First look: IOGear USB-C Compact Docking Station returns legacy ports to MacBook, MacBook ...

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  • Reply 21 of 26
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 3,332administrator
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port. 

    One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10? I know Steve was still alive when the Thunderbolt Display was released in the summer of 2011, but Steve was very sick and was not running Apple anymore at that point. 

    In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that  obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right? 

    Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays. 

    Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for six years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal. 

    My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook  until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple. 

    I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem. You do not understand, Tim, what brought us as customers to Apple way before the iPhone was released. You are destroying the solid foundation upon which Apple has built its success. 

    I'm a little confused.

    You like the MacBook for its ONE USB-C port, but dislike the MacBook Pro for its FOUR Thunderbolt 3 ports? You know that the product discussed above works with the MacBook Pro too, right?

    To answer your other questions: Will "traditional ports" find their way back to the MacBook Pro. As the TB3 ports are also standard USB 3.1 generation 2 type-C ports, I'd say no.
    Will the MacBook get an additional USB 3.1 type C port? Maybe, but we're not seeing any rumors suggesting that it will.

    I also think you're mis-remembering "consistency and backward compatibility." See also: AppleTalk, AAUI, ADB, HDI-45, DB-15, DB8 serial, USB in the first place, FireWire, the Mezzanine port, et al.
    I dislike MacBook Pro for the lack of non-USB-C ports. Whereas I was making progress persuading fellow engineers to switch from Windows laptops to the 2015 MacBook Pro, I would never advise anyone to switch to the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro, as they would be much better served by a professional Windows laptop. 

    Retina MacBook is not a professional laptop, so an argument can be made that it doesn't need to have a bunch of different ports. However, with the current generation of Retina MacBooks you can barely use it for anything other than Web surfing and FaceBook feed reading at all, since there's only one peripheral port on it, which happens to be the same port that the MacBook charges through. So, expecting non-USB-C ports on the Retina MacBook is not even a realistic request to make at this point, but it is INSANE to settle for one port on the Retina MacBook Pro. All the arguments that "the future is wireless" hold no water for me because I'm not living in "the future". I'm living in the present, where I need to be able to connect to peripherals without logging with me a briefcase full of dongles. 

    As far as FireWire goes, you probably remember that Apple brought it back after dropping it in 2008 MacBook Pros. Very few were still using FireWire when Apple dropped it the second time. For now, there are no projectors, no TVs, etc. that use USB-C connectors. All the engineering peripherals that use USB are the USB-A form factor. Most external drives are USB-A, etc. Perhaps in 4-5 years, there will be a good reason to drop HDMI, mDP, and USB-A, but that is in the future. People need Pro machines for the present. 
    Chicken or the egg argument. USB was available in PCs with little traction before the iMac. Then things came around.

    USB-C was available in PCs, with little traction before the MacBook Pro. We're still in the adjustment phase right now. So, which is it -- does the port need to be well adopted before you're okay with a switch? What forces the switch in the first place?

    Regarding your previous comment to another user about USB-C to Gig-E, there are about 10 different companies that have a $13 or so USB-C to Gig-E dongle. 

    I understand your workflow differs from mine, and that's fine, but I'm curious. What dongles do you carry, and why?
    Right now in my bag I carry dongles for Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet, Thunderbolt2-to-DVI, and Thunderbolt2-to-VGA. I also have a set of these dongles at work and a set of these dongles at home. Keeping three sets of dongles is necessary so that I don't end up going to a client to make a presentation without a necessary dongle because I either left it at home, left it at work, or lost it.

    If I had a 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro, I would need the following dongles: 

    USB-C to USB-A
    Thunderbolt3(USB-C form factor)-to-Thunderbolt2
    Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet
    USB-C-to-DVI
    USB-C-to-VGA
    USB-C-to-HDMI

    I can't use a cheap USB-C-to-GigabitEthernet dongle because it is unreliable due to the nature of USB, which doesn't provide low latency, low-jitter and high throughput connection that I must have. I must use the Thunderbolt bus to connect to the Ethernet.  I'm a network engineer, and I rely on my MacBook Pro to be the baseline when I troubleshooting a network. 

