Refurbished, high-end iPhones are suffocating the growth of cheap new Androids

24

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 67
    croprcropr Posts: 954member
    The fastest growing segment in global smartphones isn't Google's vision for super-cheap, simple Android phones.
    Come on AI, I am expecting a higher quality opening line.  If you don't know what Google's vision is, don't make up any biased and suggestive assumptions that are not in line with the facts (look at the prices of Pixel 2 phones).

    I started my app development company in 2012, and in the company we currently have about 15 iPhones and 20 Android phones.  For the employees I am always buying new ones, but I regularly buy refurbished devices for testing purposes.  My experience is that a lot of these devices tend to give much faster defects than new devices, one of the reasons I never buy refurbished ones for employees.

    The moment you buy a decent Android device (>$250), you don't have any performance issues, as the article might suggest.  A Nexus 5X I bought in 2015 still feels very snappy, while the iPhone 6 I bought around the same time is much slower (throttling issue)

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 22 of 67
    Actually that really doesnt help Apple one bit... Selling those "second hand" units as new sales is what Apple would need... But they wanted to hold on to only the hight end and give away the middle range market to Samsung (android) phones. Those are a lot of lost sales for Apple. Now there are people who wouldnt be caught dead buying used hardware, so those really dont have any knowledge of Apple products and they are the people that mostly talk shit about Apple. Maybe cause they might have wanted to try but didnt see the value...
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 23 of 67
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    BubbaTwo said:
    deminsd said:
    The article seems (as usual) extremely biased against Android and for Apple.  Since you can buy $50 Android phones, of course performance issues will be higher than a $600 iPhone. I'm pretty sure if there was a $199 iPhone, it would suck, performance wise, on iOS 11 also.

    And, $50 savings on an iPhone refurb?  I'll take NEW for that extra $50, thank you.  Who would buy a refurb just to save $50?
    Spoken like a person who never ponied up the cash for an iPhone (educated guess). Yes you can get a new Android for $50, but your getting very subpar experience even if it is running a two year old paired down OS, so the hardware is capable of running it. Working in such an environment causes many adverse effects and unintended consequences (is a consequence really unintended if those designing and selling it know in advance and simply don’t care?). These effects are numerous and also don’t lend to a succinct explanation so I’ll spare you, however I would use this, albeit not perfect, anology. Would you rather have a new Kia/Chevy or a year old Mercedes/Toyota.
    Most Kia/Chevy users would probably prefer a Mercedes/Lexus.  However, most Kia/Chevy users can't afford a Mercedes/Lexus and/or they view their car as transportation first and foremost and don't see it as part of their identity nor feel paying the premium price for premium features justifies the purchase.

    Same goes for Smartphones...

    Oh and most Kia/Chevy drivers don't read high end automotive magazines/blogs just as MOST smartphone owners never read a tech blog.

    It would be interesting to read the responses if DED wrote this for an Android blog or a General tech blog versus an Apple blog!
    One wonders why an avowed Samsung Galaxy 8 user on an Apple blog cares so much.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobrabaconstanggregg thurman
  • Reply 24 of 67
    tmay said:

    One wonders why an avowed Samsung Galaxy 8 user on an Apple blog cares so much.
    Perhaps it's  because I used to own an Iphone (and I liked it), I help friends/family with their tech (Mac, Windows, Android, IOS, Chromebook), and I wouldn't rule out purchasing an Iphone in the future nor would I hesitate to validate a friend/family members decision to purchase an Iphone????

    I read and post in Windows and Android blogs regularly too, by the way!  And I have defended IOS in said blogs from time-to-time when warranted!
    muthuk_vanalingamavon b7
  • Reply 25 of 67
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/india-turns-down-apples-request-to-sell-refurbished-iphones-in-the-country/

    It's funny how the Indian government turned up it's nose to refurbished Apple iPhones. Well, I suppose the Indian government had a fairly good reason. Both Apple and Indian consumers could have really benefited from those less expensive iPhones. Refurbished iPhones are perfectly fine. Of course, there are a lot of people in the smartphone industry who do believe that new mid-range Android smartphones are much better than older high-end iPhones. I'm not sure why, but it might be due to a features issue. Newer always means better or something like that. Maybe it has to do with newer Android smartphones having a larger display than older iPhones.

