non server app.
You can say this all you want but most of these services are created using the same ideas found on existing linux server installations, they're just adjusted to run properly under macOS. They don't include any(?) of the cluster server capabilities but that doesn't mean they're only for hobbyists. There's a lot of small businesses who don't need (and can't afford) enterprise level server software installations and using the open source options can still save them money. Everything doesn't have to run on an overpriced Windows installation.
You thinking that enterprise level server software and overpriced Windows are the only alternatives for people using this app is your first issue. Majority of small businesses who are trying to get by on the server app are people who could easily leverage an inexpensive cloud system for email, calendars, contracts, etc. That's why Apple is getting rid of this app, as there is hardly ever a good reason to run these services on your own.
These are definitely my own opinions, but my opinions come from a place of experience, certifications, and actually supporting users who use to use OS X Server and or were sold it by Apple retail staff as a be all end all to all their problems.
For me, Server offered me a way to easily set up and configure ACLs and their inheritance, which is not readily available in Finder. When setting up a Maxon Cinema 4D Team Render Server, properly inheriting permissions is critical to functionality of Team Render Server and trial and error testing showed that Finder did not offer the finesse or inheritance needed. I would love to see this functionality rolled into Finder; but, as long as it isn't, Server offers what I need for quick and easy render farms for remote shoots.
If you think I am exaggerating, you will be able to see the results, this coming Sunday at a certain sports event out of Minneapolis that will see some heavy viewership.
As a technical type person but a non-server admin, I never could get much of anything to work other than the file server and VPN.
I couldn't get VPN to work because I couldn't figure out the right settings for my Fios router. That was the feature I was most looking forward to using too.
The only people using these features anyways are hobbyists in my opinion. Any company who was relying on most of these services that are being discontinued is playing with fire. Good riddance and glad Apple is focusing on the more useful services of the Server app, even it it is becoming a non server app.
You can say this all you want but most of these services are created using the same ideas found on existing linux server installations, they're just adjusted to run properly under macOS. They don't include any(?) of the cluster server capabilities but that doesn't mean they're only for hobbyists. There's a lot of small businesses who don't need (and can't afford) enterprise level server software installations and using the open source options can still save them money. Everything doesn't have to run on an overpriced Windows installation.
You thinking that enterprise level server software and overpriced Windows are the only alternatives for people using this app is your first issue. Majority of small businesses who are trying to get by on the server app are people who could easily leverage an inexpensive cloud system for email, calendars, contracts, etc. That's why Apple is getting rid of this app, as there is hardly ever a good reason to run these services on your own.
These are definitely my own opinions, but my opinions come from a place of experience, certifications, and actually supporting users who use to use OS X Server and or were sold it by Apple retail staff as a be all end all to all their problems.
I couldn't agree more. A small business would be much more vulnerable trying to maintain their own servers than using SaaS solutions.
bkkcanuck said: For anyone setting up the server -- they would likely be technical enough not to need a simplified UI -- and it would likely get in the way. Better to focus on services provided in the cloud that respect privacy. No great loss.
For 10 years, I've managed many services* in macOS Server. While I'm technical enough to manage them on UNIX/Linux as I had before, I'd much rather put that time toward earning $$$. This is a HUGE loss.
Cloud and privacy do not go together. Furthermore, cloud-based services are not as responsive as locally maintained services. Business-critical, proprietary information has no business being in the cloud (sitting on someone else's systems), and neither does sensitive personal information. It has been a big advantage using Server on a secure platform produced by a U.S.-based company that is concerned about privacy and security.
Apple can no longer say it cares that much about privacy or security when it takes away Server. Apple does stand to make more money by offering cloud services replacements, though--it cares about its shareholders more than privacy/security, and Apple management doesn't have the vision to make Server better.
The only way they could gain hardware sales is by selling cheap hardware and that would mean ARM servers. Without their own hardware, they'd have to make an OS for 3rd party hardware and this means software licensing, which is an immediate barrier vs free Linux. One thing they could do is offer a free server OS based on iOS and make revenue with a server App Store. It wouldn't come close to the App Store in revenue because that has over 1 billion users. They'd only get a few million server downloads at most but if they have some monthly software licenses that add up to around $10/user/month, it can generate $1b/year.