    Now, multiply that number of dongles (six in total) by three, and you will see how ridiculous it gets for a professional with a 2016-2017 MacBook Pro. I will have to buy 18 dongles in total. If Apple forces my hand, I will buy a professional Windows laptop that has all the necessary ports that I need and install Linux on it. It will be a sad day when I have to abandon the Mac platform, but I see no resolution to my predicament within the next couple years when I will have to upgrade my 2015 MacBook Pro. My only hope is that Tim is forced out of Apple and a reasonable person who understands technology (and not just a logistics genius) becomes the next CEO. 
    I think you know full well that the older ports aren't coming back. Regardless if you like it or not, though, USB-C is the future.

    Plus, there is no way that the shareholders or the board is going to force him out, not with these returns. Cook does understand technology, and the market. He just doesn't see it the same way you do.

    If the Linux laptop is the right tool for the job, no joke, you should be doing that.
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port. 

    One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10? I know Steve was still alive when the Thunderbolt Display was released in the summer of 2011, but Steve was very sick and was not running Apple anymore at that point. 

    In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that  obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right? 

    Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays. 

    Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for six years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal. 

    My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook  until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple. 

    I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem. You do not understand, Tim, what brought us as customers to Apple way before the iPhone was released. You are destroying the solid foundation upon which Apple has built its success. 

    I'm a little confused.

    You like the MacBook for its ONE USB-C port, but dislike the MacBook Pro for its FOUR Thunderbolt 3 ports? You know that the product discussed above works with the MacBook Pro too, right?

    To answer your other questions: Will "traditional ports" find their way back to the MacBook Pro. As the TB3 ports are also standard USB 3.1 generation 2 type-C ports, I'd say no.
    Will the MacBook get an additional USB 3.1 type C port? Maybe, but we're not seeing any rumors suggesting that it will.

    I also think you're mis-remembering "consistency and backward compatibility." See also: AppleTalk, AAUI, ADB, HDI-45, DB-15, DB8 serial, USB in the first place, FireWire, the Mezzanine port, et al.
    I dislike MacBook Pro for the lack of non-USB-C ports. Whereas I was making progress persuading fellow engineers to switch from Windows laptops to the 2015 MacBook Pro, I would never advise anyone to switch to the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro, as they would be much better served by a professional Windows laptop. 

    Retina MacBook is not a professional laptop, so an argument can be made that it doesn't need to have a bunch of different ports. However, with the current generation of Retina MacBooks you can barely use it for anything other than Web surfing and FaceBook feed reading at all, since there's only one peripheral port on it, which happens to be the same port that the MacBook charges through. So, expecting non-USB-C ports on the Retina MacBook is not even a realistic request to make at this point, but it is INSANE to settle for one port on the Retina MacBook Pro. All the arguments that "the future is wireless" hold no water for me because I'm not living in "the future". I'm living in the present, where I need to be able to connect to peripherals without logging with me a briefcase full of dongles. 

    As far as FireWire goes, you probably remember that Apple brought it back after dropping it in 2008 MacBook Pros. Very few were still using FireWire when Apple dropped it the second time. For now, there are no projectors, no TVs, etc. that use USB-C connectors. All the engineering peripherals that use USB are the USB-A form factor. Most external drives are USB-A, etc. Perhaps in 4-5 years, there will be a good reason to drop HDMI, mDP, and USB-A, but that is in the future. People need Pro machines for the present. 
    Chicken or the egg argument. USB was available in PCs with little traction before the iMac. Then things came around.

    USB-C was available in PCs, with little traction before the MacBook Pro. We're still in the adjustment phase right now. So, which is it -- does the port need to be well adopted before you're okay with a switch? What forces the switch in the first place?

    Regarding your previous comment to another user about USB-C to Gig-E, there are about 10 different companies that have a $13 or so USB-C to Gig-E dongle. 

    I understand your workflow differs from mine, and that's fine, but I'm curious. What dongles do you carry, and why?
    Right now in my bag I carry dongles for Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet, Thunderbolt2-to-DVI, and Thunderbolt2-to-VGA. I also have a set of these dongles at work and a set of these dongles at home. Keeping three sets of dongles is necessary so that I don't end up going to a client to make a presentation without a necessary dongle because I either left it at home, left it at work, or lost it.

    If I had a 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro, I would need the following dongles: 

    USB-C to USB-A
    Thunderbolt3(USB-C form factor)-to-Thunderbolt2
    Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet
    USB-C-to-DVI
    USB-C-to-VGA
    USB-C-to-HDMI

    I can't use a cheap USB-C-to-GigabitEthernet dongle because it is unreliable due to the nature of USB, which doesn't provide low latency, low-jitter and high throughput connection that I must have. I must use the Thunderbolt bus to connect to the Ethernet.  I'm a network engineer, and I rely on my MacBook Pro to be the baseline when I troubleshooting a network. 