    Anyway, not everyone needs a larger display or all the latest features. I still don't think refurbished iPhones are going to do anything to stop Android smartphone market share percentage from growing even larger, but at least those older iPhones won't be going to waste in some landfill before they become completely useless. I'm sure Wall Street hates the idea that Apple can't sell more new iPhones because older iPhones "last for too long a time." High sales of new products are OK but Earth's resources are limited and if a consumer can get a longer bang for the buck, that's good for consumers and Earth's resources. All Wall Street wants is companies banging out new products every year with a limited lifespan to keep that resource wasting cycle going continuously.
    edited March 2018 radarthekatbaconstang
  • Reply 26 of 67
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,901member
    steven n. said:
    deminsd said:
    The article seems (as usual) extremely biased against Android and for Apple.  Since you can buy $50 Android phones, of course performance issues will be higher than a $600 iPhone. I'm pretty sure if there was a $199 iPhone, it would suck, performance wise, on iOS 11 also.

    And, $50 savings on an iPhone refurb?  I'll take NEW for that extra $50, thank you.  Who would buy a refurb just to save $50?
    Because you can get a good used iPhone from many places other than Apple? As usual, it seems some posters are unable to actually use the internet and think. For example, these are from Glyde:

    iPhone 7: $332
    iPhone 6S: $179
    iPhone 5S: $81

    All of these will run better, work better, and be supported longer than a $300 Android.
    Except for the last one perhaps. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 27 of 67
    deminsd said:
    The article seems (as usual) extremely biased against Android and for Apple.  Since you can buy $50 Android phones, of course performance issues will be higher than a $600 iPhone. I'm pretty sure if there was a $199 iPhone, it would suck, performance wise, on iOS 11 also.

    And, $50 savings on an iPhone refurb?  I'll take NEW for that extra $50, thank you.  Who would buy a refurb just to save $50?
    Dude .
    I still have an iPhone 4 .It is from 2010.
    it still feels faster than a lot of cheap Android phones from today.Good products remain good. Even $700 Galaxys slow down terribly after 2-3 years.The actual culprit is Android.

    Even $700 Galaxys slow down terribly after 2-3 years - Nope, they slow down after 2-3 months.

    The actual culprit is Android. - Nope, the actual culprit is "heavy skins" added by OEMs (like Samsung, LG, Xioami, Asus, Oppo, Vivo) etc. The slow-downs are NOT observed in stock-Android (Google phones) or near-stock Android phones (HTC, Sony, Motorola, OnePlus, HMD/Nokia).

    StevenSterkwatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 67
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    BubbaTwo said:
    tmay said:

    One wonders why an avowed Samsung Galaxy 8 user on an Apple blog cares so much.
    Perhaps it's  because I used to own an Iphone (and I liked it), I help friends/family with their tech (Mac, Windows, Android, IOS, Chromebook), and I wouldn't rule out purchasing an Iphone in the future nor would I hesitate to validate a friend/family members decision to purchase an Iphone????

    I read and post in Windows and Android blogs regularly too, by the way!  And I have defended IOS in said blogs from time-to-time when warranted!
    Yet this story is that Apple leads in refurbished phone sales, followed by Samsung, and together, they account for 75% of the market. It literally isn't Daniel's business to post this on an Android or Google blog. 

    Meanwhile, both Apple and Samsung had record high ASP's for the previous quarter, Apple's being $795 and Samsung's $249. That tells an entire story in itself; people do, in fact aspire to premium features, and more so, buyers of refurbished Apple iPhones are looking to enter into Apple's ecosystem, knowing that they will retain that value until the next purchase, when they can sell it, pass it down, or trade it in on a new iPhone. All those older iPhones are still part of the user base, and the users will almost certainly upgrade to a newer iPhone at some time in the future.

