Apple's MacBook sales growth may outpace both iPhone and iPad this year

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 55
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 6,086member
    danvm said:
    sflocal said:
    That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...
    Stop making stuff up.  I owned those MacBooks, and I love the keyboard of my late-2017 MBP.  Keyboards were fine in all of those, including the new ones.

    I'm a developer, using the function keys often, and the Touch Bar does not get in the way.  

    Jeez... some people just have a chip on their shoulder.
    Maybe the keyboard is fine for you, but I haven't seen such a negative feedback from Macbooks / MacBook Pro's keyboards before.  I never heard people criticizing Apple trackpads, since they are excellent, but the experience with keyboards wasn't that positive.  I don't like the tactile feedback in my MBP 2017.  Like I posted before, IMO, Thinkpads are the best.  
    People being vocal in tech forums do not represent the public as a whole.  If the keyboards were really as bad as tech-heads say they are, Apple would not be selling as many MacBooks (and MBP's)  as they are.  Obviously, a majority of people don't have a problem with them.  There is no such thing as a 100% satisfaction rate in any product, it's just that the Internet loves to make small issues seem bigger than they really are.

    I have yet to meet anyone else in my very large circle of Macbook-owning friends complain about the keyboard.  Sure, that doesn't mean that everyone doesn't have a problem, but it also doesn't mean that everyone has a problem with it too.

    For me, using the new keyboard tech took a day or two of getting used to it.  Now, it's a non-issue, not that it ever really was.

    My original statement still stands.
    StrangeDayswatto_cobrawilliamlondon
  • Reply 22 of 55
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,126member
    With all due respect to Steve Jobs, die, post-PC era!


    Somehow I don’t see that poster being made today.
    On the other hand, as they say, any publicity is good publicity, and this ad would definitely annoy the right kind of people.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 23 of 55
    urashid said:
    Update the MacBook with a second port - any port!! - and I will buy a maxed-out one this year for sure. If not, I will wait patiently to see what's in store for 2019.
    I hear ya!  But really, the Macbook is Apple's solution for iPad-Runs-MacOS-Apps.
    One data+charging port (along with the headphone port).  Charge overnight, use all day.  Keyboard included.
    I understand what you're saying. And I still want a second port or I'm not buying :-)
  • Reply 24 of 55
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,778member
    That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...
    So sayeth the online techie echo chamber of pundits, haters, and trolls...but like usual they don't seem to represent normal people. I myself as a pro dev oddly have no dongle hell as I don't use many specialty items and use my rMBP for coding via wifi. Per Apple's data most of their pros seem to be developers based on Xcode installs. 
    watto_cobrawilliamlondon
  • Reply 25 of 55
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,778member

    With all due respect to Steve Jobs, die, post-PC era!


    Youre confused. "Post" just means "after", it does not mean "replacement". Most people are fine with cars and don't require trucks. My folks for example switched to iPads and don't need their desktops any longer. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 55
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,778member

    slurpy said:
    danvm said:
    slurpy said:
    That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...
    95% of people in the real world have zero problems with the keyboard, touchbar, "dongle-hell", etc. It's a small, viciously vocal group on the internet that sets this narrative, backed by the anti-Apple cottage industry that makes a killing from anti-Apple articles, Youtube videos, etc. The new MBPs are fantastic, forward looking machines, easily the best I've ever owned. Keyboard takes a bit of getting used to, but I can now type FASTER, with less effort, and more quietly- I'd never go back. Also, this "dongle-hell" is a hyper-sensationalized, hilariously overblown narrative. Most people will at MOST need a $10 usb-C to usb-A adapter. Funny how I see tons and tons of the new MB/MBPs out in the wild, and literally zero "dongles. 

    But either way, continue with the "new Apple hardware is a disaster" narrative. It's not like it's an original thought- it's lazy, and people like you have been claiming this for the past couple decades with every new Mac update. 

    I don't understand the "getting used to".  Why do you need to get used to a good keyboard?  I didn't need to get used to Thinkpad keyboards or Apple trackpads.  They are good since the first day you work on them.  Maybe they aren't that good at all, and you just get used to it.