    Now, multiply that number of dongles (six in total) by three, and you will see how ridiculous it gets for a professional with a 2016-2017 MacBook Pro. I will have to buy 18 dongles in total. If Apple forces my hand, I will buy a professional Windows laptop that has all the necessary ports that I need and install Linux on it. It will be a sad day when I have to abandon the Mac platform, but I see no resolution to my predicament within the next couple years when I will have to upgrade my 2015 MacBook Pro. My only hope is that Tim is forced out of Apple and a reasonable person who understands technology (and not just a logistics genius) becomes the next CEO. 
    I think you know full well that the older ports aren't coming back. Regardless if you like it or not, though, USB-C is the future.

    Plus, there is no way that the shareholders or the board is going to force him out, not with these returns. Cook does understand technology, and the market. He just doesn't see it the same way you do.

    If the Linux laptop is the right tool for the job, no joke, you should be doing that.
    This year will tell if the *legacy* ports are coming back. Apple can drop Thunderbolt2/mDP ports, in favor of Thunderbolt3 ports, since the Thunderbolt2/mDP form factor was proprietary anyway (as long as they release the Thunderbolt3-to-GigabitEthernet dongle), but HDMI and USB-A ports must come back. Additionally, the ridiculous Touch Bar should be an option; people shouldn't be forced to get it if they want a 15" MacBook Pro. The very fact that Apple never released an external keyboard with the Touch Bar says everything one needs to know about how important Touch Bar is. One can't even use the Touch Bar with the iMac, iMac Pro, or if the MacBook Pro is on an elevated stand. Hence, Touch Bar was not even meant for the professional market segment. It is silly fluff that should not be forced down my throat.
    I get that you want the older ports. I just don't think that it's realistic to expect that you'll get them back with a line redesign. We don't think there's going to be a chassis change this year, and that includes the USB-C form-factor case penetrations. I wouldn't count on an Apple-produced native TB3 to Gig-E dongle either.

    I have no strong opinions on the Touch Bar one way or another, the same as I had no opinion on the F-Keys.
    edited February 13
  • Reply 22 of 26
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port. 

    One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10? I know Steve was still alive when the Thunderbolt Display was released in the summer of 2011, but Steve was very sick and was not running Apple anymore at that point. 

    In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that  obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right? 

    Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays. 

    Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for six years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal. 

    My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook  until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple. 

    I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem. You do not understand, Tim, what brought us as customers to Apple way before the iPhone was released. You are destroying the solid foundation upon which Apple has built its success. 

    I'm a little confused.

    You like the MacBook for its ONE USB-C port, but dislike the MacBook Pro for its FOUR Thunderbolt 3 ports? You know that the product discussed above works with the MacBook Pro too, right?

    To answer your other questions: Will "traditional ports" find their way back to the MacBook Pro. As the TB3 ports are also standard USB 3.1 generation 2 type-C ports, I'd say no.
    Will the MacBook get an additional USB 3.1 type C port? Maybe, but we're not seeing any rumors suggesting that it will.

    I also think you're mis-remembering "consistency and backward compatibility." See also: AppleTalk, AAUI, ADB, HDI-45, DB-15, DB8 serial, USB in the first place, FireWire, the Mezzanine port, et al.
    I dislike MacBook Pro for the lack of non-USB-C ports. Whereas I was making progress persuading fellow engineers to switch from Windows laptops to the 2015 MacBook Pro, I would never advise anyone to switch to the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro, as they would be much better served by a professional Windows laptop. 

    Retina MacBook is not a professional laptop, so an argument can be made that it doesn't need to have a bunch of different ports. However, with the current generation of Retina MacBooks you can barely use it for anything other than Web surfing and FaceBook feed reading at all, since there's only one peripheral port on it, which happens to be the same port that the MacBook charges through. So, expecting non-USB-C ports on the Retina MacBook is not even a realistic request to make at this point, but it is INSANE to settle for one port on the Retina MacBook Pro. All the arguments that "the future is wireless" hold no water for me because I'm not living in "the future". I'm living in the present, where I need to be able to connect to peripherals without logging with me a briefcase full of dongles. 