    I would also note, that for whatever the so called throttling or slowness issues of older iPhones, which I consider way overblown, users still maintain a higher value with the iPhone, including iPhones that continue to operate with iOS 11, including the iPhone 5S, introduced on September 20, 2013, benefitting from being the first smartphone on the market with a 64 bit processor. That's 5 years of updates, possibly going on 6.
    edited March 2018 racerhomie3StevenSterkwatto_cobrabaconstang
  • Reply 29 of 67
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/india-turns-down-apples-request-to-sell-refurbished-iphones-in-the-country/

    It's funny how the Indian government turned up it's nose to refurbished Apple iPhones. Well, I suppose the Indian government had a fairly good reason. Both Apple and Indian consumers could have really benefited from those less expensive iPhones.
    I have explained this earlier, I will repeat it again. Indian government DOES ALLOW Apple to sell refurbished iPhones, so long as the original sale was done within India. Indian government does NOT make up a law just for Apple. The law is SAME for ALL OEMs (including Samsung, Xiaomi, Apple etc). The last thing India needs is e-waste from foreign countries dumped in the name of refurbished phones.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 67
    tmay said:
    BubbaTwo said:
    tmay said:

    One wonders why an avowed Samsung Galaxy 8 user on an Apple blog cares so much.
    Perhaps it's  because I used to own an Iphone (and I liked it), I help friends/family with their tech (Mac, Windows, Android, IOS, Chromebook), and I wouldn't rule out purchasing an Iphone in the future nor would I hesitate to validate a friend/family members decision to purchase an Iphone????

    I read and post in Windows and Android blogs regularly too, by the way!  And I have defended IOS in said blogs from time-to-time when warranted!
    Yet this story is that Apple leads in refurbished phone sales, followed by Samsung, and together, they account for 75% of the market. It literally isn't Daniel's business to post this on an Android or Google blog. 

    Meanwhile, both Apple and Samsung had record high ASP's for the previous quarter, Apple's being $795 and Samsung's $249. That tells an entire story in itself; people do, in fact aspire to premium features, and more so, buyers of refurbished Apple iPhones are looking to enter into Apple's ecosystem, knowing that they will retain that value until the next purchase, when they can sell it, pass it down, or trade it in on a new iPhone. All those older iPhones are still part of the user base, and the users will almost certainly upgrade at some time in the future.
    All those older iPhones are still part of the user base, and the users will almost certainly upgrade at some time in the future. - Or continue to be handed down older iPhones from the same people who gave them earlier, without buying any new iPhones ever.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 67
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    tmay said:
    BubbaTwo said:
    tmay said:

    One wonders why an avowed Samsung Galaxy 8 user on an Apple blog cares so much.
    Perhaps it's  because I used to own an Iphone (and I liked it), I help friends/family with their tech (Mac, Windows, Android, IOS, Chromebook), and I wouldn't rule out purchasing an Iphone in the future nor would I hesitate to validate a friend/family members decision to purchase an Iphone????

    I read and post in Windows and Android blogs regularly too, by the way!  And I have defended IOS in said blogs from time-to-time when warranted!
    Yet this story is that Apple leads in refurbished phone sales, followed by Samsung, and together, they account for 75% of the market. It literally isn't Daniel's business to post this on an Android or Google blog. 

    Meanwhile, both Apple and Samsung had record high ASP's for the previous quarter, Apple's being $795 and Samsung's $249. That tells an entire story in itself; people do, in fact aspire to premium features, and more so, buyers of refurbished Apple iPhones are looking to enter into Apple's ecosystem, knowing that they will retain that value until the next purchase, when they can sell it, pass it down, or trade it in on a new iPhone. All those older iPhones are still part of the user base, and the users will almost certainly upgrade at some time in the future.
    All those older iPhones are still part of the user base, and the users will almost certainly upgrade at some time in the future. - Or continue to be handed down older iPhones from the same people who gave them earlier, without buying any new iPhones ever.
    Quite possibly, but they still are in a growing user base that does continue to purchase new iPhones. Even if those iPhones are retired by more hand me downs, there is still Android OS customers leaking to Apple to continue user base growth as well.

    Given the same scenario for the Android OS device market that is greatly >$200 ASP, would you expect much in the way of revenue and profits for Android OS device makers attempting to sell new phones? Probably not.

    I'm guessing that we can call that, for the most part, a commoditized market, in a race to the bottom. 
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 32 of 67
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/india-turns-down-apples-request-to-sell-refurbished-iphones-in-the-country/

    It's funny how the Indian government turned up it's nose to refurbished Apple iPhones. Well, I suppose the Indian government had a fairly good reason. Both Apple and Indian consumers could have really benefited from those less expensive iPhones.
    I have explained this earlier, I will repeat it again. Indian government DOES ALLOW Apple to sell refurbished iPhones, so long as the original sale was done within India. Indian government does NOT make up a law just for Apple. The law is SAME for ALL OEMs (including Samsung, Xiaomi, Apple etc). The last thing India needs is e-waste from foreign countries dumped in the name of refurbished phones.
    E-waste isn't likely the issue in Apple's case. 

