French court denies Apple injunction against tax protests

Posted:
in General Discussion
A Parisian court has blocked Apple's attempt to prevent Attac -- the Association for the Taxation of Financial Transactions and Citizen's Action -- from staging protests at the company's French retail stores.




As part of a recent lawsuit, Apple had been seeking a three-year ban under the threat of a 150,000-euro fine, MacGeneration said on Friday. The company was also pursuing 3,000 euros in damages following a wave of protests in December.

The court found however that Apple couldn't identify any immediate damages, and ordered Apple to pay Attac 2,000 euros in legal fees.

In a statement, Attac argued that simply entering places like Apple Opera "without violence, without degradation, and without blocking the access of the store to shoppers" didn't cause any damages, and was not a valid reason for limiting Attac's freedoms.

In fact images and video from the Opera protest showed no permanent impact. The closest thing to violence was when Attac originally entered the store, since some shoving took place.

Apple is known to use elaborate loopholes to pay minimal taxes on its overseas revenue. In August 2016, though, the European Commission ordered Ireland to collect billions in back taxes, charging that it had extended preferential tax arrangements -- something illegal under E.U. law. The Irish government has been slow to collect the money, prompting the Commission to take it to court.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 44
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 1,722member
    I don’t know French law. In the US a store is private property and the owner can restrict protests on their own property. Is this not true in Francs?
    bshankwatto_cobraairnerd
  • Reply 2 of 44
    bshankbshank Posts: 220member
    So in France “some shoving” is no biggie, huh? Good to know
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 44
    bshankbshank Posts: 220member
    DAalseth said:
    I don’t know French law. In the US a store is private property and the owner can restrict protests on their own property. Is this not true in Francs?
    In the EU if a private company or their private property or website is a place people like a lot, apparently it is magically deemed a public service (like when the EU tried to claim Google cannot charge for ad placements on their website since it is “unfair” against those companies who don’t pay for ads)... and if they don’t like it they can apparently intrude and assault people who choose to try to have a peaceful shopping experience 
    edited February 2018 tallest skilrandominternetpersonviclauyycwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 44
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,866member
    Ridiculous. No loitering. Are these anarchists just standing there doing nothing?

    Oh BTW, "Apple is known to use elaborate loopholes" is called following the tax laws. It's not Apple's fault the loopholes exist. 
    bshankracerhomie3mike1tallest skilanton zuykovradarthekatmagman1979jony0watto_cobraairnerd
  • Reply 5 of 44
    bshankbshank Posts: 220member
    jungmark said:
    Ridiculous. No loitering. Are these anarchists just standing there doing nothing?

    Oh BTW, "Apple is known to use elaborate loopholes" is called following the tax laws. It's not Apple's fault the loopholes exist. 
    It almost feels like some sort of candid camera prank where the social experimenter says here is a $100 bill anybody can take for free. Those who decided to take the cash are berated as a-holes by the clueless people who either didn’t know this social experiment was even happening or ignored it and walked by and now they are upset after finding out how dense they were.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 44
    If there are a bunch of people protesting in a store I'd probably go spend my time and money elsewhere. Protesting outside of a store I'd just ignore them, go around them and go in and shop.
    randominternetpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 44
    Ugh, why is "Tax Avoidance" treated as "Tax Evasion". Why do people who think this way confuse the 2? If they are SO UPSET that APPLE has LEGALLY avoided paying a tax  they demand they pay, then these same "tax moralists" should just pay for Apple what it is they think they owe. 

    If only we could audit these TAX Moralists and see if they pay more then they have to, or do things to get them to be taxed more then need be.  

    Edit for replacing a wrong word used. 
    edited February 2018 tallest skilradarthekatjony0watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 44
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,439member
    Here come the defenders of the richest corporation in the world. The French have every right to have their own courts, tax laws and laws defining what is a legal or an illegal protest. 
    dacharBubbaTwo
  • Reply 9 of 44
    bshank said:
    ...and if they don’t like it they can apparently intrude and assault people…
    The end result of a social system based on cultural marxist “values” and illegalization of questioning the powers that be, ladies and gents!
    spice-boy said:
    The French have every right to have their own…
    Not in this globalized world, they don’t.
    If only we could audit these TAX Moralists and see if they pay more then they have to, or do things to get them to be taxed more then need be.

    edited February 2018 holmstockdSpamSandwichGG1randominternetpersonradarthekatbshankgtr
  • Reply 10 of 44
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,901member
    jungmark said:
    Ridiculous. No loitering. Are these anarchists just standing there doing nothing?

    Oh BTW, "Apple is known to use elaborate loopholes" is called following the tax laws. It's not Apple's fault the loopholes exist. 
    Technically you are right and most people understand this is how some things work. 

    That, doesn't mean other angles aren't also valid such as ''the spirit of the law'. Something that is being used with more success of late.

    And while Apple and many others have taken advantage of loopholes, it is no less true that it has been accused of bigger things. I wouldn't call its bigger problems with the EU loophole problems nor many other cases involving taxes where it has opted to settle rather than fight.