    As far as FireWire goes, you probably remember that Apple brought it back after dropping it in 2008 MacBook Pros. Very few were still using FireWire when Apple dropped it the second time. For now, there are no projectors, no TVs, etc. that use USB-C connectors. All the engineering peripherals that use USB are the USB-A form factor. Most external drives are USB-A, etc. Perhaps in 4-5 years, there will be a good reason to drop HDMI, mDP, and USB-A, but that is in the future. People need Pro machines for the present. 
    Chicken or the egg argument. USB was available in PCs with little traction before the iMac. Then things came around.

    USB-C was available in PCs, with little traction before the MacBook Pro. We're still in the adjustment phase right now. So, which is it -- does the port need to be well adopted before you're okay with a switch? What forces the switch in the first place?

    Regarding your previous comment to another user about USB-C to Gig-E, there are about 10 different companies that have a $13 or so USB-C to Gig-E dongle. 

    I understand your workflow differs from mine, and that's fine, but I'm curious. What dongles do you carry, and why?
    Right now in my bag I carry dongles for Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet, Thunderbolt2-to-DVI, and Thunderbolt2-to-VGA. I also have a set of these dongles at work and a set of these dongles at home. Keeping three sets of dongles is necessary so that I don't end up going to a client to make a presentation without a necessary dongle because I either left it at home, left it at work, or lost it.

    If I had a 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro, I would need the following dongles: 

    USB-C to USB-A
    Thunderbolt3(USB-C form factor)-to-Thunderbolt2
    Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet
    USB-C-to-DVI
    USB-C-to-VGA
    USB-C-to-HDMI

    I can't use a cheap USB-C-to-GigabitEthernet dongle because it is unreliable due to the nature of USB, which doesn't provide low latency, low-jitter and high throughput connection that I must have. I must use the Thunderbolt bus to connect to the Ethernet.  I'm a network engineer, and I rely on my MacBook Pro to be the baseline when I troubleshooting a network. 

    Now, multiply that number of dongles (six in total) by three, and you will see how ridiculous it gets for a professional with a 2016-2017 MacBook Pro. I will have to buy 18 dongles in total. If Apple forces my hand, I will buy a professional Windows laptop that has all the necessary ports that I need and install Linux on it. It will be a sad day when I have to abandon the Mac platform, but I see no resolution to my predicament within the next couple years when I will have to upgrade my 2015 MacBook Pro. My only hope is that Tim is forced out of Apple and a reasonable person who understands technology (and not just a logistics genius) becomes the next CEO. 
    I think you know full well that the older ports aren't coming back. Regardless if you like it or not, though, USB-C is the future.

    Plus, there is no way that the shareholders or the board is going to force him out, not with these returns. Cook does understand technology, and the market. He just doesn't see it the same way you do.

    If the Linux laptop is the right tool for the job, no joke, you should be doing that.
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    sirozha said:
    This is an excellent "dock" for a Retina MacBook (2015, 2016, 2017), since the MacBook has only one USB-C port. 

    One of the stupidest things that Apple has done is prevent the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks from connecting to the Apple's own LED Thunderbolt Display. The fact that Apple even released the Thunderbolt Display without a mDP capability was one of the first steps down the slippery slope of destroying Apple's own ecosystem. Only a bean counter would make a decision to release a new monitor that obsoletes most every computer that was released prior to it. How much would it take to keep the mDP capability in the Thunderbolt Display? By how much would it increase its cost - $10? I know Steve was still alive when the Thunderbolt Display was released in the summer of 2011, but Steve was very sick and was not running Apple anymore at that point. 

    In its infinite wisdom, Apple introduced the 2015 MacBook (followed by 2016 and 2017 MacBooks) that  obsoleted the Thunderbolt Display. Do two wrongs make it right? 

    Even though theoretically the 2015-2017 Retina MacBooks can connect to the Apple's LED Cinema Display, there was not a good solution for it, since the bean counter decided to put only one port in the MacBook. Hence, charging the MacBook and connecting to the LED Cinema Display was either not possible or required a series of daisy-chained dongles of dubious origin. So, basically, Tim the Bean Counter sent hundreds of thousands of Apple's long-term customers a big and juicy "FU" in the form of the Retina MacBook and the lack of Apple-manufactured dongles that would allow the Retina MacBook to connect to either of the Apple own LED displays. 

    Personally, I'm stuck with the 2015 15" MacBook Pro, which I consider to be the last real Pro laptop in the Apple's glorious history. I'm also using the LED Cinema Display with this Mac in a two-display setup (external LED Cinema Display and MacBook Pro's own display with the MacBook Pro being on an elevated stand). I have been using this setup for six years now, and it fits my needs perfectly. The LED Cinema Display (I bought it intentionally over the Thunderbolt Display even though both were available) works great for what I do. It's not a 4K display, but for my work, this display is phenomenal. 