    What an absolutely ridiculous, short-sighted mentality. So, nothing can ever change, because we should never have to adapt or adjust to anything? I guess Apple should have NEVER introduced a touchscreen keyboard on the iPhone (or a million other things) as that required adjustment, and are therefore "not good"? I guess you missed the very next time of my post, where I claimed that I can now type FASTER on the new keyboard than I ever could on previous keyboards? That's the good kind of adjustment- short term pain (ie. getting used to it) for long term gain. I don't miss a single aspect of the older keyboards. The new ones are superior, even if slightly different. God help us if Apple ever adopted your "its good enough and works fine" mentality instead of constantly rethinking and questioning everything. SO many Apple products and features have been initially met with "WTF is this", to "this should be the new standard" and the entire industry eventually adopting the change. 
    This guy is in my blocked list, but as a pro dev who's tried tons of keyboards & pointers over the years, of course there is a "get used to" period when using something different. There are always subtle differences to any new input device and it takes a bit of acclimation before one can really judge whether they like the change or not. 

    So many people be crazy in their need to hate.
    watto_cobrawilliamlondon
  • Reply 27 of 55
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,387member
    slurpy said:
    danvm said:
    slurpy said:
    That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...
    95% of people in the real world have zero problems with the keyboard, touchbar, "dongle-hell", etc. It's a small, viciously vocal group on the internet that sets this narrative, backed by the anti-Apple cottage industry that makes a killing from anti-Apple articles, Youtube videos, etc. The new MBPs are fantastic, forward looking machines, easily the best I've ever owned. Keyboard takes a bit of getting used to, but I can now type FASTER, with less effort, and more quietly- I'd never go back. Also, this "dongle-hell" is a hyper-sensationalized, hilariously overblown narrative. Most people will at MOST need a $10 usb-C to usb-A adapter. Funny how I see tons and tons of the new MB/MBPs out in the wild, and literally zero "dongles. 

    But either way, continue with the "new Apple hardware is a disaster" narrative. It's not like it's an original thought- it's lazy, and people like you have been claiming this for the past couple decades with every new Mac update. 

    I don't understand the "getting used to".  Why do you need to get used to a good keyboard?  I didn't need to get used to Thinkpad keyboards or Apple trackpads.  They are good since the first day you work on them.  Maybe they aren't that good at all, and you just get used to it.



    What an absolutely ridiculous, short-sighted mentality. So, nothing can ever change, because we should never have to adapt or adjust to anything? I guess Apple should have NEVER introduced a touchscreen keyboard on the iPhone (or a million other things) as that required adjustment, and are therefore "not good"?
    I didn't say that we should never adapt to anything new, and the iPhone keyboard is a great example.  But you have to consider that the iPhone was much more than just a messaging device, compared, for example, to Blackberry devices.  The touchscreen keyboard had many benefits, for example, support for multiples languages.  That means that Apple sacrifice the typing experience with the touchscreen keyboard, but enhanced a lot of the iPhone functionalities.  For example, you could hide the keyboard a give the full screen to apps.  The changes in the MBP keyboard didn't gave anything new or better, at least in my opinion and many other users, based in the feedback. Again, I don't think you need to get used to something that is as good as you say.

    I guess you missed the very next time of my post, where I claimed that I can now type FASTER on the new keyboard than I ever could on previous keyboards? That's the good kind of adjustment- short term pain (ie. getting used to it) for long term gain. I don't miss a single aspect of the older keyboards. The new ones are superior, even if slightly different.

    There are people that like new keyboards, like you.  But I noticed that's not the case for most articles and comments I have read.  That's very different from the Apple trackpads, were most users had a great experience with previous and new versions. 

    God help us if Apple ever adopted your "its good enough and works fine" mentality instead of constantly rethinking and questioning everything. SO many Apple products and features have been initially met with "WTF is this", to "this should be the new standard" and the entire industry eventually adopting the change.

    I have not issue with companies making changes and improving their devices.  As an example, Apple did a great job changing the excellent trackpad in older MacBooks to the Force Touch.  People still love them.  The changes in the keyboard?  Not so much...


    williamlondon
  • Reply 28 of 55
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,387member
    sflocal said:
    danvm said:
    sflocal said:
    That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...
    Stop making stuff up.  I owned those MacBooks, and I love the keyboard of my late-2017 MBP.  Keyboards were fine in all of those, including the new ones.