    To make matters worse IMO, Tim Cook initially defended the company by speaking of Apple's 'values'. That is the kind of stance that actually leads to the actions of attac because when someone throws a phrase (as part of a defence) like 'we pay more taxes than anyone else', people say 'what has that got to do with anything?', especially when it was later revealed that in some cases Apple was effectively deciding - all by itself - how much to make taxable in the first place, so when they say 'we pay all taxes due', the phrase only serves to make certain collectives even angrier.

    AI's reference is OK with me.

    As for Apple, I would simply use the 'reserves the right of admission' stance to refuse them entry
    edited February 2018
  • Reply 11 of 44
    dachardachar Posts: 330member
    Each country has its own culture and beliefs. A French friend once informed me that public protesting is considered a basic right in his country. Apparently it was traditional to hold demonstrations  on Thursdays in Paris. I don’t know if this is still the case but l think it goes some way to explain the French court’s decision. They are probably upholding a French way of life. If Apple understands the importance of not generating bad PR they might want to consider thier position carefully before entering into further legal  action. 
    avon b7BubbaTwo
  • Reply 12 of 44
    DAalseth said:
    I don’t know French law. In the US a store is private property and the owner can restrict protests on their own property. Is this not true in Francs?
    They are a bit socialist-ish, so probably not!
    tallest skil
  • Reply 13 of 44
    bshank said:
    DAalseth said:
    I don’t know French law. In the US a store is private property and the owner can restrict protests on their own property. Is this not true in Francs?
    In the EU if a private company or their private property or website is a place people like a lot, apparently it is magically deemed a public service.
    So they ARE socialist-y and not just by a bit, but by a LOT. Lol. What a joke.

    1. An entrepreneur creates new, useful for customers (aka the people) business.
    2. Gov-t deems it public, since "people like it a lot".
    3. The owner now does not have the full control over his property he created.
    4. Gov-t can cut coupons for being wise and stuff.

    Isn't it just great? I swear I saw that schema working somewhere else (not for long though)... but where was it...

    edited February 2018 tallest skilbshank
  • Reply 14 of 44
    Socialist scumbags.
    tallest skilbshankmagman1979anton zuykov
  • Reply 15 of 44
    How very French, that these ATTAC members are complaining about companies, and directly to Apple, for using these loopholes rather than presenting their protests directly to the EC for not plugging said loopholes. It gives ATTAC members something to do, I suppose, and a feeling they are "doing some good" despite barking up the wrong tree.
    radarthekatbshankanton zuykovhammeroftruthwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 44
    I imagine that if I were a French citizen, I don't think I'd get very fired up about whether or not a US company paid enough taxes to Ireland, especially when Ireland is saying "we're good!" and it's only lawyers somewhere else in Europe complaining. I certainly wouldn't waste one second of my time standing around with a banner to inconvenience shoppers and try to embarrass the US company. But I suppose everyone needs a hobby.
    radarthekatbshankwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 44

    Bogus image since socialist nations walk the walk. And "distribute the wealth" is kind of a silly way to purposefully put it, when we do the exact same thing for a smaller set of services in the US. Public infrastructure and many services such as parks, schools, emergency, medical, retirement, etc etc are the exact same thing.
    radarthekatmuthuk_vanalingamsingularity
  • Reply 18 of 44
    Maybe if they went and stood about inside a Microsoft store, so as to make a stand against anticompetitive licencing and astroturfing, the media might mistake the SurfacePro as being popular and mistakenly advertise those pieces of crap instead. In other news, AI once again fails to provide any balance or insight to an article. A huge amount of silence met this amazingly predictable situation. More details at 11.
  • Reply 19 of 44
    Bogus image since socialist nations walk the walk.
    The one ray of sunlight in my life is the humor I find here.
    And "distribute the wealth" is kind of a silly way to purposefully put it
    You are correct about that. It’s more “Your wealth now belongs to the state. Resist and you will be executed.” than it is a voluntary redistribution, anyway.
    Public infrastructure
    lol!
    and many services such as parks, schools, emergency, medical… ...etc etc are the exact same thing.
    lol
     retirement
    Which isn’t constitutional, but is beside the point.
    SpamSandwichbshank
  • Reply 20 of 44
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,380member
    Bogus image since socialist nations walk the walk.
    The one ray of sunlight in my life is the humor I find here.
    And "distribute the wealth" is kind of a silly way to purposefully put it
    You are correct about that. It’s more “Your wealth now belongs to the state. Resist and you will be executed.” than it is a voluntary redistribution, anyway.
    Public infrastructure
    lol!
    and many services such as parks, schools, emergency, medical… ...etc etc are the exact same thing.
    lol
     retirement
    Which isn’t constitutional, but is beside the point.
    I'm not taking sides here, but we, the normal people sit here in the USA and see 98% of the wealth held by 2% (or some such crazy numbers).  I don't see a hell of a lot of difference either way.  Socialism or Capitalism taken to such extremes means the same, it's masses that get screwed.

    As an aside and not connected to politics, just the French, I have never got over the shock of seeing French farmers stopping British trucks (lorries) in France loaded with sheep and burning them alive as a protest against British imports.
    tallest skil
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