    My problem is that I see no upgrade path for my 2015 MacBook Pro. I will NOT go down the 2016 MacBook Pro path, as I believe Apple had lost its mind when it removed all non-USB-C ports from the MacBook Pro in 2016 and instead put in four USB-C ports and a stupid Touch Bar. Unless Apple wises up, I'm done with the MacBook Pro line. Hence, the MacBook is my only hope going forward, and this dock is something that can serve as a stop gap for the next few years to tie me over with the Retina MacBook  until Apple shareholders (to whom I belong as well) throw out the bean counter. If we don't do this now, the dude will completely destroy the Apple ecosystem, and with it, it will bring down Apple. 

    I'm still on the fence about getting a Retina MacBook, waiting for Apple to throw another curve ball this year with their MacBooks and MacBook Pros. Will traditional ports find their way back to the MacBook Pro line this year? Will the Retina MacBook acquire at least one more port? Thanks Tim for "f#ck1ng up" Steve's legacy with your total annihilation of the consistency and backward compatibility in the Apple ecosystem. You do not understand, Tim, what brought us as customers to Apple way before the iPhone was released. You are destroying the solid foundation upon which Apple has built its success. 

    I'm a little confused.

    You like the MacBook for its ONE USB-C port, but dislike the MacBook Pro for its FOUR Thunderbolt 3 ports? You know that the product discussed above works with the MacBook Pro too, right?

    To answer your other questions: Will "traditional ports" find their way back to the MacBook Pro. As the TB3 ports are also standard USB 3.1 generation 2 type-C ports, I'd say no.
    Will the MacBook get an additional USB 3.1 type C port? Maybe, but we're not seeing any rumors suggesting that it will.

    I also think you're mis-remembering "consistency and backward compatibility." See also: AppleTalk, AAUI, ADB, HDI-45, DB-15, DB8 serial, USB in the first place, FireWire, the Mezzanine port, et al.
    I dislike MacBook Pro for the lack of non-USB-C ports. Whereas I was making progress persuading fellow engineers to switch from Windows laptops to the 2015 MacBook Pro, I would never advise anyone to switch to the 2016-2017 MacBook Pro, as they would be much better served by a professional Windows laptop. 

    Retina MacBook is not a professional laptop, so an argument can be made that it doesn't need to have a bunch of different ports. However, with the current generation of Retina MacBooks you can barely use it for anything other than Web surfing and FaceBook feed reading at all, since there's only one peripheral port on it, which happens to be the same port that the MacBook charges through. So, expecting non-USB-C ports on the Retina MacBook is not even a realistic request to make at this point, but it is INSANE to settle for one port on the Retina MacBook Pro. All the arguments that "the future is wireless" hold no water for me because I'm not living in "the future". I'm living in the present, where I need to be able to connect to peripherals without logging with me a briefcase full of dongles. 

    As far as FireWire goes, you probably remember that Apple brought it back after dropping it in 2008 MacBook Pros. Very few were still using FireWire when Apple dropped it the second time. For now, there are no projectors, no TVs, etc. that use USB-C connectors. All the engineering peripherals that use USB are the USB-A form factor. Most external drives are USB-A, etc. Perhaps in 4-5 years, there will be a good reason to drop HDMI, mDP, and USB-A, but that is in the future. People need Pro machines for the present. 
    Chicken or the egg argument. USB was available in PCs with little traction before the iMac. Then things came around.

    USB-C was available in PCs, with little traction before the MacBook Pro. We're still in the adjustment phase right now. So, which is it -- does the port need to be well adopted before you're okay with a switch? What forces the switch in the first place?

    Regarding your previous comment to another user about USB-C to Gig-E, there are about 10 different companies that have a $13 or so USB-C to Gig-E dongle. 

    I understand your workflow differs from mine, and that's fine, but I'm curious. What dongles do you carry, and why?
    Right now in my bag I carry dongles for Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet, Thunderbolt2-to-DVI, and Thunderbolt2-to-VGA. I also have a set of these dongles at work and a set of these dongles at home. Keeping three sets of dongles is necessary so that I don't end up going to a client to make a presentation without a necessary dongle because I either left it at home, left it at work, or lost it.