    I'm a developer, using the function keys often, and the Touch Bar does not get in the way.  

    Jeez... some people just have a chip on their shoulder.
    Maybe the keyboard is fine for you, but I haven't seen such a negative feedback from Macbooks / MacBook Pro's keyboards before.  I never heard people criticizing Apple trackpads, since they are excellent, but the experience with keyboards wasn't that positive.  I don't like the tactile feedback in my MBP 2017.  Like I posted before, IMO, Thinkpads are the best.  
    People being vocal in tech forums do not represent the public as a whole.  If the keyboards were really as bad as tech-heads say they are, Apple would not be selling as many MacBooks (and MBP's)  as they are.  Obviously, a majority of people don't have a problem with them.  There is no such thing as a 100% satisfaction rate in any product, it's just that the Internet loves to make small issues seem bigger than they really are.

    Following the same line, all the praise the people in the internet made on how good Apple trackpads maybe aren't true, since "it's just that the Internet loves to make small issues seem bigger than they really are".  Right?

    I have yet to meet anyone else in my very large circle of Macbook-owning friends complain about the keyboard.  Sure, that doesn't mean that everyone doesn't have a problem, but it also doesn't mean that everyone has a problem with it too.

    For me, using the new keyboard tech took a day or two of getting used to it.  Now, it's a non-issue, not that it ever really was.

    My original statement still stands.

    There are people, like you and your friends, that may like the keyboard.  My point is why do I have to get used to something if it's that good.  I didn't get used to Apple trackpads or Thinkpad keyboards.  Both are excellent.  If you only work with recent Apple devices, you don't have any other product to compare, and you will get used to it faster.  I work with devices from many brands, and I see the difference when I type in a MBP and a Thinkpad. 


    williamlondon
  • Reply 29 of 55
    jcs2305 said:
    That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...
    You do realize they sell the MBP without the touchbar right? 

    Your posts always seem to state unsubstantiated info, or you are trashing a product or service? You're the person that claimed airplay was so horribly bad that people have been infuriated with disconnects for years? Get your home network together or something else is causing you these issues; because I don't have those same things occure with ANY device. I don't think I am the only one..  My brother remotely connects to my mac at home and airplays movies from his ipad to a 3rd gen appletv regularly with zero issues. Every once in a while you need to restart a device, but it's hardly the frustrating mess you make it out to be. Back around ios 9 this was a different story, at least for me.

    You were also the person that told another member that we would need to wait on Apple home sharing support for homepod in order to play music from your iphone or ipad on homepod if you don't have iTunes match?  What are you talking about?

    Image result for westbrook bruh

    I even commented that I was able to play FLAC files from iCloud drive via airplay to my homepod with no problems. This has nothing to do with Match or Applemusic.

    Please stop this whole Apple bashing shtick, or bashing in the form of incorrect info..it's weak and kind of silly at this point. :|