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/hardware/government-wants-apple-to-consider-new-policy-for-local-manufacturing/articleshow/58436659.cms
    baconstang
  • Reply 33 of 67
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    BubbaTwo said:
    tmay said:

    One wonders why an avowed Samsung Galaxy 8 user on an Apple blog cares so much.
    Perhaps it's  because I used to own an Iphone (and I liked it), I help friends/family with their tech (Mac, Windows, Android, IOS, Chromebook), and I wouldn't rule out purchasing an Iphone in the future nor would I hesitate to validate a friend/family members decision to purchase an Iphone????

    I read and post in Windows and Android blogs regularly too, by the way!  And I have defended IOS in said blogs from time-to-time when warranted!
    Yet this story is that Apple leads in refurbished phone sales, followed by Samsung, and together, they account for 75% of the market. It literally isn't Daniel's business to post this on an Android or Google blog. 

    Meanwhile, both Apple and Samsung had record high ASP's for the previous quarter, Apple's being $795 and Samsung's $249. That tells an entire story in itself; people do, in fact aspire to premium features, and more so, buyers of refurbished Apple iPhones are looking to enter into Apple's ecosystem, knowing that they will retain that value until the next purchase, when they can sell it, pass it down, or trade it in on a new iPhone. All those older iPhones are still part of the user base, and the users will almost certainly upgrade at some time in the future.
    All those older iPhones are still part of the user base, and the users will almost certainly upgrade at some time in the future. - Or continue to be handed down older iPhones from the same people who gave them earlier, without buying any new iPhones ever.
    Quite possibly, but they still are in a growing user base that does continue to purchase new iPhones.

    Given the same scenario for the Android OS device market that is greatly >$200 ASP, would you expect much in the way of revenue and profits for Android OS device makers attempting to sell new phones?

    I'm guessing that we can call that, for the most part, a commoditization market, in a race to the bottom. 
    I guess you meant <$200 ASP. Agreed with your point, it is a commoditization market, in a race to the bottom. Many of them who are not making any profits will go out of business, sooner rather than later. Even Sony and LG (who are subsidizing their smartphone department through other profitable businesses) cannot continue in the same way as they are doing currently. The sooner they find a way to be profitable in selling smartphones (like Samsung has managed to do), they can stay in the business in long term (like Dell/Lenovo/HP are in PC business now). 5 to 10 years down the line - only 5 to 6 companies (Apple & Samsung for sure, Huawei & Xioami most likely, and BBK, Lenovo, HMD quite possibly) will be there in smartphone business in a meaningful way. Rest will fade away.
  • Reply 34 of 67
    tmay said:
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/india-turns-down-apples-request-to-sell-refurbished-iphones-in-the-country/

    It's funny how the Indian government turned up it's nose to refurbished Apple iPhones. Well, I suppose the Indian government had a fairly good reason. Both Apple and Indian consumers could have really benefited from those less expensive iPhones.
    I have explained this earlier, I will repeat it again. Indian government DOES ALLOW Apple to sell refurbished iPhones, so long as the original sale was done within India. Indian government does NOT make up a law just for Apple. The law is SAME for ALL OEMs (including Samsung, Xiaomi, Apple etc). The last thing India needs is e-waste from foreign countries dumped in the name of refurbished phones.
    E-waste isn't likely the issue in Apple's case. 

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/hardware/government-wants-apple-to-consider-new-policy-for-local-manufacturing/articleshow/58436659.cms
    Local manufacturing is an issue for tax concessions that Apple is asking for. E-waste is the issue for importing of refurbished phones (not just Apple, as I mentioned earlier) even though it is not explicitly mentioned anywhere. It is just mentioned as a policy decision by Indian government for ALL OEMs, without any detailed explanation about why such a policy was put in place. The main demand from Apple to indian government WAS/IS Tax concessions. Importing of refurbished phones (originally sold in other countries) is a secondary request (not the most important one).
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 35 of 67
    racerhomie3racerhomie3 Posts: 1,149member
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/india-turns-down-apples-request-to-sell-refurbished-iphones-in-the-country/