    If I had a 2016 or 2017 MacBook Pro, I would need the following dongles: 

    USB-C to USB-A
    Thunderbolt3(USB-C form factor)-to-Thunderbolt2
    Thunderbolt2-to-GigabitEthernet
    USB-C-to-DVI
    USB-C-to-VGA
    USB-C-to-HDMI

    I can't use a cheap USB-C-to-GigabitEthernet dongle because it is unreliable due to the nature of USB, which doesn't provide low latency, low-jitter and high throughput connection that I must have. I must use the Thunderbolt bus to connect to the Ethernet.  I'm a network engineer, and I rely on my MacBook Pro to be the baseline when I troubleshooting a network. 

    Now, multiply that number of dongles (six in total) by three, and you will see how ridiculous it gets for a professional with a 2016-2017 MacBook Pro. I will have to buy 18 dongles in total. If Apple forces my hand, I will buy a professional Windows laptop that has all the necessary ports that I need and install Linux on it. It will be a sad day when I have to abandon the Mac platform, but I see no resolution to my predicament within the next couple years when I will have to upgrade my 2015 MacBook Pro. My only hope is that Tim is forced out of Apple and a reasonable person who understands technology (and not just a logistics genius) becomes the next CEO. 
    I think you know full well that the older ports aren't coming back. Regardless if you like it or not, though, USB-C is the future.

    Plus, there is no way that the shareholders or the board is going to force him out, not with these returns. Cook does understand technology, and the market. He just doesn't see it the same way you do.

    If the Linux laptop is the right tool for the job, no joke, you should be doing that.
    This year will tell if the *legacy* ports are coming back. Apple can drop Thunderbolt2/mDP ports, in favor of Thunderbolt3 ports, since the Thunderbolt2/mDP form factor was proprietary anyway (as long as they release the Thunderbolt3-to-GigabitEthernet dongle), but HDMI and USB-A ports must come back. Additionally, the ridiculous Touch Bar should be an option; people shouldn't be forced to get it if they want a 15" MacBook Pro. The very fact that Apple never released an external keyboard with the Touch Bar says everything one needs to know about how important Touch Bar is. One can't even use the Touch Bar with the iMac, iMac Pro, or if the MacBook Pro is on an elevated stand. Hence, Touch Bar was not even meant for the professional market segment. It is silly fluff that should not be forced down my throat.
    I get that you want the older ports. I just don't think that it's realistic to expect that you'll get them back with a line redesign. We don't think there's going to be a chassis change this year, and that includes the USB-C form-factor case penetrations. I wouldn't count on an Apple-produced native TB3 to Gig-E dongle either.

    I have no strong opinions on the Touch Bar one way or another, the same as I had no opinion on the F-Keys.
    Good discussion. We shall see. 
  • Reply 23 of 26
    chasmchasm Posts: 849member
    sirozha said:
    Actually, the battle with the Ethernet port was lost a long time ago, but as long as it only required one dongle it was still doable. With the 2016 MacBook Pro, Apple didn't even bother to release a Thunderbolt3-to-GigabitEthernet dongle, so one had to use two daisy chained dongles (Thunderbolt3-to-Thunderbolt2 and Thunderbolt2-to GigabitEthernet) to get a wired Ethernet connection on the "MacBook Pro". With the Retina MacBook, Apple doesn't even offer a solution for wired Ethernet.


    Your claim here is true, but ignores a wide variety of third-party direct USB-C to Ethernet adapters, which is cheating a bit methinks. Why Apple didn't make one I can't say, but that doesn't make it true that there aren't cheap and plentiful solutions.

    Apple sells this one right on their store site: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HJKF2ZM/A/belkin-usb-c-to-gigabit-ethernet-adapter

    And since USB-C can more than handle 1Gb/sec transfers, I'm not sure why you think you need a TB3 to Gb Ethernet adapter. How would you even know it from a USB-C one?
    edited February 14 roundaboutnow
  • Reply 24 of 26
    chasmchasm Posts: 849member
    I could see this as a handy utility for presenters -- one device that offers HDMI (which most projectors use now), VGA (for legacy projectors), headphone jack for sound to accompany the VGA video, etc. Not sure that's a huge market, but having that all in one unit that can also charge a MacBook or MBP via passthrough seems pretty useful.
  • Reply 25 of 26
    Sounds like the same thing as the Hyperdrive Ultimate I have, but $40+ cheaper.
  • Reply 26 of 26
    Ah, those legacy arguments.

    I mean these ports are already the fastest and the most versatile on the market, what else could you want?

    It all depends on how individuals uses them.  Otherwise, why did they pay for the laptops?
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