    I get dropouts using AirPlay on a AirPort Express while streaming from a Mac Mini.
  • Reply 30 of 55
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,215member
    Update the MacBook with a second port - any port!! - and I will buy a maxed-out one this year for sure. If not, I will wait patiently to see what's in store for 2019.
    You're going to be disappointed then, because I am quite sure there are zero plans to do this. Now, if they'd make that one port full USB-C 3.1gen2, I wouldn't care.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 55
    chasm said:
    Update the MacBook with a second port - any port!! - and I will buy a maxed-out one this year for sure. If not, I will wait patiently to see what's in store for 2019.
    You're going to be disappointed then, because I am quite sure there are zero plans to do this. Now, if they'd make that one port full USB-C 3.1gen2, I wouldn't care.
    Well that would be a shame however I'm sure I'll find something to eventually replace my MBA 11". I recall that the original MBA only had 1 USB2 and the latest MBA 13" has 2 USB3, a TB2 and SD card, so I can still be hopeful that they'll eventually figure out a way to add a port to the rMB. That history makes me wonder why you are "quite sure" they would never follow the same upgrade path on the rMB, but again, I'm sure there will be a model for me at some point in the future, whether it be an rMB, updated MBA or downgraded MBPro.
  • Reply 32 of 55
    chasmchasm Posts: 3,215member
    I recall that the original MBA only had 1 USB2 and the latest MBA 13" has 2 USB3, a TB2 and SD card, so I can still be hopeful that they'll eventually figure out a way to add a port to the rMB. That history makes me wonder why you are "quite sure" they would never follow the same upgrade path on the rMB, but again, I'm sure there will be a model for me at some point in the future, whether it be an rMB, updated MBA or downgraded MBPro.
    The 2008 MBA to which you refer is actually Apple's first attempt at a MacBook, but it was far too early. You are correct that they added ports in the 2010 revision (and have barely changed it since -- the machine is essentially unchanged since 2012 except for the 2015 upgrade from TB1 to TB2). The reason I'm "quite sure" is that since 2012 the company has clearly moved in the opposite direction -- removing ports or consolidating ports wherever possible, particularly when the selling point of the device is thinness. USB-C and TB3 now sharing the same form factor makes for, if you will, the "one ring" of connectivity, especially when coupled with true "all-day" battery life (a concept the later MBAs pioneered).

    The reason people buy MacBooks is that they don't even need to bring a charger with them, meaning the one port is actually quite sufficient (and exceptionally versatile, even at its current hobbled speed) for nearly anything they might want to do with it. That said, I almost never see anyone in cafes, airports, libraries, and coffeeshops actually doing *anything* with the port, since the machine is a complete unit that runs all day as-is. The headphone jack on the thing gets far more attention than the UBS-C port out in the field, at least from what I've seen.
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 33 of 55
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    danvm said:

    Following the same line, all the praise the people in the internet made on how good Apple trackpads maybe aren't true, since "it's just that the Internet loves to make small issues seem bigger than they really are".  Right?

    Wrong. 

    It is human nature for the 1% to whine endlessly on the internet when something isn’t working for them. They then go on to attract haters from other platforms, and people who just line to join in because they’re a little bit sad. Meanwhile, the 99% who don’t have a problem with the keyboard will just carry on using it without saying anything. 

    When I first got my MacBook Pro, I thought the keyboard was too shallow. A few days later, my typing speed had increased beyond what it was on lesser keyboards, and the pains I used to get in my fingers and wrist had gone too. Mrs Rayz2016 also commmented that my keyboard was much quieter because I wasn’t hitting the keys so hard. 

    So what happened? Well, I think I changed my typing style. I no longer had to bash the keys, so now I just glide across them, tapping lightly. I can now crank out book pages in less time and with fewer mistakes. More importantly, the keyboard is less of a strain on my hands and wrists, and less of an annoyance for Mrs Rayz2016 when I’m working in the kitchen. 

    If you’re a keyboard thumper, this keyboard is not for you. 
    If you cannot adapt then Apple kit is not for you. 
    If you believe that you shouldn’t have to adapt then I feel sorry for you. 

    Apple’s next generation of customers are used to typing on flat surfaces with little or no tactile feedback. Apple is adapting for them, not you. 



    edited March 2018 williamlondontht
  • Reply 34 of 55
    chasm said:
    I recall that the original MBA only had 1 USB2 and the latest MBA 13" has 2 USB3, a TB2 and SD card, so I can still be hopeful that they'll eventually figure out a way to add a port to the rMB. That history makes me wonder why you are "quite sure" they would never follow the same upgrade path on the rMB, but again, I'm sure there will be a model for me at some point in the future, whether it be an rMB, updated MBA or downgraded MBPro.
    The 2008 MBA to which you refer is actually Apple's first attempt at a MacBook, but it was far too early. You are correct that they added ports in the 2010 revision (and have barely changed it since -- the machine is essentially unchanged since 2012 except for the 2015 upgrade from TB1 to TB2). The reason I'm "quite sure" is that since 2012 the company has clearly moved in the opposite direction -- removing ports or consolidating ports wherever possible, particularly when the selling point of the device is thinness. USB-C and TB3 now sharing the same form factor makes for, if you will, the "one ring" of connectivity, especially when coupled with true "all-day" battery life (a concept the later MBAs pioneered).