The only people using these features anyways are hobbyists in my opinion. Any company who was relying on most of these services that are being discontinued is playing with fire. Good riddance and glad Apple is focusing on the more useful services of the Server app, even it it is becoming a non server app.
... These are definitely my own opinions, but my opinions come from a place of experience, certifications, and actually supporting users who use to use OS X Server and or were sold it by Apple retail staff as a be all end all to all their problems.
So did I until they were forced out by an IT manager who knew nothing about supporting Macs in a publishing environment (not a small one either) throwing in a bunch of used Windows servers that messed everything up. Of course my multiple Xserve installation was installed years ago and it provided everything my Mac users needed. Times change but lack of Mac-centric support is still a common problem in government installations. This was one of the reasons I changed departments after 25 years.
Apple will not sign a HIPPA IT partner agreement mandated by HSS for any of their iCloud services.
That single issue right there blocks the use of iCloud for a medical office.
I truly do appreciate the easier admin UI and put the time and money savings to other good use. OS X server is responsible for the sale of 9x current MacBook/MacBook Pros, 10x current iPads, 5x 27” iMacs, 16x current iPhones, plus one lowly quad core Mac Mini with it’s RAID storage array.
Synchronizing Contacts, Calendars, iMessages and much more are critical functions that I would prefer to have in an easy to use interface.
But, my guess is Tim doesn’t care about that kind of business.
As a technical type person but a non-server admin, I never could get much of anything to work other than the file server and VPN.
I couldn't get VPN to work because I couldn't figure out the right settings for my Fios router. That was the feature I was most looking forward to using too.
being stripped out in spring, including Calendar, Websites, Mai..."
I'm trying to work out what's actually left! Oh I know, FTP!
Honestly, we only use server where I work for Netbooting and file sharing. If Apple were to include Netboot support into macOS, I don't really see any reason to run Server anymore, at least for us. At one time, I did have a wiki server running, but we've since moved everything on that over to an Office365 SharePoint site. I guess some may use Open Directory for user accounts and such, so it will be interesting to see how Apple manages that going forward. Not everyone uses Active Directory for their user management.
I was kidding too, I use Crush FTP, I gave up on Mac OS Server years ago. Flakey wasn't close.
MacPro said: I was kidding too, I use Crush FTP, I gave up on Mac OS Server years ago. Flakey wasn't close.
We don't use FTP anymore. We use HTML5 Ajax, drag and drop with lots of file management capabilities. Google drive is very full featured but if you want to stay away from Google, check out File Run. Pretty sweet app from Sweden that offers all the same features as Drive and is completely white box so you can brand it if you want.
So let's say I wanted to host an email server on my Mac Mini after Server has been stripped of Mail. Are the mail server apps I can get that will run on Mac OS and work safely?
So let's say I wanted to host an email server on my Mac Mini after Server has been stripped of Mail. Are the mail server apps I can get that will run on Mac OS and work safely?
Sure there are mail apps for Mac but it isn’t really a good idea to run a local mail server. For one you need DNS, SSL and a domain in order to be an acceptable server to most other providers. Otherwise your mail may be blocked. Two, you need professional virus scanning, file attachment size limitations, SMTP restrictions etc. You really need to be qualified programmer to protect against hackers. Much simpler to use a professional cloud mail service. Many are free.
So let's say I wanted to host an email server on my Mac Mini after Server has been stripped of Mail. Are the mail server apps I can get that will run on Mac OS and work safely?
The link provided to the note to users has several alternatives for each listed.
The only people using these features anyways are hobbyists in my opinion. Any company who was relying on most of these services that are being discontinued is playing with fire. Good riddance and glad Apple is focusing on the more useful services of the Server app, even it it is becoming a non server app.