    It's funny how the Indian government turned up it's nose to refurbished Apple iPhones. Well, I suppose the Indian government had a fairly good reason. Both Apple and Indian consumers could have really benefited from those less expensive iPhones.
    I have explained this earlier, I will repeat it again. Indian government DOES ALLOW Apple to sell refurbished iPhones, so long as the original sale was done within India. Indian government does NOT make up a law just for Apple. The law is SAME for ALL OEMs (including Samsung, Xiaomi, Apple etc). The last thing India needs is e-waste from foreign countries dumped in the name of refurbished phones.
    Most phones sold in India are already ewaste & trash.Even a iPhone 2G from 2007 functions perfectly.
  • Reply 36 of 67
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,833member
    tmay said:
    http://www.zdnet.com/article/india-turns-down-apples-request-to-sell-refurbished-iphones-in-the-country/

    It's funny how the Indian government turned up it's nose to refurbished Apple iPhones. Well, I suppose the Indian government had a fairly good reason. Both Apple and Indian consumers could have really benefited from those less expensive iPhones.
    I have explained this earlier, I will repeat it again. Indian government DOES ALLOW Apple to sell refurbished iPhones, so long as the original sale was done within India. Indian government does NOT make up a law just for Apple. The law is SAME for ALL OEMs (including Samsung, Xiaomi, Apple etc). The last thing India needs is e-waste from foreign countries dumped in the name of refurbished phones.
    E-waste isn't likely the issue in Apple's case. 

    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/hardware/government-wants-apple-to-consider-new-policy-for-local-manufacturing/articleshow/58436659.cms
    Local manufacturing is an issue for tax concessions that Apple is asking for. E-waste is the issue for importing of refurbished phones (not just Apple, as I mentioned earlier) even though it is not explicitly mentioned anywhere. The main demand from Apple to indian government was/is Tax concessions. Importing of refurbished phones (originally sold in other countries) is a secondary request (not the most important one).
    Presumably, Apple's refurbished iPhones would be working units, supported by Apple with warranties and updates, so any e-waste issue should apply equally to any product imported into the country, or produced locally. Apple wants tax concessions, India wants increasing local content; that's the ongoing negotiation, and as far as I know, iPhone SE's are already being manufactured in India, since last May, I think.
  • Reply 37 of 67
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,271member
    cropr said:
    The fastest growing segment in global smartphones isn't Google's vision for super-cheap, simple Android phones.
    The moment you buy a decent Android device (>$250), you don't have any performance issues, as the article might suggest.  A Nexus 5X I bought in 2015 still feels very snappy, while the iPhone 6 I bought around the same time is much slower (throttling issue) 

    Does that 2015 android get new OS version upgrades? 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 38 of 67
    GG1GG1 Posts: 265member
    Actually that really doesnt help Apple one bit... Selling those "second hand" units as new sales is what Apple would need... But they wanted to hold on to only the hight end and give away the middle range market to Samsung (android) phones. Those are a lot of lost sales for Apple. Now there are people who wouldnt be caught dead buying used hardware, so those really dont have any knowledge of Apple products and they are the people that mostly talk shit about Apple. Maybe cause they might have wanted to try but didnt see the value...
    I see those second hand units as new units entering the Apple ecosystem (services).
    watto_cobrabaconstang
  • Reply 39 of 67
    Cesar Battistini MazieroCesar Battistini Maziero Posts: 167unconfirmed, member
    entropys said:
    Seeing as android makers regularly discount, why get a refurb?
    Because it's an iPhone, people want iPhones.
    watto_cobrabaconstang
  • Reply 40 of 67
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,901member
    cropr said:
    The fastest growing segment in global smartphones isn't Google's vision for super-cheap, simple Android phones.
    The moment you buy a decent Android device (>$250), you don't have any performance issues, as the article might suggest.  A Nexus 5X I bought in 2015 still feels very snappy, while the iPhone 6 I bought around the same time is much slower (throttling issue) 

    Does that 2015 android get new OS version upgrades? 
    They still get regular monthly security updates. They still get regular Google core services updates. They will not get further full operating system updates altho that's not necessarily a bad thing from a pure performance perspective IMHO. 
    muthuk_vanalingam
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