    The reason people buy MacBooks is that they don't even need to bring a charger with them, meaning the one port is actually quite sufficient (and exceptionally versatile, even at its current hobbled speed) for nearly anything they might want to do with it. That said, I almost never see anyone in cafes, airports, libraries, and coffeeshops actually doing *anything* with the port, since the machine is a complete unit that runs all day as-is. The headphone jack on the thing gets far more attention than the UBS-C port out in the field, at least from what I've seen.
    Alright, you win. It's not for me and won't ever be.
  • Reply 35 of 55
    hentaiboyhentaiboy Posts: 1,252member
    Wasn’t iPad supposed to spell death for the PC?
    edited March 2018
  • Reply 36 of 55
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    danvm said:
    slurpy said:
    That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...
    95% of people in the real world have zero problems with the keyboard, touchbar, "dongle-hell", etc. It's a small, viciously vocal group on the internet that sets this narrative, backed by the anti-Apple cottage industry that makes a killing from anti-Apple articles, Youtube videos, etc. The new MBPs are fantastic, forward looking machines, easily the best I've ever owned. Keyboard takes a bit of getting used to, but I can now type FASTER, with less effort, and more quietly- I'd never go back. Also, this "dongle-hell" is a hyper-sensationalized, hilariously overblown narrative. Most people will at MOST need a $10 usb-C to usb-A adapter. Funny how I see tons and tons of the new MB/MBPs out in the wild, and literally zero "dongles. 

    But either way, continue with the "new Apple hardware is a disaster" narrative. It's not like it's an original thought- it's lazy, and people like you have been claiming this for the past couple decades with every new Mac update. 
    Personally I don't like the feedback in my MBP 2017.  In my line of work I have to work with different brand of notebooks, and Thinkpad's are still the best without question.  In quality, I have seen many posts of people with keyboards issues.  And many of those comments didn't came from anti-Apple people,

    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/10/17/johnston-macbook-keyboard

    Again, Lenovo makes durable keyboards, and even they are spill resistant. 



    I don't understand the "getting used to".  Why do you need to get used to a good keyboard?  I didn't need to get used to Thinkpad keyboards or Apple trackpads.  They are good since the first day you work on them.  Maybe they aren't that good at all, and you just get used to it.


    Beyond any shadow of a doubt Lenovo keyboards are better than Apple's - For Me!
    Apple's keyboards and the MacBooks they sit on are designed to be powerful yet ultra light, thin and portable.  So, the keyboard has to be extremely light and, particularly, thin.

    Very simply Lenovo ThinkPads (at least the the T and W series) did not go that route.  They are heavier and thicker -- which produces obvious disadvantages in portability but enables other advantages such as "better" keyboards.

    For me, I think comparing a T series Lenovo ThinkPad to an Apple MacBook (of any variety) is like comparing an SUV to a sports car.  Which is "better" depends on your needs and preferences...

    For myself, I simply don't need a highly portable laptop.  And, the resulting comprises required make it relatively unappealing to me.  I would rather have outstanding durability, cooling and a keyboard with outstanding feel and travel.  But, if/when my needs change that assessment will change.   While I love my Thinkpads, I would hate to have to lug them to school or the office everyday...  Hell, it's a chore just to lug it into the living room.


    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 37 of 55
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    I think the MacBook line has every possibility of outgrowing Apple's other lines (at least on a percentage basis) for two reasons:
    1)  Having relatively small volume makes a large percentage increases in growth much easier...  An increase of a couple million is a big jump for the MacBook line but wouldn't budge the needle in the iPhone line.

    2)  Apple has kept its MacBook line on a tight leash:   They are all thin, light and expensive.   In their other lines (iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch) Apple has demonstrated a willingness to open up the product lines to cheaper, less technologically advanced products. 

    In addition, Apple has the opportunity to open up its iPad lines as a laptop replacement by adding a cursor.  And/Or, they could add a removable touch screen to the Mac...

    The Mac line has been living confined in a cage for almost a decade.   It's time Apple set the Mac free!
    #FreeTheMac!