When my last office's Xserve shit the bed, one of their IT consultants sold them a homemade Linux box that sounded great on paper. I spent the next six months trying to get file sharing working properly with several large, aging volumes of Mac-centric files with an all-Mac shop, and never fully got it working due to terrible glitches having to do with certain troublesome characters in thousands of filenames. It was an absolute nightmare, and we eventually shut down for other reasons and I sold the box for a fraction of what we paid for it, after spending thousands on trying to get it working to begin with.
When we essentially downsized and moved, I set them up with a Mac mini running Server and a Drobo for file sharing, along with VPN, caching server, and a wiki if we ever needed it (we didn't) in an afternoon and some change. It's been serving us well for three or four years now. This isn't a hobby business, it's a small shop that doesn't have an IT department beyond me (and I'm not an employee, I just have a desk here) and needs a easy to manage and reliable file sharing / vpn setup. A mini running Server was perfect for this.
I was already not looking forward to upgrading to High Sierra in case the switch from Server to built-in macOS system prefs for File Sharing and Caching Server was going to cause any issues I'd have to troubleshoot, and now I'm definitely not looking forward to having to figure out a new VPN system, etc.
Comments
In my years of experience, the only people running this software at a small business are " do it your selfers" and people who love to tinker with stuff like that. Of course there are exceptions, but I stand by my statements.
Yep ... these hit the nail on the head.
These are definitely my own opinions, but my opinions come from a place of experience, certifications, and actually supporting users who use to use OS X Server and or were sold it by Apple retail staff as a be all end all to all their problems.
https://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=https://www.apple.com
There are some other details in their job offers:
https://jobs.apple.com/us/search?jobFunction=MIS#function&t=0&sb=req_open_dt&so=1&j=MIS&lo=0*USA&pN=0&openJobId=113457136
They mention Linux, Apache, Java, JBoss, Tomcat, Lucene/Solr ( search technology https://lucene.apache.org ), MySQL, no-SQL, Cassandra, Oracle.
The main issue with Apple and server-side adoption isn't software but hardware. They don't sell hardware suitable for using as a server. When they did, they had ~1% marketshare ( https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Apples_Server_Market_Share_Grows_273_From_Xserve ).
The only way they could gain hardware sales is by selling cheap hardware and that would mean ARM servers. Without their own hardware, they'd have to make an OS for 3rd party hardware and this means software licensing, which is an immediate barrier vs free Linux. One thing they could do is offer a free server OS based on iOS and make revenue with a server App Store. It wouldn't come close to the App Store in revenue because that has over 1 billion users. They'd only get a few million server downloads at most but if they have some monthly software licenses that add up to around $10/user/month, it can generate $1b/year.
I truly do appreciate the easier admin UI and put the time and money savings to other good use. OS X server is responsible for the sale of 9x current MacBook/MacBook Pros, 10x current iPads, 5x 27” iMacs, 16x current iPhones, plus one lowly quad core Mac Mini with it’s RAID storage array.
Synchronizing Contacts, Calendars, iMessages and much more are critical functions that I would prefer to have in an easy to use interface.
But, my guess is Tim doesn’t care about that kind of business.
and a domain in order to be an acceptable server to most other providers. Otherwise your mail may be blocked. Two, you need professional virus scanning, file attachment size limitations, SMTP restrictions etc. You really need to be qualified programmer to protect against hackers. Much simpler to use a professional cloud mail service. Many are free.
When we essentially downsized and moved, I set them up with a Mac mini running Server and a Drobo for file sharing, along with VPN, caching server, and a wiki if we ever needed it (we didn't) in an afternoon and some change. It's been serving us well for three or four years now. This isn't a hobby business, it's a small shop that doesn't have an IT department beyond me (and I'm not an employee, I just have a desk here) and needs a easy to manage and reliable file sharing / vpn setup. A mini running Server was perfect for this.
I was already not looking forward to upgrading to High Sierra in case the switch from Server to built-in macOS system prefs for File Sharing and Caching Server was going to cause any issues I'd have to troubleshoot, and now I'm definitely not looking forward to having to figure out a new VPN system, etc.