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 38 of 55
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,387member
    Rayz2016 said:
    danvm said:

    Following the same line, all the praise the people in the internet made on how good Apple trackpads maybe aren't true, since "it's just that the Internet loves to make small issues seem bigger than they really are".  Right?

    Wrong. 

    It is human nature for the 1% to whine endlessly on the internet when something isn’t working for them. They then go on to attract haters from other platforms, and people who just line to join in because they’re a little bit sad. Meanwhile, the 99% who don’t have a problem with the keyboard will just carry on using it without saying anything. 




    When you search in the internet and articles, there is a long list of stories of how good Apple trackpads are, even the 201-2017 models that are different from 2015 and previous models.  Same for screen quality.  The keyboard is a different story in a negative way, in tactile feedback and quality.  Even some Apple bloggers made comments about it,

    https://sixcolors.com/link/2017/10/theres-no-i-in-keyboard/
    https://marco.org/2017/11/24/fixing-the-macbook-pro

    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/10/17/johnston-macbook-keyboard

    Are they in the 1% you mention before?

    When I first got my MacBook Pro, I thought the keyboard was too shallow. A few days later, my typing speed had increased beyond what it was on lesser keyboards, and the pains I used to get in my fingers and wrist had gone too. Mrs Rayz2016 also commmented that my keyboard was much quieter because I wasn’t hitting the keys so hard. 

    So what happened? Well, I think I changed my typing style. I no longer had to bash the keys, so now I just glide across them, tapping lightly. I can now crank out book pages in less time and with fewer mistakes. More importantly, the keyboard is less of a strain on my hands and wrists, and less of an annoyance for Mrs Rayz2016 when I’m working in the kitchen. 

    If you’re a keyboard thumper, this keyboard is not for you. 
    If you cannot adapt then Apple kit is not for you. 
    If you believe that you shouldn’t have to adapt then I feel sorry for you. 

    Apple’s next generation of customers are used to typing on flat surfaces with little or no tactile feedback. Apple is adapting for them, not you.
    I have a Surface Pro 4, and already get used to the keyboard.  If had to use my MBP 2017 everyday, I'll adapt to it too.  Does it means that it's a good keyboard?  Not at all.  When I work with Thinkpads, I notice the difference, and you can read of in many articles in the internet.  If you only work with Macbooks, definitively you'll adapt to it's keyboard, but that doesn't means it's the best in the market.
  • Reply 39 of 55
    danvmdanvm Posts: 1,387member
    danvm said:
    slurpy said:
    That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...
    95% of people in the real world have zero problems with the keyboard, touchbar, "dongle-hell", etc. It's a small, viciously vocal group on the internet that sets this narrative, backed by the anti-Apple cottage industry that makes a killing from anti-Apple articles, Youtube videos, etc. The new MBPs are fantastic, forward looking machines, easily the best I've ever owned. Keyboard takes a bit of getting used to, but I can now type FASTER, with less effort, and more quietly- I'd never go back. Also, this "dongle-hell" is a hyper-sensationalized, hilariously overblown narrative. Most people will at MOST need a $10 usb-C to usb-A adapter. Funny how I see tons and tons of the new MB/MBPs out in the wild, and literally zero "dongles. 

    But either way, continue with the "new Apple hardware is a disaster" narrative. It's not like it's an original thought- it's lazy, and people like you have been claiming this for the past couple decades with every new Mac update. 
    Personally I don't like the feedback in my MBP 2017.  In my line of work I have to work with different brand of notebooks, and Thinkpad's are still the best without question.  In quality, I have seen many posts of people with keyboards issues.  And many of those comments didn't came from anti-Apple people,

    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/10/17/johnston-macbook-keyboard

    Again, Lenovo makes durable keyboards, and even they are spill resistant. 



    I don't understand the "getting used to".  Why do you need to get used to a good keyboard?  I didn't need to get used to Thinkpad keyboards or Apple trackpads.  They are good since the first day you work on them.  Maybe they aren't that good at all, and you just get used to it.


    Beyond any shadow of a doubt Lenovo keyboards are better than Apple's - For Me!
    Apple's keyboards and the MacBooks they sit on are designed to be powerful yet ultra light, thin and portable.  So, the keyboard has to be extremely light and, particularly, thin.

    Very simply Lenovo ThinkPads (at least the the T and W series) did not go that route.  They are heavier and thicker -- which produces obvious disadvantages in portability but enables other advantages such as "better" keyboards.

    For me, I think comparing a T series Lenovo ThinkPad to an Apple MacBook (of any variety) is like comparing an SUV to a sports car.  Which is "better" depends on your needs and preferences...

    For myself, I simply don't need a highly portable laptop.  And, the resulting comprises required make it relatively unappealing to me.  I would rather have outstanding durability, cooling and a keyboard with outstanding feel and travel.  But, if/when my needs change that assessment will change.   While I love my Thinkpads, I would hate to have to lug them to school or the office everyday...  Hell, it's a chore just to lug it into the living room.


    You should try the T480s or the X1 Carbon.  They are very thin, didn't sacrifice keyboard quality and are spill resistant.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 40 of 55
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 2,680member
    danvm said:
    danvm said:
    slurpy said:
    That's quite a bold statement given it's going to take something major for the 2015 MBP and even more for the 2012 Air users to upgrade given how bad the problems with the keyboards are, and waste of money touch bar, and dongle hell, and and and...
    95% of people in the real world have zero problems with the keyboard, touchbar, "dongle-hell", etc. It's a small, viciously vocal group on the internet that sets this narrative, backed by the anti-Apple cottage industry that makes a killing from anti-Apple articles, Youtube videos, etc. The new MBPs are fantastic, forward looking machines, easily the best I've ever owned. Keyboard takes a bit of getting used to, but I can now type FASTER, with less effort, and more quietly- I'd never go back. Also, this "dongle-hell" is a hyper-sensationalized, hilariously overblown narrative. Most people will at MOST need a $10 usb-C to usb-A adapter. Funny how I see tons and tons of the new MB/MBPs out in the wild, and literally zero "dongles. 

    But either way, continue with the "new Apple hardware is a disaster" narrative. It's not like it's an original thought- it's lazy, and people like you have been claiming this for the past couple decades with every new Mac update. 
    Personally I don't like the feedback in my MBP 2017.  In my line of work I have to work with different brand of notebooks, and Thinkpad's are still the best without question.  In quality, I have seen many posts of people with keyboards issues.  And many of those comments didn't came from anti-Apple people,

    https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/10/17/johnston-macbook-keyboard

    Again, Lenovo makes durable keyboards, and even they are spill resistant. 



    I don't understand the "getting used to".  Why do you need to get used to a good keyboard?  I didn't need to get used to Thinkpad keyboards or Apple trackpads.  They are good since the first day you work on them.  Maybe they aren't that good at all, and you just get used to it.


    Beyond any shadow of a doubt Lenovo keyboards are better than Apple's - For Me!
    Apple's keyboards and the MacBooks they sit on are designed to be powerful yet ultra light, thin and portable.  So, the keyboard has to be extremely light and, particularly, thin.

    Very simply Lenovo ThinkPads (at least the the T and W series) did not go that route.  They are heavier and thicker -- which produces obvious disadvantages in portability but enables other advantages such as "better" keyboards.

    For me, I think comparing a T series Lenovo ThinkPad to an Apple MacBook (of any variety) is like comparing an SUV to a sports car.  Which is "better" depends on your needs and preferences...

    For myself, I simply don't need a highly portable laptop.  And, the resulting comprises required make it relatively unappealing to me.  I would rather have outstanding durability, cooling and a keyboard with outstanding feel and travel.  But, if/when my needs change that assessment will change.   While I love my Thinkpads, I would hate to have to lug them to school or the office everyday...  Hell, it's a chore just to lug it into the living room.


    You should try the T480s or the X1 Carbon.  They are very thin, didn't sacrifice keyboard quality and are spill resistant.
    "For myself, I simply don't need a highly portable laptop.  And, the resulting comprises required make it relatively unappealing to me.  I would rather have outstanding durability, cooling and a keyboard with outstanding feel and travel.  But, if/when my needs change that assessment will change.   While I love my Thinkpads, I would hate to have to lug them to school or the office everyday...  Hell, it's a chore just to lug it into the living room."

    Sounds to me you may be better off with a desktop.  
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